ksig121

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to say, this is the most disturbing thread that I have come across in my two or so years participating on this board. There are folks whose opinions I respect posting in such a way that I really need to rethink my judgement.

I think that the question that we need to ask ourselves is, "Where is all of this poisonous rhetoric coming from?" I think that as a city, we made big strides in the late 70's and early 80's in race relations. It seems now that we are almost to the point where all of that progress has been pissed away. Iit is impossible to have an honest conversation about anything having to do with race without it exploding into lowest-common-denominator, closed-minded crap.

What kills me is that there are some good points of discussion that are brought up, but they are either ignored or upstaged by some inflammatory statement that totally derails productive debate. Until people drop their assumptions and misconceptions about folks of other races and actually LISTEN to and UNDERSTAND them, we are never gonna make the progress that we need to make to truly become the "world-class city" that all of you think that we should be. If something as small as the naming of a street ignites this type of vitriol, how are we gonna hammer out the really important issues?

I'm off my soap box. I know that what I type here won't necessarily make a difference, but I have to try. I care too much about this town to let it go down without a fight.

Lakewooder

Don't misinterprete my flip comments, I am for naming more streets, schools, plazas etc. for people who aren't straight white males. I don't see any need to change streets which are already named for someone else or those which reflect the particular history of an area, i.e. Industrial and Live Oak.

You would probably ask what is left and you would be right.

I am a fan of Mr. Bentzen and I admire his teaching. I am for educating illegal aliens and children of illegal aliens born here. My recent birthday party raised funds for scholarships for kids in that position.

Where it rubs me the wrong way is when there is no regard for the history or natives of Dallas. Also I don't like the fact that it was presented that Ross Avenue was the site of the protest march of illegal aliens carrying flags of the countries where they are citizens.

I don't see a need to honor Chavez when he is already honored in two or more places in Dallas. We have plenty of local hispanics worth honoring and remembering. TG mentioned Anita Martinez, who was the first hispanic councilwoman and one of the first women to serve on city council. Also Santos Rodriguez, though more controversial (most people feel it was just a nutty policeman who shot him, not symptomatic of some general hatred by anglos against hispanics) would be a good candidate.

There are many, many more. I also suggested Mariano Martinez, who is a friend of mine.

Lakewooder

I don't know if y'all saw this:

Darwin Payne: We can't roll over Ross Avenue's glorious past

12:00 AM CDT on Saturday, July 26, 2008
Darwin Payne, professor emeritus of communications at SMU, has written extensively about Dallas. His e-mail address is dpayne@smu.edu.

Before we toss aside Ross Avenue's name for César Chávez, as some have suggested, let's review.

On city maps since the 1860s, Ross Avenue has hosted some of Dallas' most spectacular houses, intriguing citizens and influential institutions. Three prominent religious institutions are still there – the striking Cathedral Guadalupe, cornerstone laid in 1898; First United Methodist Church, there since 1926; and St. Matthews Episcopal Cathedral, at the site of St. Mary's College for women, founded in 1889.

And yes, Ross Avenue has seen fast food outlets, auto parts stores, furniture stores and used-car lots – remember Goss on Ross the Tradin' Hoss? Better known is Oriental Rug Cleaning Co., founded in 1911.

Two of the nation's most famous women lived on Ross Avenue – Lady Bird Johnson and novelist Katherine Anne Porter. Only a few know that on this street was born the first Texan to become a justice of the U.S. Supreme Court – Tom Clark.

From 1928 to 1930, Lady Bird – then Claudia Alta Taylor – was a resident student at St. Mary's College. When it closed in 1930, she transferred to the University of Texas in Austin. St. Mary's chapel remains today as St. Matthews Episcopal Cathedral.

Katherine Anne Porter – then Katherine Koontz – came in 1914 and moved into a rooming house at 1520 Ross, escaping a youthful marriage. During her several years here, she also lived in a rooming house at 2220 Ross. In Dallas she began using the name with which she became so famous. She contracted tuberculosis and was treated at the county's charity facility near Ross and Greenville.

A heyday for Ross, Dallas' "Fifth Avenue," was between approximately 1885 and 1920, when palatial homes lined the street.

Here lived families with names still familiar: Caruth, Munger, Coke, Flippen, Belo, Trezevant, Padgitt, Crawford, Atwell, Prather, Tennison and others. At least two of these houses remain today.

The beautiful Belo Mansion, built in about 1890 by A.H. Belo, today is headquarters for the Dallas Bar Association. When the building served as a funeral home, an estimated 30,000 people formed lines to view the body of Clyde Barrow, in Dallas for burial after he was shot and killed in Louisiana in 1934.

The second remaining home is a stately building further east, constructed in 1906 by banker and manufacturer Charles H. Alexander. Today's occupant, the Dallas Women's Forum, purchased it in 1930.

In 1897, attorney William H. Clark bought his house on Ross in the same year he became president of the State Bar of Texas. Mr. Clark's son, Tom, born two years later, became attorney general under President Harry S. Truman, then associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. Mr. Clark's grandson, Ramsey, well-known today but rarely identified as a Dallas native, also served as attorney general.

A famous lawyer residing a few doors away was W.L. Crawford, known as the foremost trial lawyer in Texas, if not the South. He was the first man from Dallas to be president of the State Bar of Texas. His wife built a private art gallery adjoining the house that provided a magnificent setting for glittering social occasions.

At 510 Ross lived William Hawley Atwell, appointed by President William McKinley as U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Texas. He held that office from 1898 to 1913. In 1923, President Warren G. Harding appointed him to the federal bench, where he remained into the 1950s, presiding over Dallas' first public school desegregation case.

In the West End at 705 Ross, one finds the old city jail, opened in 1908, now renovated and occupied by attorneys. Traces of the jail remain.

Dallas must preserve the name of Ross Avenue.


Darwin Payne, professor emeritus of communications at SMU, has written extensively about Dallas. His e-mail address is dpayne@smu.edu.

Lakewooder

If you go here http://catalog.dallaslibrary.org/polaris/ and search "Ross Avenue" you will find some very interesting pictures.

ajackmeh16

^ And I hereby announce the naming of Ross Ave. to Cesar Chavez over. It's over guys. Let's hope they can suck it up and move on to more important issues.

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Matt777

You are very right, I have thought the same thing. Some people who I think are really intelligent, informing, contributing people have posted words that seem like anger just spouted out with no thought at all. When I first heard of the street renaming, I didn't think it would be a huge issue, especially since Ross was not even considered at first, it was Industrial, which I find hard to believe people hold attachment to. I was really wrong, the reaction has been eye-opening.



I don't want to start another firefight, but what do any of THESE events have to do with the Ross Brothers? You cannot argue that Cesar Chavez had no effect on the history of Ross St (which is partially true), when other than the original name of the street, the Ross brothers did not affect its history either. Am I wrong here, if anyone can provide some more info on the Ross brothers that would be great.

Great history has happened on Ross Ave. Does changing the name to honor a man who a large percentage of Dallas, of all races, respect erase that history?

warlock55

I think the only solution now is to not rename either street. No one can complain about returning to the status quo, since no one was originally upset about it. The only people who would look stupid are the city staff and city council, and they deserve it and are used to it by now.

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bbetzen

Matt,
The Ross brothers, as I understand it, were major real estate developers along Ross. One brother never married and the other had at least one daughter, but I have been unable to locate any grand or great grand children.
It is a loss to change such a name. The gain will be a historical marker that will provide more details about the accurate history of the Ross name, and that marker will be on the most walked intersection on Ross so the most people possible are able to read it.
The strange thing that happened in this research is that the intersection that is most walked is the one in the West End on North Market. Originally that was not part of Ross but was a street called Carondolet, named before 1856 for a very popular and well loved Spanish Governor for Louisana and West Florida. Sometime after 1930 and before 1938 the name disappeared from Dallas maps and Ross Avenue was extended south west to replace Carondolet. Should the Carondolet name also be on the historical marker? It makes it obvious that the loss of a name on a street has certainly happened before. With the historical marker planned, more people will know more about the Ross brothers than ever before. Plans about the Carondolet name have to come from the City Council.

tstein7240

bbetzen...

A serious question (and I hope my writing tone doesn't come across as sarcastic)... but what other leadership roles do you and your group take with the hispanic community?

It seems like an inordinate amount of political time and goodwill is being used on changing a street name, while there are more important issues in the hispanic community that could use strong leadership - most importantly, IMHO, the obsense high school dropout rate of Hispanic.

This goal you have (and I mentioned before, your "posting style" of passive agreesive attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with you) doesn't really solve any of the true issues. While symbolic, it is would silly to make any assumption that chaning a street name has any effect on actually helping a grou, and IMO actually creates a mentality of "us vs. them"... instead of gather multi-cultural support for critical issues like education.

Mballar

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...n1.4dbeb9e.html

Chávez street renaming in Dallas fertile with opinions

12:06 PM CDT on Saturday, August 2, 2008

Judging from my e-mail and voice mail, there's no shortage of opinions – both pro and con – on the effort to rename Ross Avenue after labor leader César Chávez.

A meeting on Tuesday of the Dallas City Council's Trinity River Corridor Project committee will determine whether the idea comes up for a full City Council vote in September – just in time for Hispanic Heritage Month.

So let's review some of the positions, most of which have been reviewed by the César Chávez Task Force. The group has decided to work with the corridor project committee and come up with an alternative to renaming Industrial Boulevard after Mr. Chávez.

Alberto Ruiz, chairman of the task force, said his group reviewed numerous streets as alternatives and concluded that Ross is the best.


He's prepared for at least one outcome: "No matter which street we choose, there's going to be somebody contesting it."

Like the caller who suggested that a street in Oak Cliff, instead of one through downtown Dallas, should be named after Mr. Chávez. Some say it would be fitting because this area south of the Trinity River has a large Hispanic population.

No way, says the task force. The whole point is to name a high-profile street that is highly traveled and offers an opportunity to educate people about the famed labor leader. Many Dallas residents, including Hispanic youths, are unaware of the history and struggles of the Arizona-born founder of the United Farm Workers.

One reader, Nelson Spencer, suggested naming the Farmers Market after Mr. Chávez.

"Neither Industrial Boulevard nor Ross Avenue seems to resonate with the spirit of the revered pioneer of agricultural labor reform, to my way of thinking," Mr. Nelson wrote.

While his suggestion was a thoughtful one, the plaza at the market is already named after Mr. Chávez and represents a much smaller testament to his work than what the task force is striving for, Mr. Ruiz said.

Then, there's the comment that Mr. Chávez has no local ties.

I have to scratch my head at this one because the founder of the United Farm Workers had a way of appealing to anybody who sat at the dinner table, whether you lived in Dallas or in Los Angeles.

"He did a very fine job of connecting the workers with consumers all over the country," said Dallas County Treasurer Joe Wells, whose father was a labor and civil rights lawyer.

He remembers when Mr. Chávez marched from the Rio Grande Valley to Austin in the 1960s.

"Farmworkers were being paid about 20 to 30 cents a day back then, and more than 20,000 people turned out to march with him," Mr. Wells said. "Dallas was built by working people like him."

Mr. Wells, a Dallas native, said he supports the effort to rename Ross after Mr. Chávez for the same reason many others do, regardless of ethnicity:

"He's not only a Hispanic hero, he's a great American hero."

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warlock55

^ This looks like a case of a (political) solution looking for a problem.

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Matt777

I understand what you are saying, and yes there are many more important issues. But even small issues hit hard when it concerns an important figure in a culture's history.

I will be completing a minor in sociology this next semester, and maybe it would be best to look at it this way:

The obscene dropout rate in the Hispanic community should not be viewed with race as the determining factor. The dropouts are virtually all from families living at or below the poverty line, which a large percentage of Hispanics in Dallas are included in. The dropout rate is high among students living below the poverty line in all races, it just happens to be that a larger percentage of Hispanics live under this line than whites. Its not as if the Hispanic students who come from financially well-of families are dropping out of high school, its just that our nation is so racially divided that we look at all problems in a society using race as a determining factor, such as "a large percentage of Hispanics drop out of high school" instead of "a larger percentage of economically disadvantaged students drop out of high school." Of course this is really simplifying the viewpoint, but hopefully I got a point across.

Therefore, those issues should not be about race but about poverty. This street-renaming fiasco actually is a problem concerning a racial divide. I still have yet to see a valid argument that says otherwise, no matter how many historical events happened on that street. History in this nation also includes many things that Americans are not proud of, including hundreds of years of racial oppression, but one of the best things about America is its progressive culture, and its racial melting pot. I think that flat-out ignoring the Hispanic community wanting one, just one, street renamed in honor of a very important figure in their history goes against what makes America great.

tstein7240

To the drop out rate - it goes beyond poverty with Hispanics to also include language. I am just asking what this particular leader is doing for things more important than a street. Seems like a bunch of political capital is being used on a street name rather than something that will actually help with the future of Latinos in the city.

Regarding the street naming - I don't see this as major concern in the Hispanic community. Many of them I know (mostly middle class and upper middle) think it is a waste of time and have no clue why this group is - as one of them put it - trying to strong arm this issue with so many others out there. I would love to see a poll taken in the Hispanic community to see how many actually give a crap about this... my guess is minimal really care.

Plus, the fact that they use the march for illegal aliens as an arguement for changing Ross. Unlike the supporter in this thread - I was not in support of that march - simply because they are ILLEGALS. (and no, unilike the attempted spin on this board - I am not in favor of abusing illegals????). That is a major political issue - and the fact that these are people in this country ILLEGALLY does not make it a support point for me or many (including Hispanic members of MY FAMILY and Hispanic co-workers who are here legally)

FYI - I really, really want to make sure I don't come across as racist. From Hispanic family members to being a Big Brother to an AA child to leading diversity work shops in college. Just happens that I support items that actually benefit people (education, mentoring, scholarships, etc) than meaningless symbolic gestures that have never shown to have a societal benefit.

Matt777

Well yes, I never used the example of the illegal march either. I don't agree with that reason either. But why does their have to be a major reason a particular street is the one renamed? It should just be an important street, as Cesar Chavez is an important figure to a large percentage of the population. Its not that they want to wage a war, taking the street like it was a territory. The reason it needs to be an important street is because he is a hero to the Hispanic community, as well as low wage workers of all races.

Naming some random side street after him would be worse. It is proving that city officials don't care about their concerns. The city started this mess, by making it seem like Industrial would be named after the winner of the poll they had, which was Cesar Chavez by a humongous margin. Putting race aside, anyone would be upset after such a situation. I wish people would stop making it seem like the Hispanic community and leaders just decided to do this to create controversy. The poll started the mess, and the reaction by the Hispanic community is justified, seeing as they were completely shut out and ignored even though Cesar Chavez received 50% of the vote, I think it was.


And please, that group is only one group pushing for the change. Do not associate the entire argument with the motives and speech from that group. Forget them, they aren't important. The issue is what is important.

tstein7240

That other guy who is all in favor of this - in this thread - is the one who (a) using the march for illegals as a major piece of support (b) spin made it "if you weren't in favor of that march - you are wrong. I wasn't refering to you.

Regarding the initial "Industrial vote"... so, the city council messed up putting that to a vote. The reason the name Ceser Chavez won is most of Dallas didn't give a crap to vote. A group or two made it their cause to vote and won... BUT... to say another street name needs to be changed because the city f'ed up the other vote doesn't make sense.

But, back to my other point - why not focus on stuff that is critical to the future of the Hispanic community - rather than a polarizing street renaming. Seems like a stupid use of political capital when there are important issues that need Latino leadership.

kclapp

I still don't understand how renaming a street after Chavez is going to educate anyone about his achievments. If you want to truely educate the community, create a great monument in his honor that could explain the history surrounding Cesar Chavez. Or better yet a museum of some sort to commemorate him. But thinking that naming a street after him is going to educate anyone is just ridiculous. I didn't learn about MLk from MLK BLVD. I learned about him in school and documentaries. And no one will learn of Chavez from a street being named after him.

tstein7240

Funny... considering the supporters are saying
(1) CC will educate people
(2) Ross brothers will be more prominent with a plaque in the West End instead of a street name

How about they put a plaque in the West End for CC since that is - according to this guy - a better way to create awareness.

kclapp

I think Chavez deserves more the a plaque; something more prominent.
I should have thought of this earlier but a great example of what I'm talking about: Ross Ave is named after the Ross bros. and yet very few people know anything about them. How would naming the street after Chavez be any different.
Thus I think we should keep the street named Ross not because of their prominence (or lack there of) but because the name has become historically synonymous with that area of downtown Dallas and we should find a more effective way to celebrate CC such as a landmark of some sort in his honor.

trolleygirl

WOW! What a total straw dog. Just because Chavez turns up 9 hits on the Handbook of Texas online doesn't mean anything. One reference is about a development off State Hwy121 in southern Hidalgo County... one references holidays in Texas and Cesar Chavez day, which this year was on Monday, March 31 (and don;t get too excited about it, because we also have such obscure holidays and Sam Rayburn day and Confederates Heroes days, for example), one reference is about a guy- a Texican- named Manuel Gregorio Acosta, who painted a portrait of Chavez for Time magazine, one of your hits references Chavez's name because he was President of the United Farm Workers Union during the Economy Furniture Company strike, which was a furniture making company in Texas, Arizona and Mexico. The union organizers had the support of Chavez. Another of your hits references something similar but this one is very interesting. It's about the Texas Farm Workers Union which had a difficult time getting started in this State so in 1977, the organizers organized a march from Austin to Washington to gain an audience with President Jimmy Carter. Here is the Texas Handbook online entry in regards to Cesar Chavez: "Carter, however, possibly at the behest of UFW president César Chávez, refused to meet with the marchers." Hmmm.......

Where was I? The next Handbook online reference is to the Cesar Chavez Memorial Center in San Antonio. The next reference is to the Chicano mural movement; Chavez's name is simply included as subject matter for the artist's depictions. The next entry is bizarre and I don;t know how it even refers to Texas because it's about the "Lowrider" movement and mentions Chavez because he draws some really far inference to the lowriding movement because "by the 1940s, farmworkers found cars essential to moving quickly from job to job." The last of your nine "hits" in the Handbook is again, just a reference about the Chicano movement which references Chavez because he was the leader of the Farm Workers Union; he is mentioned specifically because there was a civil rights march in 1966 from South Texas to Austin led by a bunch of Anglo and Mexican-Americans that was inspired by the farmworkers.

Harry Hines was a candidate for governor of Texas in 1940, who came in third in a crowded Democrat primary. He was on the Texas Highway Commission from 1935 to 1941. He was instrumental in getting roads paved in our neck of the woods here in our part of the State. Interesting that I can't find much else about him in internet searches. Seems like the legacy of this man has been pretty much forgotten. I suppose his legacy is lucky that we named a street after him, otherwise his efforts to pave our dirt streets at a critical time during our growth in Dallas might as well just be relegated to the history books, never to be remembered again by the future. Isn't this sort of the point to naming streets? To honor those less than significant figures who helped shape the ways to better our growth and the lives of our future and whose lives and legacies- seemingly insignificant and irrelevant today- might just become lost in the daily routines of our own lives were it not for some street name?



My point exactly. I never even knew who Harry Hines was until I took your challenge to look him up. I find it interesting the dearth of reference material on the man. You are right, if we don't record our history we will forget it. It's also why we name streets after people, to help us remember. This has nothing to do with mistreatment minorities and the poor. You actually have just made the case (at least for me) for NOT renaming Ross to Chavez. If we can go to the Handbook of Texas online and find nine entries for Chavez, ALL of which have absolutely nothing to do with our Texas history or our local Dallas history, and yet only one reference to a man who played a large role in our growth and development, then that tells me whose names we need to be preserving on our streets in Dallas and whose names we do not need to memorialize in Dallas, or in Texas for that matter. (I would like to know why Chavez encouraged President Carter not to meet with the Texas Farm Workers Union. Doesn't seem like a man who cared too much about Texas or Texans...)

Also, as a woman, I find it puzzling that a bunch of Latino MEN would rally and protest and create a stir to rename a street after a man with no Texas ties, rather than rally around some of our strong Dallas Latino women who broke a lot of barriers. Are you trying to forget all the efforts of the women in this great city who helped to make it great? Sure we have Maria Luna park in Little Mexico but why not a whole street named after her, or a building? What about something named after Anita Martinez, who was the FIRST Latino on the Dallas City Council in 1969. A woman broke that racial barrier, not a man, and all you men want to do is memorialize some farm organizer from California before honoring the first woman the Dallas City Council, in 1969, no less! Your sexism offends me greatly and I think you need to tone it down a bit...

Columbus Civil

I'm sure he's boxed here a few times.

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AeroD

:2lol:

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Matt777

If small issues can't be tackled, the bigger issues can't be either.

One of the biggest problems is the city has not given a reason why they put the poll, and then ignored the results. There are no plans to honor Cesar Chavez in any way, plaque, monument or street. This is why it is disheartening, because the only reasons that can explain this is because there was opposition to it by the non-Hispanic community.

And again, that groups views do not represent this issue. This isn't about "educating," this is about honoring a man important to the Hispanic community. Please, please stop listening to that group, they do not represent the Hispanic community just as some users here do not represent the White community. By honoring him, and naming a street after him, he is preserved in history and becomes part of Dallas history. While no events happened in Dallas, it is completely foolish to say that he has nothing to do with Dallas. If it were not for him, it would have been much longer until low wage workers received the rights they now have. George Washington never did anything in Dallas, Abraham Lincoln didn't either, but they are still important figures that affect everyones history.

In Mexico, virtually all streets are named after important figures in history. It is something the Hispanic culture sees as an extreme honor.
Cesar Chavez was a hero to the Hispanic community, and not allowing a culture that represents such a large percentage of the population is of course going to create problems. The main group pushing for Ross Ave is that one group that needs to be ignored, they are trying to represent the entire Hispanic community and have no right to. It does not have to be Ross, but it should be some important street, building or object, I believe this would represent the feelings of the majority of the city's Hispanics, and it would be a great honor.

This issue is much more than a street-renaming, it has evolved into much more.

Industrial still does not have a new name, I don't know why they don't follow through and propose that that street be renamed, but there are many things that could honor him.

AeroD

The poll was not scientific or even a legit way of voting.

Chavez has a place at Farmers Market.



I am Hispanic, and I would rather see a street named after Cabeza de Vaca (cos' that would be cool) or Lorenzo de Zavala (he fought for Texas' Indpendence).

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tstein7240

Two things...
the "In Mexico virtually all streets are... " comment doesn't matter to me. For one reason - this is the United States. I don't care about traditions in Mexico, in Italy, in Israel (I am Jewish), in Canada etc...

What I don't get is why local hispanic leaders don't focus on naming a street in honor of a Latino who has direct ties to Dallas - or at least Texas. You mentioned Lincoln and Washington's place in history... but guess what, we don't have major streets named after them. The TRADITION IN DALLAS is to name streets after Texas or people who had an everyday effect on Dallas. Thus, a President like LBJ has a highway not George Washington. Tom Landry instead of Pete Rozelle... Julius Schepps instead of Golda Mier... etc...

I'd rather a street named for someone like Tony Dieste - one of the most influential Latinos in the marketing world and founder of an huge multicultural agency IN THE CITY OF DALLAS that works with many Fortune 500 companies. Dallas is a city built on business... most streets are named after successful businessmen. Based on this tradition, a Hispanic business leader would be a great choice - and great role model for other Latinos

Tnekster

I thought they had moved on to Webb Chapel now that they realize Ross and Industrial are off the table. At least that is what I saw on CBS 11 last night. Is Webb Chapel named after a person?

gshelton91

Not that I have anything against CC but what about all the Hispanic people who directly made great contributions to Texas --- people who died in the Alamo for example. I find i have to remind people of when Texas Independence... perhaps this could be tied into celebrating who we are at Texans and where we came from and the people who died to get us to where we are.

Also if we really must name something for CC why not name a rode that has no real name like Loop 12 or Park Lane

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Tnekster

^Ummm, good luck with Park Lane.

Matt777

I also would be ecstatic with another important Hispanic figure being honored, but Cesar Chavez was used in the poll, thats why its being supported, because those 50% of voters in the poll thought it was a possibility. Apparently, the poll was meaningless.

Ok, lets propose that another important Hispanic figure be honored with a street. Lets propose Anita Martinez, or Mariano Martinez, who are part of Dallas history.

Do you honestly think there would not be the same uproar if Ross was going to be renamed after one of those figures. That is the underlying issue.

If you think otherwise, voice your support for one of these leaders (or another) to be honored, because the city sure isn't doing anything like that, we can say all we want but the only actual proposal so far is Cesar Chavez. Unless there is a formal proposal for a Dallas Hispanic leader to be honored with a street, nothing will happen.

DFWCRE8TIVE

Dallas council panel expected to recommend 'Riverfront,' not Chavez Boulevard, for Industrial
03:17 PM CDT on Monday, August 4, 2008
By RUDOLPH BUSH / The Dallas Morning News
rbush@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...z.14199fbd.html

A key Dallas City Council committee is likely to recommend Tuesday that Industrial Boulevard be renamed Riverfront Boulevard – and not in honor of civil rights leader Cesar Chavez.

Council member Dave Neumann, who heads the council’s Trinity River Corridor Project Committee, issued two motions to colleagues Friday.

The first calls for renaming Industrial Riverfront Boulevard.

The second recommends that the City Plan Commission find another street in Dallas, possibly Ross Avenue or Field Street, to rename in honor of Mr. Chavez, the longtime farm workers’ union leader.

"After having one-on-one conversations with every member of the committee I sensed consensus behind those two (motions)," Mr. Neumann said early today.

The planned renaming of Industrial has stirred enormous controversy after a city-sponsored Internet and telephone poll resulted in overwhelming support to rename the street Cesar Chavez Boulevard.

Most members of the council’s Trinity committee opposed that, and the committee postponed a vote on its final recommendation until tomorrow morning.

Hispanic council members, including Elba Garcia, Steve Salazar, and Pauline Medrano, have pushed for some compromise that would see another street, if not Industrial, named for Mr. Chavez.

However, several Hispanic interest groups have pushed for the city to honor the results of the poll.

Mr. Neumann said he doesn’t want to see his committee recommend a specific street to rename for Mr. Chavez, saying such a recommendation would outside the committee’s purview.

tstein7240

Regarding Ross... no. That is a historial Dallas street that should remain as is...

Regarding CC and that poll. That was an ill conceived poll... and wasn't scientifically valid. A poll is never used to determine the outcome of something - just to gauge interest by the public.

(FYI, as a marketer who does consumer research on a regular basis - everything about this poll disregards typical standards that are used to create semi-accurate metrics)

To take anything from those results is naive from an analytics point-of-view. The reason that name won - more than any other reason - is simple. A majority of the city didn't realize or care about voting in a "poll"... but, a large group of Latinos rallied around it and make it their cause.

An analogy... on ESPN.com there was a poll last week asking if Brett Favre should retire/be traded/stay with the Packers. Should the Green Bay Packers have used the results from this unscientific poll to determine their course of action? No - that would be silly. BUT... the poll conducted by the City Council was as scientifically valid in their methodology as this polls is. Unfortunately, our City Council are poor communicators and didn't represent the poll accurately.

Lakewooder

Hey I have an idea - let's rename a street and piss off our rival city -- Houston St!

Oh wait, was that named for the city or the man?

Tnekster

I think Mariano Martinez is a great idea but doubt it would ever happen. Our city council is obviously not thinking about going in that direction.

trolleygirl

Do you people have me on ignore, or what? I have been saying all along.......

Matt777

WFAA reports that tomorrow the city council will announce Industrial will be renamed to Riverfront.

However, they say that there is an alternative for Cesar Chavez.

It will be tomorrow in the DMN.

Lakewooder

Commitee Votes Unanimously to Rename Ross Avenue to Cesar Chavez:

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/...ecommend-r.html

warlock55

It seems like there must be some other prominent street that has a name without much real meaning to it that could be used. Northwest Highway or South Central Expy (not the freeway, the street) come to mind.

My personal favorite to change would be the Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway, because that would set up a fight worthy of pay-per-view. Unfortunately though, I-20 isn't named that in Dallas.

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Mballar

Don't worry. Mark my words. This Dallas City Council will NEVER vote to rename Ross Avenue Ceasar Chavez.

I personally think that whatever street is renamed should be subject to the same internet/telephone survey as was implimented for Industrial Blvd. I'm quite sure that, with all of the heightened attention this issue is receiving, the results will be much different.

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cityconvo

I would like to believe that but then again I don't see any reason to rename Industrial. As you can see I have my doubts.

Lakewooder

I am against change of any kind - that's why I live in Lakewood!

Tnekster

I thought the city had some ordinace or rule against changing the name of a street if it was named after a person? What is up with that?

UrbanHope

Somewhat...I thought the same thing and checked on it.

This is from city code Sec 51-A:


(c) Historic street names.

(1) A historic street name may not be changed.

(2) A street name commemorating a person or a historic site or area is prohibited until at least two years after the death of the person to be honored or the occurrence of the event to be commemorated.

I guess that Ross isn't an "historic street?" Not sure.

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DFWCRE8TIVE

Darwin Payne: We can't roll over Ross Avenue's glorious past
12:00 AM CDT on Saturday, July 26, 2008
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...n1.4dda009.html

Darwin Payne, professor emeritus of communications at SMU, has written extensively about Dallas. His e-mail address is dpayne@smu.edu.

Before we toss aside Ross Avenue's name for César Chávez, as some have suggested, let's review.

On city maps since the 1860s, Ross Avenue has hosted some of Dallas' most spectacular houses, intriguing citizens and influential institutions. Three prominent religious institutions are still there – the striking Cathedral Guadalupe, cornerstone laid in 1898; First United Methodist Church, there since 1926; and St. Matthews Episcopal Cathedral, at the site of St. Mary's College for women, founded in 1889.

And yes, Ross Avenue has seen fast food outlets, auto parts stores, furniture stores and used-car lots – remember Goss on Ross the Tradin' Hoss? Better known is Oriental Rug Cleaning Co., founded in 1911.

Two of the nation's most famous women lived on Ross Avenue – Lady Bird Johnson and novelist Katherine Anne Porter. Only a few know that on this street was born the first Texan to become a justice of the U.S. Supreme Court – Tom Clark.

From 1928 to 1930, Lady Bird – then Claudia Alta Taylor – was a resident student at St. Mary's College. When it closed in 1930, she transferred to the University of Texas in Austin. St. Mary's chapel remains today as St. Matthews Episcopal Cathedral.

Katherine Anne Porter – then Katherine Koontz – came in 1914 and moved into a rooming house at 1520 Ross, escaping a youthful marriage. During her several years here, she also lived in a rooming house at 2220 Ross. In Dallas she began using the name with which she became so famous. She contracted tuberculosis and was treated at the county's charity facility near Ross and Greenville.

A heyday for Ross, Dallas' "Fifth Avenue," was between approximately 1885 and 1920, when palatial homes lined the street.

Here lived families with names still familiar: Caruth, Munger, Coke, Flippen, Belo, Trezevant, Padgitt, Crawford, Atwell, Prather, Tennison and others. At least two of these houses remain today.

The beautiful Belo Mansion, built in about 1890 by A.H. Belo, today is headquarters for the Dallas Bar Association. When the building served as a funeral home, an estimated 30,000 people formed lines to view the body of Clyde Barrow, in Dallas for burial after he was shot and killed in Louisiana in 1934.

The second remaining home is a stately building further east, constructed in 1906 by banker and manufacturer Charles H. Alexander. Today's occupant, the Dallas Women's Forum, purchased it in 1930.

In 1897, attorney William H. Clark bought his house on Ross in the same year he became president of the State Bar of Texas. Mr. Clark's son, Tom, born two years later, became attorney general under President Harry S. Truman, then associate justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. Mr. Clark's grandson, Ramsey, well-known today but rarely identified as a Dallas native, also served as attorney general.

A famous lawyer residing a few doors away was W.L. Crawford, known as the foremost trial lawyer in Texas, if not the South. He was the first man from Dallas to be president of the State Bar of Texas. His wife built a private art gallery adjoining the house that provided a magnificent setting for glittering social occasions.

At 510 Ross lived William Hawley Atwell, appointed by President William McKinley as U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Texas. He held that office from 1898 to 1913. In 1923, President Warren G. Harding appointed him to the federal bench, where he remained into the 1950s, presiding over Dallas' first public school desegregation case.

In the West End at 705 Ross, one finds the old city jail, opened in 1908, now renovated and occupied by attorneys. Traces of the jail remain.

Dallas must preserve the name of Ross Avenue.

Darwin Payne, professor emeritus of communications at SMU, has written extensively about Dallas. His e-mail address is dpayne@smu.edu.

DFWCRE8TIVE

Sunday Letters: Renaming Ross Avenue
12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, July 20, 2008
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...n1.4d468eb.html

Our forgotten history

Re: "Ross Avenue eyed as namesake for Chávez," by Mercedes Olivera, July 12 Metro.

People want to rename Ross Avenue? Is Dallas going to lose more of its heritage due to the lack of knowledge of its heritage?

According to The WPA Dallas Guide and History, Ross Avenue is named for William W. and Andrew J. Ross, the early owners of land that the street bisects.

We should keep the name Ross Avenue as a reminder of our heritage. How nice it would be if The Dallas Morning News would do an article or series of articles on sources of Dallas street names. It would be nice to have more information than the brief description of the sources in the WPA guide. This would help to pass on Dallas' history and heritage to Dallasites both new and native.

Wayne Gary, Garland

I propose another change

After reading Mercedes Olivera in The Dallas Morning News and seeing that all these folks are determined to rename Ross Avenue after César Chávez, I'm finally onboard. However, to end this conflict over street renaming once and for all time, I would suggest renaming Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard to César Chávez Boulevard.

James H. Donohoe, Gunter

Don't ditch the Rosses

Proponents of changing the name of Ross Avenue to something honoring César Chávez have a noble objective, but they have it all wrong. Why the haste to throw poor William and Andrew Ross under the bus? Now we want to change Ross Avenue's name to that of a California union organizer? Who will be next? What of Akard, Griffin, Harwood, Samuell, Lamar, Ervay, Marilla or Harry Hines?

Terry Murphy, Gun Barrel City

I see no Dallas connection

In Mercedes Olivera's column on Saturday, Aaron Ramirez very unimaginatively said that it's hard to imagine why anyone would be opposed to naming any street after the Arizona-born founder of the United Farm Workers. Mr. Ramirez, allow me to burst your myopic bubble.

As with Industrial Boulevard or any other renaming of streets, I would propose the honoree, if there is to be one, should meet at least one of two criteria: He, or she, should be well connected and a benefactor to Dallas history and/or shall have been of such national significance that all Americans can be proud of his or her contribution to our society.

For instance, Trammell Crow deserves recognition in the Stemmons Corridor just as we have honored his partner, John Stemmons.

Mr. Chávez has no Dallas connection that I'm aware of, and a union organizer isn't exactly a favorite, least of all a migrant worker union leader, in Dallas County.

I have no objections to a street in Dallas being renamed in honor of a Hispanic American. In fact, the arguments advanced for Ross Avenue being a target sound fairly reasonable to me.

I'm sure the heirs of real estate developers William and Andrew Ross can offer their thoughts, if any are still around.

Roland D. Freeman, Dallas

jredallas

Amen Brutha!

rantanamo

There are plenty of generic major thoroughfares around Dallas. Sorry, but this whole fiasco is assinine.

Spjz

So if EBJ had won, would we have had to wait for her to pass away? That poll is becoming more and more ridiculous every day.

UrbanHope

No. There was no push to rename it EBJ by any councilperson. The name was introduced, but it didn't have any support in terms of being moved forward. Most of the council didn't want Industrial named after a person.

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KBilly

It's named after Isaac B. Webb, who held held various political positions in Dallas County in the mid-1800s. He was Dallas County Tax Assessor/Collector (1862-1864), Dallas County Commissioner (1864-1866, 1866-1868, 1868-1870). He was the first Dallas County Postmaster. The Pioneers of Dallas County was organized 13 July 1875 and Isaac B. Webb was elected one of the first vice presidents. He was a minister and his first church in Farmer's Branch was called Webb's Chapel (1845). The name later was shortened to what it is today.

TLep has himself a boat load of trouble here. His backroom-CEO-type pandering and jaw-boning cannot help him now. He has been strangely silent the past week and this is severely going to hurt his future prospects for re-election. The DCC doesn't like this type of thing boiling over in public, and their fair-haired boy got himself in the middle of it.

And what was said above I believe to be correct: no way City Council is going to vote this and have to go on record. Nor will the City Plan commissioners.

__________________

AeroD

Future speech....work in progress...

"Before I begin, I would like to commend the leadership of (INSERT HISPANIC ELECTED OFFICIALS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS).

Our critics told us, "No." But we found inspiration in the words of a great Latino civil rights leader, Cesar Chavez, "Si, se puede!"

Today is a triumphant day for Latinos throughout Dallas and North Texas, as we renamed a city street after someone so dear to our community (or at least to those that matter).

Type 2 Diabetes, high school dropout rates, teenage pregnancy rates, all be damned.

We have turned a corner.

At this point, I would also like to announce that I intend to run for (COUNTY JUDGE OR COUNTY COMMISSIONER).

I will be having a reception at Avanti at the Fountain Place...located on CESAR CHAVEZ!!!

Si, se puede! Si, se puede! Si, se puede!!!"

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