eirin

^ Concerning that story. I'm a little confused as to how a group of people can be so isolated, and not even for a second consider that this isn't practical. It really shouldn't be done. It can be, but it's too costly, and doesn't have any benefits.

They seriously need to reconsider what they could do with the funds that they actually require to build the thing.

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maconahey

This whole thing kinda reminds me of this video:

http://www.humorscore.com/videos/Fa...bborn_As_A_Mule

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jsoto3

jsoto3

Per public requests:
http://dallascityhall.com/committee...kway_060109.pdf

http://www.ntta.org/NR/rdonlyres/8F...ExtendedWEB.pdf

staplesla

The Trinity toll road is delayed for 20 months, and the city will be out $29 million just to study the problems with the Trinity River levees. The full study will take until spring 2012. The City must prove to FEMA by January, 2011 that the levees will withstand a 100-year flood or else the flood insurance maps will be redrawn. City to recommend property owners in flood zone buy insurance before maps are redrawn, since rates are much cheaper until then.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...s.37b5c505.html

cowboyeagle05

hmm now I'm curious how they will spin this one...

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BigD5349

Hmmm. Original vote 1998 -> 2012 (start date) and counting. If it had been approved, the referendum waaaay back in 2007 would have allowed the funded park and levee improvements to be complete before the toll road can even be started, even with the replanning that would have ensued. I would say unbelieveable, but sadly, it's very believeable.

LH_Newbie

If the funds are approved for fixing the damn levees, why does the city continue to fight with the Feds and have to "prove" anything? Start beefing up the levees now, stop these stupid games. How much more political will must be spent on this stupid road before it finally implodes on itself?

gshelton91

I wish we had half as much energy toward fair park and that area as we seem to have toward this Trinity park.

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NThomas

One at a time...

DFWCRE8TIVE

Dallas has until 2011 to halt new Trinity flood maps
12:06 AM CDT on Tuesday, June 2, 2009
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...es.4663d95.html

Rates for flood insurance could soar for thousands of property owners near the Trinity River levees in Dallas unless the city can prove by January 2011 that the levees can meet federal standards.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency will redraw Dallas' flood maps in 2011, unless the city can certify the levees would protect Dallas from a 100-year flood. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers issued a report March 31 that raised questions about the effectiveness of the levees, and rescinded assurances it had given to FEMA previously that they would safeguard the city.

The city's scramble to beat that deadline comes as the city announced Monday that it will spend $29 million and more than two years to test the integrity of the levees.

...

mjblazin

Prove is the wrong word. We have to fix the levees by Jan 2011 or the remaps go ahead. The $29 MM is to determine exactly what to fix. We are not trying to prove the levees don't need repair. I don't think the city knows where t will get the money for the repairs in 2010.

Spjz

There is one place, and one place only, the city will be able to get funding for an undertaking this size (both the parkway and the flood way) and that is the federal government. The state legislature is of virtually no help and the City's deficit will prevent it from tackling even half the costs that are ahead.

It will be interesting to see how Perry uses the TRP in his campaign against Hutchison in the Republican primary. Hutchison is a strong supporter of the TRP which is dependent upon Washington pork.

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UptownDallas

No doubt Hutchison stands to make a tremendous amount of money (via her husband, Ray) when the inevitable block-buster bond issue takes place.

OrangeMike

Didn't see this mentioned yet.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2009-...-have-a-prayer/

BigD5349

From Angela Hunt's website:

TELL FEDS WHAT YOU THINK OF TRINITY TOLL ROAD
(Friday, June 05, 2009)
As part of the federal government’s evaluation of the Trinity Toll Road, they must take public comment. If you didn’t get a chance to attend the "public hearing" last month, you can still provide written comment (which will be included in the public record) through June 30. Here’s the NTTA press release:

Trinity Parkway Public Comment Period Extended

Plano, TX - The public comment period on the Trinity Parkway has been extended until June 30 to allow more time for the public to review and comment on the Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact Statement (SDEIS). The Federal Highway Administration made this decision after they received requests for extensions at and after the Trinity Parkway public hearing held on May 5.

The public comment period is a stage of the environmental review process when the comments are sought from the general public about the project. Initially, the public comment period was scheduled to end on May 15.

Written comments may be submitted via mail to:
NTTA, Attn: Corridor Manager
Re: Trinity Parkway Project
P.O. Box 260729
Plano, TX, 75026

Written comments also will be accepted by e-mail at trinityparkway@ntta.org. All comments must be received or postmarked on or before Tuesday, June 30, 2009, to be included in the public hearing record.

Those interested in reviewing the SDEIS can do so on-line at http://www.ntta.org/AboutUs/Projects/TrinityParkway.htm

BigD5349

Angela posted a link to an interesting story on her website about the Trinity River Project:

Texas Observer Story

It's interesting what the guys who came up with the Balanced Vision Plan (Alex Krieger and Bill Eager) had to say about the toll road. I have recently been curious where they are today, and what they think of the project now. Here's the excerpt:

Spjz

I am not as optimistic as Angela or Schutze concerning the "death" of the current Trinity Parkway alignment. Angela and Jim seem to believe there is a price figure out there that is so high it will prevent further progress. Call me a cynic, but if local officials, the NTTA, and the Dallas congressional delegation really want this thing, aren't they going to get it?

Though I certainly don't buy the bullshit argument that Project Pegasus and S.M. Wright are necessarily predicated on the completion of the Trinity Parkway.

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electricron

I'm not sure how applicable this news article relates to the Trinity River levees, but it should liven up this discussion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609...treeless_levees

Army Corps orders thousands of trees chopped down
COLUMBIA, La. – The Army Corps of Engineers is on a mission to chop down every tree in the country that grows within 15 feet of a levee — including oaks and sycamores in Louisiana, willows in Oklahoma and cottonwoods in California.
The corps is concerned that the trees' roots could undermine barriers meant to protect low-lying communities from catastrophic floods like the ones caused by Hurricane Katrina.
An Associated Press survey of levee projects nationwide shows that the agency wants to eliminate all trees along more than 100,000 miles of levees. But environmentalists and some civil engineers insist the trees pose little or no risk and actually help stabilize levee soil.
The anti-tree policy arose from criticism directed at the corps after Katrina breached levees in New Orleans in 2005. The agency promised to get tough on levee managers and improve flood protection.
In 2006, the corps began sending hundreds of letters to levee districts across the nation, ordering them to cut down "unwanted woody vegetation," a prospect that could cost many of the districts millions of dollars each in timber-clearing expenses. Inspectors began an inventory of the levee system and told districts to fill in animal burrows, repair culverts and patch up erosion. If they fail to comply, the agencies risk higher flood insurance premiums and a loss of federal funding.
"The corps' new edict was regarded as a major change in policy," said Ronald Stork, senior policy expert with California Friends of the River in Sacramento. "Something that is cheap and inexpensive is a chain saw. It was something to do that didn't cost a lot of money that made you feel better."
In 2007, the corps sought to clear oaks, cottonwoods, willows and other vegetation from 1,600 miles of levees in California's Central Valley. But state wildlife officials complained that the policy would destroy habitat, and residents in Sacramento and elsewhere objected that it would have turned rivers into little more than barren culverts. The corps eventually dropped the idea.
In a neighborhood north of Sacramento, the corps plans to rebuild the levees surrounding a basin that is home to 70,000 people and has determined that 900 trees, mostly native valley oaks, must be cut down.
Experts outside the corps say a tree has never caused a U.S. levee failure.

My take: The Corps may be over-reacting to the condition's of Dallas' Trinity River levees too.

Hannibal Lecter

"It's nothing to worry about. The engineers are over-reacting. We've seen this kind of thing before and it ended up not being a problem."

citizen

Lucky for us that Mayor Liepert got them to sign off on planting new trees along the toll road.

Tnekster

Dallas council approves $29 million for levee and toll road studies
11:49 AM Wed, Jun 10, 2009 | Permalink
Rudolph Bush/Reporter Bio | E-mail | News tips


The Dallas City Council approved $29 million this morning to study the city's damaged levee system and to continue preliminary work on the proposed Trinity River toll road.

The levee study is necessary as the city begins to address a devastating report issued in March by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that rated Dallas' flood control system unacceptable.

The levees are not only incapable of protecting against an 800-year flood event but may not even be up to protecting the city against a 100-year flood, the corps concluded.

It is unknown how extensive repairs to the levees will have to be or what cost the city will bear to complete them.

Most of the funding approved today will go for engineering studies that will begin to answer those questions.

Of four funding items approved today in connection with the levees, only one drew opposition, a planned $1.3 million increase in the amount the city has paid for an ongoing environmental impact statement on the controversial toll road.

The additional funds are needed to continue work on the toll road in conjunction with the levee study, city managers told the council.

Council member Angela Hunt, a longtime opponent of the road, questioned why the city would continue spending money on a road project that may yet be rejected by the corps.

"I will not be supporting adding more dollars into this black hole under any circumstance," she said.

Joining her in opposing the $1.3 million toll road funding was council member Mitchell Rasansky.

Some $25.5 million of the funding approved today will be paid to engineering firm HNTB to "provide analysis, modeling, planning and design for the Dallas Floodway System," according to the council agenda.

That work will include boring into the levees and analyzing their stability at points throughout the system.

The $25.5 million will come from 1998 bond funds originally intended for reconstruction of the Able sump pump station. That project will be delayed.

Funding for the toll road environmental impact study will come from $84 million in bond funds set aside for design and construction of the road.

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/...ves-29-mil.html

Mballar

What a waste, indeed!

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BC_Club

I have been listening to the City Hall Council briefings this morning on Sanse and cannot believe the incompetents we have on the council and it is NO WONDER we are where we are with this project because of that incompetency......enough said cuz we all know that. A couple ideas/comments on our Trinity River Corrider Project:

The city messed up with the Army Corps of Engineers by NOT maintaining the levees, out of site out of mind.

The Army Corps is on roids with this idea to cut down trees!...outta their mind, at least with the trees it's a sewage ditch with some variance.

Invite Chesapeake in to the flood plain and go hog wild drilling for gas and oil for that matter, fill it with derricks until the whole substrate collpases and THEN we have our BIG HOLE for Trinity Town Lake, damn the Trinity and we got a huge chasm filled with water and instead of the tollway, high speed ferries anyone!

If that does not work, the simple method is dig it out, use the soil to raise the levees...oops..wait we cannot do that because all the bridges crossing the levees are at levee top now including the Calatrava Hunt Italian Macrame footpath.

Venice anyone - breach the levees and convert Dallas to the Venice of the South.

Elevate the Trinity Parkway, as long as they do not reach the levee tops.

I am so sick and tired of these shenannigans !! I reviewed the FEMA website becasue I am in the 100 year flood plain off Cedar Creek in Oak CLiff by the Zoo. Cost, $1200-$1500 a year because I am in a high risk plain (my choice). New York-New Jersey broke ground on the new ARC tran-Hudson tunnel with completion in 2017 at a price tag of $9 billion. Me thinks this is a dead horse.

Had to vent - listening to 6 hours so far of council meetings is just dirty, a shower is in order!

AndyIvey

I hate to think critically, but could it be that the City maintained the levees to "acceptable" levels until those levels were revised post-Katrina and improvements were required? There's a difference between maintaining something and improving it. The current mess appears to be about improvmenets that need to be made. If you think there are problems now, wait until this aging flood control system is reviewed using current technology, modern controls, and a touch of post-Katrina hysteria. We'll probably find that the levees don't provide the protection we thought, fall far short of the latest requirements, and require a significant investment of time and money to fix. You might be thinking that we already know that, but we actually don't. Have someone stamp their PE seal on those findings and then we'll actually have some concrete items to discuss. I believe that's exactly what the City set in action today.

TheMapman

The levees were fine. Then the Corps changed their standards, with no clear explanation as to why - they claim it was because of Katrina. However, the New Orleans levees that failed were completely different (concrete walls), caused by a barge hitting the levee in the Industrial Canal for the worst scenario (the Lower 9th Ward), in an area below sea level next to, functionally, the sea (Lake Ponchatrain). The cherry on top of this turd is that the levees in NO have been rebuilt *exactly* as they were before the storm, rather than to a new, improved, tougher standard.

Dallas is above sea level, next to a river, not an ocean, and has no navigable traffic on its waterways, so no boats to pose a threat if there is a flood. Dallas will not be hit by a hurricane (or in an extreme case, a weak one at best) and will not be subject to storm surge. Despite Shootz & Co.'s best fear mongering, you will not have a Katrina-like situation in Dallas.

Go ahead and blame the city if it makes you feel better, but I don't see how you can expect them (or the county, or the state) to anticipate the wild changes that the Corps are requiring.

If you're in a floodplain and are now going have to buy insurance (or if you're a tree on the levee), direct your anger at the Corps, not the city. The Corps hardly has a checkered past - they're the ones who signed off on the NO levee system in the first place. They've diverted waterways to places where water doesn't naturally want to flow, which creates way more flood problems than any trees ever have and ever will.

Spjz

So why has the city been trumpeting improved flood control with the Trinity River Project?

How 'bout the fact that the 1990 flood was only a 60 year flood and it still managed to flood portions of South Dallas, Oak Cliff, and West Dallas.

First, if you're saying that the levee maintanence is regulated by a bunch of unfunded federal mandates, you'd be right. Second, several levees failed in New Orleans. I recall seeing videos of both concrete and earth levees being over-topped during Katrina. If you've ever been to the city, you'll know that they have many earth levees around town.

And if I'm not mistaken, they have a similar problem in that their earth levees have eroded with age and are lower now than when they were first constructed.

We'll have to split the baby here. Obviously Schutze exaggerates when he speaks of possible or likely catastrophes, but concerning the general feasibility of the project, I'd say he's been pretty attentive and insightful.

Also, you're not taking into consideration Dallas County's topography. There is a limestone escarpment that runs from southwest to northeast and all water runoff form the north and from the west must pass through a very narrow gap in the escarpment, approximately where the Houston St. viaduct now stands. By putting the toll road inside the levees, the City is making this crucial passage even narrower.

I don't blame the city for the levees, although the do deserve some of the blame. I blame the city for pursuing the design and construction of a road that is short-sighted transportation policy, bad urban planning, and fiscally irresponsible.

So are you saying if the Corps does sign off on the toll road, then the city shouldn't build it?

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TheMapman

There's always room for improvement.



Was that due to the levees or a failure of a pumping station(s) like we're seeing today, unfortunately, in West Dallas? I wasn't around then so I'm asking.



I've been to NO several times. I believe there were some minor breaches but in most cases the flooding was due to either a) spillover because the levees (earthen or concrete) weren't high enough, combined with land at or below sea level (in areas like Florida, the Upper 9th, etc) or b) because of a failure of a concrete levee, possibly due to a breach caused by a unsecured barge, like in the Lower 9th, which created the tsunami-effect that Schootz has promised will attack DTD if we build a toll road.



Very possible, given the topography of New Orleans. Things built on a swamp tend to sink. Again, that specific issue wouldn't ever be as severe in Dallas.



His penchant for exaggeration and hyperbole is exactly what undercuts his credibility. He has done some good reporting, for sure, on some things. But when he loses his cool (and his editors have no interest in reigning him in) by calling people idiots or predicting the end of days due to a flood...come on. The sad thing is, there are people who believe that crap.



I don't know anything about that.



I won't contest the urban planning point. Fiscally irresponsible? I don't think that question has been settled...the NTTA is still looking into it. There's a lot to be said for better traffic flow in the Stemmons corridor. As much as I'd love to see us stop building freeways and start building more mass transit options, that's not going to happen yet. So spending that money on another freeway option entirely in the City of Dallas that is minimally disruptive to the existing built environment (assuming flood control is okay) seems like a better option than using it to extend the Tollway to Norman (which will probably happen anyway).



LOL, well, I don't think I meant that they're so bad that we should do the opposite of whatever they say. But I do question the timing, reasoning, and motives behind their sudden change of heart on our levee system.

Spjz

And therein lies the problem. A few excerpts from the Dallas Morning News:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...r.6a7a655b.html

I'm no engineer, but I have talked to several people who know a bit about this stuff and I'm better read on the topic then the average lay person. Flood prevention is fought on many fronts. The first line of defense against an catastrophic flood is the undeveloped earth. After hitting the ground, water is absorbed into the soil. In urban North Texas, more and more water hits a artificial surface - such as a parking lot or building roof - and is diverted into a drainage system which ultimately sends all water into the nearest stream or river. For most of North Texas, that's the West Fort or Elm Fork of the Trinity River. The sump stations help expedite the runoff into the river and the levees contain it as it flows downstream into the newly restored wetlands.

I think most of us can agree that proper flood control only occurs when all of the above - drainage systems, sump stations, levees, wetlands - are properly maintained and working in conjunction with one another. But in Leppert's mind, levee and sump improvements must also be compatible with a six lane toll road sitting on a big pile of dirt out in the middle of the most critical flood control component - the Trinity Flood Way.

Perhaps you need to set aside your personal feelings for the guy and do your best to extract good information from the bad. In a free press society, democracy demands just that. At least Jim doesn't attempt to hide his bias. Can't say the same for the local daily. Belo CEO Dechard was featured on the "Save the Trinity" website during the referendum petition drive while at the same time Bruce Tomaso was doing hatchet job journalism on Angela Hunt. The truth lies somewhere between the two of them. When it comes to the DISD, it probably lies a little closer to the Morning News. When it comes to the TRP, Schutze's analysis has carried more water - pun intended - than the DMN.

Glad we can agree.

Oh, I think they're all but finished looking into it. They've already admitted that there will be at least a billion dollar shortfall on financing the road. That leaves it up to the feds to fund. Unfortunately, in Washington, politics rather than feasibility will carry the day.

We are at a fork in the road - again, pun intended - concerning whether we should build transit or highway. The heated debate in Austin concerning the local option tax is evidence of this. Conservatives wouldn't have yelled so much if they didn't see rail, and the corresponding tax, as a threat. How Dallas handles Pegasus, the Trinity Parkway, and the S.M. Wright remodeling will tell us a lot about what direction we are headed. If you truly believe that more mass transit is needed, now is the time to make your stand. If you want to move the Trinity River Project forward, we've got to kill this toll road, and kill it dead.

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TheMapman

The only place we disagree is here. I really don't think he's this gunslinging mayor dead-set on a tollroad through the floodplain, risks be damned. Leppert is no cowboy, he was in the construction business - he knows the risks and the rewards. No one has said definitively that you can't have both a tollroad and improved flood control.



True, he doesn't hide his bias. But that doesn't give him (or Belo) carte blanche to make reckless and inaccurate statements.

Glad we can agree.



We are at a fork in the road - again, pun intended - concerning whether we should build transit or highway. The heated debate in Austin concerning the local option tax is evidence of this. Conservatives wouldn't have yelled so much if they didn't see rail, and the corresponding tax, as a threat. How Dallas handles Pegasus, the Trinity Parkway, and the S.M. Wright remodeling will tell us a lot about what direction we are headed. If you truly believe that more mass transit is needed, now is the time to make your stand. If you want to move the Trinity River Project forward, we've got to kill this toll road, and kill it dead.[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong - I am a HUGE supporter of mass transit. But the shift in the mindset of Americans is going to take a generation - if you do believe we can get to a more worldly view of urban transportation, it's not going to happen overnight. While it is growing, DART's ridership is still a VERY small percentage of the total number of people commuting throughout the Metroplex on any given day.

Just as highway supporters routinely point out that mass transit is heavily subsidized by government, highways are as well, and a combination of federal, state and local funds to close the gap on the Trinity Tollway is no different than the proposed reconstruction of I-30 east of downtown. These funding changes need to take place at the federal level, and despite some positive momentum we're going to see the mass transit funds pillaged by Congress again this summer to close the deficit in the Highway Trust Fund.

I think the Trinity Tollway should be built, and I think it will be the last major highway built in Dallas. Think of it as the end of an era. Keep pushing to change the public's mind about transportation and we will some day get there. But it's going to be incremental, not a revolution. I agree that Pegasus, the Tollway, and SM Wright are huge to the future of Dallas (and I'd add LBJ and I-30 east to that) - all of these projects (except for the LBJ rebuild) are about rerouting traffic, with limited capacity, to minimize the disruption in the urban landscape.

UptownDallas

North Texas Tollway Authority to discuss toll rate increase today

09:10 AM CDT on Tuesday, June 16, 2009
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News


Among other cuts, the NTTA will postpone for at least one year a $35 million traffic and revenue study for the Trinity toll road.

That will delay design work on the controversial toll road, but Davis said work there was already going to stop temporarily, thanks to concerns about the Trinity River levees. The city of Dallas announced this month it will spend $29 million and more than two years studying the levees, which the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has said are inadequate.

OrangeMike

Who will deliver the coup de grace to the Trinity toll road, the Corps or NTTA?

mjblazin

The logic was that since the city, with its $29 MM study, kicked the can down the road another year before any group would know the next step, NTTA may as well save the $35 MM for use after the city's surveys are complete. I don't think the NTTA action means much at this point.

UptownDallas

DFWCRE8TIVE

City to pay over $650K to tenants in path of Trinity toll plan
11:52 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 23, 2009
By BRAD WATSON / WFAA-TV
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d...e.1c9f052f.html

Wednesday, the Dallas City Council is expected to finish approving the deal, which regards a motel in the planned path of the Trinity toll road that may never be built.

Nitaben Elphick is one of the last to move after staying in a room with her children at the Delux Inn Motel for four years.But, unlike when most people move, she will receive almost $24,000 from the city. She calls it a dream come true.

"This is a big, big blessing for me," she said. "Tears come out of my eyes just telling you."

Elphick is among 47 tenants at the motel that the city will pay. In all, the city will pay out about $669,000 for tenants to relocate. Tenants had to live at the motel only 90 days to qualify.

The city bought the motel for $4 million because the Trinity toll road is supposed to come off Stemmons Freeway and run right through the area. However, there is no guarantee the toll road will ever be built since that's up to the federal government.

Yet, in pressing ahead and buying the property, the city must follow federal law requiring moving and relocation payments for anyone displaced, even motel tenants.

With the city considering laying off hundreds of employees, council member Mitchell Rasansky opposed the payments.

"So, they can live there for 90 days and get $24,000, $25,000?" he said. "That's great. Thank you. I won't support it."

But, the majority sided with Mayor Tom Leppert.

"If we stop now then all of sudden we lose all of the progress and it will be very difficult to come back," Leppert said.

The last Delux Inn relocation payment goes before the council Wednesday. By then, Elphick will be in the new home she bought with her city money.

"It's a beautiful happy day," she said.

The city plans to demolish the 45-year-old motel later this summer.

Mballar

^The tollroad won't happen. This is a BIG waste of money.

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OrangeMike

So if we stop pissing money away on this boondoggle, then it will be very difficult to start pissing money away on it again at some later date? Does this make any sense whatsoever?

Spjz

It makes sense only if you believe, as does the Mayor, that we must and will build the road either within the levees or along Irving/Industrial Blvd.

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NThomas

He does know about Project Pegasus right? I mean, we haven't even heard those 2 words ever uttered for city hall these days.

DFWCRE8TIVE

Federal highway agency delays decision on Dallas' Trinity toll road
01:03 PM CDT on Monday, June 29, 2009
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER/The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...l.1b8fafe2.html

Problems with the Trinity River levees have prompted the Federal Highway Administration to postpone a decision about where to build the controversial Trinity toll road, the agency's top official in Texas said Monday.

In addition, the FHWA official said any additional costs to the toll road as a result of work on the levees will be considered by the agency as it decides where the road should go.

"Additional costs will be a factor," said Janice W. Brown, chief of the Texas division of the FHWA. "But we don't yet know how much more the road will cost as a result of the levees."

...

As a result, the road is now seen as taking at least until late 2015, a delay of 20 months or more.

...

BigD5349

I've decided to adopt the "don't be frustrated, just be happy" strategy.

Mayor Leppert, you are one cool dude.

NThomas

With these two things, doesn't that mean unless the city rebuilds the levees (or bring them to corps standards) the insurance on the tollroad would skyrocket too. Surely NTTA has insurance for the existing toll roads right? If a bomb were to create a HUGE crater in the middle of the DNT-PGBT NTTA would have the money to fix that? If there is no flood insurance for the tollway, how would repairs be made when the 100-year flood rolls around (or the flash flood earlier this month) and someone (TxDot, Corps, etc.) deems the tollway to be structurally inefficient?

Spjz

Flood insurance for the road is not the problem, at least as I understand it. To keep the road from flooding, all the NTTA has to do is pile a bunch of dirt high enough to avoid floods. That or build the highway on a series of piers much like I45 currently exists within Dallas city limits.

In other words, the road itself is not in any significant danger of flooding, rather, critics argue - in my opinion, convincingly - that the road will cause more flooding in adjacent areas.

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NThomas

I find it hard to believe after the last flash flood this month, that NTTA could build the tollway to stay above flood (even occasional flash flood) water. If NTTA wanted to go ahead and build the tollway on piers, why not elevate it over Industrial? Or elevate it north of I-30 between the main lanes of I-35E?

Spjz

Simple math, if the 800 year flood occurs at X, then build the road at X+1. It really doesn't matter how you get to X+1 - i.e. dirt, piers, pixie dust - just so long as you get there.
(1) Money, (2) the people who own property along Industrial Blvd don't like your idea and they're opinion goes farther in this town than yours or mine ever will, and (3) you are getting very sleepy.....

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downtownguy25

Hong Kong now has them perhaps there is hope for Dallas.....

Solar-Powered Ferries to Sail Hong Kong Harbor, Cut Emissions

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...id=aBI2jhlqoZXg

MarkL2023

They just released a new video rendering of the Trinity Tollway

quietthings

What's up with the webcam? The timestamp up in the corner says September 30th and it never changes.

Random Traffic Guy

I note today it must have been momentarily fixed, as it now seems stuck on Dec 6 night. I have lost my habit of checking on a daily basis. My 2009 time lapse video will be pretty lame.

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Public transit's usefulness is determined by land use planning more than by transit planning. Jarrett Walker - Human Transit Blog