St-T

We should be more upset with the zoning & planning commission and not the developer. I thought we had zoning laws so that Dallas would not look like Houston!

Tnekster

^The next time he tries to build something this pathetic we should take a stand.

incrediculous

He could very well see that land as a capital investment not yet primed. Rather than sit around and lose money for five years while waiting for his investment to mature, why not whip up some plaster walls and earn a little income in the mean time?

Granted, there's no way in hell you could admit that to anyone, especially with tenants listening.

1999McKinneyAve

Look at it this way. Compared to the Dickeys BBQ/Overpriced gas station, it doesnt look all that bad! In reality, the two east corners of McKinney Ave and Routh/Maple are the most hideous for miles around...

BigD5349

Yes, that whole intersection needs an overhaul. I would really be surprised if something wasn't cooking with that huge parking area behind Trulucks and the gas station.

That doesn't make me like Shafer's any better.

BigD5349

You know, sometimes you get an itch and have to keep scratching it. I know a lot of you don't think Dallas and pedestrian go in the same sentence, and you're mostly right, but we often don't make simple accommodations to allow the two worlds of transit to peacefully co-exist. So, it's time to nitpick on Shafer some more!

In the first picture, you will see the latest addition, a drive-through bank window. It's a trashy, low cost add-on that looks like a trashy, low cost add-on. This is the side of the building facing Maple-Routh.

Now, if as a pedestrian, I approach this building at McKinney & Pearl, I will see the landscaping. See picture 2. Nice, right? Well, the entire property is lined with bushes and in places, concrete escarpments. If I want to walk onto the property, I can do that two ways... I can cut through the bushes and take a big step up over the concrete ledge and onto the parking lot, and navigate throught parked cars, or, I can walk down the length of the building and go in where the cars go in, at the driveway, picture 3.

Look, I know this is not the end of the world, but I find it irritating that this idiot cannot make the most simple accommodation and put some entry points for walkers.

I intend to trample through the bushes, as I am sure most people will. If it's muddy, I hope I don't track the mud into any of the establishments there. But no promises.

I hate this development.

There were several nights this fall when McKinney Avenue was all we ever hoped for -- every outdoor cafe was filled with people, you could hear music playing in several places, people watching college football games, etc. People were *actually walking*, as was I. During that time of year, the weather is outstanding. On some of these nights, you don't want to be in a car! This, I thought, was why I moved here.

Dallas, like any other city, has it's walking seasons -- Spring, early Summer, Fall, and we get plenty of good nights in the early and late winter.

I've lived in the burbs most of my life. The reason I moved to uptown is that I was looking for something different. Where is our planning commissioner, Neal Emmons? Angela Hunt, where do you stand on this? What is the plan to make sure that developments are more urban than suburban?

I'm watching the developments come up on McKinney Ave, and I think the area is at a tipping point. McKinney Ave today is somewhat differentiated from other places in the Dallas area, pedestrian oriented in places, a bricked roadway with a trolley. It actually has some street energy in the evenings. If it becomes lined with isolated developments where the car rules by itself, then I'm interested in going somewhere else. There at least has to be a balance.

WestTexan

^Well put. This developement represents a monumental failure by everyone involved. Although easy walking distance to my office, I don't anticipate patronizing any of its tenants.

drumguy8800

Oh my gosh quit whining everyone, its just like Highland Park Village. Not everything has to have apartments on top, and at least they have some underground parking. It's over. It's done. So cry about it.

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eburress

Uptown Village is far from being "just like Highland Park Village." Not to get into Highland Park Village's superior quality and/or aesthetics, unlike Uptown Village, it was actually built in a suburban area. Highland Park Village looks suburban because it was (and is) suburban.

In other news, some might find this funny...

I pasted everything everyone in this thread has said about Uptown Village into an email and sent it to Steve Shafer (Principal/CEO/President), Jay C. Harrison (Chief Financial Officer), David P. McNeil (Executive Vice President ), Corey Wade Duhon (Vice President of Leasing), and Ryan C. Shafer (Broker/Development Associate). I'll post whatever replies they send when/if I receive them.

I don't live in Dallas anymore but I travel there on business quite a bit and still pay attention to what's going on. Every time I pass that TOTAL PIECE OF $HIT development, I really want to throw up. With all of the amazing things happening in Dallas, it is an absolute crime that Shafer did what he/they did to such a prime piece of real estate.

tamtagon

And, some really nice Live Oak trees were growing on the property when the Salvation Army office was there. Sure would have been nice for those trees to still be there.

Boredkid

This area, while could have been nicer, brings much needed assets to the area. Not every thing can be a nice highrise. People need to eat, get dry cleaning and many other things. Many of which can be done here. Hopefully over time, as you guys get used to it, you will stop complaining.

BigD5349

Sorry, I'm going to keep saying it. What I am after is that Dallas develop this as more of an urban neighborhood.

I know the battle over this particular property is over -- there it sits, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it. But I live here and I came here for a reason. This isn't Glenn Heights, or Plano, or Frisco. This is on McKinney Avenue, the Main Street of Uptown; one block away from the Arts District. No, I will not shut up.

Boredkid

If you feel that stongly about it, buy it and build something you would rather have there.

1999McKinneyAve

I think what it truly represents is that Schafer has zero architectual talent, or simply doesn't give a flip. It's not just Uptown Plaza...its also the strip center they built on McKinney (former fabric store location) and Knox Plaza at Knox-Henderson and 75. What's funny (in a sad way) is how they keep adding stuff to Uptown Plaza. One day it's blue awnings, then it's a bank drive-thru afterthought, then it's landscaping from Home Depot's reject section, and finally clearance poles that sit at every entrance. Reminds me of Mr. Potato Head and how it doesn't matter what pieces you add to the main piece, it's always going to be a potato.

Milkman Dan

I wonder how many of the people who are bitching about this development have actually done ANYTHING constructive besides posting on a message board. GO TO THE CITY WEBSITE, GET SOME NAMES AND ADDRESSES AND CALL / WRITE THE COUNCILPERSON AND P&Z PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AREA. Hint: The 2 who should be getting the most calls / letters / emails are named above in the thread.

Posting rants on a message board is the most worthless waste of time and unproductive activity known to man in order to solve a problem. Sometimes I think people are actually replacing real life with bulletin board posts.

And as far as emailing Shafer - Just don't go to any of the stores. Emailing all of them will do nothing. Except cause them to laugh their way to the bank, which is exactly what I'd be doing.

tamtagon

^Personally, I dont expect that corner to look like that in five years. As the neighborhood population grows pushing up the percentage of walk-up customers, Schafer should easily get a variance to build somethign replacing the surface parking.

??How easily and quickly could additional underground parking get built??

In the mean time, it's better than nothing regardless of how bad it looks. If that neighborhood continues to get swanky, no one will want to go to Pei Wei because it's in the ugly strip center polluting the ultra-luxury urban neighborhood.

This place is just a placeholder as I see it.

msutton

well put

Razorback

First, does Shafer do ANYTHING besides crappy strip malls?

It will take longer than 5 years. I guarantee that all of those tenants are locked into leases for at least five years, some maybe ten. As long as Shafer is collecting rents sufficient to pay the note associated with this property, I doubt anything will happen. An increase in property taxes won't spur it because the rents are likely NNN leases and those increases are passed along to the tenants anyway, with no net loss to Shafer.

It will take an outside entity coming in and bidding up the property beyond what they spent building this strip center and making an offer to offset any damages any of the existing tenants can claim because of their forced relocation.

If property values and density increase within the next four years to make the speculators come out looking for opportunities to redevelop properties like this, then its a possibility. I'm afraid we're stuck with this thing for at least 8-10 years.

1999McKinneyAve

Milkman, I can only speak for myself, but I have sat in more neighborhood meetings, City Planning meetings, homeowners associations, sat on the HOA board, and returned more blue forms back to the city than I care to remember. Three and a half years ago I scraped together every penny I could find to become an owner on LoMac, well before Victory, the Ritz, the Ashton, etc. were ever announced. So I do more than just post comments on here, I am very involved in the area and in 2002 invested my life savings into the faith that Uptown would thrive. I'm sure others on here are just as involved with the area as I am. Can you say the same?

Columbus Civil

guilty

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carousel

I agree w/ you in spirit (about not supporting the tenants). The plaza fell way short considering its location. However, you are fighting a losing battle. These tenants will flourish (especially good ole Pei Wei). Let's pray on bended knee that Mr. Schafer takes his boxes elsewhere.

Tnekster

^I agree this corner will do exceptionally well once it opens. I also think the only coarse of action in the future is to fight much harder when we know Schafer is involved. But I hope he just moves on to the suburbs.

St-T

I'm sure it will do fine--just like the friggin Uptown Wal-Mart is always packed. I live in the supposed "urban master-planned" neighborhood of State-Thomas... on one entry we have the very suburban Wal-Mart--on the other entry of the hood we have the cheap looking Shaffer Center. Both will do well because they give the neighbors something they need. But, it would have been so much astatically pleasing to have developments that "fit" more into the neighborhood.

Milkman Dan

I don't live in uptown, however I spend a good deal of time of McKinney Ave for work. I am not trying to accuse you or anyone else of not doing enough for the area - I am not taking a side on the development at all, however the incessant griping via the message board is a waste of time... that was my only point.

I applaud your efforts to improve your surroundings and increase the quality of life for everyone around you (as you perceive it). If you could have got more people to do the same during the design / permitting process, this might have all been avoided. As it stands now - a moot point like drumguy said. Maybe this lesson will prepare others for future fights.

As an aside, I wonder if Shafer gave much in the way of campaign contributions to anyone over the last year(s)...? Is this a job for Jim Shultze?

eburress

Corey Duhon's (Shafer Property Company Vice President of Leasing) reply to my email. Ouch...he really told me.

"There are always two sides to every argument. I lived in Uptown for five years and look forward to the growth and expansion of the neighborhood. Providing quality retail, restaurants and services to the Uptown community is our number one goal. In order to achieve such a goal, there are certain guidelines that developers must follow in order to abide by the City of Dallas ordinances. One of those ordinances pertains to parking requirements for vehicles. Yes, vehicles. People still drive in Dallas. If you ignore that fact as a retail developer in Dallas, then you will soon find yourself out of a job. Even in Uptown, shopping center developers must use the exact same parking requirements as they would for a shopping center in far North Dallas. You can clearly observe what happens to certain areas of Dallas that lack convenient parking. For those of you who criticize, where were you when city officials approved the building design and architecture? This is your neighborhood, there were several opportunities for you to make suggestions at city meetings or to give me a call while we were in our design stage. My sign was up for six months before we started construction. The actual building materials used are original Ludiuici tile, real stucco and real stone. We spent three times as much as we have ever spent on any retail building. Furthermore, the building is not complete, there are more design elements that will enhance the appearance of the building to come. Please, just give the building a chance. Being across from the Crescent is a hard act to follow, without a doubt the Crescent is the most elegant office building in the Southern United States. All we are trying to do is provide a place for those that office in the Crescent to grab Pad Thai at Pei Wei, or a Potbelly's sandwich for lunch, and maybe a nice dinner at Grotto later that night.

But honestly, can't you find something better to do on a Saturday night than writing an e-mail criticizing a shopping center?

Corey Duhon"

Any thoughts?

Kelley USA

Well the guy does make a good point- the sign was posted at the site forever... And I guess Potbelly must be a new addition for the center- never saw them mentioned before.

Razorback

Yes. Shafer properties is either a Turd Sandwich or a Giant Douche. I haven't decided...

Tnekster

^I heard something about that parking situation recently. I think the developers of West Village faced a similar challenge when trying to develop that property, they all do. Obviously they arrived at a different solution than Shafer did. I also remember something about that particular requirement being changed at some point in the future to allow easier development of mixed used projects. I think I heard this from the guy that spoke at our awards ceremony from the City of Dallas Economic Development office. I know the city is very aware of the problem, it takes a very patient yet persistant developer to make it happen the way they want/need.

Columbus Civil

You should fault the City for not having specific guidelines to take the phantom pedestrians into account. You can't expect all developers to go out of their way to design something to fit some tree hugging new urbanists definition of good design. Developers do what they do to make money. If some go out of their way to incorporate design elements that ignore the transportation choice made by 99% of Dallasites, then good for them I guess.

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Lakewooder

"real stucco" !

Oh gosh I am now completely contrite!

Razorback

Tis true. Many a planning code was established for primarily suburban style development and does not address properly the needs of an urban environment.

Different design and code requirements for different parts of the city.

Or we could emulate our ugly stepsister to the south and chuck all planning out the winder...

drumguy8800

I was about to mention Houston. Just got back and actually I couldn't even tell that there was a lack of zoning and stuff. The city seemed to flow well.

I like how they have an actual separation between their "up"- and "down"- towns..

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St-T

Well, drive down Westheimer-- church, porno store, day care, church, liquor store.....

nice zoning! ...or lack there of!

Tnekster

How do they deal with urban development options down there? It seems like thier stand on zoning would really complicate the issue.

St-T

You can have a high rise anywhere--or a little strip mall anywhere... I think the idea is that land values will dictate land use.

Bryant

Heretic!

rjlevins

I know what you mean. I'm always concerned when I see a day care next to a church. After becoming a part of the planning process in Austin, it does not surprise me how these things are overlooked.

euburress, thank you for posting that response. It's clear that Shafer Property Company is only aiming to do the bare minimum. You might want to forward that on to city staff. I know I'll keep it in mind if I ever see their name pop up down here.

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St-T

I think the building is awful----but, I would have been cool if they would have pushed the footprint to the street and had all the parking in the rear... the very minimum!

Boredkid

But then people might have to walk...

30kmillionaire

Anyone know when Pei Wei opens?

SMU Urban

I would like to second Drumguy about Houston. I was at a mixed use conference there earlier this week and the cities look the same. Apparently they still have setbacks, variances and other design codes, just no land use codes. And I've never been down Westheimer, but what you described about liquor store next to a church, etc. wouldn't be allowed under state law. The way I understand it, you can not have a place that sells or consumes alcohol within a certain distance of a church.

Boredkid

Dont people consume alcohol in churches though?

Columbus Civil

Catholics don't.

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Boredkid

nm, once its consumed it becomes Jesus's blood.

Columbus Civil

It becomes Christ's blood during transubstantiation..before consumption.

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Boredkid

opps, thanks for clarifying.

BigD5349

There's an article in today's paper: "New urbanism is picking up steam in Duncanville; Work on downtown offices, town houses to start in spring..."

For all you Pei Wei fiends out there, it is now open at Shafer's Uptown Plaza. Maybe the Morning News can announce the opening with the following story: "Old suburbanism like splash of cold water in Uptown" ...

Tnekster

What section was that in?

BigD5349

Metro page 8. I'd post it here, but it probably belongs in a different thread.