How low is too low if you're a ceiling?
I think the build is fantastic. Too bad there's not a college downtown that needs a dormitory.
There's really no such thing these days as "middle income" housing. It would have to be either a low income residential hotel or a loft place for Yuppies. I'll let you suggest the first alternative at city hall and I'll stand outside and watch them all run around screaming.
How low is too low if you're a ceiling?
I think the build is fantastic. Too bad there's not a college downtown that needs a dormitory.
^The interior floor-to-ceiling height is only 8 ft.
The building itself is wonderful; there's nothing better in the entire city to recall the swanky 1950s.
Someone ought to be able to accentuate those positives and make it an attractive place to live.
Perhaps they could entice future renters/buyers with larger floor plans and better prices.....despite the low ceilings?
I am sure there are many buildings across the world with similar problems. Surely they don't demolish them, right?
Nevermind, I have no idea what I am talking about. It is still boils down to DINERO.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
^I think it's not that the floor-to-ceiling height is 8' - that describes every room in my house - but that it's more difficult to clear out all the old stuff, and bring in all the new stuff.
Is that right? The rennovation problem with The Grand is because it's more difficult to haul around building materials?
How high are the ceilings in the Mercantile or Republic Bank buildings? I dont get it.
Now I want DCCC to move El Centro to the Farmers Market area, become a four year university, and use The Grand as a dormitory. There, the rooms dont need all that much reconfiguration. It would be pretty cool to have a dorm life just a couple blocks from Deep Ellum.
Well, I googled this redevelopment issue and found this article:
There's got to be a developer out there who recognizes the potential. The location and architecture are primo. If Dallas would move ahead with the adjacent park, I think a developer will move in.
^Thanks for the link, Big D!
I'm still confused:
Why are 8 foot ceilings so unattractive?Its reinforced concrete floors and 8-foot ceilings make the hotel building hard to convert into modern loft apartments, said Assistant City Manager Ryan Evans.
"The only way to make it attractive would be to punch a hole in the floor and make the room two levels, but the expense of that might be prohibitive," he said. "So another tack might be to make it for moderate-income people."
I have got to be missing something. This building is a challenge because cost-effective rennovations wont deliver high ceilings?
I'm starting to think there is a perception problem - that people will not be interested in making a home at The Grand because of the normal ceiling height. Like, it may be a popuular residential trend with the high ceilings, but it's not manditory for brisk business.
If it's so difficult to "punch a hole" in the concrete floors to make a "modern loft apartment," that's saying to me, these units would be desirable because the upstairs neighbors cannot be heard walking across the room.
UNT Explores Public Law School in Downtown DallasOriginally Posted by tamtagon
University of North Texas Chancellor Lee F. Jackson has announced that the Denton-based university intends to seek approval from the Texas Legislature and the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board to establish a new public law school in downtown Dallas.
State Senator Royce West said he will introduce a bill in the 2005 legislative session that will authorize the UNT System to begin the process of establishing the law school.
State Representative Tony Goolsby, a UNT alumnus, will sponsor a similar bill in the Texas House.
According to UNT officials, the school’s administrators have explored the need for a public law school in the Dallas-Fort Worth area since 1980, when it began developing a law library collection. At that time, the UNT Board of Regents determined that the growing Dallas-Fort Worth area should be the next area in Texas to have access to a public legal education program.
Texas Tech initiated the last new public law school in the state, with law classes beginning in 1967.
The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board studied this issue in 2002 and concluded that the two most underserved regions of the state for legal education are the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area and the Rio Grande Valley, according to UNT officials.
UNT’s chancellor noted that the North Texas area (with a current population around 5.6 million) is the largest metropolitan area in the country without a public law school.
In 2003, the UNT System negotiated briefly with Texas Wesleyan University about the possibility of acquiring the TWU law school. When Texas Wesleyan trustees voted to keep the school, UNT reaffirmed its commitment to create a public law school.
According to a statement issued by UNT, the average private law school tuition in Texas is $19,000 -- more than three times the average public law school tuition.
Sen. West noted that the “goal for the proposed UNT College of Law is to provide opportunities for area students to pursue a first-class legal education at an affordable cost.”
Reportedly, the university is exploring the use of the city’s Old Municipal Building, located at 106 S. Harwood, as a law school site, which Dallas Mayor Laura Miller believes will “be a cornerstone to our central business district and a major asset in our efforts to revitalize downtown Dallas.”
Constructed in 1914, the five-story building served as City Hall until 1978.
Jackson said UNT’s plans will include a professional feasibility study to determine how best to work with -- instead of competing against – the other law schools in the DFW area.
From here: http://www.gadfy.com/projectdetails.asp?id=1
An earnest money contract has now been secured for the purchase of the Dallas Grand Hotel. The hotel is located on Commerce Street and covers an entire city block of downtown Dallas. The hotel has eighteen floors and contains over 500,000 square feet. The property includes the Dallas Library which is adjacent to and connected to the hotel. The hotel was built in the 1950's and has hosted celebrity such as The Queen of England and President Reagan and has provided entertainment by many well know performers including Elvis Presley in its main ballroom which is the largest such facility in downtown Dallas. The hotel will be converted into a new hotel and conference center on the lower levels and into luxury condominiums on the upper floors. The street level will facilitate a variety of restaurants, gift shops, comedy club, executive lounge, and retail and office space. The Gadfy Group is currently organizing a Limited Partnership to accomplish the purchase of the hotel. There are still investment opportunities available for this project.
Owner (Current 2006)
HAMSHER INTERNATIONAL LTD
16/F FAR E CONSORTIUM BLD
121 DES VOEUX RD
CENTRAL HONG KONG, QQ-INTERNATIONAL 00000-0000
Land: + $2,504,280
Market Value: =$2,510,000
Those Houston people dropped their contract last summer. It's still owned by the Hong Kong people who haven't paid any property taxes in a while.
Got to have second thoughts about any business concern actually named "Gadfly".
Ah, I'll modify my map.Originally Posted by clipper
let's hope this come to fruition. the bldg. has huge potentialOriginally Posted by Mephis Gooseberry
See post #112 above.Originally Posted by carousel
I walked by the place today. it looked like every one just ran out and never came back. I wonder how long until its finished. As far as 8ft I don't mind that at all. Most of my life thats what I've lived in. But in the last few years i've been more into the higher ceilings. My SoCo loft has 13-15 ( not sure). Still it would not be a deal breaker.
I heard that this project was canceled and that the company that put down the earnest money is out of the picture…. Last thing that I heard was that the city was deciding whether to save it or demo the building.
Originally Posted by Mephis Gooseberry
Sorry, but this hotel is on;y worth 2.5 million? That is crazy! How much redevelopment does it need?
How can i got about buying it!! I have been hoping to get into large scale realestate.
It's been vacent for 20 years....it need a lot of work!
It's been vacent for 20 years....it needs a lot of work!
I thought it shut down in 2001? Regardless it looks like a ghost town. Ninja my camera should be in this week. We should find a way in and get some pics
I'd be up for going to check it out if you do go!Originally Posted by DallasTT
They are saying the hotel is worth $5,720. It's the land under it that they value at more than $2.5 million.
Wow, it must be in really bad condition? But it can't be in that bad condition, I thought i went in their in 2001? That was only 5 years ago, how bad could it have decayed in that time?Originally Posted by clipper
I'd like to just poke around and see what it looks like now. teh west side of it stinks like death.
Wow! I had no idea there are so many of you out there interested in the Dallas Grand Hotel! I just happened to find this forum string by doing a Google search about the hotel. I've been obsessed for years and have done lots of research.
I'm actually not clear about whether the Gadfy group is still wanting to purchase and renovate the hotel or not. Their web site (gadfy.com) still prominently lists the intent to purchase on the homepage, and they've also recently posted photos of the inside. I've sent several emails about the status but haven't received a reply. With the city, the status of the renovation is offically "on hold." So, who knows.
I called the Dallas Grand Hotel number a few months ago inquiring about a tour of the inside (I'm a novelist currently writing a story that's based in Dallas, and I wanted to envision what it must have been like in its glory days). The local manager called Hong Kong on mybehalf asking for permission - their response was "no" because "the hotel is temporarily closed." Which, of course, is ridiculous - if it were open I'd just walk through the front door.
As to the gentleman who said it's been closed for 20 years: it closed in 2001. From what I've heard, the manager and head chef at the time had been pocketing all the cash brought in instead of reporting it. Also, repairs and maintenance that the Hong Kong office thought were being conducted had actually been ignored for years, further putting the hotel behind. Long story short, they had no choice but to close it. It's actually very sad.
I would love to hear if anyone else has any news.
Probably hobos.Originally Posted by DallasTT
I was in the hotel once for Prom back in I want to say 2000 or 2001. It was quite interesting...first of all we parked in the parking garage across the street (the one with the gold rings that have since been removed) and there were rats everwhere and it smelled horrible! There were protesters outside, so we were very quick to get in the building and up to the ballroom, so I didn't pay a lot of attention to the lobby or the outside of the building. The inside of hotel also had a weird smell to it and you could definetly tell that it needed some TLC. We only went to the 2nd floor to one of the ballrooms and it wasn't bad.
believe it or not, your soco unit only has 10 ft ceilings... weird huh? I was sure it was at least 12 feet until i measured....Originally Posted by DallasTT
Hey guy, I was down that way yesterday. I was photographing the progress on the Merc. I can't beleive the progress on that buiding(The Merc) The Old Grand Is looking a bit run down. I took some photos of it side view and the old restaurant sign and door. Let me know if you and Ninja get in the building.Originally Posted by DallasTT
Here my email
I was looking at the Mercantile Block drawings on that thread, and I noticed directly in front of the Grand is a park or green belt of some kind. Is the old parking garage not part of the hotel property? If someone does re-do the hotel, I'm wondering where the parking will be accomodated(?). Has anyone heard anything about that?
I have not heard that discussed anywhere, and I'm sure it is a significant problem that any future Grand Hotel redeveloper will face. I think the city would be wise to construct a large below-grade garage below the proposed "Main Street Garden" park for use by the general public and for lease by surrounding building tenants. See the Downtown Parks Proposal thread if you are not familiar with this park proposal (post #111 in particular for graphics).
I think Central Parking still owns that 3 story garage and surface lot even though the lot is maintained by someone else. I rented a few dozen spaces from them a couple of years ago when I officed at 1700.Originally Posted by TobyAdams
The hotel originally had 100% valet parking and used the garage across from old city hall. The city is purchasing that whole block and demo'ing the whole shebang for a park. The only place that will be missed is Gus's.
I never understood the rationale behind having such a large hotel with no real off-site parking.
Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
Interesting colors. Was it done by the Easter Bunny gang?
graffiti is highly underrated in this city. It's one of the few things keeping Dallas from being the LA of middle America
I have to agree; we've got some good grafitti around town.Originally Posted by SoCal kid n Dallas
ya the grafitti on our road way signs makes us look like a world class city. I just got back from dubai where I saw no grafitti. Wish we could be the same way.
Probably because they chop your hands off if you do it.Originally Posted by Boredkid
I am for that. Sure there would be a very large drop in crime if you knew if you were caught you would lose a body part.
I guess you would be minus a (lead) foot or two, for the 100+ mph crash on the tollway?Originally Posted by Boredkid
I did not break a law... Or at least I was not caught. So I would still have my feet.
I think vandalism should be punished, but not art. You know, whatever.
It's probably just a matter of time before The Grand gets hooked up some sort of rennovation. I'd like to see it function as a hotel again.
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