Downtown Supergraphics

[gc]

Downtown 'supergraphics' may continue, expand
06/03/2003 - By CHRIS HEINBAUGH / WFAA-TV

The giant signs in downtown may be back for another two years.

They're called Supergraphics - and Monday a City Council committee voted 6-1 to recommend allowing the signs to go up for another two years.

However, some want the rules changed so there can be more. Supporters said the giant nylon prints, lashed to the blank sides of buildings, have livened things up and captured the public's imagination.

"People now know what a supergraphic is," said supporter Michael Anderson.

Next week, the ordinance allowing the signs is up for renewal. One council member who opposed them two years ago still does.

"I personally do not believe that a developer will come in with a building, that he has to build, across the street from a Banana Republic sign," council member Mitchell Rasansky said.

Many other council members like them, though. In fact, one thinks the current limit of five downtown at any one time should be lifted.

"We need to liven up downtown, and I really would like to increase the numbers the numbers we allow," council member Leo Chaney said. "What is it, five? Five? I don't think that's sufficient."

Some business owners agree. Right now, size and building restrictions mean only about ten walls downtown qualify. That and the five-at-one-time limit mean all the business goes to a few.

"No, I don't think it's fair," said property manager Barry Annino. "If you only have five in a big city like this, then there's something that we need to look at."

But the building owner with the lion's share of the business said council members worry about offensive content. So, keeping it within a small group for now makes sure no one's offended.

"It's an infant industry," Anderson said. "We're sort of taking baby steps."

He feels the rules will loosen in time, and more signs will come. But right now many still fear one bad sign could lead the council to bring them all down.

[CTroyMathis]

Downtown Dallas has some seriously excessive amounts of blank walls. They scream for something to beautify their banal existence.

This kinda gets me thinking about the whole 'television city' or 'info plaza/wall' concept... What I mean is, more interactive lit-up tv or marquee displays in areas where many would see them. Not talking about advertising minolta and coca cola per se, but, that would probably go hand in hand with a giant tv screen at the West End xfer... And, maybe some other displays here and there where appropriate. Just thoughts.

[gc]

I couldn't agree more CTroy. I think we started to cover this topic once before. Something similar to Times Square in NY. I know a large tv was brought into the West End during the Big 12 basketball tournament (for basketball of course). It was very exciting to see it. Who knows?

[CTroyMathis]

Okay, I decided that the kid pulling the weight of all transport in the city and anything else that replace/d/s it near the W.E. Xfer Station could be a giant waterwall. I've also always liked the whale mural, but, I've seen the same one in countless cities... any other ideas?

We could probably use all the water (and greenery) features we can get in the more dense urban settings, eh?

[Foucault]

Maybe a giant screen with runway shows from DFI on it. The runway would be in the West End itself.

AND/OR

An enormous fountain that pedestrians could walk through in tunnels and flea-market shop. The attachment gives the general idea; the green represents stalls. Some sculpture or something could be on top of the ring projecting out. The water would run down the sides, and there would be awnings on top of the entrances in which the water would collect and recirculate, just like at the base. Maybe the ring in the middle could be restaurants. There would be jets and decorative accents and stuff on the sides, obviously, but I didn't want to draw that. Maybe there could even be a Farmer's Market official outpost that sold a fruit/vegetable a day.

[sterling]

I vote for all of the above, from waterfalls to Times Square signage. I'd also like to see some of the old painted ads on the sides of some older buildings restored, as sort of a historic continuum/sense of place thing. Not that many exist, but there are enough to add another layer of interest to the other "cutting edge" type things discussed. There are also buildings that would lend themselves to artistic displays of neon (not ads) and some "blank" ones which would lend themselves to projections, moving light patterns and laser displays.

[Foucault]

A MS Paint rendering (Market Plaza would have a lot of greenery around the fountain, BTW)

[F4shionablecHa0s]

Why do ads need to be placed everywhere in this society? Does anyone else miss the murals? I think that we should uncover the existing ones and paint some more. The whale one is a little unoriginal, granted, but the little boy pulling the wagon is awesome.

[rantanamo]

Ads make people money, that's why. Its what our society is good at.

[freewaytincan]

Ads make people money, that's why. Its what our society is good at.

At least it's advertisments for decent products and services. It could be so much worse. It could be a giant ad for Jim Adler.

[texman]

At least it's advertisments for decent products and services. It could be so much worse. It could be a giant ad for Jim Adler.

Jim S. Adler & Associates
The Tough Smart Lawyers

Great slogan eh?

[js]

Ads make people money, that's why. Its what our society is good at.

yea money...

[texman]

I heard this brought up in another thread, but how about one of those gigantic NBC/CNN/FOX screens, say, in the new Victory Development. They could play shows like Good Day Dallas and broadcast news just like in Time Sqaure?

[CTroyMathis]

They will probably do such things as that, as well.

[rjlevins]

I heard this brought up in another thread, but how about one of those gigantic NBC/CNN/FOX screens, say, in the new Victory Development. They could play shows like Good Day Dallas and broadcast news just like in Time Sqaure?

That'd be a good idea for Texas Cable News.

[freewaytincan]

That'd be a good idea for Texas Cable News.

Yes it would. If they really worked at it, they might even be able to do that at their current location.

[texman]

Yes it would. If they really worked at it, they might even be able to do that at their current location.

Where are they currently?

[freewaytincan]

Pretty much across the street form Union Station.

[rantanamo]

I would like each of the 5 stations to have an inner-city neighborhood location. One in the WV, One in Victory, etc, etc.

[Press Box 1]

If all goes according to plan we will be installing a 75' scrolling ticker downtown before long. We recieved an approval from the Landmark commission to move forward!

[rantanamo]

Where? Are you from a news station? Spill the navy beans.

[crescentboi]

YES! SCORE!! That's great news!

[texman]

What is up with all these new members and the great news they bring!?

[crescentboi]

What is up with all these new members and the great news they bring!?

I know and I'm loving it!

[jsoto3]

If all goes according to plan we will be installing a 75' scrolling ticker downtown before long. We recieved an approval from the Landmark commission to move forward!

Press Box 1 is the owner of the new sports bar going into the old Corner Bakery space at the SW corner of Elm & Ervay. This will look great at this location.

[gc]

Press Box 1 is the owner of the new sports bar going into the old Corner Bakery space at the SW corner of Elm & Ervay. This will look great at this location.

I love the idea, but have my doubts given the location.

[effulgent]

If all goes according to plan we will be installing a 75' scrolling ticker downtown before long. We recieved an approval from the Landmark commission to move forward!

Where exactly is this going to be located? I live upstairs from where the Press Box is going (literally, I'm on the second floor of the Wilson in the curved window loft) and would hope that the sign wouldn't be so bright that it kept me up at night. Have you ever seen the episode of "Seinfeld" where the Kenny Rogers Chicken place opens up outside of Kramer's window? That's my worst nightmare.

[crescentboi]

Have you ever seen the episode of "Seinfeld" where the Kenny Rogers Chicken place opens up outside of Kramer's window? That's my worst nightmare

That's actually happening right now with The Davis from the lights at Elm Place. Don't know if it's effecting the Kirby at all, but I'm sure it is.

[effulgent]

That's actually happening right now with The Davis from the lights at Elm Place. Don't know if it's effecting the Kirby at all, but I'm sure it is.

I don't know how people on the south side of the Wilson building can stand it, between the Neiman Marcus lights and the criss-cross ones across the top of the street. Talk about bright! On the up side, it will tone down after January when the Christmas lights go down.

[freewaytincan]

Did they finally light up Elm Place? I was worried when I saw the lights off right after Thanksgiving.

[F4shionablecHa0s]

Yes, Elm Place is now lit up. Some of the lights look a little dirty and the building looks like it could really use some love, but I'm not complaining. Any lights are good. (Except for BofA, which looked amazing with the lights turned off)

[drumguy8800]

Yes, Elm Place is now lit up. Some of the lights look a little dirty and the building looks like it could really use some love, but I'm not complaining. Any lights are good. (Except for BofA, which looked amazing with the lights turned off)

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Elm Place vanished. The lower levels (the arches!) are terrible.. and I think the building is overkill when it's lit. Also, I think that BoA compliments the skyline very nicely and gives it a good distinguishing feature.

[freewaytincan]

Yeah, it's bright, but it's really cool, because it's so bright. Nothing else downtown is like that. In addition, while it may not be your (or my, for that matter) favorite architecture style, it's something that is quickly disappearing with massive renovations of such buildings around the world. I'm not saying they can't change it, I'm just pointing out that it's a very unique building and certainly deserves to stay on the skyline.

[Wineguy2000]

If anyone remembers the Seinfeld episode with Kenny Rogers Chicken and that glaring red neon sign. Kramers apartment looked like the surface of the sun. Well that is what my apartment in the Davis Building is like at night until 12:20 when they turn those lights off.

[freewaytincan]

If anyone remembers the Seinfeld episode with Kenny Rogers Chicken and that glaring red neon sign. Kramers apartment looked like the surface of the sun. Well that is what my apartment in the Davis Building is like at night until 12:20 when they turn those lights off.

Well that's no good, are there no blackout shades/curtains? Considering it's in the center city, I'd think that'd be the case.

Back to the original topic, I finally realized that the IPod ad is actually covering the spot where the kid with the life-size cars in the wagon is.

[dfwcre8tive]

Multistory super graphic ads seen as super eyesores on buildings
12:00 AM CDT on Friday, October 1, 2010
Steve Brown
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.2497106.html

The northeast corner of downtown Dallas' skyline has lots of urban eye candy.

The landmark Arts District buildings, soaring Chase Bank tower and historic Guadalupe Cathedral add to the postcard views.

But what really stands out is the 18-story liquor advertisement on the side of the Sheraton Dallas hotel.

"Absolut Bloody" says the huge display.

Absolutely wretched, say architects who are dismayed at the giant vinyl billboards popping up around town.

"The idea of plastering a 20-story supergraphic on the side of a building that was never intended for that purpose takes away from the character, the texture and the aesthetic of the building," said Mattia Flabiano, principal in the Dallas office of Page Southerland Page LLP. "It was only a matter of time before building facades were looked at as an advertising opportunity.

"With buses, athletes and the Internet covered with graphic advertising, buildings become a larger-than-life billboard."

But unlike a bus or even a highway billboard, these big graphics can overpower the landscape.

Designers say they're in favor of some dynamic advertising that adds to the big-city feel of things.

What would Times Square in New York or London's Piccadilly Circus be like without flashy signs and advertising graphics?

And in Big D, advertising has been a big part of the downtown scene since Mobil Oil's predecessor installed its flying red horse in the 1930s.

But some of the new commercial displays rub building designers the wrong way.

"From an urban design standpoint, I like the vibrancy, color and dynamism that both large static displays and electronic message boards add to an urban environment," said Larry Good, president of architect Good Fulton & Farrell. "It tells us that there are enough people – an audience – to make these advertisements valuable to the advertiser, which is a good thing.

...

Good says he doesn't think the jumbo advertising has run amok in Dallas, but he believes "some of the newer ads are pushing through those limits."

A few cities have already hit that wall with giant displays.

This week, Los Angeles banned additional supergraphics from the sides of buildings in parts of Hollywood.

And tenants in buildings across the country have thrown a fit when the ads were plastered over the windows of their spaces.

Downtown Dallas building tenants were up in arms a few months ago when owners of an Elm Street parking garage cut down large trees that were blocking Nike sportswear displays on the building.

The property owners' quick excuse was that they were just relandscaping the park. New foliage that was put in didn't obscure the sign.

"Placement of brand messaging and media can be very successful when done well and is most effective when incorporated into appropriate venues and situations," said Harold Thompson, vice president with architect RTKL Associates Inc.

"Left unchecked, unplanned, and poorly designed, however, such media advertisements can result in visual clutter that ... may actually confuse the advertising message."

[Mballar]

I don't have a problem with the amount of super graphics Downtown, so far. In fact, I think the one on the side of Sheraton looks better than nothing at all.

[tamtagon]

Just a matter of time, days maybe?, before one or more of the city council tries to make this an opportunity to get some "for the people" attention and campaign against tasteless supergraphics polluting the skyline. Cutting down trees was the true and real time to raise municipal ordinance questions covering street advertising, but that seems to have gone unnoticed by the city council. Maybe the much higher profile issue of supergraphics stir the council.

And just maybe this will get the council members to rethink the well-intended but failed restrictions places on street level business advertising and signage.

[downtownguy25]

Just like dart wraps their buses in ads, buildings should be allowed the same right. It is just another source of revenue for companies. Esp with so many companies hurting, any extra income is great.

[dfwcre8tive]

Just a matter of time, days maybe?, before one or more of the city council tries to make this an opportunity to get some "for the people" attention and campaign against tasteless supergraphics polluting the skyline. Cutting down trees was the true and real time to raise municipal ordinance questions covering street advertising, but that seems to have gone unnoticed by the city council. Maybe the much higher profile issue of supergraphics stir the council.

And just maybe this will get the council members to rethink the well-intended but failed restrictions places on street level business advertising and signage.

Actually, the street level advertising ordinances downtown is pretty good. The Residents Council has been successful in forcing building owners to remove inappropriate content when it covers entire walls at street level.

[mjblazin]

That Absolut sign has nothing to do with downtown vibrancy. It's there to catch the eye of people driving by on 45 and 75. How is it any different than that Clear Channel ad on Woodall that had everybody upset?

I believe in property rights and owners can use property for ads. I just don't see how it makes us more vibrant to have billboards everywhere. Let's call it what it is, people making money, and leave it at that. Maybe we can eliminate the lying statements like that Nike/tree cutting incident. That way I can only guess someone has little moral fiber as opposed to him telling me a lie and confirming my guess.

[vman]

It doesn't really bother me, but I do admit, I wasn't thrilled when the whale mural was covered with the Mexico ad.

[lakewoodhobo]

That Absolut sign has nothing to do with downtown vibrancy. It's there to catch the eye of people driving by on 45 and 75. How is it any different than that Clear Channel ad on Woodall that had everybody upset?

There is a difference between putting a 20-story supergraphic on a blank wall and erecting a billboard that blocks your view of incoming traffic and the Calatrava bridge (love it or hate it). Personally, I like the electronic billboards downtown and wish they would add more. AT&T has a huge blank wall across from the Adolphus that would be great for a news ticker or a giant HD video screen with multiple news channels (perfect advertising for their AT&T U-verse Multiview service).

[dfwcre8tive]

Speaking of billboards...

Advertising firms urge Dallas City Council to allow digital billboards
10:56 PM CDT on Friday, October 1, 2010
By RUDOLPH BUSH / The Dallas Morning News
rbush@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.2498c8d.html

It's been 10 years since the Dallas City Council decided enough was enough when it comes to billboards lining city streets and highways and passed an ordinance banning any more from being built.

Hailed at the time by billboard opponents, that ordinance has since seen a number of exceptions, most notably with the advent of so-called super-graphic signs and video-boards attached to downtown buildings.

But the most significant change to billboard advertising in Dallas is now being quietly debated at City Hall, and it could dramatically affect the number and type of billboards in the city.

Led by the Clear Channel outdoor advertising firm, the local billboard industry has asked the city to craft an ordinance that would permit the raising of digital billboards in Dallas – something that is common in surrounding cities like Irving and Arlington but is prohibited in Dallas.

In exchange, billboard owners would take down some existing signs.

Under a preliminary recommendation by city staff, billboard owners would have to swap three times the square footage of traditional signs for a single digital billboard.

Jake Smith, president of Clear Channel Outdoor for Dallas-Fort Worth, described the swap as a fair way to apply modern technology to billboards while decreasing the overall number of billboards in the city.

"The digital technology is just a way to change copy," he said.

And the new digital billboards would go up only along freeways where existing billboards stand, he said.

Tim Anderson, a Clear Channel vice president, said the switch to digital billboards represents a major opportunity for those who want to see fewer billboards.

"With the trade-off of digital billboards, you'll have three to four times [taken down] over what you would have with attrition," he said.

But critics of billboards are skeptical of the proposal.

Not only do the digital billboards consume an enormous amount of electricity relative to traditional signs, but a 3-to-1 swap just isn't fair to residents who view billboards as obstructive at best and blight at worst, they say.

...

DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AT A GLANCE

Dallas is considering allowing the construction of digital billboards in the city.

THE PROPOSAL:

Billboard companies would have to swap three times the square footage of traditional signs for one digital sign.

Digital billboards could go up only on freeways where existing billboards stand.

Digital billboards would have to display only static images for at least eight seconds.

Proponents say digital billboards would:

• Result in fewer billboards overall.

• Allow for the display of public service messages.

• Bring modern technology to the industry and make it easier to change copy.

Opponents say digital billboards:

• Use enormous amounts of power relative to traditional signs.

• Are too valuable to the industry for a simple 3-to-1 swap.

• Should not be allowed until the government determines if they distract drivers.

[wilme2]

I don't have a problem with the amount of super graphics Downtown, so far. In fact, I think the one on the side of Sheraton looks better than nothing at all.

The Sheraton ad has just changed - now it is for a Tablet PC. But am I wrong that is was previously unlighted, and is now lighted??

Maybe it is just the fact it is now white and reflects more light, but I think it now makes the whole downtown skyline garish when looking from the east. I am no longer in favor of Supergraphics due to the lighting issue.

[dfwcre8tive]

Have opinions shifted concerning the Supergraphics, or are they still the same? There are some ideas going around to expand (once again) the number of ads allowed (even allowing them over windows/architectural elements).

I'm personally against them and feel we're selling downtown's identity to a few building owners wanting to make quick money. While I'm open to some of the video projections, video screens, etc suggested in the Downtown Dallas 360 Plan, how much is too much?

[jrd1964]

Does anyone else miss the murals? I think that we should uncover the existing ones and paint some more. The whale one is a little unoriginal, granted, but the little boy pulling the wagon is awesome.

I was scared the little boy was gone for good with the advent of the booze ads and the Dr Pepper one, but yay, the little boy and the wagon are back!! AFAIC/IMHO, the ad guys can go mess up some other building, leave the the little kid alone....