There's a feature on WNYC's "thetakeaway" about it. Thought I'd share, it's only 6 minutes but interesting conversation I thought. You can listen here by clicking on "listen":
http://www.thetakeaway.org/archives/2008/05/29/3
Or go straight to the audio file:
http://www.thetakeaway.org/files/mpl...&autoPlay=true
I know this isn't the first time such a thing has been proposed so sorry if it's been discussed before or if it's not relevant. I'm not an advocate just thought it was interesting and that I'd share and see if anyone had any thoughts on what the positives and negatives of "free DART" might be...thought it'd be interesting to hear other's thoughts...I can see several positives and negatives.
The downside is that the service becomes a 24-hour haven for anyone who just wants to get "off the street". These people end up "hoarding" the service...just taking up seats all day for the heck of it, making it a less appealing option for everyone else.
Free Public Service for that Free NBA Tittle the league gave them when Dallas was about to run away with the series. All in all, who cares about Miami?
I know the honor system method of fare capture if pretty effective, but doesn't the DART system already lend itself to free riders/loaders? I have a hard time seeing how it could be THAT much worse if it were made free. Of course, with the rail network more or less at capacity during peak periods, I'm not sure that free fares would necessarily promote all that much more ridership (nor would it be all that desirable in a Tokyo-like stuffed train carriage).Originally Posted by palchik
At least in DART's case, this is a non-starter anyway since they're floating the idea of fare box bonds around the bond community as a way to pay for their future debt/construction needs. The merits of that idea aside, I think that means DART will be charging some kind of fare for A LONG time to come.
DART would lose HUGE sums of money if all services were free. Fare-box revenue isn't the only issue. Theres also all the contracts that DART has with the likes of TI, El Centro, SMU, AT&T, etc...where those companies pay for passes for ALL of their employees or students (no matter how many actually ride). Yes, they do get the passes at a discounted rate, but when you break it down by price per actual RIDER (not just pass holder), its a pretty good deal for DART. All those contracts go away if the system is free.
We've discussed the supposed "freeloading" on the trains before -- DART's conclusion (and mine, but not everyone's) is that very few people ride the train without paying, and the revenue to be realized by 100% compliance would be dwarfed by the expenses required to enforce it.
As for free rides as a concept: no way. Not because of financial concerns, but because of human nature. Does anyone remember the disastrous Dallas Cowboys parade fiasco a few years back? DART dropped fares that day for the event, and anyone with nothing to do hopped on the bus to go downtown. Unfortunately, people with nothing to do during the day tend to have developed a poor sense of social responsibility, and there was an outright riot. I don't remember how many people were hurt. If I recall correctly, the city and DART decided almost immediately that there would be no more free rides to any events.
It goes back to a lesson I've learned the hard way, by watching people close to me enter a downward spiral: For most people, if you don't earn something, it has no value to you. Some people (I hope I'm one of them) honor a gift as much as if they worked for it themselves, but that's not part of basic human nature. I've seen people who could get a job stop even trying, once those monthly checks start coming. And the same thing applies to the bus -- if you paid $3 to get on the bus, or even 50c, you're going to act differently than if you were just sitting around with an empty alcoholic beverage container wondering what to do with your life today.
Though that does leave an open question: how does MATA make it as a free service? I would guess it's because it serves a very specific, very affluent area. When the streetcar system is expanded to serve more diverse areas, I'm sure it will require payment.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
The MATA system is what makes me wonder if it can't work...I've always wondered why DART didn't do certain days or events for free, now I know. I'd think that it would at least get people in the system for the first time. They could find out that it's perhaps not as bad as they thought and become returners. Perhaps if gas prices go above $5 or $6 a gallon after the green line is completed...
It does not get cold in Miami. Every cold day in Dallas (remember people were wearing scarves and jackets less than 4 weeks ago) would bring in a load of people just riding all day. I already see it in small amounts on the very early morning rail. When the enforcement teams arrive at normal rush hour, those passengers leave. In Miami, it's probably more fun to sleep on a beach in January or June than ride a bus. Unfortunately, we have to let our lowest denominator drive our actions.
Austin has free bus service via the Dillos, which are renditions of old trolley cars. I'd guestimate that 50% of the ridership is smelly bums. Not that the normal (pay) Austin bus system is a haven for model citizens but they certainly aren't quite as smelly. I don't know that most of the bums ride it just for the heck of it though. They generally seem to have a sense of purpose, like they actually have somewhere to be (ie need to panhandle, get booze, or act looney). Regardless, it definitely detracts from the service for those who aren't bums.
BTW, if I was a bum in Miami I would want to ride the bus at times just to get some A/C.
In what way did Austin's, um, fringe population detract from the service? I rode buses exclusively when I was there for the Democratic convention, and it seemed like *everyone* rode the bus. Not that there were any fewer people in cars, but Austin's ridership was a cross-section of the city, from the probably-homeless to UT students to the same variety of folks you'd see if you watched the traffic go by on I-35.
Austin definitely had more folks sitting on the street, but the experience for me was much more positive than in Dallas. Dallas panhandlers are aggressive, even (or especially) with the anti-panhandling ordinances. Austin's on-street residents just seemed to be chillin', often with a dog at their side. They were just part of the background.
I can see how that would be strange for a Dallasite, though. When you see someone homeless in Dallas, you have to go on yellow alert and put shields up, ready for the inevitable request for money and abuse if you say no. If you take those assumptions to Austin, you'd be paranoid all the time. It took a day for me to make the adjustment.
An Austin aside... while riding the bus back to my friend's house, I ran into none other than Dallas mayoral candidate Jennifer Gale! According to The Austinist, she (if someone calls themselves "Jennifer", you should address them as "she") actually ran for Austin mayor before coming to Dallas. But her return to Austin apparently hasn't been happy... she's looking forward to returning to Dallas. I suspect part of the reason is that she kinda likes attention, and she just doesn't stand out in Austin. She'd rather be back in Dallas, where people still look.
One other note about Austin: their bus is cheap, but not free. A dollar buys you a day pass (good for 24 hours, not just the rest of the day). That's enough to remind you that it's not a free service (except for the Dillo circulators), but not so much that you can't find a few quarters in the street and buy a few hours of air conditioning.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
They stink.In what way did Austin's, um, fringe population detract from the service?
Did you ride the dillo? Perhaps it is where I am riding it from, which is from near UT campus to downtown and back. Also, I tend to take buses at night (when not many classes are going on) or on the weekends. In these cases, around 50% of the Dillo riders are homeless and very few students ride. There arent' as many homeless on the regular busses but the makeup is definitely not a cross-section of the Austin population (during school hours, i'm sure it's mainly students though).I rode buses exclusively when I was there for the Democratic convention, and it seemed like *everyone* rode the bus.
BTW, i agree that the Austin bums are not agressive but they still stink and the Dillo has poor ventilation for it.
I didn't ride the Dillo that goes through the UT campus -- I was on the #7, which also goes through the middle of campus, so my sample may have been skewed. I did ride the Silver Dillo, which goes way into East Austin, and did some shopping at the H-E-B (got a mask and snorkel so I could check out Barton Springs -- OMG have you seen the size of those crawdads!?).
I would tend to put the blame on those crappy "trolley buses", which DART wisely dumped a while back. They're noisy, bouncy, cramped, uncomfortable, and as you noted, poorly ventilated. They should burn 'em all, rake up the ashes, and burn 'em again.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
^ perhaps the fact that you were wearing a snorkel and mask is the reason you didn't notice the stinky bums.
Cap Metro downsizes the number of 'Dillo routes
http://www.news8austin.com/content/h...215611&SecID=2
"Fewer 'Dillo trollies will roll around downtown Austin streets starting in August, as Cap Metro cuts the 'Dillo back from five routes to just two. "
"Cap Metro will also consider charging a fee for 'Dillo rides. " <--- get rid of stinky bums
:2lol: :roflmao2: :2lol:
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
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