The State Fair of Texas

[RobertB]

I just got this message from the State Fair of Texas mailing list, so it seems like a good time to open up a thread on one of Dallas' biggest yearly attractions.

"LET YOURSELF GO"
AT THE 2005 STATE FAIR OF TEXAS
(STATE FAIR OPENS SEPTEMBER 30 - OCTOBER 23, 2005)

Howdy, Folks! This is ol' Big Tex inviting you to check out the State Fair of Texas web store -is openin' for business as of August 1, 2005. Buy your State Fair coupons and admission tickets in advance at www.bigtex.com. It's fast, easy and convenient - just click and buy.

It looks like the advance purchase tickets are a good deal. If you order online before September 6, you get a big savings over even the Kroger discount tickets -- though it gets eaten up by the $6.95 minimum shipping (2-day FedEx).

Season Pass: Regular $39.95, Kroger $29.95, online $29.95
The Season Pass also includes a ticket to Six Flags during Holiday In The Park, and a Sun-Thurs Cinemark Theatre ticket.

Food & Ride Coupons: Regular Price $10.00 for 20, online $9.00
I can't find anything that tells how much the rides will cost this year, but 20 tickets won't get you very far on the midway, and the food prices are as expensive as you'd expect at an "event". But if you win the lottery, remember that you can buy up coupons and use them at future State Fairs (at least, you used to could).

Advance General Admission: Regular Price $13.00, Kroger $11.50, online $9.95
Kids under 48"/Seniors over 60: Regular Price $9.00, online $6.95

No discount for parking, though... it's going to be $9 each time you drive into the gates. DART rail doesn't arrive until 2009, but there will probably be weekend flyer service from Cityplace Station like last year. The flyer page from 2004 is still available, and will probably be updated with this year's information soon.

There's also a combo Fair/Arboretum ticket for $21, and you get two bonus Cinemark tickets if your total order is over $100. That's not too tough a hurdle -- one day's worth for my bunch (6, and we're all over 48" tall) with admission and a book of coupons for each would total $113.70. That's why we may not make it this year.

To round things out, here are some stats from bigtex.com:

* Fair's economic impact on Dallas: approx. $350 million annually.
* Exhibit space: approx. 370,000 sq. ft. in six buildings.
* Amusement rides: 70-75.
* 212-ft. Texas Star is the tallest Ferris wheel in North America.
* Livestock entries: approximately 8,000.
* Creative Arts entries: approximately 7,000.
* Food service locations: approximately 200.
* Ride & food revenues: $23 million (2004).
* The Texas-OU football game has been played during the Fair every year since 1929.
* Big Tex made his first State Fair appearance in 1952.
* Corny dogs were invented in 1942 by State Fair concessionaires Carl and Neil Fletcher.
* Since 1992, the State Fair of Texas Scholarship program has awarded more than $1.5 million in new and renewed college grants to eligible students.

[columbiasooner]

Ahh yes the annual Red River Ass Kicking is only 2 months away! Boomer Sooner!

[rantanamo]

Would Oklahoma explode if it lost the only thing it has going for it.

[Columbus Civil]

the only thing it has going for it

[rantanamo]

I repeat my statement.

[Columbus Civil]

http://www.okdreamhomes.com/

[RobertB]

http://www.okdreamhomes.com/

If you've ever driven along Belt Line Road in Irving and looked on the west side, south of the railroad tracks, you'd realize that Oklahoma ain't got nothin' on DFW in terms of homes with the wheels on.

How's a Texas divorce like a tornado? Someone's gonna lose a trailer.

[RobertB]

By the way, I'll take your

and raise you two:

[Columbus Civil]

FURB

[RobertB]

FURB

*lol*

[columbiasooner]

Dallas losing its grip on Texas-OU game



Schools could end agreement after 2007


07:21 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 16, 2005

By CHIP BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

Since 1929, the Texas-Oklahoma football game has been as much a part of the State Fair of Texas as corny dogs and Big Tex. There is a very real chance, however, that Texas and OU could be playing their last game at the Cotton Bowl in 2007 before taking their Red River rivalry back to the campuses.

The issue surfaced last week when both schools announced a new sponsorship agreement with SBC Communications Inc. for their annual October clash.

The length of the contract with SBC – three years – coincides with a clause Texas and OU have to opt out of their agreement with the city of Dallas to play at Fair Park. The current deal runs through the 2008 game but with a chance to opt out after the 2007 game.

Colleges Tell Us: Where should the Red River Rivalry be played?

11/30/04: Miller vows Cotton Bowl upgrades to keep valuable college games

More Colleges



"The decision whether to opt out after the 2007 game would probably need to be made about a year in advance," Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds said. "Oklahoma athletic director Joe Castiglione and I are having conversations with our staffs about it and trying to decide where Dallas is with our game and what the Cotton Bowl stadium is going to look like in 2008."

There are several factors that will determine if Texas-OU remains a tradition at the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair. Foremost is whether the 75-year-old stadium will be improved.

"I don't think the University of Oklahoma is sitting here saying that we want gold-plated hand rails," Mr. Castiglione said. "But if you go sit in that stadium and see its condition, you'll see that there has to be some improvements.

"Turn it around. They want this game in Dallas. What are they offering to us? If the stadium is not in good enough condition to hold the game, what choice do we have? But we would rather not wait until the last year of the contract to make that decision."

State Fair of Texas president Errol McKoy said Tuesday he forwarded a $26 million proposal to renovate the Cotton Bowl to Dallas Mayor Laura Miller and the City Council a year ago.

Ms. Miller said Tuesday she was committed to keeping Texas-OU in Dallas and also attracting more games to the Cotton Bowl. Public bonds would almost assuredly fund major Cotton Bowl work, she said.

Ms. Miller said last November that city officials would get the money to improve the Cotton Bowl and would seek a longer contractual commitment from Texas and OU.

Mr. Dodds and Mr. Castiglione said Tuesday they were not aware of a renovation proposal and hadn't heard from the city about extending their contract.

"This is the first I've heard of it," Mr. Dodds said. "But it's not our decision to tell Dallas what to do to improve the stadium. It's our decision what to do with the game based on the facts we'll have at the time."

Mr. McKoy said the proposed renovation could be done by the 2007 game and would increase seating to more than 80,000 (from its current capacity of 75,000). There would be remodeled concession stands, improvements to the interior and exterior, a new scoreboard, a new sound system and new field lighting as well as resurfaced streets and walkways.

"When it's finished, the stadium will look as nice as the ones in Austin or Norman," Mr. McKoy said. "We feel $26 million will get the job done."

Mr. Dodds has said if improvements aren't made to the Cotton Bowl, he would favor going to a home-and-home series. Mr. Dodds said he wouldn't favor moving the game to the Cowboys' new stadium in Arlington – expected to be ready for the 2009 season – because the State Fair is the basis of the game's tradition and the reason for playing it in Dallas.

Mr. Castiglione has declined to comment on the future of the game beyond 2007. He said OU president David Boren and the school's board of regents would have to approve any decision to move the game.

"The schools, they're thinking home-and-home," said Dallas City Council member Leo Chaney, who represents the Fair Park area. "It's disheartening to me. We'll need to do something."

UT and OU officials signed the current contract to play their game in Fair Park under the assumption the Cowboys' new stadium was going to be built near the Cotton Bowl.

Even Ms. Miller admitted at the time that both schools were eyeing the new Cowboys stadium as a destination for their game.

"This facility is not what they want for the long term," Ms. Miller said of the Cotton Bowl when the five-year agreement was announced in March 2004.

Mr. Castiglione said: "At the time, the State Fair grounds was a prominent site that appeared to be very high, if not No. 1, on everybody's list. ... That's why we weren't making any long-term plans for the Cotton Bowl."

But the deal for a new Cowboys stadium in Dallas fell through.

UT and OU officials are watching carefully to see if the SBC Cotton Bowl Classic will stay at the Cotton Bowl once the Cowboys finish building their new stadium. The Cowboys' new facility will have a retractable roof, which would eliminate inclement weather as a detraction.

"That's a tell-tale piece of the puzzle, if the Cotton Bowl game decided to go somewhere else," Mr. Dodds said. "That would say something."

SBC Cotton Bowl president Rick Baker has declined to discuss the future of the bowl game beyond 2007, when its current contract in Fair Park expires.

The Cotton Bowl has already lost events and fan traffic this year with the departure of Major League Soccer club FC Dallas, which now plays at a smaller, soccer-specific stadium in Frisco.

Mr. McKoy said his proposed $26 million renovation to the Cotton Bowl is important to keep games such as Texas-OU and Grambling-Prairie View in Dallas as well as attract new games. Mr. McKoy said Texas A&M and Texas Tech are serious about moving their series to the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair beginning in 2007.

"Notre Dame has been looking to schedule a regular-season game at the Cotton Bowl to help their recruiting in the Southwest," Mr. McKoy said. "We also have been a premier venue for soccer games, including the World Cup in 1994. And we've also been a destination for major concerts. For all those reasons, it's a wise investment by the city to renovate the Cotton Bowl."

The future of the Texas-OU football game at Fair Park appears to depend on it.

Staff writers Brian Davis and Dave Levinthal contributed to this report.

E-mail chipbrown@dallasnews.com

[St-T]

I would rather UT/OU go to home-and-home then to leave to Jerrington.

[Lakewooder]

It's very sad that a 75-year tradition means nothing to the money-grubbing materialism of those entrusted to continue the legacies created by the classy gridiron greats of the past...

[Columbus Civil]

It's very sad that a 75-year tradition means nothing to the money-grubbing materialism of those entrusted to continue the legacies created by the classy gridiron greats of the past...

True.

But it's also sad that the Cotton Bowl/Fair Park was allowed to fall into such disrepair.

[mikedsjr]

I think its sad that people are getting bent out of shape because their tradition of the game here is being torn "from you".

Traditions change. Dallas isn't willing to put the cash up that they really need for that delipatitated stadium. The emporer doesn't come out and watch people getting killed by lions there anymore. Its great for tradition sake, but once the game is not played in that specific stadium its a different game anyway.

To me, the tradition includes the stadium and that stadium deserves far more than a makeover. Its needs to be blown up with a carpet bomb and rebuilt. But Laura thinks other things are more important. And there is nothing wrong with that.

So now Dallasites have thrown their bitterness at the fact that their stadium sucks to hoping Jerryworld doesn't get it. Seems to me that this is as equally bad as the money grubbers you claim to be moving this game.

[Milkman Dan]

Deloss said straight up in the article: the reason the game is played in Dallas is the festivities surrounding the state fair. It will not be played in Jerryworld. This is not a moneygrubbing issue either Lakewooder - the Cotton Bowl is a dump. Are the 2 universities just supposed to tough it up for another 75 years with the yearly sewage leaks from restrooms, 100-yard long concession lines, and 6" wide seats?

I would hate, HATE to see this game moved to a home and home, as would most UT/OU fans. So would the athletic directors. But if it does happen, I will place the blame on the correct group: The Dallas "Can Do City" Leaders who think a few fancy bridges will somehow have a greater economic impact on Dallas than this 75 year old tradition which brings in tens of millions into the local community and gives Dallas national exposure, something it really needs more of (and not the FBI investigation type of exposure). I think Dallas will find some way to fund the millions in repairs for the CB, but this just shows the level of general incompetence at City Hall - I love the Laura Miller quotes saying "Everything is moving along as planned" and the quotes from the AD's - "We haven't heard from anyone at the city in many months" Another nail in the coffin of Dallas being a city that has much relevance outside of North Texas.

[Columbus Civil]

The Dallas "Can Do City" Leaders who think a few fancy bridges will somehow have a greater economic impact on Dallas than this 75 year old tradition which brings in tens of millions into the local community

From my understanding, no additional money was spent by the City for these bridges other than money that would be spent to replace these with standard TxDOT bridges (which had to be done anyway because of their age). The rest of the money came from private donations.

[RobertB]

From my understanding, no additional money was spent by the City for these bridges other than money that would be spent to replace these with standard TxDOT bridges (which had to be done anyway because of their age). The rest of the money came from private donations.

Bogus argument, sorry. If there are X dollars available for donation from the private sector, then it is the responsibility of the city's leaders to direct those private-sector dollars towards projects that will have the greatest long-term impact. There's room for debate over whether pretty bridges or bigger locker rooms should have priority over new parks and public spaces, of course. But whether you think it's well-spent or not, just saying "well, it's private donations, it's not like the mayor/council/whoever had anything to do with it" is a cop-out.

[Columbus Civil]

True!

[St-T]

I love the bridges--but I could have lived with having just one fancy nice bridge and then a big new Cotton Bowl!

[carousel]

Texas-OU headed out of town?



Schools may opt out after '07 if Cotton Bowl isn't improved


07:13 AM CDT on Wednesday, August 17, 2005

By CHIP BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

The Texas-Oklahoma football game is as much a part of the State Fair of Texas as corny dogs and Big Tex. There is a very real chance, however, that Texas and OU could be playing their last game at the Cotton Bowl in 2007 before taking their Red River rivalry back to the campuses.

The issue surfaced last week when both schools announced a new sponsorship agreement with SBC Communications Inc. for their annual October clash, a State Fair staple since 1929.

The length of the contract with SBC – three years – coincides with a clause Texas and OU have to opt out of their agreement with the city of Dallas to play at Fair Park. The deal runs through the 2008 game but with a chance to opt out after the 2007 game.

Colleges Tell Us: Where should the Red River Rivalry be played?

SportsDay Speak: Chip Brown on the rivalry's future

Miller vows Cotton Bowl upgrades to keep valuable college games (11/30/04)

More Colleges



"The decision whether to opt out after the 2007 game would probably need to be made about a year in advance," Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds said. Oklahoma athletic director "Joe Castiglione and I are having conversations with our staffs about it and trying to decide where Dallas is with our game and what the Cotton Bowl stadium is going to look like in 2008."

Several factors will determine whether Texas-OU remains a tradition at the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair. Foremost is whether the 75-year-old stadium will be improved.

"I don't think the University of Oklahoma is sitting here saying that we want gold-plated hand rails," Mr. Castiglione said. "But if you go sit in that stadium and see its condition, you'll see that there has to be some improvements.

"Turn it around. They want this game in Dallas. What are they offering to us? If the stadium is not in good enough condition to hold the game, what choice do we have? But we would rather not wait until the last year of the contract to make that decision."

State Fair of Texas president Errol McKoy said Tuesday that he forwarded a $26 million proposal to renovate the Cotton Bowl to Dallas Mayor Laura Miller and the City Council a year ago.

Ms. Miller said Tuesday that she was committed to keeping Texas-OU in Dallas and also attracting more games to the Cotton Bowl. Public bonds would almost assuredly fund major Cotton Bowl work, she said.

Ms. Miller said in November that city officials would get the money to improve the Cotton Bowl and would seek a longer contractual commitment from Texas and OU.

Mr. Dodds and Mr. Castiglione said Tuesday that they were not aware of a renovation proposal and hadn't heard from the city about extending their contract.

"This is the first I've heard of it," Mr. Dodds said. "But it's not our decision to tell Dallas what to do to improve the stadium. It's our decision what to do with the game based on the facts we'll have at the time."

Mr. McKoy said the proposed renovation could be done by the 2007 game and would increase seating to more than 80,000 (from its current capacity of 75,000). There would be remodeled concession stands, improvements to the interior and exterior, a new scoreboard, a new sound system and new field lighting as well as resurfaced streets and walkways.

"When it's finished, the stadium will look as nice as the ones in Austin or Norman," Mr. McKoy said. "We feel $26 million will get the job done."

Mr. McKoy said the State Fair spent $5 million to upgrade the Cotton Bowl before last year's game, adding 4,000 seats and renovating restrooms, concession stands and the press box.

No interest in Arlington
Mr. Dodds has said that if improvements aren't made to the Cotton Bowl, he would favor going to a home-and-home series. Mr. Dodds said he wouldn't favor moving the game to the Cowboys' new stadium in Arlington – expected to be ready for the 2009 season – because the State Fair is the basis of the game's tradition and the reason for playing it in Dallas.

Robert Black, a spokesman for Texas Gov. Rick Perry, said the governor would leave the decision up to school and Dallas officials.

"Wherever the game is, the governor believes the great rivalry that has been going on for almost 80 years will continue," Mr. Black said.

Paul Sund, communications director for Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry, said the governor was interested in the game's future.

"This has been a great tradition in Dallas that he'd like to see continue, but he's going to be supportive of what the university wants to do and what is in the best interest not only of the University of Oklahoma, but also the state of Oklahoma," Mr. Sund said.

Mr. Castiglione has declined to comment on the future of the game beyond 2007. He said OU president David Boren and the school's board of regents would have to approve any decision to move the game.

"The schools, they're thinking home-and-home," said Dallas City Council member Leo Chaney, who represents the Fair Park area. "It's disheartening to me. We'll need to do something."

UT and OU officials signed the current contract to play in Fair Park under the assumption the Cowboys' new stadium was going to be built near the Cotton Bowl.

Even Ms. Miller admitted at the time that both schools were eyeing the new Cowboys stadium as a destination for their game.

"This facility is not what they want for the long term," Ms. Miller said of the Cotton Bowl when the five-year agreement was announced in March 2004.

Bowl game's future
UT and OU officials are watching carefully to see if the SBC Cotton Bowl Classic will stay at the Cotton Bowl once the Cowboys finish building their new stadium. The Cowboys' new facility will have a retractable roof, which would eliminate the threat of inclement weather.

"That's a tell-tale piece of the puzzle, if the Cotton Bowl game decided to go somewhere else," Mr. Dodds said. "That would say something."

SBC Cotton Bowl president Rick Baker has declined to discuss the future of the bowl game beyond 2007, when its current contract in Fair Park expires.

The Cotton Bowl has already lost events and fan traffic this year with the departure of Major League Soccer club FC Dallas, which now plays at a smaller, soccer-specific stadium in Frisco.

Mr. McKoy said his proposed $26 million renovation to the Cotton Bowl is important to keep games such as Texas-OU and Grambling-Prairie View in Dallas as well as attract new games. Mr. McKoy said Texas A&M and Texas Tech are serious about moving their series to the Cotton Bowl beginning in 2007.

"Notre Dame has been looking to schedule a regular-season game at the Cotton Bowl to help their recruiting in the Southwest," Mr. McKoy said. "We also have been a premier venue for soccer games, including the World Cup in 1994. And we've also been a destination for major concerts. For all those reasons, it's a wise investment by the city to renovate the Cotton Bowl."

The future of the Texas-OU football game at Fair Park appears to depend on it.

Staff writers Brian Davis and Dave Levinthal contributed to this report.

E-mail chipbrown@dallasnews.com

QUOTE BOARD
"Even if you don't like football, you have to like money. The schools' alumni really like coming to Dallas, but the bottom line is still money. We need to have more seats in the stadium. We need upgrades."

— Craig Holcomb, executive director for Friends of Fair Park and a former City Council member.

"We're trying to attract new games to the Cotton Bowl. This is an economic engine for the city."

— Leo Chaney, City Council member who represents the Fair Park area.

"This is and will continue to be the place to play college football. We're talking about keeping huge football games during the State Fair. They're not going anywhere. We will get the money, make the improvements and ask the teams for a longer commitment. And I think we're going to get it."

— Dallas mayor Laura Miller at a news conference last November overlooking the Cotton Bowl field.

[Columbus Civil]

I'm wondering if a complete redo of the Cotton Bowl would be worth the money. So far they only have three annual football games there, and it will be tough to attract more stuff there when they're competing with the Cowboys stadium. I think it might be too late to save the Cotton Bowl now

[tamtagon]

I think Dallas will find some way to fund the millions in repairs for the CB, but this just shows the level of general incompetence at City Hall - I love the Laura Miller quotes saying "Everything is moving along as planned" and the quotes from the AD's - "We haven't heard from anyone at the city in many months" Another nail in the coffin of Dallas being a city that has much relevance outside of North Texas.

I also think the city will find the money. And agree city hall has blinders with regard to Fair Park venues. Like, how can the local politicians consider the job done just because a great train system and great city park are under construction. Fair Park's midway should be open through out the year - because it's fun. The stadium should be so bad-ass everyone wants to play there - so those living in Dallas can have fun with the atmosphere created by the specticle. Sure, having a nice stadium that would attract big college football games and maybe some big soccer games adds to the economy of the city, but it the primary function of Fair Park Venues is to create an atmosphere that city residents can enjoy - and people in Dallas like sports.

Man, the mistake of neglecting Fair Park sure does filter into a lot of other topics!!

The State Fair has always been one of my favorite events in Dallas. I always wondered, can you buy a 'season pass' that'll get you in everyday? Not like I would go every day, but I love riding the ferris wheel (I think it's time upgrade that too, it should be the biggest in the world and operate year round....). Taking pictures at the state fair has always been one of my favorite things, too. I love watching all the different people.

I blame Oklahoma University for missing a David Bowie concert one year, I only got to see NIN. This year, I cannot wait for the sooners to walk off the field all disappointed and stuff.

I wish the State Fair came with a rodeo, too. Looking at the animals is worth a visit, to me, but there have been occasions when a gallon of cheap beer and the aroma of a pig barn was an explosive combination -- not for me, of course, I can hold my booze. I feel bad for the pigs because I'm sure they get embarassed and annoyed by bewildered drunks.

[tamtagon]

I'm wondering if a complete redo of the Cotton Bowl would be worth the money. So far they only have three annual football games there, and it will be tough to attract more stuff there when they're competing with the Cowboys stadium. I think it might be too late to save the Cotton Bowl now

Should the stadium condition meet 2005 expectations, the Fair Park environment would be enough to attract a football game on every Fall weekend. Some of those big games take three days: half a day to play the game, and two and a half to wind up/down. The exhabition halls, pretty buildings, esplanades and gardens inside the park create a world class venue.

The Cotton Bowl should have a big time college football game every weekend during the State Fair. TX/OU, Tech/A&M, Somebody/Somebody, if you want a spectacle, then play your football game during the State Fair of Texas.

[Columbus Civil]

So would an extra two or three football games make the investment worthwhile?

[RobertB]

The State Fair has always been one of my favorite events in Dallas. I always wondered, can you buy a 'season pass' that'll get you in everyday? Not like I would go every day, but I love riding the ferris wheel (I think it's time upgrade that too, it should be the biggest in the world and operate year round....). Taking pictures at the state fair has always been one of my favorite things, too. I love watching all the different people.

Check post #1

[tamtagon]

Check post #1

doh!

[RobertB]

In an attempt to move the discussion back to the fair itself (The Cotton Bowl isn't really offtopic, but it has its own thread), I offer this tidbit. Remember, the theme of this year's fair is "Let Yourself Go!" -- this seems to fit the theme a bit *too* well, don't you think?

http://www.bigtex.com/newsroom/stori...cornydogs.html

3rd Annual World Corny Dog Eating Championship

Sunday, Oct. 9 at 1 p.m. -- Chevrolet Main Stage

* Contestants must be 18 yrs. of age or older.
* Selected participants will receive two free tickets and a parking pass to the State Fair of Texas (for Sunday, October 9).
* Approximately 15 contestants will vie for the title of the World Champion of Corny Dog Eating.
* Competition will determine who can eat the most corny dogs in 10 minutes.
* Sponsored by John Morrell & Company (makers of the wieners used in Fletcher's Corny Dogs)
* Winner's trophy provided by Fletcher's Corny Dogs (which also provides the corny dogs for the contest).

PRIZES:

* 1st place -- $500 + two roundtrip tickets* on Southwest Airlines
* 2nd place -- Two roundtrip tickets* on Southwest Airlines
* 3rd place -- Season pass for the 2005 State Fair of Texas

* Tickets are good for any destination within the continental U.S.

The World Champion of Corny Dog Eating is sponsored by: John Morrell & Company and KISS-FM.

Click here if you're interested in participating and give us your eating qualifications and/or tell us why you think you're a potential corny dog eating champ!

Contact: Public Relations, 214-421-8715 or pr@bigtex.com.

[Milkman Dan]

So would an extra two or three football games make the investment worthwhile?

I think the millions in business / hospitality revenue, sales tax revenue, and most importantly a NATIONAL STAGE FOR THE CITY would absolutely make it worthwhile. Especially if those morons from college station and lubbock end up moving their series to Dallas and the CB (they aren't interested in Jerryworld either)

Laura Miller thinks that Dallas should be known for more than their football teams and events - that is true, LM, but ask around the US and Dallas is either known for the Cowboys or JFK. We need to use that (sports town / cowboys) as an advantage and stop trying to force some idiotic culture of "can't we appreciate the beauty of architecture that $30 million buys?" down everyones throats like its the most important issue Dallas has or will ever have seen. You aren't that imporant, Laura, in the grand scheme of things.

[ksig121]

So would an extra two or three football games make the investment worthwhile?

What I think that you are missing is that those two or three football games involve names that have deep tradition and a great traveling fan base. Imagine a TX/0U type atmosphere just about every weekend of the State Fair along with the the tax dollars that all of those revelers bring. (I know that I'm not the only one on this forum that has gone out to the Fair with a budget and come home deeply in the red.)

What you also get is national exposure for the city. Not to mention that an improved Cotton Bowl and Fair Park could draw a lot of events to the metroplex. Could you imagine having a Super Bowl going on in Arlington and a huge national convention going on in Dallas at the same time?

I think that when most people in Dallas think about sports venues, they think more along the lines of Texas Stadium, The Ball Park, or Reunion Arena. What we have learned from those projects is that there must be adjacent development to really make the venue and economic driver for a city. Look at Victory and Frisco. The same could happen in Fair Park.

The great thing about Fair Park is that most of the infrastructure is already in place or is in the process of being added. Dallas can't afford to drop the ball on this.

[UrbanHope]

I love the bridges--but I could have lived with having just one fancy nice bridge and then a big new Cotton Bowl!

Me too!

[rantanamo]

3 new bridges and a new Cotton Bowl. Their funding has nothing to do with each other unless the feds are gonna pay for the Cotton Bowl in the next transportation bill.

[RobertB]

I love the bridges--but I could have lived with having just one fancy nice bridge and then a big new Cotton Bowl!

Don't forget a trolley line.

And a pony, while we're at it. Don't forget to ask for a pony.

[Milkman Dan]

3 new bridges and a new Cotton Bowl. Their funding has nothing to do with each other unless the feds are gonna pay for the Cotton Bowl in the next transportation bill.

When I mentioned the bridges, the funding wasn't the issue - I understand TXDOT was going to replace them anyways, etc etc. My point was that all of LM (and many city staff's) attention has been focused on that TRP and especially the bridges. Too much attention IMO, and other, more worthwhile issues have been ignored or set on the back burner. Just like the AD's said, they haven't heard from the city in months. Is LM working desperately behind the scenes night and day to secure funding for CB improvements? Hahahaha

[trolleygirl]

I always ask for pony.

I was thinking about entering my world-famous melt-in-your-mouth fajitas in the Fair this year, but I read the rules and they say that you have to list ALL ingredients and the recipes become sthe property of the State Fair. Why would would I want to divulge my secret recipe for a $15 prize??

To the Cotton Bowl and budget- I'm looking at the budget I picked up from the budget town hall meeting last night and it's got $1 million for the Cotton Bowl. And it includes a four-year study. Going back to Trinity bridges, looks like we've got $78 million in federal transportation funds for the second and a portion of the third.

Priorities. I'm also reading the DMN Editorial this morning about where the City Council places its priorities. They are, in order: public safety, economic development, staff accountability, neighborhood quality of life and the Trinity River Project. The budget is not mirroring the council's priorities when we are speding more on Priority # Five than the ones before it.

[Agnus Dei]

This thread has unearthed my sadness at not getting to see the Dixie Chicks at the Cotton Bowl/State Fair performance in 2002. Stupid education always got in the way.

*throws self off Ferris wheel*

I might to go the fair this year. I haven't been in a while, but I think it's time to go back. It's not as fun as I remember it as a kid, but it's still pretty interesting. Plus I love Fair Park. We had a field trip there in grade school and learned aobut some of its history. It made me really appreciate the place.

[trolleygirl]

I saw Lucinda Willimas a few years ago. She was drunk outta her mind and sounded like crap.

[Agnus Dei]

The last time I saw Lucinda she was really stoned, but sounded amazing (even if she forgot some words and freaked out a bit).

[rantanamo]

I believe the Cotton Bowl's redevelopment is paramount to economic development. Take away TX/OU and tell me how this revenue is replaced.

[columbiasooner]

Yeah and I don't believe that the contract for the Cotton Bowl and the opt out year for OU/TX both being 2007 is a coincidence.

[Columbus Civil]

Just turn the damn thing into a mercado.

[rantanamo]

or the world's largest disco.

[RobertB]

or the world's largest disco.

Wouldn't work... noplace to hang the disco ball. Just one more reason to make it a dome!

[trolleygirl]

Just turn the damn thing into a mercado.

Ha! Like the old K-Mart at I-30 and Buckner........those Buckner Terrace neighbors are still complaining about that. Guess they didn't shop at K-Mart enough. Hey at least now there's some kinds of center of commerce.....

[columbiasooner]

Fair, Dallas need UT-OU more

Longhorns, Sooners will manage just fine if game goes to campuses


11:01 PM CDT on Thursday, August 18, 2005


Straight up: The Cotton Bowl is a dump. A decaying canyon of concrete, it doesn't need bricks and mortar as much as a couple of mortar shells.

Concourses are too narrow, stench too wide. Can't hardly swing a dead rat without hitting a woman waiting in a restroom line. And before you get up from your seat, you've first got to get your knees surgically removed from the guy in front of you.

No wonder Texas and Oklahoma threaten to pull out. The last time tenants put up with similar conditions, Steve McQueen went over the wire.

And they're getting out, make no mistake about it. Unless some influential boosters chirp up and chip in, Texas-OU will play its final Fair date when the contract runs out in two years.

And what then? Only the end of the greatest annual sporting event in Texas history.

Move it to Jerry World? Hard to get the same ambience over in Arlington. Besides, DeLoss Dodds says they wouldn't do that to Dallas.

A home-and-home series is more likely. And it's not hard to see why: The schools wouldn't have to divvy up the loot with the locals.

Once upon a time, money and amenities weren't such an issue at the Cotton Bowl. We were poorer but happier. Also smaller, but with bigger bladders.

Tradition wasn't something you needed to quantify back in the day. But life moves on. The bills for our materialistic lifestyles mount.

Hey, someone's got to pay for the new turf in the indoor practice facility, or how else do you keep up the arms race in college athletics?

Makes you wonder if they'd stay even if the Cotton Bowl got a facelift and expansion.

And what are the odds the place gets everything on its punch list? Officials swear that $26 million would do it. Once the greasepaint is smoothed over, the president of the state fair even said the ol' Cotton "will look as nice as the ones in Austin or Norman."

Cultural cross-reference: Michael Jackson heard the same pitch from his plastic surgeon as they studied abstracts of Diana Ross.

Anyway, $26 million just isn't what it used to be. Not when you're talking stadium renovations. Couldn't even get you two years of Chan Ho Park.

Of course, these threats would be moot if the Cowboys and the city of Dallas had worked out a deal. They could have razed the Cotton Bowl and put up a place with a roof to attract BCS championships, Final Fours, Super Bowls, the works, and not only would a critical area of the city be instantly revitalized, Dallas would be a major player in national sports instead of a third-rate attraction behind Houston and San Antonio.

But it's all water under the Calatrava bridges, or at least that's what they tell us.

All you can do is hope for a champion. Someone or some group to come to the Cotton Bowl's rescue. Exert some pressure on their schools. And it won't be easy, for all the reasons listed above.

So why go to all the trouble? Because there's no other sporting event in the state like Texas-OU.

The quality of the rivalry certainly helps. But so does the history, the corny dogs, the midway, the players coming down the tunnel, Big Tex over the top, partisan fans split right down the middle.

No other major venue in Texas has the same panache, smelly or not. Most of the rest sit hard on the highways, drab and colorless, little more than huge blisters on the horizon.

Location matters, as Dallas learned when it failed to make a real pitch for a baseball stadium in the Farmers Market area.

Ameriquest Field is beautiful. Arlington certainly deserves it for all the work officials put in.

But there's a reason urban parks are all the rage. Boston faithful don't worship at Fenway Park because it's old. Wrigley Field isn't beloved just for its ivy.

They're both integral to the fabric of those cities. The Cotton Bowl may be a ratty knot in Dallas' fabric, but a knot, nonetheless.

Don't think I'm a sentimental boob about stadiums, either. Did I complain when the Mavericks and Stars moved out of Reunion?

Did I stand in front of the wrecking ball at Arlington Stadium?

Do I mind if Irving turns Texas Stadium into condos?

No. But come the second Saturday of October and there's no game out at the State Fair, don't expect any huzzahs because the restroom lines are short.

E-mail ksherrington@dallasnews.com

[rantanamo]

Before spending big big bucks, I would of course get gurantees. I still haven't seen much from Dodds about absolutely wanting to leave Dallas. Most of the talk has been from OU. If OU wants to vacate so bad, why not renew the Arkansas rivalry. Those guys hate us too. I think it would be pretty awesome.

[columbiasooner]

Texas played Arkansas the last 2 years. Lost 2 years ago and should have lost last year.

It's not that OU wants out of Dallas, the Cotton Bowl is disgusting. There is no way the teams will give any firm commitment to the City of Dallas and LaMiller. $26 million will no where near come close to what the schools are looking for and not to mention that I think that it would be a hard sell to the voters.

The game will be moved to the new Cowboy stadium in 2007 or 2008 for these reasons:

1. Texas and OU have a unique opportunity to play in North Texas and this is huge for recruiting.
2. The luxury boxes. The big boosters want nothing more than to say that they have a luxury box for the OU/TX game.
3. Improved stands and restrooms. Have you ever sat in a sold out crowd in the Cotton Bowl? The seat numbering is way off (#1 starts in the middle of the row) and if you sit down your knees burrow into the back of the person in front of you. Don't get me started on the restrooms.
4. Price. Due to the increased seating and the location of Arlington the overall price of the trip will drop dramatically for those coming in from Austin and Norman. More people will start staying in hotels in Fort Worth and thus dropping the price for hotel rooms. (Don't forget about the city owned new convention center hotel going up.)
5. Retractable roof, parking, and tailgating area. There is none at the Cotton Bowl.

[rantanamo]

Texas played Arkansas the last 2 years. Lost 2 years ago and should have lost last year.

So what? They are a big, old rival that plays in a major conference. I'd rather lose early than be oustered by a poll for not playing anyone.

It's not that OU wants out of Dallas, the Cotton Bowl is disgusting. There is no way the teams will give any firm commitment to the City of Dallas and LaMiller. $26 million will no where near come close to what the schools are looking for and not to mention that I think that it would be a hard sell to the voters.

The game will be moved to the new Cowboy stadium in 2007 or 2008 for these reasons:

1. Texas and OU have a unique opportunity to play in North Texas and this is huge for recruiting.
2. The luxury boxes. The big boosters want nothing more than to say that they have a luxury box for the OU/TX game.
3. Improved stands and restrooms. Have you ever sat in a sold out crowd in the Cotton Bowl? The seat numbering is way off (#1 starts in the middle of the row) and if you sit down your knees burrow into the back of the person in front of you. Don't get me started on the restrooms.
4. Price. Due to the increased seating and the location of Arlington the overall price of the trip will drop dramatically for those coming in from Austin and Norman. More people will start staying in hotels in Fort Worth and thus dropping the price for hotel rooms. (Don't forget about the city owned new convention center hotel going up.)
5. Retractable roof, parking, and tailgating area. There is none at the Cotton Bowl.

If you would simply listen to your own AD, you'd know its not an totally an issue about the stadium. Its about bringing the type of revenue Dallas gets to Norman and OKC. Its about not playing the game in Texas every year. He continues to say it over and over. Unless Jerry is going to compensate Norman and OKC, I don't see how you move the game to Arlington. On the other hand, Dallas has the game now, and more compelling reasons to keep it.

If you listen to UT's AD, its not totally about the stadium either. Dodds seems to be more along for the ride, because if OU doesn't sign for the game, then he has no rivalry and simply must accept the league mandated home and home. He has stated several times that he will not take the game to Arlington. He also has an overwhelmingly huge and wealthy alumni base saying to not move the game or go home and home.

The writing is on the wall. Fix the stadium up and offer big incentives or the games go home and home. Neither have stated a desire to go to Arlington. It simply does not jibe with what the game and rivalry is all about. The city though, cannot hinge whether to fix the stadium up and dome it, based on this game alone, but should look at the season as a whole. Can you afford to not have the extra revelers staying in downtown hotels and eating downtown during the holiday season? If LM thinks Dallas can, then she is being mistakenly arrogant. You can't build all of these hotels(of which she wants to add a huge white elephant type) and have no big events for people to use them for. I know the sports naysayers out there are waiting in the wings to try and blow any attempt up and say losing such events is ok, but I will say that you are helping the decline of Dallas. You are insuring that people stay out of our city, and that exposure to the good things in the city are at a minimum.

[columbiasooner]

I agree, the game is critical to Dallas but I don't see it staying. I spoke to Castiglione at the Sooner bandwagon event 2 months ago and I really believe that he wants to keep the game at a neutral site. I think his talk is just rhetoric trying to get the best deal possible. Yes home games in Norman bring in a ton of revenue, but I think the City of Arlington and Jerry Jones will make an offer that neither school can refuse. You take the neutral site out of the game, then it just becomes another rivalry game, and neither school wants that.

[Milkman Dan]

but I think the City of Arlington and Jerry Jones will make an offer that neither school can refuse. You take the neutral site out of the game, then it just becomes another rivalry game, and neither school wants that.

Dodds has already said we aren't interested in playing in Arlington. Period. I believe JC has said something similar - it's cotton bowl for the fair festivities or its a home and home.

The fair is the only reason Dallas has this game in the 1st place - it's not an excuse just to get out of town for the weekend - Arlington would have nothing to offer.