Reply With QuoteIntriguging article really. I've been to Belmar, it is pretty nice. They are building a fairly bad attempt at an town center in Colorado Springs (First and Main), but nothing can beat a true downtown area's charm.Originally Posted by palchik
Intriguging article really. I've been to Belmar, it is pretty nice. They are building a fairly bad attempt at an town center in Colorado Springs (First and Main), but nothing can beat a true downtown area's charm.
Wow, really interesting. I see it happening just like that. I will almost relish the day when Frisco is like that, abandoned suburban homes, Stonebriar will be shuttered and filled with vagrants, lol. Unfortunately Ikea will also share the same fate there. Maybe they wouldl relocate to a downtown store? That would be pretty cool.
I hope you are not a student or faculty in the School of Management at UT Dallas.
Sadly, he is.
BarbulaM1, you hit the nail on the head.
A true friend stabs you in the front - Oscar Wilde
This isn't really about the death of suburbia, more its evolution:
A Mission to Make Suburbs, Well, More Like the City
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/ny...yt&oref=slogin
Consumers are not [the same as] citizens, and when a system pretends that they are, peculiar and even perverse things happen to decision making and democracy... - Benjamin Barber
http://realestate.msn.com//article.a...2112>1=35000
Is the age of the suburb over? 4 key demographic trends
Some experts say shifts in the desires of several groups mean that America’s great reurbanization lies ahead.
Last edited by Mark Lea; 18 February 2010 at 06:04 PM.
I think we'll see a slow down in the suburban expansion by acres covered, but no the death of suburbia. Homebuilders in the next building booms will have a new buzzword: "Rowhouse."
Didn't see this till now, but why does it matter? Is my intense disdain for suburban living a problem for you?
Don't be surprised by the slowdown of suburban growth ala Frisco and McKinney. Real estate development is trending towards townhouses and condos, pedestrian friendly development. Even the big homebuilders are starting to experiment with higher density housing developments. It's just what the new generation demands.
If there is going to be any tremendous future growth in "suburban" type development, it will be in walkable "town center-like" suburbs. Oak Cliff was/is a suburb, but it was built with the planning and transportation infrastructure to allow a lifestyle where a car wasn't necessarily needed to get to stores/restaurants and the like. I've always wondered if it would be possible to build brand new "streetcar suburbs," maybe not in Dallas, but maybe in a metropolitan area that is in early growth stages and has centralized areas of employment. Maybe a place with a large industrial park, which could have streetcars running to a massive residential/commercial development. A lot of these new mega developments have HOA fees, so maybe those could be utilized to run and maintain the system.
But, the trends may be cyclical. Who knows, suburbs may make a comeback later on, just don't expect me to living anywhere near one.
When you are married, have two children of school age, can't afford private school or one of the limited neighborhoods with good public schools, and your children missed the cut for magnet, maybe your perspective will change.
There's an article in the latest Economist that talks about the US increasing in population by 100 million people by 2050. The article mentions much of this growth will take place in the interior of the country, with metros such as Atlanta, Phoenix, Dallas and Houston seeing significant growth.
I moved to DFW from NYC, where I lived and worked in the inner city. I could not see myself living in the NYC suburbs away from most of the metropolitan economic activity and nightlife. I guess here in DFW, there is significant activity all over because the metro as a whole is seeing significant growth and the density of central Dallas is not that much different than the DFW suburbs. (not like Manhattan versus Long Island)
As a side note, here's some data that came out a few days ago. (http://www.portfolio.com/interactive...ealth-centers/) It shows Frisco to be the wealthiest city in Texas and 27th in the US. (when ranking municipalities over with 75,000 people) I don't see an affluent city like Frisco dying anytime soon considering the demographics show a large percentage of educated professionals in their 30's. However, things could change if the city fails to become truly sustainable before the population ages. In the case of Frisco, the city leaders and planners seem to be preparing for this by making sustainability part of the city's master plan. It seems that most of the suburbs that are dying around the country are cities that boomed when young families moved in, then busted when those families aged and moved out.
Yeah, that's great for now. I'm not going to lie, I think Frisco has some really aesthetically appealing parts to it. But give it 15 years. Those tract houses aren't going to look so good then. Then 30 years, etc. The same things Frisco has going for it now are the same things places like Plano had going for it when they were young cities. And now Plano is losing its draw, especially in the eastern parts. Then, people will be moving to the next ring suburb, and the inner rings will continue to deteriorate. How is this sustainable? How will Frisco, which some people think is the greatest thing since sliced bread, change things?
I'm just not convinced that Frisco-style development can be sustainable. It has differentiated itself by having a nice employment center near 121 and North Tollway, but I don't think that's enough. The majority of people living there probably have long commutes. Highland Park, University Park, and the M Streets may be desirable because they are close to the city and are fairly dense.
I don't see the logic that since people might be reluctant to move further outward, they'll move inward, back into the city. The outer suburbs are not full. While some suburbs may see some housing degradation, it's not like palaces are beckoning them from the city. I'm not saying it's worse, just not better. Those people will likely stay in place and change the suburbs. They won't be returning especially if we don't improve our schools.
The Park Cities have some desireability because of being close-in, but the real source of market interest is they have their own school system. The residents have complete control over the schools and the wealth to finance them making residents more confident to use public schools. Lakewood to some some extent has control over where its children go to school and reaps those benefits. You can say that attitude is wrong, but it's a real world fact that drives markets.
If commutes get too long, then businesses will follow their workers to the suburbs, not visa versa. Remote offices or telecommuting would increase. Don't pray for higher gas prices or increased congestion to drive people into the city. Those elements would more likely drive commercial firms out of the city to follow employees and customers.
I live in the city and enjoy it. We need to be more realistic of what trends will really do.
That study does not really show wealth. How much do they folks owe on their homes? What is the size of their 401K and other investments? How much are they paying for cars and gas? Sure they have a nice (semi - nice) income - for now. A lot of those people transfer every few years or hop jobs when they are able - which does not lend itself to amassing wealth.
OTOH most folks I know around here live without mortgages (homes avg almost $500K in M-Streets and $550K in Lakewood)- can walk to many places or take a bus or DART if they really must and have huge shade trees and lots of windows if we have a real energy crisis.
Besides magnets - there are a lot of good and excellent elementary schools all across Dallas. Some of the middle schools are bad, some are iffy and some are ok overall but serve their top students very well. The high schools are all being redesigned and there is a choice element so that it's going to be increasingly common to transfer to a school which offers something the student wants. AP, Dual Credit are common in the northern and eastern schools and my alma mater is offering pre-IB this fall to the new ninth graders - some of which will be out of the attendance zone.
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