2008 Elections

[dfwcre8tive]

Obama holding rally at Reunion Arena in Dallas
08:01 PM CST on Monday, February 18, 2008
From staff reports
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...y.70ff155.html

A site has been finalized for Barack Obama's Wednesday rally in Dallas.

Reunion Arena will host the event, which is free to the public. No tickets are required. Doors open at 10:30 a.m., and the program is scheduled to start at noon.

Mr. Obama's Texas tour begins Tuesday with stops in Houston and San Antonio.

His Dallas campaign office officially opens Tuesday.

Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign office officially opened Monday.

Both candidates are locked in a tough battle for Texas, which could determine the Democratic nomination.

Gromer Jeffers Jr.

[dfwcre8tive]

Hillary Rodham Clinton to host rallies Friday in Dallas, Fort Worth
04:34 PM CST on Thursday, February 21, 2008
From Staff Reports
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....1578e6ab.html

Hillary Rodham Clinton will host get-out-the-vote rallies on Friday in Dallas and Fort Worth.

She is scheduled to address the public and supporters from 9:30-10:45 a.m. at 400 S. Zang Blvd. in Dallas.

She will then travel to Fort Worth, where a rally is scheduled for 11:45 a.m.-1 p.m. at Main and 1st streets downtown.

[concretist]

Having watched him tonight on Letterman, my two chief impressions: one, he gets tangled up in his own words in the fashion characteristic of a hyperintellectual who thinks far faster than he can speak; and two, he's better than we deserve.
I do think he tends to be gracious when it is not necessary but I would rather see that instead of the rude behavior I see from the other side. Will class show? Hard to tell.

Also: he's complimenting Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, and George W. Bush. Too damn nice?

[RobertB]

I'm very wary of starting a specifically political debate, so I won't be surprised if this thread gets locked at some point...

... but I will say that my biggest worry at this point is that Obama is indeed being too nice. Take the ridiculous "lipstick on a pig" controversy. Conservative commentators have been harping on "political correctness run amok" for years, but McCain runs an ad implying that "lipstick on a pig" is a sexist slur? If Rush Limbaugh were dead (not just brain-dead ), he'd be spinning in his grave.

I hope to hear something strong from the Obama campaign right after today's 9/11 commemorations, possibly including McCain's description of Hillary Clinton's health care proposals. McCain said of Hillary's proposal, to raucous applause, "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."

[Mballar]

Regardless of the silly little controversies that will continue to pop up over the next 7 weeks, the difference between the two candidates' positions is stark. I think people will become more focused on the issues our country is facing once the debates begin.

[ksig121]

Regardless of the silly little controversies that will continue to pop up over the next 7 weeks, the difference between the two candidates' positions is stark. I think people will become more focused on the issues our country is facing once the debates begin.

I agree with you. You can already see that some people are tired of the BS. The debates will decide this election. Just like they do every cycle.

[concretist]

Why is it that those few candidates with genuine ability, vision, and a moral conscience never make it off the bench when it comes to the big contest? This election provides some fine examples, including Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Bill Richardson, Mike Huckabee, and even Tom Tancredo (perhaps a one-trick pony, but a one-trick pony with ethics). The only one who was actually judged somewhat fairly by the electorate and found wanting was Mike Huckabee. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich, intellectual giants of the campaign who could not be bought, were held to constant ridicule and scorn by their own parties and the representatives of a status quo who fear everything they represent. When folks like Bush and McCain dive into the gutter to talk trash and launch unfair attacks upon their opponents, their supporters think it's clever and cute. Later they shrug it off as politics as usual.

It couldn't possibly be that we get the very assholes we wholeheartedly deserve, could it?

[RobertB]

Well, there's always the third parties. Ron Paul even held a rally in Atlanta to call the two-party system (which he and Kucinich have joined, because they want to at least get *something* done) a "charade". The four most notable third-party contenders were to join Paul on stage: Ralph Nader (independent, 'cause the Greens wouldn't have him), Cynthia McKinney (Green Party), Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party), and Bob Barr (Libertarian Party). Except that Barr couldn't allow himself to be on the same stage as the Greens' McKinney, so he ditched Paul's shindig and held a news conference of his own.

Maybe they're not ready for prime time after all.

[Mballar]

I heard Michael Savage say something interesting the other day. He said that Democrats like Obama because he's "exotic." I certainly never heard that one before.

[Tnekster]

Sarah Palin to visit Dallas on Oct. 3

07:38 PM CDT on Thursday, September 11, 2008
By GROMER JEFFERS JR. / The Dallas Morning News
gjeffers@dallasnews.com

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is scheduled to visit Dallas on Oct. 3 for a fundraiser and possibly a public rally.

Since becoming the Republican nominee for vice president, Ms. Palin has electrified the GOP base and helped John McCain surge in the polls. Local Republicans on Thursday were ecstatic that she’s coming to town.

“It’s a huge opportunity for Palin to be introduced to the people of Dallas who have seen her on television,” said Jonathan Neerman, chairman of the Dallas County Republican Party.

Ms. Palin will participate in a lunchtime fundraiser at the Fairmont Hotel. Tickets will cost $1,000 a plate. The top level being asked for host committee is about $57,000.

The money is being raised for the Republican National Committee.

Mr. McCain has opted for public financing for the general election campaign and does not have to raise campaign funds.

Mr. Neerman said he would try to get Ms. Palin to attend a separate event to introduce her to county Republicans who are not donors.

“We want her to do something with our grass-roots activists,” he said.

The Oct. 3 event, which will be one day after the vice presidential debate, would be Ms. Palin’s first trip to Texas since attending a Republican Governors Association meeting in Grapevine last April

[concretist]

I see us leaning towards fascism as much as socialism, with our allowing our rights to be abrogated in the name of security. Here in the USA, I see conservatives as more than willing to support 'the right to keep and bear arms', but reluctant to support free speech and habeas corpus, especially if those rights conflict with their conservative beliefs.
I believe for every individual who would vote reflexively for a D, there is an individual doing the same for an R. If you don't believe me just come to the restaurant at my country club, Mussolini himself could get their votes if he had an R next to his name.
The dumber the citizenry the easier to scare them into giving the government power with nebulous security threats and scare mongering tactics.
I would not be all that surprised to see one skull and bones club "OZ" behind the curtain controlling both the wicked witch of the D's and the wicked witch of the R's, immune from any retribution as we in the general public tilt at the straw man windmills he has set up for us.
I won't be getting on either the D ship or the R ship for fear of someone on the dock yelling to me on the gangway "it's a cookbook".

[eirin]

Oh how I yearn for a parliamentary system. Republicanism has caused me great ire. Give me more representation for each issue any day.

[Tnekster]

Oh how I yearn for a parliamentary system.

So move to a country that has one.

[eirin]

So move to a country that has one.

So you would encourage Americans with a passion for reforming an outdated, gridlocked system to leave?

That's not a very smart proposition for the nation's future. A country founded with a revolutionary spirit should never turn its back on its heritage. Now, I am fine with the Legislative branch being as it is, but a two party system has gotten us nowhere. One party dominates, does what it wants (or doesn't get anything done due to the filibustering minority party), and then another party dominates and the same thing happens. With multiple parties forming coalitions, more can be achieved.

Hell, if some Democrats or some Republicans, or even Independents joined forces, more could get accomplished. If we can at least have that here...

[psukhu]

Sarah Palin to visit Dallas on Oct. 3

The State Fair will be going on. What are the chances she'll visit The Dallas Museum of Natural History or The Science Place?

[frankchitown]

I gave up SNL years ago, but tuned in tonight just to see Tina Fey's performance as Palin. I think Tina does Sarah better than Sarah herself. Hopefully Tina won't be needed anymore after November.

[concretist]

Dan Quayle with lipstick?

[frankchitown]

I wonder how many Sarah Palin drag queens are going to be at the Cedar Springs block party this Halloween.

[Tnekster]

Hell, if some Democrats or some Republicans, or even Independents joined forces, more could get accomplished. If we can at least have that here...

Seriously? So what, in your mind, needs to be accomplished?

[Mballar]

Dan Quayle with lipstick?

[IMG][/IMG]

This one's better.











[IMG]

[Spjz]

Seriously? So what, in your mind, needs to be accomplished?

Haven't you heard, both parties are preachin change. So if we have two choices, who between the two of them have had a government monopoly since who knows when, then logically we must vote for this guy.

[eirin]

^ Damn, he's not on the ballot. :O

Not that writing him in would do any good. (That is the problem with the system - here are your two choices, now choose or lose).

[Spjz]

^Let me try and cheer you up a little. Our government is a mere reflection of our collective personal lives. We are in debt, our government is in debt. We take little personal accountability, our parties blame each other for government's short comings and failures. We have our hands out, the government is right there to put something in them.

[Tnekster]

^Let me try and cheer you up a little. Our government is a mere reflection of our collective personal lives.

That's about right.

[eirin]

^Let me try and cheer you up a little. Our government is a mere reflection of our collective personal lives. We are in debt, our government is in debt. We take little personal accountability, our parties blame each other for government's short comings and failures. We have our hands out, the government is right there to put something in them.

Wow, that's a really good point.

[RobertB]

... for fear of someone on the dock yelling to me on the gangway "it's a cookbook".

WTF? You lost me there.

[concretist]

WTF? You lost me there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI

[psukhu]

^Let me try and cheer you up a little. Our government is a mere reflection of our collective personal lives. We are in debt, our government is in debt. We take little personal accountability, our parties blame each other for government's short comings and failures. We have our hands out, the government is right there to put something in them.

Good point. Don't forget that the average American's level of global knowledge is poor. (geography, history, politics, economics, etc). Most Americans think we rank #1 globally in personal freedom, economic freedom, freedom of press, government transparency, health care, education, etc ...when this is in fact far from true.

Could this poor knowledge of the world outside the US be related to our foreign relations policy and our government's poor standing in the international community?

[concretist]

Questions for Sarah Palin:

• You present yourself as a Republican maverick that took on your own party's corrupt political establishment. In November's election, your party is running an indicted U.S. Senator, Ted Stevens, who is awaiting trial on charges he accepted more than $250,000 of unreported gifts from the state's most powerful lobbyist. Will you vote for his opponent? Will you urge Alaskans to help you change Washington and vote him out of office? If not, why not?

• Why have you reneged on your earlier pledge to cooperate with the Alaska Legislature's investigation into Troopergate?

• In spring of 2004, the Daily News reported that you cited family considerations in deciding not to try for the U.S. Senate: "How could I be the team mom if I was a U.S. senator?" What was different this time as you decided to run for vice president?

• McCain spokesman Rick Davis told Fox News the media didn't show you enough "deference." How much deference do you expect to get from Vladimir Putin or Hugo Chavez?

• Considering your Pentecostal creationist beliefs:

Does god bless all pipeline projects, or is he/she fairly selective?

Was the burning bush a metaphor or an allegory?

How do you say Gott mit Uns in American?

Does evidence suggest that Jesus had a saddle, or did he ride dinosaurs bareback?

[RobertB]

You had me until the end, but the knee-jerk Christian bashing doesn't do a damned (heh) thing to help promote a pro-science agenda -- which I, as a Christian myself, fully support. If she says God told her to drill in ANWR, then that's fair game. But leave the poor dinosaurs out of it. Won't someone please think of the dinosaurs?

Stick to concrete questions, or you're being no better than Rush turning "Liberal" into a four-letter word ("lbrl", perhaps?)

Edit: Jesus couldn't have ridden a dinosaur, because they weren't on the Ark, silly.

[downtownguy25]

While we are at it, lets toss this in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

[frankchitown]

While we are at it, lets toss this in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

It's fun pulling quotes out of context, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVn59TC2QqM

[eirin]

^ Don't forget that the fundamentals of the economy are strong, but I'd figure that'd be so for the inventor of the Blackberry.

[concretist]

You had me until the end, but the knee-jerk Christian bashing doesn't do a damned (heh) thing to help promote a pro-science agenda -- which I, as a Christian myself, fully support. If she says God told her to drill in ANWR, then that's fair game. But leave the poor dinosaurs out of it. Won't someone please think of the dinosaurs?

Stick to concrete questions, or you're being no better than Rush turning "Liberal" into a four-letter word ("lbrl", perhaps?)

Edit: Jesus couldn't have ridden a dinosaur, because they weren't on the Ark, silly.

The individuals and their church going habits are of less concern than the influence of the Christian Fundamentalists upon their positions. I am sure you can see which candidate they are aligned with, and that is a negative for me. I do not believe you can be the republican nominee without pandering to that constituency, and I believe them to be more dangerous to America than any "socialist" threat of Mr. Obama's policies.

As far as a pro-science agenda, I too hope that technological advances in stem cell research will allow us to use alternate sources for the stem cells that do not require a moral choice. Even though I do not see it the same way as those of opposing views, pragmatism dictates that a source that meets the needs of the research without the moral dilemma is in everyones interest. Sadly the research in this area may be delayed by the confusion caused by doctrine falsely given the same weight as science.

[Tnekster]

Libertarian Bob Barr moves to keep Obama, McCain off Texas ballot

01:30 PM CDT on Thursday, September 18, 2008
By CHRISTY HOPPE / The Dallas Morning News
choppe@dallasnews.com

AUSTIN – Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr is forcing a legal showdown in the Texas Supreme Court to keep the names of Barack Obama and John McCain off the November ballot.

The issue is whether both parties missed a state deadline to certify the names of their presidential and vice presidential candidates for the ballot. The attorney general is arguing the law was followed and that the secretary of state has discretion on the ballot and its appearance.

Mr. Barr personally filed an emergency request before the court on Thursday, asking that the state be ordered not to mail ballots overseas this weekend until the issue is legally resolved.

“We are here today to establish very clearly that there is at least one political party out there that stands for the rule of law,” said Mr. Barr, a former Republican congressman from Georgia who was a leader in the Bill Clinton impeachment.

The Libertarians are contending that the Democratic and Republican nominees are disqualified from appearing on the ballot because they missed the state’s Aug. 26 deadline to certify candidates. During the national conventions, Mr. Obama was not voted as the nominee until Aug. 27 and Mr. McCain claimed the GOP nomination on Sept. 3.

No one can legally certify something that has not yet happened, Mr. Barr argued. In addition, Sarah Palin was not named to the GOP ticket until Aug. 29 and so it would be impossible to certify her name by the deadline.

The Libertarians claim that both major parties knew of the late conventions and did not go to either the Legislature or the courts to seek a remedy.

The Supreme Court has refused to dismiss the case outright and has asked all parties to file their response to the lawsuit by Monday.

Part of the legal basis for the suit is Bush vs. Gore, by which the U.S. Supreme Court held that “the clearly expressed intent of the legislature must prevail,” and that election laws must be uniformly applied and interpreted.

“Sound familiar Mr. Bush? Sound familiar Republicans?” Mr. Barr said, adding that the state law is unambiguous.

“The Libertarian Party like other parties and independent candidates always face a struggle to get on the ballot and are sometimes excluded from the ballot for the most minor of details,” said state party chairman Patrick Dixon. “We may not like the rules, but we have to play by them.”

Both the Democrats and the Republicans said they have taken the necessary steps to have their candidates on the ballot.

“Quite frankly, I find it very ironic that those in the Libertarian Party, who have in the past been champions of ballot access, are now making attempts to limit that access here in Texas,” said Democratic Party chairman Boyd Richie.

“It is clear this is a politically motivated stunt by Bob Barr and his party, and a desperate attempt by a candidate to obtain media coverage,” he said.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....8b61581c.html

[tamtagon]

^I love it! The Republican and Democratic Party Leaders need strong dose of the real world. The political parties are too wrapped up in doing what it takes to retain power and influence and have forced too many important local actions into the municipal hinterland all for the sake of controling National politics.

[RobertB]

“Quite frankly, I find it very ironic that those in the Libertarian Party, who have in the past been champions of ballot access, are now making attempts to limit that access here in Texas,” said Democratic Party chairman Boyd Richie.

“It is clear this is a politically motivated stunt by Bob Barr and his party, and a desperate attempt by a candidate to obtain media coverage,” he said.

At the Texas Demcratic Convention, Boyd Richie represented everything that is WRONG with the two-party duopoly. He ran the show, of course, which would not in itself be bad (by contrast, the Greens want to please everyone, and have chaos). But to ensure his continued stranglehold on power, he printed thousands and thousands of flyers, bumper stickers, campaign signs... for a party office! Any candidate for an actual public office would have given his opponent's right arm to have half that budget.

If I understand correctly, Richie is able to to tap into unrestricted "soft money" corporate funds, possibly from the dozens of companies that paid big bucks to get access to the movers and shakers. It wasn't even covert; it was blatant. Signs all over the place trumpeted the corporations who "made the convention possible". It was nearly enough to make me go running down Sixth Street and not stop until I got to Whole Foods Market.

As for the lawsuit... it would be only fair if neither Obama nor McCain were included on the Texas ballot. I've gathered signatures for the Green Party and for Kinky Friedman (and even sent in a few Strayhorn signatures), and let me tell you, the rules make it darn near impossible for anyone outside the entrenched power structure to get a toehold. I'm not saying there's no difference between the parties, but they share a common goal: divide the pie two ways, and fight over who gets the bigger half.

The arbitrary deadlines and other ridiculously high barriers to the ballot were intended to freeze out the third parties, who need more time to organize and have less funds to do so. When we've filed suit against the system's systematic process of disenfranchisement, the courts have told us "that's the law, if you don't like it, talk to your legislator."

Bob Barr may not be right about a lot of things, but he's right about this one. That's the law. If the Democrats and Republicans don't like it, they can talk to themselves!

[eirin]

I actually think it'd be hilarious! Since McCain would win Texas anyway, I say go for it Barr. I've got nothing to lose! LOL

[RobertB]

With the D's and R's falling over each other to bail out the financial sector, I'm waiting for O or Mc to say something, anything, about the root cause of the problems -- the massive deregulation that allowed banks to enter everything from brokerage to insurance. It was an undoing of laws enacted during the Great Depression to avoid the very situation we're in now. The deregulation was the product of a Democratic president and a Republican congress coming together on the one thing they agree on -- kissing the butts of their corporate patrons.

The deregulation was a mistake, and none of these financial companies should get a cent of taxpayer dollars unless they break up like AT&T. But since both major parties are complicit in the scam, I don't expect anything but flagwaving. McCain has a tax plan to cut the corporate bosses' taxes, and Obama's VP is the senator from Citibank.

I've been volunteering for the Obama campaign, and I went to the convention in Austin, but I'm going to spend what little time I have for politics on the local level. Robert Miklos is running for the open HD 101 seat from Mesquite/Balch Springs/Sunnyvale, against the former mayor of Mesquite who has tons of cash, but didn't bother to put "Republican" on his ubiquitous campaign signs. Wonder why?

[concretist]

There has never been a free market, and it hasn't been close since 1907 when J.P. himself stepped in and saved the day. If the market were truly "free" you and I wouldn't stand a chance, hopefully it stays free enough and regulated enough at the same time.
When the market was "free" there was such rampant manipulation that only the "old boys" really stood a chance, and they would occasionally eat one another. A good example of this is the Harlem Railroad and NY state Senator Kimble et al, who cornered the stock, propped it, and sold it short, while moving legislation through the NY state senate that ensured it's demise. Another is wash sales in the days before income tax, two traders would trade a stock back and forth at lower and lower prices, driving the stock down, while accumulating shares from others, and at the same time they could have shares sold short benefiting doubly.
The only guys who could pull these things off were insiders, and the leisure class who were essentially gambling on stocks were easy marks for them.
I don't have an ox that is gored today, except that I live in this country and the people getting the shaft are my friends and neighbors who will payoff this disaster if the form of higher taxes. I could care less which party was the initiator of this garbage; they have both been involved in it. I just want it to stop. I want regulation that affects everyone the same, and I want to know what the rules are before I enter the market, not find out afterwards. I also wish the regs affected everybody the same, and that they didn't change the rules in the middle of the game, but that just isn't the way it can be, the market is an evolving thing. A pen for a goat is of no use if the goat evolves into a monkey.
The market does not equal our country, but it is an entry point for a nefarious entity to attack us. A frontal military assault or terrorist action would meet formidable defense in this day and age, but an economic attack might go unnoticed for a long time and cause much damage before it is even detected. And while the market is populated by folks who are increasingly distanced from the common folk, a catastrophic event in it would cause the common folk much pain. There are retirement accounts and businesses that represent a big percentage of the common folk that would be crushed by a market in collapse.

[RobertB]

...A frontal military assault or terrorist action would meet formidable defense in this day and age, but an economic attack has gone unnoticed for a long time and caused much damage before it was even detected...

There, fixed it for ya.

[concretist]

I have to say the intent of my post was with the frustration of the powers that be changing the rules of the game. That said, I understand the general risk with taking any position long or short, and perhaps I wasn't up to speed with all the daily and weekend decisions being made by the SEC and others that made for additional risk in the trade. However, I take FULL responsibility for my own decisions good, bad or indifferent.
That IMO is the problem with this RTC or "plan". It absolves the players primarily responsible for this whole mess: bankers, politicians, home buyers, etc from the bad consequences of THEIR own actions. They should be allowed to go bankrupt, and profiting from thier demise is fair game. I'm sure there are many banks and investment banks that are well run and did not take the unnecessary risks that have so clearly wiped out most of the big name institutions, and a similar "plan" could transition the financial system to new, more responsible entities. Survival of the fittest should be in play, not cronyism. I find it disturbing Paulson (ex GS) and Bernanke (who actually OWNS the FED? GS, JPM, LEH, + +) can change the game when it affects their ass while GS & others probably shorted countless companies into the ground for their own profit (naked and legit).
Central banking and fiat money has proven time and again to be destined to fail and drive the masses into poverty. I think we need to unite as voters (Republicans and Democrats are both part of PROBLEM) and throw all 536 congressmen out of office and demand Congress revoke the Fed's charter over the control of our money supply. You can argue forever which party is responsible when in actuality both are complicit and bought and paid for by criminal bankers who play both sides of the coin, and have no allegiance to this country and its people.
Divide and conquer is working well for the elite. When the people are polarized and cannot see that we all have a common enemy, we will get nowhere.

[concretist]

P.S.

Mark me down for some kind of serious 'stagflation' with the very real possibility that the dollar crashes and leads to a depression. How long can the dollar remain the reserve currency of sovereign wealth funds as it declines in value at such a rapid rate? If the world starts dumping dollars, we are in for a very rough time. I think the three meatheads at the podium yesterday forgot about that.

[psukhu]

P.S.

Mark me down for some kind of serious 'stagflation' with the very real possibility that the dollar crashes and leads to a depression. How long can the dollar remain the reserve currency of sovereign wealth funds as it declines in value at such a rapid rate? If the world starts dumping dollars, we are in for a very rough time. I think the three meatheads at the podium yesterday forgot about that.

You may be right. The US government does not really have the cash for these bailouts. Bonds must be sold to meet budget gaps, which means our currency is being diluted. How many people in the US are really keeping their incomes ahead of inflation?

As inflation continues and our currency declines, we each become poorer relative to rest of the world.

It is amazing that our Federal government is spending so much money, yet we are far behind other developed nations when it comes to social services for ordinary people.

[concretist]

Psukhu:

In the end, it's this simple: Leave Republicans in charge for too long and the taxpayers end up bailing them out. You know, if BoA fails and Uncle Sam takes it too then Bank of America will actually mean what it says.

Branding. The most important part of crisis management.

RTC was a drop in the bucket compared to the current little faux pas.

My concern is not the models that make up the new entity. They are not the variable. The variables are all the new investment instruments invented since Resolution Trust was instituted such as high ratio leveraging. And all the deregulation of the industry that is much more complete than what the S&L kids had.

The S&L Crisis was about $160-180Billion of potential risk. This is in the Trillions. That is a bunch of resources.

I am not saying it will fail, I am saying it is going to cost a tremendous amount of TAXPAYER money in process. And failure is an option, unfortunately.

I can't wait for one of my Republican buddies to whine about Obama bringing socialism to ordinary Americans,,,shortly after the party of fiscal discipline socialized Wall Street. For the Republicans it's evidently okay to rob the poor to help the rich?!

[psukhu]

You had me until the end, but the knee-jerk Christian bashing doesn't do a damned (heh) thing to help promote a pro-science agenda -- which I, as a Christian myself, fully support. If she says God told her to drill in ANWR, then that's fair game. But leave the poor dinosaurs out of it. Won't someone please think of the dinosaurs?

Stick to concrete questions, or you're being no better than Rush turning "Liberal" into a four-letter word ("lbrl", perhaps?)

Edit: Jesus couldn't have ridden a dinosaur, because they weren't on the Ark, silly.

Here's why I think the dinosaur thing keeps coming up when talking about Palin.

If someone goes through a bachelor degree program in the US, that person would have to take some sort of science course such as biology, geology, physics, chemistry, etc. At some point the history of the Earth would be taught. The K-T boundry (65.5 million years ago) would be discussed along with the fact that Homo Sapiens didn’t exist until about 200,000 years ago. Even if someone didn’t attend university, that person would still have access to public libraries or the Internet. At the very least, there are television channels such as the Discovery Channel and the National Geographic Channel.

So why would someone such as Sara Palin think that humans walked the Earth the same time as dinosaurs and why is this relevant to her possibly being VP?

a) Maybe she didn’t pay attention in school and she is simply not an intellectual as an adult. If this is the case, then she probably didn’t pay attention in world history courses either. Is this the person we want in control at a time when our country has a strong influence over all of humanity? (most widely deployed large military, one third of Earth's economy, etc)

b) Maybe she is actually very smart, but she is putting on an act to get the religious vote. In that case we probably can’t trust her to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people.

c) Maybe she is delusional to the point where her religious beliefs trump logic and reason. This means that she is likely to make decisions based on her religious beliefs. Again, it is not a great idea for someone like this to be in charge of the military or managing relationships with other nations where the leaders don’t share her view on religion.

I couldn’t care less what someone believes, but the rest of the world is watching us to see who we elect. We get worried when other countries elect religious leaders so think about what the rest of the world will think if/when Palin is elected.

[FoUTASportscaster]

So move to a country that has one.

I am careingly pointing out how I love the classy debate of "if you do/don't like that then move" or "if you don't like the way it is designed, buy it." That type of response just adds so much intelect and thought to the discussion.

I recieved this e-mail from my advisor. If it wasn't sealed for me before, it is now, even though I already knw this as their base stance.

Brookings has compiled a comparative list of the McCain and Obama positions on transportation policy.


http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2008...tes_opp08.aspx



Most of this is culled from their respective web sites but some is from press accounts



McCain "expects an explosion in mass transit," without specifying any policy proposals (beyond free-market hyperbole that Amtrak be self-supporting), "Obama will reform the tax code to make benefits for driving and public transit or ridesharing equal" (note the focus on justice in transportation issues).


Also, the Wall Street Journal reports that "McCain hasn't released a formal policy identified as targeting urban issues," while "Sen. Obama says his administration would shift urban-policy making to so-called smart-growth strategies that synchronize transportation, commercial and housing needs for entire regions, rather than following the tradition of focusing first on fighting poverty and crime.”

[RobertB]

So why would someone such as Sara[h] Palin think that humans walked the Earth the same time as dinosaurs and why is this relevant to her possibly being VP?

Can you cite a source? Not just a source that her church leadership thinks that dinosaurs missed the Ark, but that she holds that particular belief. Perhaps that would make the topic more germaine.

But as hard as it may be, I would suggest not using it as a punch line. Most humans have a really hard time with numbers that have to be written in exponential notation anyway. If you try to boil it down to a bumper sticker line, you'll lose out to those who have turned their entire faith into a series of bumper sticker lines. And the people who *do* laugh at your joke weren't going to vote Republican in the first place -- or if they were, it wasn't because of Palin's religious views.

I think the coolest thing would be if it turned out that the entire fossil record was put there by God to see whether we could handle the idea that He might have chosen to turn dust into man via a monkey.

[tamtagon]

I think the coolest thing would be if it turned out that the entire fossil record was put there by God to see whether we could handle the idea that He might have chosen to turn dust into man via a monkey.

He?

[eirin]

Texas Supreme Court rejects Barr request

09/23/2008
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...D93CLMO82.html

Associated Press


The Texas Supreme Court rejected a request Tuesday by Libertarian Party presidential nominee Bob Barr to keep Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama off the Texas ballot.

The court denied the request without explanation.

Barr filed a lawsuit last week claiming the Republican and Democratic presidential nominees should be removed from the Nov. 4 ballot. He says they weren't formally nominated by their parties before the filing deadline.

The Texas Secretary of State's Office has said repeatedly that the Texas ballot — including the names of McCain and Obama — was certified properly.

Pat Dixon, chair of the Libertarian Party of Texas, said the decision raises the question of whether parties are bound by the Texas Election Code and whether there is a "grace period" for meeting deadlines.

"We are naturally disappointed that the Supreme Court has refused to enforce the law against Republicans and Democrats in this case, when courts have repeatedly enforced the law against Libertarians, other minor parties, and independents in past cases," Dixon said.


What a shame.