DTD: Street Level Retail

[FoUTASportscaster]

A thread for street level retail activity, good and bad.

New street level activity now open and underway.

Restaurant:
1509 Pacific, Scene
1306 Elm, Sumo and Steak
1409 Main, Jason's Deli
1301 Main, Cafe Ravena, renovation

Entertainment:
723 Pearl, Joyce (a bar)
1301 Main, Thoth (a club)

Clothing:
400 N St Paul #105, Freeman Clothing Urban and Upscale Apparel

Misc:
1303 Commerce, Avis Rent a Car (left the tunnels)

[FoUTASportscaster]

Addendum:

Restaurants
1530 Main, Charlie Palmer
418 S Ervay, Top's

[AeroD]

Clothing:
400 N St Paul #105, Freeman Clothing Urban and Upscale Apparel

Misc:
1303 Commerce, Avis Rent a Car (left the tunnels)

Is the clothing store one of those places that sell purple suits and fedoras, or anything else out of the Deion Sanders wardrobe? (I just remember during the mid 90s when I would go to downtown to visit my mom at work at the old Municipal Building we would walk to lunch and walk by the retailers that sold some of the most gawdy suits. Which I guess on the other extreme you have Neiman Marcus.)

If not, do you think it is sustainable? Same question for all the other places.

[jredallas]

. . . but Ecko and Sean John appear to big two of their main lines they sell.

http://www.freemans-clothing.com/

[jredallas]

Addendum:

Restaurants
1530 Main, Charlie Palmer
418 S Ervay, Top's

Is Top's adding a location on Ervay or moving the location from Main?

[vman]

Is Top's adding a location on Ervay or moving the location from Main?

Good question. I noticed the new Tops last week. It has a pretty cool looking neon sign.

[barrycb]

They are moving, not adding a location.

[AeroD]

. . . but Ecko and Sean John appear to big two of their main lines they sell.

http://www.freemans-clothing.com/

That is cool with me.

Whatever it takes to get other people to shop downtown besides aging Neiman Marcus customers or the purple suit crowd.

[jredallas]

I totally agree Aero. This adds to a good mix of the retail clothing stores available in DTD that seems to be developing. Having not been inside but driving and walking past, the store looks really good from the outside looking in.

[Urban Interest]

Don't forget clothing--Jos. A. Bank. It's not brand new retail, but it's still fairly new.

[tamtagon]

It will be fun to watch the circulation of businesses from the tunnels to the street. As the setting on the street becomes more interesting and inviting, retail space in the tunnels will undergo segment chrun, as those businesses which benefit from the streetscene of a big city relocate, while leasable tunnel space will begin to function more as an extention of connected office towers, and less as a break-room.

[St-T]

Addendum:

Restaurants
1530 Main, Charlie Palmer
418 S Ervay, Top's

You will be proud of me FOUTA, I am branching out of Uptown and heading to Charlie Palmer for NY Eve.

[Kelley USA]

Would it ever be possible for the City to shut down the tunnel system? If you want to start creating a vibrant DT it might be as simple as shutting down the tunnels to retail & restaurants... You could give them 1 year notice to find new street level space. Can you imagine the activity!!!!

Speaking of the tunnels, I have never even been in the tunnels. Does anyone have any photos of the tunnels?

[AeroD]

Would it ever be possible for the City to shut down the tunnel system? If you want to start creating a vibrant DT it might be as simple as shutting down the tunnels to retail & restaurants... You could give them 1 year notice to find new street level space. Can you imagine the activity!!!!

Speaking of the tunnels, I have never even been in the tunnels. Does anyone have any photos of the tunnels?

Ask Sportscaster.

[cowboyeagle05]

Would it ever be possible for the City to shut down the tunnel system? If you want to start creating a vibrant DT it might be as simple as shutting down the tunnels to retail & restaurants... You could give them 1 year notice to find new street level space. Can you imagine the activity!!!!

Speaking of the tunnels, I have never even been in the tunnels. Does anyone have any photos of the tunnels?

I am gonna say No unless the city can get the office tower owners to agree to some kind of partnership that they would probably use sayings like for the betterment of downtown we are gonna shut them down. The tunnels are owned by the office towers and are treated as a amenity and I would not expect them to close considering that fact the tunnels are not that great anyways but they serve their function just fine providing some food and Starbucks options for businesses occupying the glass towers. If the tunnels flowed better they could work as a Mall but they are not connected in a way that promotes alot of self explanatory exploration of the options. The simple fact that they don't have a solid single plan for the tunnels like a mall would and are controlled by each office tower separately is evidence to there not so great experience and selection but as I said they serve the purpose as a sheltered eatery for lunch time. Unless businesses really start complaining about the state of the tunnels or support a public mission to close them they are going nowhere fast. A complaint by city hall will not do much even if The Paper writes about it.

[xen0blue]

I am gonna say No unless the city can get the office tower owners to agree to some kind of partnership that they would probably use sayings like for the betterment of downtown we are gonna shut them down. The tunnels are owned by the office towers and are treated as a amenity and I would not expect them to close considering that fact the tunnels are not that great anyways but they serve their function just fine providing some food and Starbucks options for businesses occupying the glass towers. If the tunnels flowed better they could work as a Mall but they are not connected in a way that promotes alot of self explanatory exploration of the options. The simple fact that they don't have a solid single plan for the tunnels like a mall would and are controlled by each office tower separately is evidence to there not so great experience and selection but as I said they serve the purpose as a sheltered eatery for lunch time. Unless businesses really start complaining about the state of the tunnels or support a public mission to close them they are going nowhere fast. A complaint by city hall will not do much even if The Paper writes about it.

I've got an idea, instead of letting the tunnels go to waste, why not make them into an underground subway! it's be a shame to have all this empty space downtown and not use it...it'd free up some street space.

[GennadyB]

These "tunnels" are not nearly deep nor large enough to support any sort of a rail system. I think it's neat that they exist and often use them during the lunch time at work to escape heat or cold. I don't see why the two (street level retail and tunnels) can't co-exist at the same time. After all, the tunnels do shut down pretty early.

[sterling]

These "tunnels" are not nearly deep nor large enough to support any sort of a rail system. I think it's neat that they exist and often use them during the lunch time at work to escape heat or cold. I don't see why the two (street level retail and tunnels) can't co-exist at the same time. After all, the tunnels do shut down pretty early.

Agree totally. You can't FORCE people to be lively pedestrian adventurers. Let the mole people have their tunnels, and let others stroll in the light of day now and then. Choices, variety, alternatives. With new residents coming downtown in larger numbers, office workers won't have to carry the burden of being downtown's only non-homeless population. After all, they just want to find the quickest lunch, the easiest photo processing, and a parking spot they can run to to escape downtown at 5pm. That particular demographic probably isn't too concerned whether or not there's a Banana Republic close by. They might like more varied places to eat and have drinks after work though. Still, it isn't likely that either Banana Republic or Hooters is going to be lured to open in a rat maze of corridors underground. Apples and oranges. The tunnels serve a purpose however non-exciting. No need to reinvent the wheel again.

[barrycb]

You will be proud of me FOUTA, I am branching out of Uptown and heading to Charlie Palmer for NY Eve.

Maybe I'll see you there.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Would it ever be possible for the City to shut down the tunnel system? If you want to start creating a vibrant DT it might be as simple as shutting down the tunnels to retail & restaurants... You could give them 1 year notice to find new street level space. Can you imagine the activity!!!!

Speaking of the tunnels, I have never even been in the tunnels. Does anyone have any photos of the tunnels?

Ask Sportscaster.

I am gonna say No unless the city can get the office tower owners to agree to some kind of partnership that they would probably use sayings like for the betterment of downtown we are gonna shut them down. The tunnels are owned by the office towers and are treated as a amenity and I would not expect them to close considering that fact the tunnels are not that great anyways but they serve their function just fine providing some food and Starbucks options for businesses occupying the glass towers. If the tunnels flowed better they could work as a Mall but they are not connected in a way that promotes alot of self explanatory exploration of the options. The simple fact that they don't have a solid single plan for the tunnels like a mall would and are controlled by each office tower separately is evidence to there not so great experience and selection but as I said they serve the purpose as a sheltered eatery for lunch time. Unless businesses really start complaining about the state of the tunnels or support a public mission to close them they are going nowhere fast. A complaint by city hall will not do much even if The Paper writes about it.

It is a good idea to ask me, as I do have the answer. Yes, the city could, if it chose to do so, shut the tunnels down. cowboyeagle is only half right is saying the towers own them. In essence, what the towers own is a basement. The part that connects the buildings, the tunnels themselves, are actually owned by the city and run underneath the streets. Should they decide to do so, the city could close, pave, fill-in these sections, essentially rendering the tunnels as nothing more than basement level stops, and returning the street back to its prominent role.

Agree totally. You can't FORCE people to be lively pedestrian adventurers. Let the mole people have their tunnels, and let others stroll in the light of day now and then. Choices, variety, alternatives. With new residents coming downtown in larger numbers, office workers won't have to carry the burden of being downtown's only non-homeless population. After all, they just want to find the quickest lunch, the easiest photo processing, and a parking spot they can run to to escape downtown at 5pm. That particular demographic probably isn't too concerned whether or not there's a Banana Republic close by. They might like more varied places to eat and have drinks after work though. Still, it isn't likely that either Banana Republic or Hooters is going to be lured to open in a rat maze of corridors underground. Apples and oranges. The tunnels serve a purpose however non-exciting. No need to reinvent the wheel again.

Totally disagree. See this thread, http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=6036, for details.

[texcolo2]

Hmmmm...

I've been doing some reading. I'm not so sure if closing the tunnels down is a good idea. This could come back to haunt us.

[Mballar]

^damn, are those sleestacks. . . ? [remember "Land of the Lost"] :2lol:

[Dallascaper]

^damn, are those sleestacks. . . ? [remember "Land of the Lost"] :2lol:

What? Those are Morlocks from George Pal's 1960 adaptation of the Time Machine.

[texcolo2]

^

They're Morlocks from 'The Time Machine.' Far into the future humanity has evolved into two seperate races, the Eloi and the Morlock.

Land of the Lost rules!!

[berryhill]

Maybe this has been mentioned, but isn't downtown Minneapolis criss-crossed by skybridges? How does that affect their street-level activity?

[Mballar]

^

They're Morlocks from 'The Time Machine.' Far into the future humanity has evolved into two seperate races, the Eloi and the Morlock.

Land of the Lost rules!!

My bad! Land of the Lost does rule, and it's obviously been a long time since I've seen the show. The following is a sleestak, and should never be confused with a Morlock.



Sorry for the off-topic discussion. I was feeling a little nostalgic.

[Tnekster]

My bad! Land of the Lost does rule, and it's obviously been a long time since I've seen the show. The following is a sleestak, and should never be confused with a Morlock.



Sorry for the off-topic discussion. I was feeling a little nostalgic.

Gosh I had forgotten all about the sleestack, I remember watching that show. Great idea for a Halloween costume, all you need to do is walk around and hiss.

So they are making a movie based on this series? With Will Ferrell?

[dfwcre8tive]

United Commercial Realty (UCR) has a lot of retail space in Downtown Dallas. Here's a breakdown of what they have available:

Third Rail Lofts
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=33
Space Available: 3,229 sf on street level

The Merc
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=30
Gross Leasable: 60,000 sf

Bank One Center Restaurant
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=15
Gross Leasable: 6,556 square feet

700 N. Pearl Street
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=13
Space Available: 6,500 sf

1800 North Market Street
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=3
Lot Size: 0.2469 Acres

1800 North Lamar
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=2
Space Available: 5,000 sf and 10,000 sf

1200 Main Street
http://www.ucrrealty.com/property_detail.php?start=1
Gross Leasable: 10,000 sf

[UTdude]

office workers won't have to carry the burden of being downtown's only non-homeless population. After all, they just want to find the quickest lunch, the easiest photo processing, and a parking spot they can run to to escape downtown at 5pm. That particular demographic probably isn't too concerned whether or not there's a Banana Republic close by.

I suppose I'm a typical office worker that commutes downtown from the suburbs most days, but I would appreciate more retail options downtown. I ride DART because I hate fighting traffic. In the same vein, I would greatly prefer shopping at downtown retailers during lunch or after work, rather than driving to and parking at a suburban strip center or mall. I occasionally take DART to CityPlace during lunch just to do some shopping or visit the Wamu branch. I would love to see a good bookstore locate downtown.

I, for one, also dislike the tunnels and usually walk at street level. I spend more than enough time inside during the day and enjoy the fresh air. The tunnels do come in handy, however, to get to the DART station during the occasional torrential downpour.

[AeroD]

Now everybody wants a bookstore in DTD. ; )

There was a bookstore downtown in the Renaissance Tower during the mid 90s (I think it was a Borders). I don't know when it closed down, but I imagine it will be a while before a bookstore re-opens.

[pwright1]

Now everybody wants a bookstore in DTD. ; )

There was a bookstore downtown in the Renaissance Tower during the mid 90s (I think it was a Borders). I don't know when it closed down, but I imagine it will be a while before a bookstore re-opens.

Who likes Borders anyway? I remember the sorry one in dt Bellevue closed. I never saw anyone in there. There's still one in dt Seattle but not nearly the business as Barnes & Noble which is opened 7 days a week until 11pm. I can't believe there is not 1 bookstore in dt Dallas.

[Kelley USA]

I like Borders... The one in WV is packed all the time- especially the cafe... But I think any bookstore DT would be a good start!

[LongonBigD]

That bookstore downtown in Renaissance was a Taylor's. It was their last gasp before succumbing to the competitive pressure of B&N and Borders. I believe at their pinnacle, Taylor's had about 8 stores in the area before B&N bought up Bookstop and the book "superstore" concept started wiping out the independent booksellers (Taylor's, Century, Black Images, Shakespeare & Co, and most recently threatened - Crossroads Market).

I love the irony that the two mega-chains forced (almost) everyone else out of business and now Borders is constantly rumoured to be a take-over candidate for B&N. If that happens, B&N will be the WalMart of the book business.

[msutton]

I agree. Borders' in the WV is the best mega-book-store in all of DFW. Why? Because it doesn't feel like a cheap movie-set version of every other Borders or B&N location, respectively. It actually carries the vibe of being a unique institution.

The selection of books at Gachet in Victory is actually very interesting. They have a great book of Venetian recipes. And some interesting fiction that had flown under my radar.

[DallasMan]

^I agree - a Borders like the one in WV would be awesome downtown. I'm sure it would have to be scaled back. Its my favorite Dallas bookstore though.

Wow, I had forgotten about Taylor's - that is a great memory, thanks for that!

[texcolo2]

Do you think the large blocks that make up the space between Elm, Main and Commerce streets are a hinderence to retail development and the walkability of Main Street?

Houston and Fort Worth have relatively tiny blocks. FW's DT blocks are so tiny alot buildings and garages take up two blocks.

I read somewhere about how the East Side and West Side in Manhattan developed differently because of the size of the blocks. The East Side has two more avenues than the West Side does and thus became much more prosperous and 'alive.' There's been talk about running another Park Avenue type street up the West Side in order to sow the seeds for development.

[mdg109]

I never really paid attention to block size. I guess that would make a difference. Do y'all think it will be a while before a known retailer opens up downtown or do you think we could probably see someone open up this year? Seriously, if a bookstore opened, I'd be there all the time.

[Kelley USA]

OK, let me just say that I am not against the homeless here... But I do have a serious question. How would a bookstore handle the homeless? I could see a bookstore becoming a popular spot for homeless to just come in, mingle, read the papers, sit down with a book etc... Is this even an issue or would a bookstore have some sort of plan in place?

[Mballar]

Is this even an issue or would a bookstore have some sort of plan in place?

I don't think it would be a poblem. I'm almost certain that any bookstore, unless owned by the City, would be considered private property, and the owners (Borders, Half Price, Barnes & Noble, etc.) could refuse service/entrance at that location to anyone.

[FoUTASportscaster]

They'd handle it just like the current buisness handle it, no more, no less.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Restaurant
1510 Pacific, Tovi Mediterreanean Grill (unfortunately, a lunch place)

[FoUTASportscaster]

At 907 San Jacinto, the first DTD street level (or any level for that matter) cellular store will open soon. It will be a MetroPCS, across from the West Transfer Center.

At 1604 Elm, Eccentric Salon (or somesuch) will open, relocating its buisness from 1301 Main, on the Field Street side.

[TiredWhiteTrash]

how boring

[cowboyeagle05]

At 907 San Jacinto, the first DTD street level (or any level for that matter) cellular store will open soon. It will be a MetroPCS, across from the West Transfer Center.

At 1604 Elm, Eccentric Salon (or somesuch) will open, relocating its buisness from 1301 Main, on the Field Street side.

Was the Salon underground before or was it formerly in the renovated building that is now "The Ivy" good growth anyways.

[sterling]

"how boring"

I'll say.

How 'bout this: Announcing street level retail openings practically everywhere in the metroplex! Hasn't street level retail been perfected already in the Suburbs. Do we really want our down town to look like Preston Road in Plano?

Lets try something new. How about something like Vertical Density Midpoint Retail (VDMR) this concepts helps eliminate some of the vacant office spaces in large commercial office buildings by creating VDMR levels on floors located in the middle (vertically) of large skyscrapers. This concepts would allow office space floors now vacant to be modified to retail mini-malls on these special floors with in the building. It would be more environmentally conscious since no one has to drive any where and the elevators from the upper floors wouldn't have to travel all the way to the street saving more energy! Even MORE energy would be saved by eliminating all those thousands of door opening every day in every building to let people in and out as they selfishly explore street level retail.

This is a great new concept! Come on people, band together and save the environment! Support VDMP mini malls in your building.

As Dallas is not Hong Kong, I can only imagine your remarks are purposed to be ironic. That, or someone has put out a new version of SimCity that you have mistaken to be reality. Either way, I am glad not to point this out in person to the owner of the bicep pictured in your avatar.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Was the Salon underground before or was it formerly in the renovated building that is now "The Ivy" good growth anyways.

Now, it was across from Ivy on 1301 Main on the Field Street side.

[DalMac]

MetroPCS has scores of dumpy stores around town. I hope this is a nice one.

[trolleygirl]

MetroPCS has scores of dumpy stores around town. I hope this is a nice one.

I thought they only put Metro PCS in poor neighborhoods....

[trolleygirl]

the owner of the bicep pictured in your avatar.

Heh, heh....I've been wondering the same thing....

[aygriffith]

I thought they only put Metro PCS in poor neighborhoods....

I think the placement potential of this store is its across from the west village transfer station... sorry but thats a great spot for a business looking to cater to broke people who want month to month DFW only cellphone service.

I'm sure they'll have great success with the "uh can I pay my bill hur" people...