Reply With QuoteEast Perkins is at MP 641.7; just east of Medical Market Center (MP 641.1) and west of Market Center Blvd. (MP 641.66)
Lisa is near MP 642; West of Denton Branch Dallas Junction (MP 642.6) on Main Line 1, West of Victory Station (MP 643.3)
Trinity Railway Express thread
For some reason, I can't seem to find a thread that's just about the TRE. There's a thread on The T's commuter rail proposals, but I guess the TRE has just stayed busy running in the background.
Today's DART Board meeting includes an item to approve construction of a double-track segment "between the Lisa and East Perkins interlockings". Unfortunately, I don't know where that is -- they didn't include a map in the "DART Board supplemental information" file. But it does involve replacing an existing wooden bridge with two concrete spans. The project is due to start in October 2007 and run for about 12 months. It's due to cost a bit shy of $3 million.
There's some interesting info I need to transcribe from an August DART meeting about the TRE's strategic direction -- unfortunately, my real job expects me to do more coding and less gabbing. Back to work!
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
East Perkins is at MP 641.7; just east of Medical Market Center (MP 641.1) and west of Market Center Blvd. (MP 641.66)
Lisa is near MP 642; West of Denton Branch Dallas Junction (MP 642.6) on Main Line 1, West of Victory Station (MP 643.3)
"All politics is local." -- Tip O'Neill
Great info! I hadn't noticed that the stretch between Medical/Market Center and Victory Stations included a single-track segment. The bridge to be replaced is clearly visible in this Google Maps aerial image.Originally Posted by rheye3
Interesting that this wasn't rolled into the Green Line project, which is already in progress right next to this segment. Of course, $9 million is a lot of dough, even in a $800 million project. It's only fair that the widening goes on the TRE's (shared) books and not the Green Line's.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Great. The sooner they can get the whole route double-tracked, the better.
Times weighs down on you like an old, ambiguous dream. You keep on moving, trying to slip through it. But even if you go to the ends of the earth, you won't be able to escape it.
Haruki Murakami
So, does anyone have any suggestions for parking daily Mon-Thr at or around Union Station? I will likely be leaving at 4:33PM or 5:14PM daily and back on one of the last two trrains at 9:49 or 11:35. I noticed several meters, which are only in effect until 6, so that seems like a cheap way to do it. A bus would be fine to get there, but I really don't want to do that on the way back at that time of night either.
I'd park at Mockingbird Station. It's not too far, and you can catch either Red or Blue to get back to your car.
You could do the same at 8th & Corinth, but let's just say it's not quite as upscale as Mockingbird. :look: However, if it's more convenient, I'd be entirely comfortable parking at Hampton or Westmoreland (Red Line only).
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I used to ride a bus at night after 10 and 11 o'clock every night. Don't know why everyone buys into the stereotype that buses are dangerous, but they aren't. There are a lot of minorities and lower wealth people, but nothing dangerous.
I know some of the route from Dallas to Fort Worth is getting double tracked, but is there an existing plan to have the entire route double tracked? Oh, and my impression that the reason for double tracking is get from here to there much faster.
The people I saw on the bus after 10 were like me -- working late, trying to get home. The dangerous people were on the road -- like some drunk guy in an SUV flying down Central Expressway at 80+ mph.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Park at Cedars, 2 stations south. Parking lot is well lit, 2 blocks from Police HQ, and you are on both lines meaning frequent stops. Cedars is 5 minutes from Union Station. I've been there at 10 and 11:30 and plenty of parking is available. We have next to zero crime.
Thank you for the suggestions everyone. I guess I should clarify my point on the bus at night was more about the infrequency. I am going to FW for school after working all day, so the last thing I think I am going to want to do at 11:30 is take too long to get home and get sleep.I like the Cedars option; that will probably work.
Strike my post from the record. That is totally justified.
Is there a particular reason for TRE not running on Sundays? I thought it might have more to do with someone else using the lines then, not that TRE did not feel like running. If it's cost, what is the incremental cost of running on Sunday? Though not running Sunday has often affected my travel plans, if we can't afford it, then we can't afford it.
Until the entire route is double-tracked, they need Sundays for maintenance.
Last edited by Hannibal Lecter; 30 June 2008 at 05:37 PM.
Are they planning on double-tracking the entire route?
This just in:
Trinity Railway Express Advisory Committee Meeting"Potential Fare Increases for TRE"? Are they considering something other than the standard DART/FWTA fare schedule, which treats a TRE ride as a local in the service area and an express to the other side of the Metroplex?
http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org...1208agenda.pdf
Friday, September 12, 2008, 12:00 pm
Irving Yard Conference Room
4801 Rock Island Road
Irving, Texas 75061
1. Call to Order
2. Approval of Minutes: July 11, 2008
3. *TRE Operations Report for July and August, 2008
4. *Rolling Stock Need Planning
5. *Potential Fare Increases for TRE
6. *September 1, 2008 Fire at Euless South Main Street
7. *Construction Update
8. Other Business, Identification of Future Agenda Items, and Scheduling of Next
TRE Advisory Committee Meeting Date for Friday, November 14, 2008 at
12:00 pm
9. Adjournment
*Briefing Item
It would make sense if they did, to tell the truth. As much as it pains me to say it, commuter rail should probably be a premium-priced service, especially once DART has the LRT running from downtown to Victory, Market Center, and Parkland. Perhaps they would consider keeping the stretch from Medical/Market Center to Union Station at the local fare until the Green Line comes on line in 2011 -- but raise the ticket price on the rest of the run to a flat $5 day pass.
I'd hate to see it become a non-transfer, separate fare. That would just introduce complexity into the system. Make it a premium/express fare, with transfer privileges to feeder buses (including express).
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I agree after the Green and Orange Lines are built on the express fare and transfers.
I understand the need to feed the 3,000 HP diesel locomotives with fuel is very expensive. The F59s the TRE uses consume 2 gallon of diesel per mile. I would agree to a fuel surcharge, say another quarter or so, before the Green and Orange Lines open. But let's not start charging express fares before the local fares become available.
Of course, TRE could buy some DMU trains (Stadler GTW, Bombardier Talent, Siemens Desiro, or Colorado Railcar) that get 2 miles per gallon of diesel, and increase their fuel milage 4 times and save us the increased fares.
At the August Dart Board meetings, they were discussing requiring the T to use DMUs on the Cotton Belt, maybe they should require DMUs on the TRE too.
Last edited by electricron; 08 September 2008 at 08:26 PM.
Unlike the Cotton Belt, DART does not own the TRE line and cannot require DMUs. They could agree to use DMUs or come to a consensus or compromise.
The FWTA had previously budgeted $4,000,000 for a Colorado Railcar but I have not found whether they placed the order. From board minutes reported in last year's Star-Telegram:
Rail car: Agreed to put $4 million in the budget for
fiscal 2008, which begins in October, to buy a demo
Colorado rail car. T officials would like to use the
self-propelled diesel rail cars on the proposed
commuter corridor from Fort Worth to Grapevine, and in
the meantime, they want to test the rail car on the
TRE.""
Hopefully no contract was signed. If the smaller DMUs are required for the Cotton Belt, and what with Colorado Railcar's delivery issues, we can put the money towards the purchase of a *&^$# compliant vehicle.
Andy Haretip
Advertise here! Ask me how!
I wondered what the "F" in "FRA" stood for, thanks.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
FRA = Federal Railroad AdministrationI wondered what the "F" in "FRA" stood for, thanks.
FTA = Federal Transit Administration
One regulates railroad standards, the other transit standards, I'll let you figure out which is which. Both handout federal cash under different programs.
No.
--------------------
Folks, I have a lot of TRE capacity expansion info in a PDF that came from DART's website, but DART no longer has the link. I can't copy-and-paste the relevant sections because of some clarity problems with the document. Any ideas about how the document could be made available for those who are interested? Thanks for helping this computer novice.
Sarcasm
Pronunciation: \ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
Date: 1550
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm
synonyms see "wit"
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
:roflmao2:
Andy Haretip
Advertise here! Ask me how!
New and improved schedule coming.
Route(s) Affected: Trinity Railway Express
Effective Date: 10/6/2008
http://www.dart.org/rideralerts/fullRArss.asp?id=579
Major Schedule Changes Will Enhance Service for TRE Customers
Additional rush hour and evening service, plus adjustments to many departure and arrival times await Trinity Railway Express passengers when service changes take effect Monday, October 6.
Several new travel options will be available to riders. Additional westbound trips include a 5:22 a.m. trip from CentrePort Station to Fort Worth that arrives at the Intermodal Transportation Center (ITC) at 5:54 a.m., a 7:15 a.m. trip from Dallas Union Station that arrives at CentrePort at 7:45 a.m. and an 11:45 p.m. train from Dallas Union Station arriving at CentrePort at 12:15 a.m. A new 4:35 p.m. eastbound train from CentrePort arrives at Union Station at 5:05 p.m.
In addition, many existing train departure times have been adjusted by one to ten minutes, and a few westbound train departures during the middle of the day have been adjusted by up to 25 minutes to provide more even spacing between train departures from Union Station.
The Saturday service schedule has been enhanced to more closely meet bus connections at the ITC. An earlier westbound train will now depart CentrePort at 7:25 a.m. arriving at the ITC at 7:56 a.m. and a later train will depart Union Station at 11:45 p.m., ending at CentrePort at 12:16 a.m.
Limited service will be provided on the Friday after Thanksgiving, the days immediately preceding and following Christmas and New Year's Day, and the Friday prior to Independence Day 2009 in the form of an extended Saturday schedule. There is no TRE service on Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day or Labor Day.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
TRE still needs a Sunday schedule!
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I'd agree, after the rail line is double tracked. The use Sundays to work and add on to the rail line. Otherwise, they'll have to suspend service temporary, at least now we know when.
Speaking of work on the line, has anyone driven down Belt Line at Rock Island in Irving and seen that massive rail overpass being built? I didn't have time to drive down R.I. to measure it, but it looks like it's 10 miles long! Ok, I'm exaggerating, but it's a monster. It graphically demonstrates the difference between the climbing power of an electric LRT car and a diesel-powered "I think I can I think I can" freight train.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Dart's Kinkishyaro light rail cars maximum grade is 7%. Dart limits them to 6%. Conventional heavy freight and passenger trains maximum grade are 4%, most are usually just 3%. Therefore, the light rail trains can climb a grade twice as steep.
6% would be the equivalent to a vertical climb of 6 feet over 100 feet of horizontal distance To climb 18 feet, Dart trains need 300 feet (a football field) to climb and another 300 feet to descend. Dart rarely uses that high a grade, usually up to between 4% to 5%. But conventional trains, at 3%, need 600 feet to climb and another 600 feet to descend, 1200 feet, around a quarter mile. If Dart decided to use a 2% grade, that's a total of 1800 feet, around a third of a mile. Don't forget, freight trains can use the TRE line, and freight trains can be very long.
Last edited by electricron; 26 September 2008 at 09:59 PM.
TRE to offer new departures, tweaked schedules
9:36 PM Sun, Sep 28, 2008
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/a...rtures-tw.html
The Trinity Railway Express will offer new early-morning westbound trips for patrons of its commuter rail line, and provide more eastbond trips in rush hour as well. The changes, along with dozens of others, take effect Oct. 6.
The commuter rail service, which has seen increased ridership for much of this year, will also offer a new late-night trip, leaving Dallas' Union Station at 11:45 p.m., and arriving to the west at the CentrePort Station in Fort Worth at 12:15 a.m.
More information about the schedule changes, which include new arrival and departure times for many other routes, can be found here. A full schedule -- effective Oct. 6 -- is maintained the TRE's site, here.
The TRE is jointly operated by DART and The T, in Fort Worth. In August, about the commuter line provided a daily average of about 11,000 rides, nearly 20 percent more than August, 2007.
It looks like DART & Co will be doing some work between Medical/Market Center Station and Victory Station over the Thanksgiving weekend. I wonder if they'll be opening up the new double-track segment?
Route(s) Affected: Trinity Railway Express
Effective Date: 11/27/2008
http://www.dart.org/rideralerts/fullRArss.asp?id=588
TRE Service During Thanksgiving Week
Trinity Railway Express (TRE) customers are advised of several service modifications during the upcoming Thanksgiving holidays.
SPECIAL SCHEDULES
The TRE will not operate on Thanksgiving Day, Thursday, Nov. 27. On Friday, Nov. 28, the TRE will observe its modified Saturday schedule. On Saturday, Nov. 29, a normal Saturday schedule will be in effect.
BUS SUBSTITUTION
Due to construction, there will be no train service between Dallas Union Station, Victory Station and Medical/Market Center Station on Friday and Saturday. DART bus shuttles will be in operation, serving all three stations, on both days. Buses will leave Union Station at regularly scheduled TRE departure times and will meet all trains arriving at Medical/Market Center.
HOCKEY SERVICE
To accommodate fans attending the Dallas Stars-San Jose Sharks game on Friday night, special game buses will meet the 6:43 p.m. train at Medical/Market Center Station and return to the station immediately following the game.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
The TRE calls this project Lisa-Perkins. From DART last January:As of September, they expected one track to be complete by December, with the project complete in May '09. I suppose that means they'll use the new bridge after Thanksgiving, while they tear down and replace the existing bridge.Extension of the double track from the Lisa Control Point to the East Perkins Control point near Market Center Boulevard in Dallas - project is currently under construction by DARTaka bustitution
The TRE is ordering four more Bombardier BiLevel coach cars, and apparently will be ordering two more EMD diesel locomotives very soon.
Apparently DCTA will be leasing or using the TRE's RDCs initially (late 2010 to late 2011).
I wonder how many locomotives ahd passenger cars will be required to replace them when they are being used by the DCTA? Are two new locomotives and four new cars enough?
Last edited by electricron; 20 November 2008 at 08:39 AM.
It sounds like a good way to expand for future demand ahead of time, and should help with major maintenance scheduling.
* Figure that the TRE has a few cars left over that DCTA can use. They get paid for DCTA's use of their old cars.
* Add the new equipment to the TRE fleet. TRE customers get that "new car" feeling.
* DCTA's equipment comes in, and the TRE gets the borrowed cars back. Those cars, the oldest in the fleet, get a rebuild and upgrade.
* As upgraded older cars come on line, the new cars can be taken out of service for their own upgrades.
* By the time all the cars have been upgraded, the additional sections of double-track will allow improved service frequency. Also, the SW-NE line in FW should be pretty far along by then.
I'm just guessing, of course. E-Ron, do you concur with the concept?
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I think that EMD is out of the commuter locomotive business. The MPXpress seems to be the locomotive of choice for agencies whose mechanical forces are familiar with the EMD product line, since they incorporate many of the same components as the EMD’s (including the prime mover).
The best news? From DART's Operations Committee meeting of 10/14/08:Mr. Friesner added DART has not experienced a decline in ridership because of falling gas prices, but rather the ridership has increased on the TRE, setting an all time record even with prices freefalling in October. Mr. Friesner continued that another big jump in 2011 will occur with the completion of DART's large capital projects, at that time staff will come to the Board and ask permission to add express trains and more service.
Very interesting news about express trains. Since Friesner is cited as "Vice President Commuter Rail", I assume he's talking about express service on the TRE. Which begs the question... how could the line be any more "Express" then it is now? What stations, exactly, would be omitted in a run of the Trinity Railway Express Express?
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Maybe a T&P to CentrePort/DFW Airport express trains like the existing Union Station to CentrePort/DFW Airport express train.
Wouldn't they have to have more double tracks in Tarrant County to provide "Express" services there? At least provide double tracks at all Tarrant County stations, so the "Express" train can pass the "Local"?
Are they double tracking in Dallas or Tarrant County now? I believe they are just in Dallas County, therefore providing more "Express" trains would have to be limited to Dallas County, that is, unless they start double tracking more in Tarrant County soon.
I also believe the RDCs are fast approaching the end of life. Most are more than 50 years old and approaching 60 years. Is it wise to spend a half a million to a million each refurbishing them again when new Bombardier cars cost only twice as much. UTA is spending a half million to refurbish old NJT Comet cars, which are 20 years younger than the RDCs and as just passengers cars, they don't pollute. Can the RDCs' engines be fixed to meet EPA Tier II emission standards? I don't think so. At some point in time, they'll be ripe for scrap.
For mid day service, they could buy some new Colorado Railcars, or another FRA compliant DMU, assuming one European DMU manufacture could meet the FRA standards. Last August, I thought I read at one Dart Board meeting that Stadler could meet FRA standards with their GTW DMUs just by building stronger passenger cabins.
Here's a photo of a FRA non compliant train ordered by Austin CapMetro.
Snce the "T" is going to have to buy many FRA compliant DMUs to run on FWWR, UP, and Cotton Belt rails, that DCTA is also looking at buying FRA compliant DMUs, and Dart will want FRA compliant DMUs for the Cotton Belt too, there might be a sufficient number or train orders from all three transit agencies to encourage an European DMU manufacture to build stronger FRA compliant DMUs. Wouldn't that be cool if they did?
Colorado Railcar has been having problems paying their subcontractors, so much that Portland's TriMet and Alaska RR are buying the parts for Colorado Railcar from the subcontractors directly. Even with transit agency involvement in purchasing the parts, Colorado Railcar has delivered TriMet's three powered DMUs and one passenger car months late. I don't think the "T" or DCTA will want to do this significant oversight over Colorado Railcar to get their significantly more numbers of trains delivered on time. Colorado Railcar history for on time delivery is terrible. They are not set up for mass production, they're more like a custom build shop.
Last edited by electricron; 20 November 2008 at 11:34 PM.
The "express" routes I'm referring to are the ones already in existence. The train runs during "non-peek" hours and doesn't run the length of the line. Maybe there will be more of the same but instead of Dallas-DFW, FT-DFW.
OK, I'll take a guess. The first pair of (express) trains I'd add would be an AM peak eastbound, and a PM peak westbound. The morning train would originate at T&P, stop at ITC and Richland Hills, then run express to Medical/Market, before terminating at DUS. The evening train would make the same stops going back to T&P.
Work should start soon (if it hasn’t already) on a new siding at the Richland Hills station, but to answer your question: no, not necessarily. An express could leave the T&P station five minutes prior to the next scheduled local, and still not overtake the previous local until it was in Dallas county (if it overtakes the previous train at all).
These are not express trains. They either are flip-backs, or are entering or leaving service at the maintenance facility located west of the West Irving station. Express trains skip one or more regular stops (Victory doesn’t count) between their origin and destination.
Last edited by PennStation; 22 November 2008 at 01:47 PM.
Then and than are two different words.
It's the same company, just under a different corporate entity today! GM sold its EMD (D=division) in 2004, which is now EMD (D=diesel) today.I think that EMD is out of the commuter locomotive business. The MPXpress seems to be the locomotive of choice for agencies whose mechanical forces are familiar with the EMD product line, since they incorporate many of the same components as the EMD’s (including the prime mover).
The best news? From DART's Operations Committee meeting of 10/14/08:
MPXpress is an EMD (Electro Motive Diesel) locomotive. It's been made in three models to date, but customers are free to customize their orders;
TheMP40PH-3C: 4,000 THP, separate diesel HEP
MP36PH-3C: 3,600 THP, separate diesel HEP
MP36PH-3S: 3,600 THP, static inverter HEP
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress
The MPXpress line of locomotives were the first production passenger locomotives to meet EPA Tier 1 emissions regulations, as well as FRA safety regulations regarding crash-worthiness, fire and software safety. The line also meets APTA crash-worthiness standards.
Numerous public transit agencies in Canada and the United States have ordered MPXpress locomotives for their commuter rail services, such as Caltrain, UTA FrontRunner, GO Transit, Metra, Metrolink, New Mexico Rail Runner Express, Northstar, and West Coast Express. Looks like the TRE will be joining this list soon.
The TRE's existing diesel locomotives were built by GM's EMD (Electro Motive Division). TRE uses two different models today;
F59PH: 3100 HP
F59PHI: 3200 THP, separate diesel HEP
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F59PHI
The F59PH was the first in the "F59" Series of locomotives. They were built from 1988-1994. GO Transit of Toronto, Canada designed the engine, and General Motors Diesel, or GMD, in London, Ontario, Canada, built them. 72 F59PHs were made. There was a front and rear platform, and a Canadian comfort cab design borrowed from the SD60M, which is similar to Canadian diesels, such as the SD40-2W locomotive designed for the Canadian National Railway. The most notable difference between the F59PH series and these other locomotive designs is that the F59PH has an enclosed carbody, while the others have exterior walkways and railings from the cab to the rear of the locomotive.
The F59PH is still used today, mainly on commuter railroads. The railroads that own and operate F59PH locomotives are:
GO Transit, Toronto, Canada
Metrolink, Los Angeles, California
Trinity Railway Express, Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
The Electro-Motive Diesels F59PHI diesel-electric locomotive is a common locomotive on passenger trains in North America, built by General Motors Electro-Motive Division since 1993. More than 72 F59PHI were built as of 2002. F59PHI locomotives are currently operated by these companies:
Agence métropolitaine de transport
Amtrak
Amtrak California
Metrolink (Southern California)
North Carolina Department of Transportation (Piedmont)
San Diego Coaster
Sound Transit
Trinity Railway Express
West Coast Express (Vancouver)
The F59PHI has a fully enclosed carbody which provides protected walkways for easy access to the engine room and trailing units. This arrangement allows routine maintenance while the locomotive is in service. The noteworthy aspect of this locomotive's exterior is the use of composites to present a streamlined appearance.
To supply electrical power for passenger service, the F59PHI is equipped with a secondary electrical generator referred to as the Head End Power (HEP) unit. The head-end generator generates AC power at 480 V AC 750 amps or about 500 kW to provide power to the passenger carriages for lighting, electric heating, and air conditioning. The head-end generator is powered by a second diesel engine dedicated to it. With this arrangement, the prime mover is not burdened by head-end power generation and consequently is used solely for supplying tractive effort.
Last edited by electricron; 22 November 2008 at 11:00 AM.
No. Electro-Motive Diesel has a long history as a part of General Motors, while MotivePower traces its roots to Morrison Knudsen.
Even though……they were not designed, and are not produced, by EMD.
The [MPXpress] locomotives will contain a number of major components produced by Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc., including diesel engines, generators, traction motors and microprocessor control equipment.
Last edited by PennStation; 22 November 2008 at 02:21 PM.
Then and than are two different words.
Ok then maybe there will be flip-backs from FT-DFW.
There was something on Fox 4 News the other night about the crossing signals being upgraded at the tracks and Market Center. The traffic light will also be re-timed because "a dangerous number of cars gets stuck between the crossing arms and there have been several cars hit by trains" at that intersection
After the double tracking is done and without any stops in between, how long will it take to get from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort Worth?
The distance for the entire route is 34 miles. At 60 mph average speeds, in some places the train goes slightly faster and others slightly slower, it'll take 34 minutes to travel from downtown Fort Worth to downtown Dallas. Keep in mind, the top operating speed for the tracks is rated at 79 mph, but I doubt every foot of the track is rated that high. If all the tracks were rated that high and the train actually achieves 79 mph for the entire distance, the TRE could travel the 34 miles in approximately 26 minutes.
Last edited by electricron; 23 November 2008 at 12:00 PM.
2 locomotives and 4 cars is essentially 2 new trains. 1 locomotive and 2 cars.
There are 2 locomotives at the TRE yard that are not painted in the TRE colors. They look similar to the F58PH but the sides are not enclosed. They are painted with a blue base with yellow accents. I don't recognize the color scheme. Are these the two new locomotives? They've been there since summer...
I don't think so, because the TRE hasn't ordered them yet.
I also don't think they will be ordering used locomotives, just to prevent mass ordering of new locomotives 20 years from now. Better to spread the replacement orders out over a few years.
Flip-back, when talking about commuter rail, refers to a train that originates at the main city terminal, terminates well short of the end of the line, and returns to the city terminal to pick up more outbound passengers. The train returns to the city either with or without passengers, and if carrying passengers, may be anything from an all-stops local, to an express train skipping all stops en route to the main terminal. The reason for using a flip-back is to keep that particular trainset where it will do the most good – on the busy part of the line.Originally Posted by NThomas76207
The "express" routes I'm referring to are the ones already in existence. The train runs during "non-peek" hours and doesn't run the length of the line. Maybe there will be more of the same but instead of Dallas-DFW, FT-DFW.
Originally Posted by PennStation
These are not express trains. They either are flip-backs, or are entering or leaving service at the maintenance facility located west of the West Irving station. Express trains skip one or more regular stops (Victory doesn’t count) between their origin and destination.
Originally Posted by NThomas76207
Ok then maybe there will be flip-backs from FT-DFW.
The current TRE schedule shows eight weekday trains that leave Dallas US and terminate prior to Ft Worth – seven to CentrePort/DFW, and one to Hurst/Bell. My best guess is that only three of these eight trains are flip-backs. The remainder probably go back to the yard.
The TRE, being bi-polar (i.e., having two anchor cities - Ft Worth and Dallas), will never have a schedule that looks exactly like other agencies’ mono-pole* systems, but I think that our flip-backs perform the same function as they do elsewhere – to keep the equipment on the high-demand side of the line. As demand rises on the western side of the line, fewer trains would reverse direction, instead, they would simply continue all the way to Ft Worth T&P. The only reason that I can think of to have Ft Worth-CentrePort flip-backs would be if the Tarrant County side of the line were to ever become the more heavily patronized.
* mono-pole used with apologies to electricron
Last edited by PennStation; 24 November 2008 at 02:37 PM.
Then and than are two different words.
Agenda – DART’s Regional Rail Right-of-Way (RRROW) Company Meeting, Tuesday, December 9, 2008
Amtrak service between Chicago, San Antonio and Los Angeles comes to the Dallas/Fort Worth area twice per day - the train to Los Angeles is scheduled to arrive at Union Station at 12:00 pm and the train from Los Angeles is scheduled to arrive at Union Station at 3:40 pm. Those trains currently travel between Dallas' Union Station and Fort Worth's Amtrak Station located at the Intermodal Transportation Center (ITC) across the Union Pacific Railroad's (UPRR) mainline track between the two cities.
Approval of this item will help achieve the Strategic Plan Management Objectives of Improve Efficiency and Build Relationships with Stakeholders.
In order to move between the UPRR Corridor and the ITC Station, Amtrak must move through the UPRR-controlled Tower 55 with three separate moves by each train.
Tower 55 is one of the nation's worst railroad junctions in terms of at-grade freight traffic movements and the subject of a long term and comprehensive study by the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) to not only improve freight service in the region but also to reduce air pollution generated by freight trains waiting to move through the Tower.
A short term solution identified in the on-going NCTCOG study is for Amtrak to operate on the TRE Corridor rather than the UPRR Corridor which would eliminate 2 of the 3 moves that each Amtrak train currently makes through Tower 55.
As this study has progressed, interest in the movement of Amtrak onto the TRE Corridor has been expressed not only by UPRR, Amtrak and NCTCOG, but also interest by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) Railway, the other predominate user of Tower 55. Finally, congressional interest has also been expressed at the behest of UPRR, BNSF and Amtrak.
In on-going negotiations between UPRR and the T for access from the TRE Corridor to Tower 60 on the DART-owned Cotton Belt Corridor for its Southwest to Northeast Rail Corridor Project, UPRR has set forth as a condition precedent to substantive negotiations agreement to move Amtrak onto the TRE Corridor. Whether that project is finalized as a T project or becomes part of the DART Cotton Belt business opportunity initiative, the access issue from Tower 60 to the ITC Station must be timely resolved with the UPRR.
Meetings and discussions concerning the potential move of Amtrak service onto the TRE Corridor have occurred over the past several years with the various public and private stakeholders impacted by the move. As the potential use of the Cotton Belt Corridor for commuter rail service between Fort Worth and the Plano/Richardson area and the need to find a solution to the Tower 55 problem have intensified, the need for resolution of this outstanding issue has intensified.
Preliminary discussions have advanced to the point that the parties are ready to enter the negotiation of business points with the goal of drafting an agreement to be brought to the Boards of DART and the T for approval.
Through its role in these negotiations, DART will establish its leadership in national and regional rail freight and passenger solutions, and will facilitate development of commuter rail passenger service on the Cotton Belt Corridor.
Last edited by PennStation; 09 December 2008 at 02:33 AM.
Then and than are two different words.
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