DFW: Service and Airline Cuts

[CARTMAN]

I got one of those pop ups when I logged into Dallasnews.com for Spirit Airlines. I went to check out the specials and DFW is not listed there. Please, tell me we didn't loose another airline at DFW? This is crazy!

[dfwcre8tive]

Spirit, not Sprint


Two low-cost carriers reduce service at D/FW
10:58 PM CDT on Thursday, September 7, 2006
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....79c18fd1.html

Two low-cost carriers have trimmed their schedules at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

AirTran Airways Inc. suspended its daily Las Vegas service on Tuesday and is scheduled to stop flying to Baltimore on Nov. 7. Service to both cities is expected to resume in the spring, airport officials said Thursday. The carrier cited a seasonal drop in service and higher fuel costs.

AirTran, which also serves Chicago Midway from North Texas, made similar schedule reductions to its Baltimore service last year.

Spirit Airlines, which offered twice weekly service to its hub in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., stopped service from North Texas last month.

The carrier, which launched daily service earlier this year, previously cited fuel costs and a fleet change for the schedule reduction. Airport officials said Thursday that Spirit indicated plans to return to the market but did not know when.

Suzanne Marta

[GuerillaBlack]

I was about to say, "Since when did Sprint have its own airline."

[UptownDallas]

I got one of those pop ups when I logged into Dallasnews.com for Spirit Airlines. I went to check out the specials and DFW is not listed there. Please, tell me we didn't loose another airline at DFW? This is crazy!

Yep... their excuse of "fuel costs and a fleet change" doesn't really fly-- at the same time they pulled down the DFW service, they were expanding elsewhere.

AA did provide some amazingly good deals to the places Spirit flew to while they were around. Amazingly, those fares don't seem to be around any longer.

My favorite destination was the Dominican Republic. AA typically charges half a new borne for flights from DFW-Santo Domingo. During the Spirit service, they actually reduced their fares to be somewhat comparable to whay they charge out of markets where they face competition.

[grantboston]

They still have 30 more A319s on order. Last time I was at DFW (about a month or so ago) I saw the Spirit jet bridge and labels on everything. They haven't completely pulled up shop. Of course, returning to DFW could be lower on their list than other locations.

[CARTMAN]

Yep... their excuse of "fuel costs and a fleet change" doesn't really fly-- at the same time they pulled down the DFW service, they were expanding elsewhere.

AA did provide some amazingly good deals to the places Spirit flew to while they were around. Amazingly, those fares don't seem to be around any longer.

My favorite destination was the Dominican Republic. AA typically charges half a new borne for flights from DFW-Santo Domingo. During the Spirit service, they actually reduced their fares to be somewhat comparable to whay they charge out of markets where they face competition.

Sorry, about the typo. LOL But, hell I bet we would love even if Sprint did offer airline service from DFW at this point. Well, Air France said the same thing about "fuel costs" (and just expanded in Seattle) and they still haven't returned.

[DFW75209]

As well as Shannon from Chicago

On airliners.net:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3421058/

From the employee web site.

---AA TO WITHDRAW DFW-ZRH, ORD-SNN ROUTES IN FALL---
American plans to discontinue flying its routes between DFW and
Zurich, Switzerland, and between Chicago O'Hare and Shannon, Ireland,
this fall. The DFW-ZRH route will stop flying Oct. 28, and the
Shannon route will end Oct. 1, 2007. The decision continues
American's long-term focus on managing the business to achieve
sustained profitability. Both routes have been unprofitable for some
time, further weakened by high jet fuel costs, as well as the loss of
codeshare traffic out of Zurich. In the case of Shannon, American has
been required to fly there by the Irish government as a condition of
also serving Dublin.

[CARTMAN]

Maybe they can reinstate the DFW-Madrid route?

[Geaux Tigers]

I heard about this. I wouldn't mind a little DFW-Dublin action as well.

[Vicman]

http://www.ata.com/

ATA Airlines suddenly shut down after losing a military contract. It served DFW until its end, flying to Chicago-Midway and Cancun. http://tz.flightlookup.com/routemap/...apping_002.php

It was one of three airlines (the others being Aloha Airlines and Skybus Airlines) to close in one week. In addition Champion Air is closing in May. http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/04/04...tcy/index.html

[grantboston]

Came into DFW last night. The "ATA Graveyard" is over at the Terminal E satellite. There were 3-4 DC-10s and a few other aircraft. Brings back memories of the Braniff shutdown.

[staplesla]

I was waiting for my Continental flight the other day in Terminal E and noticed 50+ people standing around at the ATA gates. They all were pissed and all the gates were unattended. I didn't know at the time what was going on. I felt sorry for all of them when I heard some representative finally come out and tell them to all just file a claim with the bankruptcy court or dispute the charge on their credit cards.

[shaun3000]

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

[Vicman]

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Whups, I didn't realize there was a forum that could be more relevant to this... Mods may move this topic if they wish

Anyhow, I know that ATA used to go to Houston, but the airline stopped flying to Bush Intercontinental (IAH), then at a later time it started and then stopped flying to Hobby (HOU).

I do wonder if any airlines will go after Skybus...

[shaun3000]

Skybus wasn't really a shocker. Seriously, $10 tickets? I know it was only a few seats but still, that's nuts. And charging for pillows, blankets, drinks, checked luggage. On top of that, if you had a connection, you would have to claim your luggage and recheck it. So you're paying TWICE to check your bag. No order, what-so-ever, to seating. Disabled people, people who pay a premium to board first, and then the mad rush of everyone else. Oh, and you can't bring your own food or drink onboard. Hell, even regular buses let you bring your own food and drinks on! I'm sure it was cheap but not worth the indignity, in my opinion. It seems many people shared my opinion.

Edit: They also paid their employees shit. Flight attendants were paid $9/hr and no per diem. They worked on a commission, receiving 10% of any sales on their flights. Pilots were paid significantly below the industry standard, with the rest made up with stock options. (Riiiiiiight) Oh, and non-union. I generally don't like unions, but ALPA is one of the few that I think justifies its existence.

[grantboston]

I was with you up until here...

I generally don't like unions, but ALPA is one of the few that I think justifies its existence.

Otherwise, I think we can chalk up the Skybus experience as a failed attempt to bring the easyjet/Ryanair model to the US. Had Skybus been able to get a foothold in major markets (or least 50 miles away from them), it might have done better.

Sun Country, Expressjet, Virgin America, you're next...

[shaun3000]

I was with you up until here...

Care to elaborate? I like ALPA for several reasons. First, they work very hard to get fair contracts for pilots. Major airline pilots generally make a nice living but the regional pilots and those who fly for Skybus and the like don't. And it's not exactly a stable career. You can be making $80,000 a year one day and out of a job the next. There are other considerations on top of that, such as time off, rest time, per diems, etc etc. It's not a 9-to-5 job, it's an as-long-as-it-takes job. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

And even more important than the contracts, if you ask me, is the legal support they provide. For whatever reason, the powers that be feel it necessary to screw a pilot as badly as possible if he makes a mistake, even a minor one. Even a minor fine from the FAA can end a pilots commercial career. (I'm not talking about unsafe pilots, I'm talking about mistakes everyone makes and some unfortunate few get the book thrown at them) ALPA stands behind flight crews 100% and will provide legal support they otherwise couldn't afford. And even if it's not the feds, the airline can be equally as vengeful. ALPA steps up to protect the pilot.

[grantboston]

Care to elaborate? I like ALPA for several reasons. First, they work very hard to get fair contracts for pilots. Major airline pilots generally make a nice living but the regional pilots and those who fly for Skybus and the like don't. And it's not exactly a stable career. You can be making $80,000 a year one day and out of a job the next. There are other considerations on top of that, such as time off, rest time, per diems, etc etc. It's not a 9-to-5 job, it's an as-long-as-it-takes job. See: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

And even more important than the contracts, if you ask me, is the legal support they provide. For whatever reason, the powers that be feel it necessary to screw a pilot as badly as possible if he makes a mistake, even a minor one. Even a minor fine from the FAA can end a pilots commercial career. (I'm not talking about unsafe pilots, I'm talking about mistakes everyone makes and some unfortunate few get the book thrown at them) ALPA stands behind flight crews 100% and will provide legal support they otherwise couldn't afford. And even if it's not the feds, the airline can be equally as vengeful. ALPA steps up to protect the pilot.

Not to hijack this thread and take it into the murky waters of airline labor relations, but I generally find airline unions to be too effective for their own good. While the ALPA is certainly not as bad as the irrational, simply crazed APA, they still act as a roadblock to changes the industry desperately needs.

Labor costs didn't kill ATA, but under ALPA's negotiations, they nearly killed United a few years ago and are presently holding up a merger between Northwest and Delta.

Airline unions certainly provide some useful services to their members. However, they seem to be hell bent on treating airlines as if they are still these bloated, money hoarding companies of the pre-deregulation years. As sympathetic as a I am to average airline employee who has a fairly tough lot, their unions often exacerbate a difficult financial situation at airlines by demanding pay increases companies cannot afford.

[St-T]

Unions suck.

[TexasPlus]

Airline unions certainly provide some useful services to their members. However, they seem to be hell bent on treating airlines as if they are still these bloated, money hoarding companies of the pre-deregulation years. As sympathetic as a I am to average airline employee who has a fairly tough lot, their unions often exacerbate a difficult financial situation at airlines by demanding pay increases companies cannot afford.

It is all about attitude and respect on both sides.

The airline with one of the highest paid work forces, a constantly high employee satisfaction rating in survey after survey, has the fewest employees per airplane, is always at or near the lowest in customer complaints, and carries the most passengers per year, just happens to also be the most highly unionized.
So lumping all airlines or all union locals into one category is simply not accurate.

[grantboston]

It is all about attitude and respect on both sides.

The airline with one of the highest paid work forces, a constantly high employee satisfaction rating in survey after survey, has the fewest employees per airplane, is always at or near the lowest in customer complaints, and carries the most passengers per year, just happens to also be the most highly unionized.
So lumping all airlines or all union locals into one category is simply not accurate.

I assume you're talking about Continental? If so, it's not as if they have a sterling record of relations with their unions. Just look back to the two bankruptcies of the Frank Lorenzo era. Things are better now, but that has not always been the case.

It is certainly possible for airline unions and management to get along; Continental certainly seems to prove that rule at present. But, airline unions writ large have to be the most unrealistic, selfish and destructive unions around. The number of airlines that have died because of failed labor negotiations is a lengthy one. Pretty soon we'll be able to add Alitalia to that list.

[interestedobserver]

I assume you're talking about Continental?

Nah, he's talking about SWA.

[TexasPlus]

Nah, he's talking about SWA.

Correct.

[TexasPlus]

The number of airlines that have died because of failed labor negotiations is a lengthy one.

That is true. in those cases I never have been able to understand why both sides seem more than willing to shoot themselves in the foot, and other body parts.

[grantboston]

That is true. in those cases I never have been able to understand why both sides seem more than willing to shoot themselves in the foot, and other body parts.

Nor do I. That's why I generally have very little respect for airline unions.

Your point about Southwest is well taken. I think they generally prove the exception to the rule; that's true of many things SWA does.

It should be noted that some airline analysts (Mike Boyd, Holly Hegeman, and some others) seem to think that SWA will have the hardest time negotiating with its union in the next round of contract talks. While both sides will probably enter the talks with a good attitude, there's really not much more 'efficiency' that can be squeezed out of the workforce. Combine that with the highest pay rates in the industry, and things should get interesting.

[TexasPlus]

Nor do I. That's why I generally have very little respect for airline unions.

Uhhhh it takes two to tango...

In many cases I see very little difference in attitude demonstrated by management, be it the union management team or the airline management team. Eastern being a classic example.

[grantboston]

Uhhhh it takes two to tango...

In many cases I see very little difference in attitude demonstrated by management, be it the union management team or the airline management team. Eastern being a classic example.

BOHICA!

Good point there. Going forward, I think there is very little airlines can wring out of their unions. This is especially true of those airlines who have frozen their pensions, offloaded that obligation to the government and constructed management friendly contracts in bankruptcy. As costs continue to rise due to increased competition and especially rising fuel costs, maybe, just maybe airlines will start to take steps to reduce costs elsewhere. For the most part, the amount of money saved through increased efficiency from the workforce is being outweighed by massive rises in jet fuel costs. I think you're already starting to see this general phenomenon with the recently grounded airlines, the grounding of regional jets and older aircraft and a reduction of capacity. (It's easier to shut down than to raise fairs or renegotiate union contracts)

Potentially, mergers might help to reduce capacity, and therefore costs, further. As I see it, this misses the point. I tend to think there is not an issue with over-capacity (90% load factors!), but instead a problem with fare pricing. For too long airlines have been reluctant to pass on their increased costs to consumers in terms of higher fares and have instead passed them on to labor.

Perhaps now we're finally beginning to see the industry push costs onto consumers rather than their angry and abused workforce.

[Tnekster]

Airlines find ways to cut costs

5:21 PM Mon, Apr 28, 2008 | Permalink
Laura Jacobus E-mail News tips
http://extrablog.dallasnews.com/arch...-cut-cost.html

As they try to cope with soaring and unpredictable fuel prices, airlines are scrambling to cut money-losing routes, park fuel-guzzling airplanes, boost fees and charges and reduce any unnecessary expenses. Here are some of the steps carriers outlined when they talked to industry analysts this month:


American Airlines
Capacity: It will reduce mainline capacity 1.4 percent in 2008 vs. 2007, down 3.6 percent on domestic routes. In the fourth quarter, domestic capacity will be down 4.6 percent from a year earlier. American previously planned to increase its capacity 0.2 percent in 2008.
For American Eagle and other regional partners, capacity will be cut 2.1 percent vs. a February estimate of an 0.6 percent decline.
Fleet: It will ground an unspecified number of MD-80s and three Airbus A300s in 2008. It will also speed up delivery of more efficient Boeing 737-800s, with plans to take delivery of 34 in 2009 and 36 in 2010.
Costs: It implemented a hiring freeze on management and support staff April 1.

AirTran Airways
Capacity: Its capacity in fourth quarter 2008 and all of 2009 will be unchanged year over year. AirTran previously reduced its annual growth rate from 20 percent down to 10 percent.
Fleet: It will add four airplanes in 2008 and finish the year with 141 rather than the originally planned 147. It will end 2009 with 141 aircraft rather than 161 originally planned.
Capital expenditures: AirTran is cutting non-aircraft spending from $25 million to $30 million to $12 million to $18 million.
Finances: It plans to raise $150 million from debt and equity offerings.

Alaska Air Group
Fleet: It will park the last of its 10 fuel-inefficient McDonnell Douglas MD-80 aircraft by Sept. 30, three months ahead of schedule. In 1995, Alaska flew 42 of the MD-80s, which represented 60 percent of its fleet. But it made the decision several years ago and go to an all Boeing 737 fleet.
It is also converting regional carrier Horizon Air to a fleet of 48 Bombardier Q400s turboprop airplanes rather than a mix of three aircraft types and 65 airplanes, including 20 Bombardier regional jets over the next two years. The smaller fleet will require fewer employees.
New and higher fees: On May 21, booking fees through reservations and airport staff will go from $10 to $15; overweight bags will jump from $25 to $50; pet transportation will cost $100, up from $75; handling unaccompanied children will cost $75, up from $30 to $60 on nonstop flights and $60 on connecting flights. The airline will start charging charge coach passengers $25 for checking a second bag sometime this summer.
Route system: Alaska and Horizon likely will move up to 5 percent of their existing capacity to better routes and markets this fall. This spring and summer, it is deploying some aircraft flying some West Coast routes to transcontinental and Hawaiian service.

Continental Airlines
Fleet: Continental is parking 14 older Boeing 737 aircraft as they come off lease between September and April, in addition to 34 Boeing 737s previously set to be removed from service through next year.
Capacity: Mainline capacity will be down 5 percent on an annualized basis starting in the fall. Regional jet capacity will also be reduced by some amount this fall.

Delta Air Lines
Fleet: Delta is removing 15 to 20 of its MD-80s, Boeing 757s and Boeing 767s and 70 of its 50-seat regional jets from its operations by year's end.
Capacity: It expects system capacity to be flat to down 2 percent in the second half of 2008, with domestic capacity to shrink 9 percent to 11 percent.
Employment: It's cutting 700 administrative jobs and 1,300 front-line jobs through normal attrition, voluntary severance and early retirement.
Capital spending: It expects to spend $1.3 billion, down $200 million.
Finances: It expects to produce $150 million through cuts in capital spending, higher productivity and new revenue sources this year, or $350 million on an annual basis.

JetBlue Airways
Capacity: The airline expects to grow 3 percent to 5 percent in 2008, down from the up to 8 percent expansion originally planned this year. In the fourth quarter, capacity will drop 2.8 percent below the same period in 2007, the first year-over-year capacity decline in JetBlue's eight-year history.
Capital spending: It's been cut to $150 million, down from $150 million.
Fees and charges: JetBlue is implementing a $20 charge for a second checked bag as of June 1.

Northwest Airlines
Capacity: It will cut domestic capacity by about 5 percent compared to its original plans.
Fleet: It plans to park 15 to 20 additional aircraft, including DC-9s, Boeing 757s and Airbus A319s and A320s.
Fees and charges: It will charge coach customers $25 for a second checked bag and $100 for additional bags and double fees for overweight bags. Overweight bags will cost $50 each way, up from $25. It has begun charging passengers who want to select particular seats on international flights or within Asia.
Cargo: It has suspended cargo service to Bangkok, Thailand and Singapore, and will suspend service this summer to Guangzhou, China and Taipei, Taiwan. It is retiring three freighters.
Capital expenditures: It's cutting nonaircraft spending to $150 million, down $100 million.
Finances: It is trying to add $100 million annually through new charges, higher productivity and lower costs.

Southwest Airlines
Capacity: It will cut 20 unproductive routes in August. It expects fourth-quarter capacity to be up 1.4 percent over fourth quarter 2007, compared to a previous projection of 4.2 percent and its growth in recent years of 8 to 10 percent. Capacity in 2009 is expected to climb 2 percent to 3 percent, although it may wind up being flat compared to 2008.
Fleet: Southwest will take delivery of 14 aircraft in 2009, compared to the 28 previously ordered. For 2010, Southwest will have 22 airplanes on firm delivery or with options to buy, down from 34. It intends to buy 29 aircraft in 2008 but get rid of 22 other airplanes for a net growth of seven airplanes. It previously cut back plans to grow by 34 aircraft in 2008. It may keep some of the 22 airplanes if other airlines' shrinkage provides growth opportunities.
United Airlines
Capacity: By the fourth quarter, capacity in domestic markets will be about 9 percent lower than a year earlier, which itself was down 5 percent from 2006.
Fleet: It will park 30 older, less efficient airplanes.
Fees and charges: It is implementing a $25 charge for a second checked bag.
Cost-cutting and layoffs: United will eliminate 500 salaried and management jobs and 600 other jobs this year. It has targeted $200 million in non-fuel expenses on top of a $200 million goal previous announced.
Capital spending: The $650 million in planned expenditures has been cut by $200 million.

US Airways
Capacity: It plans to reduce capacity by up to 4 percent in the second half of 2008.
Fleet: US Airways is returning six Boeing 737-300 aircraft when leases expire in the latter part of 2008 and early 2009.
Fees and charges: It estimates it will raise $70 million this year from such steps as charging $25 for a second checked bag, charging passengers for the right to pick the best seats when they make seating assignments, etc.
Fares: It is modifying its fare structure to set floors on pricing, based on distance. For example, it says it won't offer sale fares below $69 for flights of less than 500 miles, with similar floors on longer-distance flights.
Capital spending: It cut $75 million from its capital expenditures for the remainder of the year.

SOURCES: The airlines, Dallas Morning News research

[downtownguy25]

Granted jetblue does not fly into dfw but unlimited flights for a month for 600 bucks is not bad.

http://www.jetblue.com/deals/all-you...ou-Can-JetPass

[aygriffith]

Granted jetblue does not fly into dfw but unlimited flights for a month for 600 bucks is not bad.

http://www.jetblue.com/deals/all-you...ou-Can-JetPass

You can hop one of the many WN or AA flights to Austin and hop on from there. Depending on who you fly to New York, it would probably be cheaper and quicker to do that than fly WN which stops a few time between Dallas and NYC.