No one walks in Uptown, no matter how many times you post it on an internet bulletin board.
I agree, I see a lot of people walking around Uptown. Especially in the Spring and Summer, and with more growth in the area I think the pedestrian population will only go up.
No one walks in Uptown, no matter how many times you post it on an internet bulletin board.
So are my wife and I are driving without realizing it?
We are just magically showing up at restaurants in Uptown without any apparent mode of transport? Not a car, motorcycle, or even a horse in sight?
We must have some kind of magical powers just like Harry Potter.
Your car isn't in sight because it was valet parked a few blocks away.
How many people take the trolley per week? These people must be doing some walking...
Not counting the homeless, I'd say 20-30.How many people take the trolley per week?
http://www.mata.org/events.shtml
"The Dallas Morning News reports that about 11,000 people rode MATA in November 2002. A survey showed that the majority of riders take MATA to work or to school. About 16% use our streetcars to get to shopping, entertainment or business meetings"
It's encouraging that our homeless populace is educated and employed.
Columbus Civil, your fighting a losing battle here. I go to Uptown at least once a week, and have not driven there in about a year. I take DART, then walk and/or take the trolley to get where I need to go. This month, I've taken (i think) fourteen people with me at various times. Out of six trolley rides in december, five times there were other people on the trolley. I never rode once with someone who appeared to be homeless, and most of the people were 20-somethings using it to get from the WV to a restaurant along McKinney.
There is not a huge number of people that walk in Uptown. No one is trying to say that. But saying "no one" is foolish. I'm going down again tonight with a group of about five, and we're going to eat on Main St., then walk or take the trolley to WV. So, tonight, I will be disproving you yet again. If I see any homeless on the trolley, I'll be sure to report it.
Why people have such a hard time believing that some people walk in Uptown, I don't know. It's possible that most of the people I see there are people like me who come from miles away (on the train), or even those that come and park somewhere and then walk to dinner and then somewhere else for dessert or for art or something. But who cares? People walk there. It isn't NYC, it isn't Boston, it's Dallas' Uptown. And as more things develop densely, the more people will be walking.
bloodypopcorn, take pictures and post them. Only then will I believe you. Otherwise, I'll just take it to be another one of your nicotine-fueled delusions.
aceplace said 60-90 people an hour walk on McKinney Avenue.There is not a huge number of people that walk in Uptown. No one is trying to say that.
I don't have a digi camera or a scanner. I'll see if any of my friends do.
And... well, aceplace doesn't count.
Really, though, I had forgotten that he said that, so I apologize for saying 'no one'. Perhaps, "most of us, not including aceplace" would have been more appropriate.
But even with aceplaces comment, 60-90 isn't a very huge number (I would say a "huge" number would be 150+, a moderate number being 100+, with someone strolling by every 30-40 seconds). I would estimate lower, perhaps 30-50 on a saturday afternoon or maybe as many as 60 on a busy evening. I'm not saying in one group, but, it's not terribly odd to see a couple of people walking by every few minutes during Uptown's busier times.
Do you agree, though, that if nothing else, once the borders, retail on the... oh damn, whats it called now, the 20-story residential... anyway, the residential on that is done, there will be surprising ammounts of walking going on, at least in the WV area? Or even wait until WVII is added into the mix. Or do you think people will drive from Borders to whatever restaurant becomes available in WV phase II?
WV2 is unlikely to have any restaurants. Because of the proximity to North Dallas High, you can't serve liquor. That's why the restaurants are clustered at the southwest end of WV1.
very interesting, clipper... btw, has anyone heard anything about the proposed change to the proximity of liquor-serving establishments and schools?
Hey, Columbus Civil, let me know which corner you're standing on with your clipboard doing pedestrian traffic counts. I would like to say hello to you when I walk by.
I find it easier to walk short trips than to wait for the streetcar schedule, especially if it's to "Stop Six" for a couple of pints, since it's counterflow to the direction of the cars.
I think the pedestrian volumes on McKinney Avenue are similar to ridership on the streetcar. If you are not constantly there observing the flow and seeing the people, you will not see it. To drive down McKinney Avenue in an automobile takes all of a couple of minutes and can not give you an accurate assessment. You might get a better idea sitting in one of the restaurant decks or patios, but unless you are actively surveying the flow, your comments are anecdotal at best.
Haretip
14 years on McKinney Avenue.
Why do I need a clipboard? I have ten fingers.
Riding the trolley from its DT terminus to Cafe Express tonight, I made a few observations. First off, we were the only ones on the trolley at first, but a well-groomed man of his late twenties wearing semi-casual attire got on near Americas, the tapas place on McKinney. As we rode, I counted people that I saw walking on the sidewalk. This did not count people getting in or out of their cars, directly in or out of a restaurant, or walking directly from one to the other. It may include people who parked a block or two away and then had to walk from their to a destination. But basically, it consists of what, to me, appears to be "walking" out side of a simple park-and-enter mentality. There were 18 people during that, perhaps, 10 minute, 2 (?) mile period.
No pictures (none of us had cameras), but that's my honest-to-God count. Take it for what you will, positive or negative, I wasn't really surprised. But it was interesting to take special not of people walking/not walking, as I had never consciously searched for "walking" along McKinney before.
Oh, and BTW, with my friends, me, and that well-groomed man, there were at least seven non-homeless patrons of the trolley tonight.
It wont take too much more time before McKinney Ave develops pedestrial activity comparable to Greenville - SoMo. The number of entertainment/dining establishments on McKinney has only recently increased, largely due to the increase in residential population within a few blocks. It's expensive to operate a business along McKinney; as more residential units open, the business will follow as will the pedestrial presence on the street. The nightlife spots which develop along McKinney will fill a void in the overall Dallas scene. Finally there will be a "strip" of primarily upscale venues. Centralizing a large, affluent population uptown will allow the growth of a dressier entertainment destination - something Dallas needs to compliment it's appeal as a travel destination and adding to the completeness of experiences possible. Pleasantly surprising many skeptical visitors to Dallas, is the cohesive entertainment areas. Deep Ellum, Cedar Springs, Lower Greenville each provide a large number of establishments catering to a particular channel of party goers. The promise of a generally upscale entertainment district along ritzy McKinney would add to quite a bit to the city.
How convenient.No pictures (none of us had cameras)
wow, i've never seen this much racket in a single thread at this forum ever. pretty interesting though. this is something you'd usually see in SSP, not here. i find this place more peaceful than ever. however, i guess this topic is spicing things up in here. lol.
well, anyways. my opinion on the currect topic is like most have already pointed out. Dallas is and will probably never be anything like London or New York but guess what, i and many of us shouldn't be expecting that from Dallas. It's in a different category. the sunbelt boom category is where Dallas is placed. when metro areas such as Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston, and DFW are booming with residents from all over, then it's no surprise to see the massive sprawl that starts to eat up every one of these cities. But out of the sunbelters, you've gotta hand it to DFW to probably be the one working most toward changing things with DART in place making great success, the Uptown growth boom, Fort Worth's downtown, etc., I am one who is proud of seeing Dallas' progress.
huh?
I don't know why Columbus Civil is so uncivil about this point, but then again, I don't know why so many of us are so concerned about pedestrian counts on any particular street.
One thing that has come from this thread is that I find myself counting people when I go down McKinney Avenue. Good, bad or otherwise, it is something I have never really thought about.
And since a definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result, I'll stop suggesting to Columbus that using superlatives to describe pedestrian traffic on McKinney is incorrect and just enjoy the progress.
Happy new year, everyone.
Tom Tom Bar Bar serves alcohol and they are located on the opposite end of WV... Now, once you move on the other side of Blackburn you might be right...
There is a large pub on McKinney that had a "for lease" sign on it.
The "for lease" signs are down and there is now a City of Dallas permit packet on the front door.
I can't remember the name. It was Irish and begun with an "O".
That City of Dallas permit has been up there for over a year.
The permit is new and they are definitely doing some construction inside... I drove by this weekend...
Maybe it's a new one. I hope you're right. I remember seeing a permit on the door over a year ago, and nothing happened. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
You and me both! It's a great location for a pub or restaurant...
You guys are talking about the old O'Dowds pub. The lease signs are down and it is a new City of Dallas permit on the door. Actually, we've been discussing this on another thread...maybe we could get the two merged and continue the discussion. I really hope it opens back up as an Irish pub...it would be a waste to rip out all of the interior woodwork that was constructed in Ireland and shipped over. I haven't noticed the construction work inside...I'll have to stop by this evening.
Sorry, just realized they are the same thread...my bad.
Hey c civi, I took some digi pics of McKinney Ave last Friday. Of course, I'm sure you'll find something terribly wrong with them, or complain about the quality, but I counted at least 20 people "walking" between 5:10 and 5:20PM.
PS- the trolley carried 152,049 "homeless people" in FY 2003.......that's over 400 a day. Divide that by total track mileage of 3.6 miles at 20 trips per car per day and crunch those numbers, then get back with me...............
xxoo
PS-- all the for lease signs on McKinney Ave. belong to one very wealthy person who inherited a bunch of his dad's properties and doesn't care about the quality of life of McKinney Ave.
Also, the old site of O'Dowd's is still under contract. They closed it in 2002 but when they opened it and signed the lease in 2001, they signed a five year lease. Andy has no incentive to lease it right now, plus he could care less about it, it's free money and McKinney Ave. suffers. THAT's what the problem is here on McKinney Ave.
Do a test yourself. Take a look at the phone numbers on all the for lease signs. Look familiar???
I looked into lease spaces with that yellow sign. Every property they are listing is overpriced.
Right- Every property in overpriced. I don't think he cares about what he's doing. I know his consultant- and he tried to tell Andy that the properties are overpriced. I think he's using these empty properties as some dort of tax write-off.
I was watching TV yesterday (Jan 8) and on the Atlanta Fox affiliate following the mid-day news, a fashion make-over program came on which was filmed in Dallas. THe show's host approached people on the sidewalks of the West Village. New looks were provided, lessons were learned, West Village (although never refered to by name) looked good on TV.
I'm glad you people FINALLY admitted this.PS- the trolley carried 152,049 "homeless people" in FY 2003.......that's over 400 a day.
And thanks for the pic; the quality is very nice. I'm not sure how showing me a photo of two prostitutes and a Starbucks worker proves anything, but I appreciate your effort.
I ride the trolley down to Albertsons to get groceries and up to cityplace to go to mockingbird station, and to downtown to the arts district. I see alot of people on when I ride.
Of course you do. The roads that the trolley rides on are full of cars.
What is it that you want c.civi? The fact is, there are real human people who actually walk around in Uptown and who also ride the streetcars along McKinney Ave and who are not homeless and who are professionals and we actually know a few of them, so we're not making this up. Why is this such a terrible thing for you to accespt? Or are you just not quite mature enough to have an adult discussion without making absurd and absolute declarations such as "no one walks in Uptown". Look, you chastised blood about not taking pics, I *gasp* walked around last Friday and took pics, now you're chasiting me and making fun of real people by calling them "prostitutes". Grow up or get a job or move out of your mom's basement or do or say something critically CONSTRUCTIVE.
When someone has to resort to personal attacks to get their point across, that's usually a good time to just drop it and move on. I have nothing more to say on this matter.
HOLY CRAP that's a big picture!!!
Last edited by freewaytincan; 19 January 2004 at 03:02 AM.
OMG UL- I just looked at your webpage.............I think I'm going to be sick! And I have a headache!
Yay!Originally posted by Columbus Civil
When someone has to resort to personal attacks to get their point across, that's usually a good time to just drop it and move on. I have nothing more to say on this matter.
Now we can stop this petty argument.
Columbus, you're often great. But every now and then you get these ideas in your head and won't let anything convince you that you just might be wrong.
Why don't you go to McKinney Ave. and ask every pair of girls you see how much it costs for a coupel of hours? See what response you get? Actually, I'd rather you not. I don't want to see you die this young!
Yeah, sorry. Haven't updated it in SO LONG, and tha picture is BLOODY HUGE as well.Originally posted by trolleygirl
OMG UL- I just looked at your webpage.............I think I'm going to be sick! And I have a headache!
There is new sign on the front door of the old O'Dowds pub...I stopped by and took a look at it...it is a request to the zoning board of appeals for a zoning change to change the "Front Yard Setback" requirements. Any ideas what might be going on? Probably going to be torn down and a CVS is going to be built...or a parking lot! All I know is they BETTER reuse all of the interior woodwork! Someone just needs to reopen it as O'Dowds again...oh well, wishful thinking...obviously not going to happen.
I'm sure Shafer Property bought it to put up another crappy "make a quick buck" center... Man- every time I drive by Knox Park Village it makes me ill!!!!!!!!!!!
the permit on the front says they want to set the front wall back for larger outdoor area. I think thats great.
If they're moving the front wall back, doesn't that mean that all that interior will be shot. Also is there any guarantee thatthey aren't asking to move the front wall back so they can put in head-in parking spaces?
If there is a notice on the door about a zoning request there is probably a number to call and a case number so you can call and ask what's going on. Of course I never have pen and paper to write those things down when I notice them.
Plenty of parking already at that property. I am sure they are pulling the wall back to make for for a front patio. This is good news.
There is a blurb in the Observer today about the property. Says it will be pub, and that it will not be very Irish
I walked by again this morning. I don't think it would really make a good spot for parking due to the electrical poles side walk and trees.
Does 'The Idle Rich (Bar)" ring a bell to anyone? Retail and cocktail lounge by each other... (Canton)
Possibly another location for them in the former O'Dowds spot?
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