Uptown: Cityplace West + West Village

**bloodandpopcorn** · 17 May 2003, 06:34 PM

I'd love to see those renderings happen. I love Deep Ellum, but no one will go down there with me for fear of the 'bad types' lingering around the tatoo and boby piercing shops. Some of those shops are very well done, but, i must agree, i don't know why there must be 2-3 on each block.

I'd love to see part of it be 'brighter' and more suitable to biased members of the community, while still keeping the tatoo and boby piercing spots (along with bars, etc. of course) in either the same area, or a location not far away and still an important part of the Deep Ellum area.

**UptownDallas** · 13 June 2003, 01:34 AM

Sadly, the problems continue at West Village. Although the concept was/is sound, the execution has been extremely poor. Crime appears to have dramatically increased, and the owners have recently hired off-duty Dallas police to supplement the security force on weekends---- this was after a large brawl in front of Nikita.

With respect to the residential component, the originally more up-market concept has apparently been abandoned. Maintenance has been cut back dramatically, with common areas in the residential hallways now routinely filthy and littered with debris. Additionally, residential tenants had their reserved parking privileges revoked, but are now actually banned from parking in the retail parking areas, due to the underparking situation. Also, most of the handicapped parking spaces have been illegally restriped and valet parkers have been staking a claim to the public parking along McKinney (although I did see a policeman physically removing the cones and throwing them on the sidewalk last week). Noise levels well in excess of code have continued to be a problem. Although the front-line property managers have been sympathetic, the owners have proven to be largely indifferent. Indeed, they bizarrely insist that trash be removed by using high-decibel leaf blowers at 7 a.m. most mornings (including Sundays!).

Understandably, most of the more expensive residential units have been or are in the process of being vacated and the project appears to be repositioned as more of an upscale college-dorm type living situation. Quite a shame, considering that with more sophisiticated planning and management, the mixed-use aspect of the project could have been a great deal more successful.

**Kelley USA** · 13 June 2003, 10:05 AM

Great post Uptown!! I was actually the very first resident to move into the WV and probably one of the first to leave. For the very same issues you posted are the exact same reasons I left. I thought that management as a whole was very poor-- parking was a disaster and the noise level on weekends was insane. The property seems to be in a decline- it looks worse every time I drive by. Last Saturday night I drove by just to check it out- there were so many people standing out in front of the Paris that traffic was backing up. Security was standing on the corner and nobody even bothered to make them move. During the day I think it's still a fine place to visit- but after 7:00 I'd rather not be there!!!

**mikedsjr** · 13 June 2003, 11:38 AM

West Village maybe needs to be named crime village

**CTroyMathis** · 13 June 2003, 12:06 PM

The only 'action' I've ever seen a security guard take there at WV was to question why I was taking a photo of one of the high-dollar stores. Which of course (it was only indirectly to the side of a framed shot and was not discernable) it had something more to do with a 560 foot structure looming over his seemingly complacent head - across the NCX. Explaining that to him, he just said: 'Oh...k'

Like the explanation was any better...

(He was way too young to be an off-duty DPD officer - this moment long preceeded the new hiring actions.)

So, quality of life is going to shit at the WV? Not good.
Suggestions?

**bloodandpopcorn** · 13 June 2003, 12:42 PM

As long as other properties in the area don't make the same mistakes, we're fine. If the Bryson is really nice at those prices, no one will want to live in West Village, and they will be forced to shape up. As more residential comes in, more people want to come in, and expect good service -- West Village will be left behind if they don't shape up, so, they will.

I think right now it's just "we're all you've got, you don't know better, so screw trying."

It's sad, but, if that really is it, then there is a good chance that it will change in the next few years.

Other than 'dirty corridors', etc., I think most of this griping is just from people not understanding what they've gotten into. Urbania is not a quiet place... and I, for one, and kind of glad to see crowds filling WV... just wish they could fill more than that little area with even higher density, and push the cars out for good. Or at least the Suburbans, SUVs and Pickup trucks.

**aceplace** · 13 June 2003, 12:46 PM

To all of those who believe that "embracing the sleazy side" is the mark of a great metropolis...

Looks like evidence that Dallas has joined the rank of great cities...

**aceplace** · 13 June 2003, 12:51 PM

As for noise...

I stayed in a hotel in Munich, Germany that could have been noisy... I had a room right above the street... but the soundproofing was superb. The room had only one window, and it was as solid as the door on a bank vault. Open it, and hou hear a street racket. Close it and you hear nothing... the insulation was that solid.

The technology exists to avoid noise pollution...

**drycreek** · 13 June 2003, 04:22 PM

I'm sorry but I just don't understand some of the things I'm reading here. Let me get this right, there were so many people in a line that it was blocking traffic... and that was a bad thing? Yet we want to be more like NYC? I don't understand what you guys want. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I was just in NYC in May and it's jam packed everywhere, almost all of the time. So if NYC city is the paramount of cool then what's wrong with the current state of WV? And what about all these renderings of Main street jam packed with people, I thought everybody was for that kind of street life. Or do we really just want Disneyland downtown? I'm sorry but I don't see how a little bit of noise and some crowds and a leaf blower mean that an area is going to the dumper. If peace and quite is what you want then the suburbs are probably a better fit for you. I don't mean to be too harsh, but really, I mean I don't understand the thinking here?

gc · 13 June 2003, 04:33 PM

Excellent point.

**JaeTex** · 13 June 2003, 06:33 PM

It does sound like the complaint about WV is that it was too successful and maybe drove away some tenants who wanted quiet urban life (like downtown Dallas after 6pm

).

Hopefully the pressure on the small area will be alleviated with the new development if some of that includes the desirable restaurant/retail. If the new stuff is just residential then expect the pressure on WV establishments and tenants to increase.

**Haretip** · 13 June 2003, 11:07 PM

Hey everyone, if the glitzy marketing brochures and apartment guides haven't mentioned it yet, the Uptown Area is experiencing an increase in crime. And the remarkable thing is that it didn't start this year.

Uptown has been gaining stature since the early 1980s with millions of dollars invested in businesses, restaurants and residential developments. The "almost-downtown" appeal and new residences have attracted wealthy dotcommer residents, tourists and shoppers. Now the criminals, having a wiley criminal-like mind, have decided to go places to do their bidness where people actually have money. The affluence draws the thugs.

They could roll the poor in South Dallas, but you got to go where the money is to make the big payoff. In my fourteen years of being in the Uptown area, I have seen the increase in crime. From vehicle break-ins and muggings to murder. When the guy was shot and killed in front of the Residences a few years back is when I realized that the thugs decided that Uptown was a good place to ply their trade. Don't blame West Village alone for this.

And, just as I wouldn't go around New York City with a fistfull of twenties hanging out of my shirt pocket, I take the same personal safety steps when working/playing in Uptown. And the great thing about Dallas over New York? Conceal and carry my brother. There isn't a part of Uptown that I don't feel comfortable in. ;-)

Peace & Love

-Haretip

**Columbus Civil** · 14 June 2003, 01:58 AM

To all of those who believe that "embracing the sleazy side" is the mark of a great metropolis...

Looks like evidence that Dallas has joined the rank of great cities...

Now all we need to do is turn West Village into a youth hostel.

**Gen5Dallas** · 15 June 2003, 05:42 AM

I was pretty stunned by the murder in front of the Residences myself.

About a month ago I was walking out of the Walgreen's at Lemmon & McKinney around midnight or so on a weekend when a couple crossed directly in front of me, holding hands, looking like they were in a bit of a daze.

I continued toward my car when I heard "Sir?" and turned around. Out poured a story about how they'd come to Dallas for the day, from Greenville, and gotten jacked returning to their car a block away.

They claimed they'd called DPD, officers responded & filled out a report but told them there was essentially nothing they could do. They wanted money to get back to Greenville.

(I should state here that I'm sucker for panhandlers, to the point that most of my friends think I'm a total chump. Not that you need to know, but self-diagnosis of cause is comb. of: a) liberal guilt [Mom was a Massachusetts-born Kennedy Democrat]; b) You're pretty bad off if you have to resort to beggin' for money; & c) -- most important -- very strong belief in karma, to the point that I'm quite willing to give out more I can ever expect to receive, 'cause when I DO need good luck I REALLY need it.)

So I helped 'em out. Was it a scam? I don't really care, but in this case I'm about 90% sure it wasn't.
>> Their story matched their profile. Yes, they were white, plus they had strong country accents, wore relatively clean clothes, 35-45 yrs old.
>> The male had severe cuts & scabs on his nose, chin & face which they said resulted from the attack.
>> Their story came out real fast & they still seemed pretty shocked by all that had happened -- nothing like the usual poor-me, sad-sack shit.
>> But the clincher was that I'd already noticed this dazed walk across the parking lot, directly in front of me, holding each other's hand. Seemed to line up exactly w/ the experience they related a minute or two later.
>> In retrospect, I can only recall one other encounter w/ a male-female panhandling team, only they don't really work together and are really so very pitiful... All the rest fly solo.

They thanked me & I had a thought... "You know, it's illegal to panhandle here now & the cops will arrest you if they catch you --"
"Oh, we know, we'll keep movin'... thank you --"
"No, what I mean is maybe these desperate people feel like they have to jack people up since they're not allowed to hang out quietly & ask for the money directly anymore."
_____________________

Given the volume of people w/$$ in Uptown, I'm surprised DPD isn't more on top of things.

For the past coupla years I've noticed that from time-to-time, at no particular interval and definitely NOT in response to particular events, DPD is EVERYWHERE in some specified zone.
Then they're gone, only to return on the -what?- third Tuesday of every other month ending in "r" -- ?

On Sharon Boyd' website, dallasarena.com, she charges that DPD has been given the order to increase city revenue by stepping up traffic enforcement. (Everyone seems to think Boyd's a nut, but I for one have to give her some cred because she NAILS former Councilwoman Lori Palmer.)

By the way, does anyone here know if it's still DPD policy to allow officers working off-duty security jobs to WEAR THEIR UNIFORMS, when they'll simply shrug off any request for a reponse if the incident in question did not take place on the premises of their employer?

(It happened to me once: the lump of flesh under the DPD uniform pleasantly informed me that he wouldn't be bothered to even CALL IT IN, much less take a look outside after I told him I got hit in the face w/ a bag of groceries 30 FEET OFF STORE PROPERTY. Lucky for me a bag of Cheetos was stuffed between the side of the sack that hit my face and the canned goods behind. -- see note on karma above.

I'm usually kindofa hothead when I get hit in the face w/ a sack of groceries. but when you're "on paper" retaliation ain't an option.

Sure enough, about 6 months later I was heading up to 7-11 -- late -- just as a car was pulling out w/ A 2 x 2-FT. HOLE SMASHED INTO THE FRONT WINDSHIELD on the driver's side. The car stops and a guy steps out, chest puffed, arms jacked out:

"Whatchoo lookin' at?"
"There's a giant hole in your windshield, dude."
"Yeah, you think I did it?"

& I REALIZE THAT THIS IS THE SAME PSYCHO who'd got all twisted out 'cause I'd glanced a half-second too long at him & his black girlfriend 6 months earlier.

I gave some sort of chucklehead response & kept moving toward the front of the store -- & light. Inside the car I noticed a girl, different from 6 mos. previous, who looked REAL SCARED. Psycho got back in the car.

After I was within leaping distance of the store's front windows, I started yellin', LOUD: "Get yourself away from him! That's about as psycho as it gets! He's gonna kill somebody someday!" Then I bolted inside.

I'm sure the psycho got himself packed off to state jail in short order... Hope the ladies are OK...)

_____________________

That 24-hour Albertson's seems like a magnet for steet creatures.

(The black gal who works the overnight register was so sweet & jolly & funny when she worked at 7-11, but given the volume & randomness of the customers at her new job she has to keep up much more of a poker face. It's a shame, really, but she says Albertson's pays more.)

**Kelley USA** · 16 June 2003, 11:11 AM

Hey drycreek- I'm all for people flocking to the WestVillage and crowding the sidewalks (not the streets). There is a big difference between the type of people we see at WV and those we might see in Deep Ellum or Greenville Ave. etc... Traffic was backed up because these people were simply standing in the streets not bothering to move. It was almost as if the Paris had opened up a bar in the middle of the road. I don't mind decent people who can use a little bit of common sense- but Dallas has too many ignorant and arrogant credit card millionaires who think they own the city (I believe the word is pretentious)!! When I first moved to the WV I certainly understood that I had an apartment that overlooked the restaurants. I can handle the noise- the cars, streetcars the music from the clubs- but what residents shouldn’t have to deal with is giggly, loud, look at my new boobs kind of girls waiting for their cars at the valet at 2 in the morning.

**drycreek** · 16 June 2003, 03:27 PM

ha ha that's hilarious! Thanks for the reply Kelly. I found it to be quite amusing, especially the part about the credit card millionaires. But hey I don't mind too much the giggly little girls with certain endowments whether naturally God given or privately funded! Ha ha, just kidding! If you can't tell I'm still very much the typical college student and don't tend to be bothered to much by giggly girls. Anyway I appreciate the reply.

**chiboi** · 18 June 2003, 07:31 PM

Kelley,

I sympathize, I was driving by West Village in front of the Loon on the other side of the street, and an obviously intoxicated Barbie look-a-like kicked at my car...for no apparent reason. She was teetering so close to the street and oncoming traffic she could have been killed or at the very least needed some more plastic surgery....

**patmns** · 23 June 2003, 10:29 AM

I learned over the weekend that a 2 story Borders Book Store, a 10 story office building, and a bank are slotted to go in the empty lot between the newly built Bryson apartments, and the West Village. Part of this land is currently a grass field, and the other part is being used by the valets at the West Village. It is my understanding that this project is not part of the West Village expansion, but I am not 100% on that.

**psukhu** · 23 June 2003, 10:35 AM

When do they plan to break ground?

**chiboi** · 23 June 2003, 12:04 PM

A Border's store would be awesome for that neighborhood and would be add to the social scene especially if it has a cafe where people can hang out. Let's all hope this happens.

**Kelley USA** · 23 June 2003, 03:36 PM

Border's signed on about a year ago- they've basically been waiting for the WV developers to get things moving. It was my understanding that Border's was going to be part of the 2nd phase of WV- with perhaps a Pier 1 as well. I'm really surprised it's taking them this long to get the next phase underway. The groundbreaking has been pushed back for over 18 months now and the plans keep on changing.

**chiboi** · 23 June 2003, 04:40 PM

Kelley, that is a great location for a Pier One. I doubt they will put in a Crate and Barrel or Pottery Barn since there is one of each so close on Knox Street. Anyhow, I hope the deveolpers start soon.

**patmns** · 24 June 2003, 02:22 PM

From what I understand, West Village and Borders could not come to an agreement, and West Village phase 2 will have Pier 1 in the slot that they had intended for Borders. Borders then went and secured their own land.

gc · 24 June 2003, 02:34 PM

excellent. what else can you share with us patmns?

**Kelley USA** · 24 June 2003, 02:35 PM

That's good information! I think that both will be an excellent fit for the area. I'm surprised that Pier1 has not tried to squeeze in with the other home furnishers on Knox-Henderson-- but this would be a smart move for them. They would have no competition in the WV (Legacy Trading Co. would offer no competition because they are more eclectic and higher priced). Thanks for the info patmns- when do you move into the new digs?

**chiboi** · 24 June 2003, 02:58 PM

Where is the land that Border's has secured?

**patmns** · 24 June 2003, 03:08 PM

That's all the info I have for now. If I get anything new, I will post it here.

I move into the Bryson around July 18th. Hard to say though. You now how new construction due dates are.

**jammin** · 03 August 2003, 10:29 PM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ace.d300c.html

Cityplace to build retail center in Uptown
08/04/2003

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

A year after the popular West Village complex opened in Uptown, developers are about to break ground on a shopping complex across the street.

A Borders bookstore and a bank will occupy the first phase of the one-block development at McKinney and Lemmon avenues, said Neal Sleeper, Cityplace Co. president.

The first building, facing McKinney Avenue, will have 22,000 square feet of retail space in two levels. A second phase behind that will have 30,000 square feet of shopping space plus apartments on the upper levels.

"We expect to start construction this month," Mr. Sleeper said. "It is designed, and we're just waiting for a building permit."

Success of the West Village project just west of North Central Expressway has piqued the interest of other retailers.

West Village has 150,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space and 175 apartments above it.

The project was developed by Miller Interests Inc. and Phoenix Property Co. and designed by Washington-based architect David Schwarz. Mr. Schwarz is also responsible for The Ballpark in Arlington and the American Airlines Center.

The retail center is anchored by the Magnolia theater, Tommy Bahamas, the Gap, Ann Taylor and other stores.

The new Cityplace shopping center, designed by Dallas architects HKS Inc., will open in 2004.

The center and several large apartment buildings will occupy many of the remaining development sites in the Cityplace complex's west side.

In 1990, Cityplace paid about $24 million for the 140 acres that Southland Corp. had bought in the 1980s with plans to build a high-rise office park. The company has sold most of the land for retail and residential construction.

E-mail stevebrown@dallasnews.com

**rantanamo** · 03 August 2003, 11:02 PM

the boom continues. Imagine the skyline of cranes on will be able to see from the levees of the Trinity this time next year stretching from the new From project in the West End all the way north to the Waverly. We may be able to stretch that south a little, as something is going on adjacent to the Camden Farmers Market. Looks like they are creating a block and putting in piping and drainage. Preparing the site for phase II maybe? Anyways, back to this news, would the mentioned block be labeled 7C here considering the Bryson is 7D? Also, considering how accurate the Bryson appears on this rendering, might this new development look very similar to what is there? Exciting to speculate. What a summer of announcements I must say.

**jsoto3** · 04 August 2003, 12:16 AM

I suspect that the development in question is indeed to be located on block 7c. Also, given the accuracy of the Bryson and the Zom project, I believe the rendering to be accurate for atleast this development. It fits the description in the article.

**ibryant** · 06 August 2003, 01:04 PM

From globest.com...

Two-Phase Retail Under Way by Cityplace
By Robert Carr
Last updated: Aug 6, 2003 09:23AM

DALLAS-More retail and multifamily will be added to the massive Cityplace development in the Uptown area of the Dallas.

Cityplace Co. is about to begin construction on a 22,000-sf retail building that will have a two-level Borders bookstore and a Chase Bank branch on the ground floor, with associated parking, says company president Neal Sleeper.

Following that facility, the company will build another building with 30,000-sf of retail and apartments on the upper floor, Sleeper says. The property sits on a 2.5-acre lot, across the street from the West Village retail complex, on McKinney and Lemmon avenues.

Sleeper says the bookstore and bank are going on the southern half of the property, and the next phase will be on the northern half. "The next phase will have additional tenants of retail, we don't know who yet, we're in the process of leasing right now," Sleeper tells GlobeSt.com. "The building will have apartments on top, but we don't know how many yet. We're still in the planning stage."

He adds there would likely be between 100 to 250 apartments in anywhere from four to eight stories in the building.

The project is part of the overall Cityplace complex on 140 acres, which the company has been developing, or selling off property to be developed, over the last 12 years.

The new retail component will match nicely with West Village, a mixed-use retail and multifamily development, which opened in 2002. The property had been sold by Cityplace to Miller Interests Inc. and Phoenix Property Co.

Sleeper says his company will keep the new retail that is being built, but may structure the deal so that the apartment developers would own that portion.

The current retail project should open next year. It's being designed by HKS Inc. Architects.

After the two phases are complete, the complex will have about 24 acres left to be developed. "It will all be developed as mixed use, retail combined with multifamily or possibly offices," Sleeper says.

He says the area wasn't great when they bought the land, but has increased in popularity. "In the last eight years, about 12,000 new residential units have been built in the Uptown area, from townhouses to high-rise apartments to condominiums.”

**bloodandpopcorn** · 01 September 2003, 12:54 PM

So... it was supposed to start construction last month, yes? Still no signs of construction... What's going on? Just a few week delay? Or something disappointing?

**freewaytincan** · 01 September 2003, 04:52 PM

I'm sorry, that rendering has left me in shock.

Thank you, it feels good.

gc · 03 September 2003, 11:48 PM

Well, well, well...it appears something is happening next to the Bryson Apartments...and the Zom development looks like it will be starting soon too.

**patmns** · 04 September 2003, 09:38 AM

They were starting to dig up the lot in between the Bryson and West Village yesterday (09/03/03).

**bloodandpopcorn** · 05 September 2003, 07:57 AM

woohoo!! I wa sworried there for a couple of days.good news indeed...

**tnf** · 05 September 2003, 03:09 PM

i was in west village the other day at tom tom and didnt see that they had started. thats really cool, and hopefully it will look nice like the apartments, although im sure it will!!! -nick

crescentboi · 05 September 2003, 06:15 PM

I also noticed the construction by the Bryson, but I could tell the valet for the West Village was not happy with not being able to use as much of the parking lot as usual. Also I did notice the construction trailers for the ZOM project about a week ago, but does it now mean that they're going to break ground or what do y'all think?

**tnf** · 06 September 2003, 01:40 AM

i went by west village tonight, and they had ripped the concrete of the parking lots i think... anyway they were doing something at that lot between west village and the apartments. also, a friend tells me that the road from cityplace station to west village will turn into a place with big screen tvs and like las vegas and new york, but im sorta skepitical... any clue to what he was talking about (monty...) thaks -nick

**patmns** · 06 September 2003, 01:20 PM

I have not heard anything about that (TV's and Vegas Style), but that does not mean that it won't happen. From what I have heard, it is going to be more of a traditional urban look. **See rendering above**

**bloodandpopcorn** · 06 September 2003, 03:24 PM

Does anyone know if the new DART station shown in the rendering and discussed here before will acutally occur? I would absolutely love to see something of that nature done to make the station signature... but with all the budget problems dart is hving, etc, do you think it will still happen?

**tnf** · 07 September 2003, 02:45 PM

i like the cityplace dart station like it is... the people who dont ride dart dont know the extent of the underground complex, and its sorta like a secret thats cool to know... and look at some of the people that live in tehre while its raining, would we want them near west village and in and among it? just the other day someone asked me for 2 dollars for a "fix a flat" i wish people wouldnt do that there. oh well, im still going to go as often as i can!- nick

**bloodandpopcorn** · 09 September 2003, 09:14 AM

If the new construction is enough to be of interest, would someone (jammin perhaps?) be willing to take a picture or two and share on the forum? I'll try and get down there by the end of this week.... If I do I'll take my camera just in case... but this week is rather crazy, so, I'm not sure.

any news on other developments in the area? i.e., the stuff where the ugly driving range is? Are the plans already lined up, a they appear to be from this rendering, or is this just a "best picture scenario"?

gc · 09 September 2003, 10:50 AM

I have to be honest.....I actually like the driving range. In fact, I think it would be quite unique to have a driving range in the middle of all the dense development. I think it adds to the quality of the area and gets a lot of use by the neighboring residnents.

**psukhu** · 09 September 2003, 11:36 AM

The driving range is 7A, 7B and 8A on the rendering.

I also use that driving range. Wouldn't it be cool if they built one in the Trinity River flood plain. You could hit the ball off the levee. Maybe on the Oakcliff side so you had a view of the skyline...

**patmns** · 09 September 2003, 01:34 PM

The golf range is nice to have in Uptown, and it looks great from up in the Bryson.

Everything I've heard, though points to it being replaced with new development.

I would be interested to hear how long there lease is with City Place. If anyone knows, that would be great info.

**Kelley USA** · 09 September 2003, 01:37 PM

The lease is good only until the Cityplace Co. decides to develop the area... Hank Haney knows that they could be out at any time- but the developers have promised that it would be the last piece of property they develop... It could take 2 years or it could take 10 years! There was a nice article about this at some point- I bet if we dig in some of the old threads we can find it- I know it was posted at some point!

**JaeTex** · 09 September 2003, 02:13 PM

I too remember that article about the range and cityplace. It is a very nice amenity to have so close to downtown (and my townhouse). It was even better before they cut it in half.

Here's hoping that it is at least 10 years until they build on that property.

**CARTMAN** · 09 September 2003, 05:38 PM

As much as I like to see some greenery such as the golf course, I just don't think it fits into the area anymore. With the West Village becoming much more urban I thought it should have been the first thing to go. I guess its just kinda weird walking around a nice urban village and then run into golf range. Just my thought, I guess.

**JaeTex** · 10 September 2003, 04:26 PM

It's the ultimate in diversity of uses. How many other cities have driving ranges easily accessible to downtown? The difference makes Dallas unique.

And it fits. The median income of the area is probably greater than the city...and wealthy people golf.

It's preferable to an apt. block built for cars, it's actual real live people, out in the open, there is no law against that in Dallas...you just don't see it anywhere. Nevertheless I think even the most profitable ranges make very little money so this will be a goner very soon.

But better the above renderings than most stuff put up.