LBJ Express: I-635 Reconstruction btwn I-35/NCX

[rantanamo]

If there are any TxDOT people here, then bravo to you!!! After seeing the proposals for LBJ I am more than impressed with what is in the works. I hate, repeat HATE driving on freeways, except Central Expressway because it's unique features. LBJ is looking to top that . For those who haven't seen the schematics or drawings I'll try to get the graphics from the PDFs. Just reading this PDF is encouraging to me
Highway Design in the New Millennium

I guess I should move this to misc transportation.

[rantanamo]

After much searching I finally found some future LBJ rendering. NICE NICE NICE!!!! WOW WOW WOW!!! Dallas continues to be at the forefront of freeway design and aesthetics. I am by no means a super freeway fan, but these along with Central Expressway have made me see them in a different light.

Features

- Nice unique architectural feature that make it Central Expressway like, but in it's own way

-straight up and down walls like Central whether above or below grade

-tight to the mainlanes and even overhanging at points service roads like Central

-Plant and art features throught out the overpasses and walls.

-Similar signage and stoplight systems to central

- Tunnels, that's right, tunnels of 3 lanes each look like the most likely option between the tollway and I-35 with 4 lanes each direction on the surface rather than widening to 14 lanes.

- Permant reversable and non-reversable HOV lanes depending on best space and efficiency needs

Well, here are the renderings. The first four are the 'Alternatives'. Designs for the freeway style will be finalized by taking elements from each of these. Even the walls from all four in an alternating pattern are possible. Even differing designs for each of the four major sections. Should be super nice. Supposedly this will be decided upon before the fall.






These next 2 are concepts of what certain combinations could look like




Overpass


If it turns out like Central did, it should be nice to see.

LBJ Project

You can probably figure out why I posted some renderings. That's a time consuming page to get through

[Columbus Civil]

Very cool! My company is doing part of the drainage design for this project, but I have not yet seen any of the schematics for the redesign.

[rantanamo]

I put up some renderings on the misc transportation page.

[tamtagon]

I didnt dig too deeply into the LBJ Project site, but it appears that light rail is not being incorporated into the reconstruction. Perhaps train lines are to the North or South of the roadway, but I feel the plan is flawed if an alternative to the car is not included.

Otherwise, this project is really fancy, and I like it a lot. I would like Northwest Highway to receive similar treatment, especially sinking the limited access "fast lanes". I'm wondering about construction of the Bush, and whether or not the process which lead to LBJ innovations were included in Bush planning.

[rantanamo]

I never thought about it before, but you bring up an interesting point. Never thought about this either, but maybe DART owns their ROW in that corridor already.

[bloodandpopcorn]

They probably do own the ROW, but I think it's important to leave some room in the design for light rail, commuter rail, or regional rail to run within the system and not have to cut into streets. Particularly for the latter two, where stops are not frequent and the train needs its own 'free' area to hit high speeds and make it not only easier but also FASTER than driving. Too bad Dallas hasn't realized this opportunity and option yet...

[gc]

Looks nice. I think DART does own the ROW. But that expansion is long away I feel.

[rantanamo]

Doesn't DART own the HOV lanes?

[downtownbum]

the frustrated commuter in me says that any "renovation" of LBJ should start with a strategic nuclear bomb.........
i had a college prof at richland once who had a vendetta against LBJ the man, even refusing to say his name or allow anyone in his classes to say the name in his presence, calling the man "satan" and the road "hell's highway."
growing up in garland we always called it "Hell-B-J"

[jsoto3]

Digging LBJ tunnel a feat of clay
02:11 PM CDT on Saturday, September 27, 2003

By TONY HARTZEL / The Dallas Morning News

Building a 1.9-mile tunnel under LBJ Freeway begins with digging 2 inches of soil and rock at a time.

For the last several months, contractors have been drilling through the highway pavement to see what lies beneath. They take core samples of rock, soil and sediment up to 220 feet below the surface. Those 2-inch-diameter cylinders of rock will help engineers determine how and where to build the three-lane tunnels planned to run under North Texas' busiest highway.

Work is painstaking and dangerous, and progress can be slow. Often working overnight and in the middle of the highway, the drilling rigs pull out the rock at a top pace of 100 feet a day.

To date, contractor Fugro South Inc. has collected about 80 cores from the LBJ median and service roads. Laid end to end, the samples stretch more than 5,000 feet. Thirteen more samples will be collected soon, and at least 43 more drillings will take place starting in December.

"Each foot of rock that we pull out of the ground is like a piece of a puzzle," said Fugro project manager Hugh Kelly, who briefed the Texas Department of Transportation last week. "We've got over 5,000 pieces of a puzzle."

Back in Fugro's offices, the puzzle pieces begin to fit together. Rows upon rows of wood boxes contain as many as five 20-foot core segments. Each is labeled to show when and where it was collected. Geologists test many of the samples to determine the type and strength of rock through which the tunnels will run.

The cores have brought back expected good news from below. Austin chalk, the favorite of tunnel crews across Texas, is prevalent along the tunnel path. Geologists prefer the chalk because it is more stable than clay or other soils, and therefore requires less bracing and support while digging tunnels.

To no one's surprise, the samples also show a pesky 7-inch layer of clay that runs through portions of the Austin chalk. The softer clay layer formed when volcanoes erupted and deposited ash into an ocean that covered present-day North Texas. The clay was deposited 60 million years ago – not too long before the first traffic jam on LBJ Freeway.

"They're prepared for it. They know how it behaves," Mr. Kelly said of the clay seam. "The problem is when you find something that wasn't expected. There's a tremendous savings in time and money if a contractor knows what he has to deal with."

When tunnel crews hit that seam of clay, particularly near the top of the tunnel, workers will have to be more careful because it is less stable. That means progress will be slower, said Matt MacGregor, LBJ project manager for the Texas Department of Transportation.

"This gives us a preliminary idea to know what we need to do. With better information now, we can have a better design," he said.

No date has been set for tunnel work to begin. A study should be complete next year on how much toll revenue the tunnels could create. The earliest construction could begin is 2005, but it probably would start later.

Plans call for a 1.5-mile eastbound tunnel and a 1.9-mile westbound tunnel from about Preston Road to near Midway Road. Construction alone will cost $630 million but would reach $961 million with the addition of an interchange at Interstate 35E.

The 30-foot-by-60-foot tunnels will have three lanes each and will come up at the Dallas High Five and in the frontage road area near Midway. When complete, the vehicle tunnels will run about 100 feet below the surface and will be the longest and widest mined auto tunnels in the United States. Longer tunnels have been built by digging trenches, which are then covered when work is complete.

Tony Hartzel can be reached at thartzel@dallasnews.com and at P.O. Box 655237, Dallas, TX 75265.


http://www.dallasnews.com/localnews/...ner.92e2f.html

[gc]

Very interesting. Talk about no room for error! These tunnels will be another interesting addition to the eighth wonder of the world (high 5)!

[jsoto3]

If we can do these two projects within 10 years of each other here in Dallas, particularly in suburban Dallas, why can't we do a 'Low 5' downtown for the Mixmaster?! 'Low 5' would be a massive highway interchange (I-30 + I-35) of bored tunnels beneath the Trinity River. Then we could still have 'signature bridges' and surface boulevards that carry local traffic into downtown.

[bloodandpopcorn]

jsoto, I agree!!! I'm piss-tired of governmental agencies helping the sprawled areas while forgetting, or even further alienating and strangling, the urban center. This LBJ tunnel is absolutely crazy, and must be about to cost amazing ammounts of money, and is no where near as necessary to the region as fixing up the DT area highways.

[Knight23]

I little off topic, but did anybody see Extreme Engineering yesterday oon the discovery channel? It was about the Big Dig in Boston, fascinating but 15 billion dollars!

[JaeTex]

Does anyone know the cost differential between a mile of highway and a mile of light or commuter rail? How much is that stupid (IMHO) High-5 costing?

[Columbus Civil]

The High 5 and LBJ tunnel projects keep people like me employed. So as long as I have a job and can afford to make my H2 payments, I'm happy.

[drycreek]

I agree as well jsoto. I just don't get it. They want to bury a suburban freeway but build another highway downtown while the goal is to connect downtown to the Trinity? Are they crazy!?! Frustrating...

[Quiz03]

They are going to bury 4-6 tolled lanes. The free portion of LBJ will still be in a surface alignment.

[drumguy8800]

These were proposed by TXDOT. I personally like design choice A (You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to view these..):

Choice A
Choice B
Choice C
Choice D

I really don't like the design of C. It's.. weird. for more information on the project, go here.

The description of the highway sounds a whole lot like NCX- divided median with space for greenery, and some of those terraced boxs on the side of the highway for trees and stuff. In between I-35E and US-75, there will be two 3-lane HOV tunnels. They will probably be cut-and-cover (cover with the service roads) except for in between Midway and Preston, where they will be very deep, bored tunnels due to the DNT interchange.

[freewaytincan]

I like C the best, personally. Art Deco rocks, dude.

[drumguy8800]

Thats not art deco.. it looks all.. communist. I dont like the support columns for the overpasses.. or the weird thing that bisects the overpass (the weird.. tall stuff). The wide view of the road looks nice, just as long as we dont paint it that mars color. If we painted it kind of a cream and used it might be fitting. and they need to knock off those things on top of the overpasses.

EDIT: I didn't realize that you could scroll down and see more stuff. Now that I've seen that, I have to admit that I like the air-columns on option C... and that the design is kind of cool. I still dont like the overpass thing though, or the side of the freeway (weird.. lines.) I also like the design of the 'retaining wall at ramp' for option D.

[rantanamo]

I had posted these maybe a year or two ago before any work had started. From the look of the first completed overpass in Mesquite it is unmistakably art deco but I can't tell which or what combination of alternatives was chose. As I thought before when I first posted this stuff, TxDOT has great info on their website, even pics, so I don't have to risk my life to get them. Isn't this really good looking?

[Click for larger version.]

<img src='http://www.dot.state.tx.us/dal/mis/ih635/mesq11.jpg' width='700px' style='border: 1px solid #000000;'>


[Click for larger version.]

<img src='http://www.dot.state.tx.us/dal/mis/ih635/mesq10.jpg' width='700px' style='border: 1px solid #000000;'>


I have renderings for the next major intersection: Town East Blvd. Just can't seem to get my host to cooperate.

Notes from reading the entire thing:
-There's mention that the interchanges @I-30 and @I-35E will begin work after the High Five. Both with similar stack design to the High Five minus the HOV Flyovers. They look huge from the schematics and feature cloverleaf designs for the frontage roads

-An example of the new green on the High Five can be seen on the right on NCX just north of LBJ

-The tunnel study will be done this summer. Looks good that it will be done and will be bored rather than dug and covered.

-The Skillman overpass will finally be corrected instead of that weird Skillman/Audelia thing that's goin on now.

-LBJ will have 14 lanes from the High Five to Skillman(explains the super wide ROW). 4 HOV lanes and 10 main lanes(5 main and 2 HOV on each side, Holy Atlanta Batman!)

-LBJ will have 12 lanes from Skillman to I-30: 10 main lanes and 2 reversible HOV and 10 lanes in Mesquite

-LBJ will have 3 lanes of frontage in each direction for the entire portion, including through the interchanges. From Skillman to NCX they will be vertical retaining wall above. From Skillman to I-30 there will be steep sloped walls. In mesquite, there will be low angle slopes.

-LBJs design includes noise walls at areas zoned for residential(similar to NCX)

-Cost of LBJ's eastern section (US 75- US 80) will be $642 million
-pinned dates for completion are TBD, but have open dates on the chart all the way to 2020!

before I tell you the estimated costs of the West section, just remember that I'm the messenger. Take it out on our STUPID state, and any STUPID government that passes along this kind of money.

-Cost of LBJ's western section(US 75 - I-35E, includes I-35E interchange which is more expensive than the high five, and tunnel) come to $1,197,500,000 Now that is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-LBJ will 8 main lanes and 6 HOV lanes in the western section. This will either be 8 lanes with 6 in the middle, 8 lanes with 6 HOV boxed under the frontage(also 6 lanes) or 8 lanes with 3 lanes in two seperate tunnels for HOV

-Tunnels would be the longest mined tunnels in the US

-Aesthetics from the rendering look similar, yet different to the design used in Mesquite. The Mesquite design is said to be enhanced for its surroundings, The other portions had similar railings and walls, but with Texas stars on it. Very architectural and 'orderly' like central.

-One thing I noticed on one map is that it includes proposed DART rail lines. Intersting it has one running from the High Five area going along LBJ to where the Yellow line crosses LBJ. Interesting

[jsoto3]

Rantanamo,

On which map did you see the DART line?! Can you post it?

[MustangMonkey]

Delete :guns:

[tamtagon]

-Cost of LBJ's western section(US 75 - I-35E, includes I-35E interchange which is more expensive than the high five, and tunnel) come to $1,197,500,000

Wow, a billion, you could almost build a nice resort in Las Vegas for that. I can remember driving down from Denton, thinking how amazing the LBJ/35 intersection was, looks like the plan is to make it even more "amazing". I think it's overdue, though. Having so many lanes merge just makes the back up worse.

If regional job centers were allowed to double or triple in capacity, much of the demand/necessity for more highway lanes would be met by trains. If 25% of Dallas PMSA's 2,000,000+ workers commuted to the CBD (rather that the current 7%), taking a train would be the most convenient and efficient mode of transportation.

In addition to purchasing an inticing and inviting "revitalized" brand name for the city of Dallas, in addition to creating a wilderness oaisis along the Trinity River, and in addition to spending a billion tax dollars to help build stadiums for the regions professional sports teams, Dallas politicians must convince satelite municipalities to support business activity the Dallas CBD as a means to increase the standard of living for all communities.

[drumguy8800]

OH my HOLY crap. $1,197,500,000. So.. is this section going to be costlier than Central from Woodall to Loop 12 (S2?)?!?! Dallas keeps on upping the ante for the most expensive construction project ever concieved in Texas. First.. it was NCX. Now its High 5. Then it'll be the I-635/I-35E interchange (how can it POSSIBLY be more expensive than High 5..?) and then the I-635 western segment. 1.2 BILLION!? That's crazy.. but very.. very.. awesome. Insures an awesome freeway.. I can't wait to see it complete. Dallas is going to earn a reputation (among a select crowd) for being the city with the nicest road facilities.. in the nation. After this major reconstruction of 635, I've heard talk.. (It might even start before LBJ is complete) of a complete reconstruction of I-35E from the Lewisville to the Desoto/Lancaster Line.. including a revamp of the 'canyon..' or the I-30/I-35E mixmaster. Dallas is gonna have one of the best transit systems in the naton once all this is finished.. (DART, I-635 Reconstruct, I-35E reconstruct, I-30 reconstruct, I-20 and I-30 service roads, SH-161, SH-190.. Loop 9.. SH 121.. wow.)

[dallastophoenix]

Dallas is gonna have one of the best transit systems in the naton once all this is finished.. (DART, I-635 Reconstruct, I-35E reconstruct, I-30 reconstruct, I-20 and I-30 service roads, SH-161, SH-190.. Loop 9.. SH 121.. wow.)

Of course, it will only take another 5-10 years b4 it's overwhelmed w/ more and more cars... just look at LA's massive freeways (that are usually packed). it definitely needs to be done, though.

[rantanamo]

Nevermind on the DART rail along LBJ. There's a slight change in color(dark blue to black) that indicates 4 lane HOV as what's planned for that stretch.

[crescentboi]

Does anyone have any updated pictures of this construction and how this is looking now?

[rantanamo]

last time I saw it, things hadn't changed much yet. They were slowly making their way up I-635 to Town East Blvd. LBJ itself will be phased. I think the section with the Tunnell under it is first. I think the High Five has to be pretty close to completion so that the tunnell entrances can go in. I'm guessing they begin on the Eastbound side first.

[jsoto3]

Update:
WFAA Video Report

Moderators: Can one of you please merge the other thread with this one and give it a more official title? Discussion should crank up on this in the coming months and years. Thanks.

[drumguy8800]

^-- WFAA video never works for me. Can someone give me the general gist of the video..

And.. how I can fix the player..? I have the newest wmp.

[rantanamo]

So, they are going with the cut and covers under the service roads and 3 lane reversible tunnel down the middle?

[drumguy8800]

This PDF that I found on the LBJ Site has renderings for Project Pegasus, I-30/Loop 12, I-635, etc etc etc. Enormously Interesting: click.

[texman]

I like the plan and all, but why add frontage roads where they arnt currently? All of the development along those portions are residential neighborhoods anyways with NO access from the freeway. Hmm, I hope with with the HOV or HOT lanes (whatever their calling them) going into the tunnels, they will leave room for rail. As mentioned before, yeah right.

[gc]

Threads merged. How about the title? Is that good enough?

[drumguy8800]

Threads merged. How about the title? Is that good enough?

A little uninspired, I'm afraid.

[gc]

So, suggestions?

[jsoto3]

I like it. Very straightfoward and easy to find info if performing a search. Thanks!

[drumguy8800]

So, suggestions?

joking

[Geaux Tigers]

I like the plan and all, but why add frontage roads where they arnt currently? All of the development along those portions are residential neighborhoods anyways with NO access from the freeway. Hmm, I hope with with the HOV or HOT lanes (whatever their calling them) going into the tunnels, they will leave room for rail. As mentioned before, yeah right.

I love DART rail and ride it whenever possible, but I'm not sure I see any point in having a line running alongside or down the middle of the 635 freeway unless we're talking stops at all the major office buildings, medical city, and the galleria area. In that case, right on.

[RobertB]

I love DART rail and ride it whenever possible, but I'm not sure I see any point in having a line running alongside or down the middle of the 635 freeway unless we're talking stops at all the major office buildings, medical city, and the galleria area. In that case, right on.

I think that feeds into the big question about both rail and highways. If there's no need for rail along a corridor, then what is the highway doing there in the first place?

I know, that's a rhetorical question.

LBJ seems to be the primary artery for moving from sprawl to sprawl. Several points of origin feed into a single highway and then scatter to several destinations. If rail had been included from the start, then the sprawl at either end would have been managed differently. As it is now, I'm not sure how to put the sprawl genie back into the bottle.

Attached is one of the maps from DART's long-range plans. Note that the DART line along LBJ isn't really an LBJ line -- it's just a convenient way to get from the Red Line to the Galleria and Addison Station. As frustrated as I am at the money pit TxDOT is looking to dig under LBJ, I don't know that I see the corridor as the ideal location for LRT. I think DART may get more bang for its buck by taking the long way around from LBJ/Skillman to Addison via the KCS and Cotton Belt rail ROW, even if it means a spur line to the Galleria that comes in from the north.

[texman]

LBJ seems to be the primary artery for moving from sprawl to sprawl. Several points of origin feed into a single highway and then scatter to several destinations. If rail had been included from the start, then the sprawl at either end would have been managed differently. As it is now, I'm not sure how to put the sprawl genie back into the bottle.

"sprawl to sprawl" is not exactly true. Currently, LBJ is sorta like the center of the Dallas metro area if you add in all the northern suburbs.

[drumguy8800]

I love DART rail and ride it whenever possible, but I'm not sure I see any point in having a line running alongside or down the middle of the 635 freeway unless we're talking stops at all the major office buildings, medical city, and the galleria area. In that case, right on.

The galleria and the major office districts would of course be included. There is already a DART LRT Red Line Station at Forest Ln about a block and a half from the hospital, so I don't know why they would put another in such close proximity unless they actually put it inside the hospital.

Your argument could've been used against the Red line going up US-75 - after all, it went through just office parks, malls, and houses - just like an LBJ line would do. One of the major functions of a rail line is to encourage density around the line - and this has happened around the red line especially, making it a very important link, just like an LBJ line would do.

[US75Guy]

As it is now, I'm not sure how to put the sprawl genie back into the bottle.

There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. Therefore, let's work with what we've got: 1) A major commuter interstate going through a congested (and aging) office/residential suburbia. 2) Certain residents and businesses that are in the suburbs want to be there, and want to stay there. 3) The need to stop further erosion of suburban employment centers even farther north.

Solution: A rail line running parallel with LBJ could potentially bring some of that far north sprawl, back into the city limits and create the density and rebirth of that corridor. It would still provide the easy access to the northern suburbs some people want, but provide a reason to stop and build in Dallas county instead of up-the-road in Collin. Slowing and hopefully stopping the flight of businesses out of the Dallas city limits is not just a downtown thing, it is affecting all parts of town.

The slow erosion and decline of North Dallas (north of NW Hwy) is the big dirty elephant no one wants to talk about, but it's there and growing bigger. Let's remember that for Dallas as a whole to thrive, the entire city needs to remain healthy, not just uptown and downtown.

[rantanamo]

slow erosion and decline north of NW Hwy? Where is that happening?

[US75Guy]

North Dallas is no longer the retail and employment center it was in the 80's and 90's. That has continued to move north past the city limits into Frisco, Allen and Plano. That is the cutting edge of new development in the metroplex now.

High vacancy rates in the office buildings along LBJ; empty retail space along Central expressway; Valley View struggling to regain its place among the malls of the metroplex; apartment communities in the NW and NE falling into section 8 housing. Yes, the corridor between Central and Midway is doing fine, and there are other nice pockets, but it is not what it was.

Retail is not empty on Central just because of high rents, retailers will pay whatever for the right spot in the right area. The demographics just arent adding up anymore.

[rantanamo]

Maybe business are moving elsewhere and the vacancy rates are high, but so are they in pretty much all the suburban markets. Are you forgetting the article about Frisco scaling back office plans as well as that Plano building being built on total specualtion?

I'd disagree about Valley View as well. Last time I was there, that place was packed, and the renovation looked incredible. One of the nicest malls in the whole metroplex, IMO.

The swath between Midway and Central is absolutely huge, and to leave out most of Lake Highlands is just wrong. I will agree with you on the apartment areas and certain spots, but that's a huge generalization you made.

[LakeHighlands]

Retail is not empty on Central just because of high rents, retailers will pay whatever for the right spot in the right area. The demographics just arent adding up anymore.

I have to disagree with that, considering North Dallas and Far North Dallas have the highest home prices in DFW outside of the Park Cities. The home prices continue to rise in that area at a phenomenal rate. The homes have gotten a lot bigger since the 1980s. Once NorthPark expansion is finished it will be in the top five and maybe number one mall in the whole country in Sales per square foot. The Galleria and Valley View were both remodeled since the 1980’s and are both bigger today. Park Lane Place, the proposed development at Walnut Hill and the Urban Reserve. Oh do not forget North Dallas (entire area NW+N+FN+NE) will have more train stations than any other area in DFW. North Dallas is anything but in decline.

And you could forget about increasing density in North Dallas the area between Central and Midway. Those folks will fight you to the very end if you try to do anything that will increase the density. I have see many developers try to build developments in that area. The first thing I ask them is, “Can this be built under current zoning standards?” If they say no, I tell them come back to me when you get your zoning change. I wish any developer the best of luck on that one.

Let’s go to Vickery Meadows, that area has the most potential in all of North Dallas for new dense development. I still can’t believe people think that area will stay the way it is. It is only surrounded by some of the wealthiest and nicest neighborhoods in DFW. Vickery Meadows is probably the only area north of Northwest Hwy in Dallas where many mid and high rises can be built. Vickery Meadows has location, location, location!!!! Also, there are not any home owners to fight density in that area.