Reply With QuoteBeen there, done that... no thanks. We like Ford.Originally Posted by tamtagon
We're even sticking it to A&M and forcing them to play there this year.
We should keep in mind, too, that the UT System has a lot of students taking classes at several Dallas area campuses already, and the system contributes hundreds of millions of dollars to the local economy.
I wonder if SMU could ever get to a point where that football team needs the capacity of the Cotton Bowl.
Been there, done that... no thanks. We like Ford.
We're even sticking it to A&M and forcing them to play there this year.
Interesting question but I think the real question is how many is too many for the city of University Park, city of Dallas and the surrounding neighborhood to tolerate before they would force SMU to hold games somewhere else. Currently they have plenty of room in their stadium to expand the capacity by several thousand seats if they needed to and they certainly have the funds to do so. The ultimate test will be if and when they propose expanding capacity will the surrounding city governments and neighborhoods say no to all the associated traffic and activity. They can solve the parking issues easy by simply busing people from their new east campus on the other side of 75 at 6060 North Central Expressway. I just don't think you would see the SMU alumni and the administration wanting to bus the kids down to the Cotton Bowl without having full control of the stadium and the neighborhood that surrounds it. SMU likes its buildings to be up to their standards and the Cotton Bowl even with these updates will be substandard compared to what they like. Course maybe there is way they could use it only for a couple of larger games and still use their stadium for games that don't get a higher attendance if they were to reach such a stone wall from the neighborhood.
http://keranews.org/post/council-not...um-renovations
Hmm, when Jerry Jones proposed his stadium he said he could expand temporary seating to just about 100,000 for big events. I guess the Super Bowl taught us the Fire Marshall wont allow that many people based on the way the stadium is currently designed. So does the Cotton Bowl honestly rival the number of seats by that many almost 20,000 or is this guy shooting from the hip too much?On Wednesday, the Dallas City Council will vote on spending 25 million dollars to update Cotton Bowl stadium....Since the game is played on neutral ground in Dallas, fans travel to see it, spending money on hotels, restaurants and the state fair. It adds up to an estimated 20 million dollars of spending in Dallas County alone...
...To accommodate the long-held tradition, the city expanded the Cotton Bowl’s seating capacity to 90,000 plus just four years ago. It also updated the scoreboards, sound system, and concessions at each end zone...
...But it’s not enough to stay competitive with other college stadiums. If the council agrees to spend 25 million, Cotton Bowl manager Roland Rainey says five design teams will compete to modernize the press box and install fancier club seating. The seats will be glassed in and climate controlled right under the press box with access to a new sports bar. Standing near a concession stand at the stadium entrance, Rainey points to the exposed pipes overhead and says this area will be overhauled, too.
Rainey: We’ve asked the people that are bidding on doing this to improve it and bring it update through lighting, covering up the pipes…and better concessions, better everything, you know, make it look nicer...
...Dallas will borrow 25 million dollars to update the stadium. The city has ten years to pay off the loan with taxes from the general fund. City leaders have said the return on the investment is a sure thing. But some fans point to the newer, more modern Cowboys stadium as an alternative..
...College sports marketing executive Adam Hochfelder says that doesn’t make financial sense because the schools make most of their money on ticket sales and the Cotton Bowl has more seats.
Hochfelder: There are 93,000-ish tickets in the Cotton Bowl and they’ll squeeze as many people into standing room only as they can…Cowboys stadium, if you add suites and club level I think it’s in the upper 60s or low 70s. So it’s 20,000 plus more people can get to the game...
SMU probably prefers its version of tailgate on its grass lawn. Doing that party in the Fair Park parking lot would be less enjoyable. SMU will be highly unlikely to achieve football status requiring the Cotton Bowl. First step would be to get own students to attend the game. As an opponent school's fan, my group greatly enjoys Ford and its surroundings. While we would attend if at the Cotton Bowl, we would see as step down.
I know, and I think it's too bad. Wishful thinking on my part to see SMU Football games draw 70/80,000 fans each home game. If the program ever starts to approach a following like that, the Cotton Bowl would get all the bells & whistles all at once! anyway....
The only way Cowboys stadium approaches what the Cotton Bowl now seats is by standing them up in the end zones (or entrances) where few can see anything.
That place is so over-hyped it's ridiculous.
That guy was shooting from the hip a bit too much, although his conclusion appears to be correct... Cotton Bowl seats more than Cowboys Stadium. Not very impressive for a "college sports marketing executive" to be that clueless about Cowboys Stadium. IIRC, Cowboys Stadium seats 80,000. They claim capacity of 100,000 (and moronic journalists constantly repeat the false claim that the stadium "seats" 100,000), even though (a) apparently the fire marshall will not allow that many, and (b) that is counting people who are admitted into the end zone areas where they can watch the game on big-screen TVs!
You left out the "again".
Don't forget the Cotton Bowl's nickname, "The House that Doak Built."
Heck, it wasn't that long ago that they regularly sold out Texas Stadium.
http://popcultureblog.dallasnews.com...ton-bowl.html/
The reviewer seemed to enjoy himself, but didn't give the event a raver review. I'm hopeful the party gets bigger and better with age.By Mario Tarradell / Music Critic
June 10, 2012
...The inaugural H2O Music Festival, which swept into the Cotton Bowl Saturday, aimed to mix genres as it catered to young bilingual Hispanics. Call them Hispanics 2.0, as Jack Hobbs of Dallas-based festival presenters Univision Radio told me last week. They like music in English, and in Spanish, and across the stylistic board.
...Although official attendance figures weren’t available at press time, I’m taking an educated guess that there were about 15,000 people....
Latest plans have been revealed:
Your first look at what the ‘new look’ Cotton Bowl could look like by September 2013
By Kira Witkin
kwitkin@dallasnews.com
1:51 pm on July 11, 2012
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2...ber-2013.html/
As promised, members of the team tasked with renovating the Cotton Bowl presented initial concepts for the stadium’s new façade Wednesday afternoon. But lead artist Jamie Carpenter, of New York City, repeated this caution several times during his presentation to the Landmark Commission’s Fair Park Task Force: “We’re not saying these are finished designs. We’re just studying these possibilities.”
The approach is more artistic than architectural, said Eric Peek of Heery International, the firm hired by the city to give the Cotton Bowl yet one more makeover following the ’08 redo — this one, at the cost of $25.5 million, with the public art component costing some $600,000 out of 2006 bond money.
The design team said they plan to preserve the original stadium entrances but will redesign the end-zone areas to draw attention to their historic facades; this, they said, would be done by overlaying perforated metals. The metals, which vary in design but look more or less like chain links, as you’ll note in the PDF below, will create an interesting dynamic between light and shadow, Carpenter said. A big question now is at what angle to hang the metal mesh in order to create the best display of light.
...
Lots of options for the different facade coverings here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/99830728/W...ight-Look-Like
I have to say I like these options I think they provide a more interesting contemporary style to the stadiums exterior that I think people will respond too. It certainly gives me hope that this phase of the renovation project will take the Cotton Bowl to the next notch when it competes for events.
Looking at the historic photos in the presentation is very interesting as well. Particularly looking at the pictures of the old Ford. Building they might be rebuilding in the next few years to bring in technology exhibits.
I don't know which option I like best, but I like the general idea as a facade. It really works well for Houston's new soccer stadium. Especially looks good at sunset and during night games when you get the inside like making the mesh glow. Excellent artistic choice. Was hoping for a glass curtain of some kind, but the budget made that unrealistic. This will be a cool alternative. I like the color scheme for the main concourse as well.
If I might make a suggestion to the designers, make the mesh gold in color. I actually think it would enhance the effect, give the facade a bold Art Deco look and I think it would fit in well with Fair Park.
Last edited by rantanamo; 12 July 2012 at 01:46 AM.
i like your gold suggestion. That would ad more to giving it the Art Deco feel.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
A huge mistake would be made if the Fair Park Cotton Bowl is not proposed as a host for the new college football championship play off scheme. A stadium in Texas without a roof may be automatically rejected for the college football championship games, but 1) the exposure and statement of stadium amenities would be worth the cost to put a bid together, and 2) the entity tasked to book sell-out events in the stadium absolutely needs the practice/experience and needs an established commission to compete for big events. Who know, Fair Park might get lucky....
The stature of the TicketCity Bowl would likely get a boost if anything and possibly be able to schedule more popular football team and turn what is now basically a one day event into a long weekend.
Cowboys Stadium hopes to bid for Super Bowl, new college football championship
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...ampionship.ece
Cowboys Stadium could be bidding before long for the Super Bowl and what some are calling the Super Bowl of college football. A nonprofit bid committee started by AT&T Cotton Bowl Classic officials will take the lead in the highly competitive pursuit of the new NCAA football championship and the six-stadium playoff rotation.
...Established bowl games are expected to be eligible for playoff spots, while any stadium could bid for a championship game.
...Cotton Bowl officials also are waiting on bid specifications for the newly announced Champions Bowl, which would feature the best available teams from Big 12 and Southeastern Conference.
I dont see it happening. With The Cotton Bowl group now having signed their souls over to Jerry, Cowboys Stadium will house any huge games in the DFW are.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
/\ I agree i think the odds are low but i do think that tamtagon has a point that it would be good experience for the group that is supposed to be getting games at the Cotton bowl to go through the exercize... The fact that it holds more people then Cowboy stadium may be a big selling point who knows.
Right, I don't think the Cotton Bowl could compete against Cowboys Stadium for one of the BCS/NCAA championship games without a roof, but the TX/OU upgrades to the Cotton Bowl have been and are continuing to be extensive and the stadium needs as much exposure as it can get. Going through the process could easily enable the TicketCity Bowl to command a "stronger" program.
I see your point Tamtagon I think your right it would be good to get the arguments out there and into at least the BCS hands that the stadium is not just a relic collapsing into the earth like it was for many years as the council has ignored Fair Park. It would least make sure the BCS knows the stadium continues to get significant upgrades to make it a valuable venue for the region and for sporting events.
^Much more than making BCS folks know about the upgrades and more than making all the other teams and conferences aware of Cotton Bowl capabilities and amenities, the exercise would raise awareness and strengthen bids for prestigious futbol games and stadium concerts. The stadium just needs to be marketed.
Here's hoping the pending Cotton Bowl upgrades and the new sponsorship deal which now includes the City of Dallas will increase the appeal of the Dallas Football Classic and the Fair Park destination to attract a teams and/or match-ups that will fill the stadium.
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2...s-a-hint.html/
There's no reason for Fair Park to be mostly idle during the popular New Year's Day weekend. With the football game as a base, other events should be scheduled the day before and after so people will spend more time in Dallas.By Robert Wilonsky
September 18, 2012
...an official announcement will be made October 4
...We’ll do a funding agreement like we do for Texas-OU, and a lease agreement for the facilities out here. We’ll do everything to make sure it’s successful.
It wont be idle. Lights All Night is going to be taking place all of that weekend...tens of thousands of ravers playing in Fair Park
I would like to see an annual Tech v A&M game at the Cotton Bowl during the state fair. It would be Big 12/SEC and bring back to old rivals. Wishful thinking...
^where have you been St-T?
Making pretty the Cotton Bowl:
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/107...q1yul0eyskxxgr
starts at page 12, nice on page 20
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...orship-of.html
Interesting vision for the new non-profit:Heart of Dallas takes sponsorship of New Year's bowl game
by Matt Joyce
October 4, 2012
The Cotton Bowl Stadium will be the site of the Heart of Dallas Bowl on Jan. 1 and the Heart of Dallas Classic in September.
A newly-formed nonprofit called Heart of Dallas announced Thursday that it is replacing Ticket City as the title sponsor of the Jan. 1 college football bowl game at the Cotton Bowl Stadium.
...The game will be called the Heart of Dallas Bowl and will feature match-ups between a Big 10 and a Big 12 team in 2013 and the Big 10 and a Conference USA team in 2014.
...The first Heart of Dallas Classic game will be Sept. 28, 2013 during the State Fair of Texas run in the Cotton Bowl Stadium between Army and Louisiana Tech University, organizers said.
About time good news that the State Fair will get another football game. I wonder how the HOD Classic selection process works, and I wonder how it will change as the game becomes more popular. These neutral site, non-conference games have really grown in popularity, the Fair Park venue could eventually bring national teams like Notre Dame, USC, Miami to the Cotton Bowl to play a one of the up-and-coming regional teams looking for exposure like UNT, SMU, Tulsa, SFAU.......said Conference USA Commissioner Britton Banowsky, founder of the Heart of Dallas. "The vision is that through first-class events we can assemble the next generation of community leaders while at the same time recognizing and supporting the amazing work being done by our local charities."
Also, kinda looks like Heart of Dallas is angling to usurp the Liberty Bowl as the C-USA champ big bowl game.
Soccer returns to Cotton Bowl with Dr Pepper Dallas Cup in 2013
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...up-in-2013.ece
Sounds like a good opportunity all right
Of course, the real question is: What’s the economic impact? Do tell, Dallas Convention & Visitors Bureau president and CEO Phillip Jones: “With its more than $12.6 million economic impact, the Dallas Cup will be one of the largest annual sporting events held in Dallas.”
Good news indeed. Better the Dallas Cup is moving from Frisco back to the Cotton Bowl. Never made sense to me having FC Dallas move to Frisco. I would hope FC Dallas would move back, but not waiting for it.
How does the economic impact factor in moving the event 30 miles south down the Tollway? It is good for the Cotton Bowl itself, but broadening the impact beyond that physical location is quite a stretch. Same consumers, same dollars.
The venue's bigger, more famous, and more centrally located. I don't know if that means more people will come, but it means more will be able to.
Could have something to do with the fact that soccer is popular with a diverse crowd and my best guess based on my visits to Frisco is they lack that diversity. Bringing the event to the Cotton Bowl makes the event closer to the more diverse crowds of Dallas which is probably one of their goals.
Frisco's soccer stadium sits 20,500, the Cotton Bowl sits 96,000.
There's 75,500 additional seats to sell in the Cotton Bowl.
That's almost 5 times as many potential ticket sells, and almost 5 times more potential profit.
[Deleted by poster]
Potential is the operative word. Did Frisco sell out? As for diversity of the neighborhood, does Fair Park's demographics have any impact on the Red River Rivalry? No. If you want to see the game, you will drive up the Tollway or down the Tollway to see it. What the neighborhood is like does not matter. Also, reply indicates consumers would come from local market. How is that incremental impact? Assume they flood into the Cotton Bowl. That just means they will buy less of something else in the same market.
Economic impact calculations especially connected with sporting events are almost always complete hogwash.
Last edited by mjblazin; 20 November 2012 at 03:27 PM.
You very well may be right about that. But the opposite could also be asked, Why move the game to Frisco to begin with? Or is most of the tournament held at the "soccer complex" out there? (I thought Dallas Cup was played at several local sites, but that may've changed in recent years.)
Here, I guess the hope is that out-of-towners who would've left early(ier) will make the trip to Fair Park. Or maybe those who would go to the game regardless will see Fair Park (and its surrounding neighborhoods), realize how neat it is, and decide to spend more time and money there in the future? Hell if I know.
I wonder if week long youth & teen event leaving the stadium in Frisco is anything more than good salesmanship from The Heart of Dallas non-profit group.
http://www.dallascup.com/quickfacts/index_E.html
When FCDallas Stadium hosted the event, almost all of the games were in Frisco, with a few at Richland College. Looks like the Cotton Bowl will be used for the opening day game and maybe the three of the Super Group games (semifinal and final?). with the rest at UTD or Richland College. So, instead of selling out Collin County hotels, most of the visitors will stay in Dallas. Even though Richardson is kinda far from downtown, I wont be surprised to see half or more of the 8,000 room nights going to CBD hotels. Central Expressway will provide quick and easy connection.
I don't know what kind of end-of-day activities join the soccer games, but any of the biggest downtown hotels could play host as could building along the Fair Park esplanade.
As far as end-of-day activities, they don't show much of anything on their schedule of events. With most of the games to be played at Richland and UT-D, one would expect the largest number of those room nights to be in north Dallas and Richardson, between the two primary locations. (Unless of course they provide large incentives to stay downtown.)
are there enough rooms for that?
There are more than enough hotel rooms just in Richardson.
That's a big revenue hit taken by Frisco.
they all have to pay the county tax. win
its ok now that they have the train museum moving up there.
Purdue vs Boone Pickens State University - Stillwater in the Heart of Dallas Bowl. Lots of potential current students and alumni to buy those tickets at least.
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArtic...CLID=205819575
Well, now that at long last the Fair Park Cotton Bowl finally has an effective sales and marketing entity working to put the stadium to use, The Heart of Dallas, perhaps the current round of club-seating & concessions upgrades and more artistic appearance to the Cotton Bowl will be enough to bring CONCACAF to Dallas instead of / in addition to Arlington
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...n-to-host.html
scheduled July 7-28 ... The 2011 Gold Cup game at Cowboys station sold out, roughly 80,000 fans, and that attendance number may be why Cowboys Stadium was a pick for another Gold Cup game. The average spectator crowd across all Gold Cup games is about 57,000 fans.
I'm just wondering about the schedules of CONCACAF and the Dr Pepper Dallas Cup (world-wide youth soccer event). The Gold Cup is during the end July and the Dallas Cup is the last week of March, what I'm wondering is whether or not the two events could be simultaneous. The Dallas Cup always has an opening day match between popular professional team, and that would be a potentially very potent tie-in with CONCACAF.
A lot of work needs to be done to bring four sell out football games to the Cotton Bowl during the state fair, but even more work needs to be done to bring four sell out soccer games to the Cotton Bowl in April/May.
The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...fc-dallas.html
FC Dallas will continue to have difficulties developing a large fan base as long as the games are in Frisco on the edge of town. The Cotton Bowl may be too big for FC Dallas even if every marketing effort is a huge success, but fulling a third of Cotton Bowl seats is better than filling all of the seats in the Frisco Stadium.Doug Quinn steps down as FC Dallas president, CEO
by Candace Carlisle
...Quinn was hired in 2010 to turn the team around from a club that was having problems developing a fan base and attracting sponsors.
The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.
I always thought that it was weird that the Dallas Burn would move so far away from their natural fan base. I went to a couple of games at the Cotton Bowl and it was exciting even with the place only 1/4 to 1/3 full. A lot of the spectators came from areas closer to Fair Park. The move out to Frisco must have been more of a real estate deal than one for the benefit of the fans and club.
Their attendance records would say other wise.
While 2012 has been a year that FC Dallas would like to forget on the field, in the stands things are trending majorly upward. In fact, more people came through the gates in Frisco this season for FC Dallas than ever before
http://www.fcdallas.com/news/2012/11...ning-fc-dallas
I went a couple of times with friends because we got free tickets. Actually, it's only when we get free tickets that we make it up there. FC Dallas being in Frisco wouldn't be as bad if there were at least a DART stop there.
It must be about more then just people buying seats cause 1/3 or the cotton bowl is much more then the Average of 14K fans in Frisco. They also get money from advertising and i am sure advertising to the fan base in Frisco makes them more money.
I wonder what Dallas was charging them to use the Cotton Bowl?
As stated in the bizjournal, Quinn was hired to turn the team around, which he was able to do until getting trouble with the law. Hopefully FC Dallas will hire another guy who can continue the attracting sponsors and growing attendance. OR they can get back into the Cotton Bowl and hire a marketing guy and end up with 30-50,000 game attendance....
The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.
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