I guess if the Tech v OSU hasnt already signed on with the ATT Cowboys Stadium, there a pretty good chance it'll happen at the Cotton Bowl. I have the impression TBoone prefers the Dallas location...? And the happy-camper press from a few months ago said there are a handful of existing January bowl games that would happily relocate to the Cotton Bowl and the giant North Texas TV market. If we're lucky, the new stadium in Arlington will end up generating more than one or two new 'big games.'
I'm still more encouraged by the effort to get some use out of the upgraded Cotton Bowl during the Spring.
What was the logic behind replacing the chair-back seats with bleachers? I've always found metal bleachers to be quite uncomfortable after 3 hours or so. Were the old ones falling apart? Was is simple economics? Just curious. It it looking very good by the way, and the view is untouchable by Jerry World. Thx.
The games are going to be so exciting that they considered removing the seats. They'd just mount cupholders on top of 4' posts and paint an number at the end of each row so you know where to stand.Originally Posted by UTdude
more butts in bleachers than seats.
Yes the old seats were just that and needed replacement and the increase in capacity was the reason for the benches. I agree about the lack of comfort in bench seating but then again I don't even watch sports at home when I can sit in a comfortable chair so I tend to let others who use the stadium to complain about that factor.
Based on the paltry amount spent, the money will be made back in two years.
My only trip to the Cotton Bowl yearly is the OU-TX game, and you usually stand the whole time. So, I could care less if its bleachers, seats, or nothing. I would probably actually prefer there be nothing, just a place to stand, with a high table in front of you for drinks and stuff... like a high bar table.
Cotton Bowl to Jerry Jones: Take, Um, That?
Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:00:19 PM
Dallas Observer - Unfair Park
Sad that the proud ol' joint is being saddled with Division II football.
Seems every week we’re learning what $1.1 billion (with a B) will buy. A Super Bowl here. An NBA All-Star Game there. Throw in some classic college football rivalries and a Big 12 Conference Championship Game.
But today we’re getting a peak – courtesy of our ol’ Cotton Bowl – at what $50 million (with an M) will get you.
Can’t believe there’s not a breaking press conference on ESPN, because news comes bolting out of Ada, Oklahoma this afternoon that on Oct. 18 the venerable Dallas stadium will host … wait for it … wait …
East Central State (Okla.) vs. Texas A&M-Commerce!
Because nothing justifies slapping $50 million worth of lipstick on a pig like Division II football, huh?
Cotton Bowl and State Fair officials are still working on a future Texas Tech-Oklahoma State game, but for 2008 we can lick our chops in anticipation of Texas-OU on Oct. 11, sandwiched between ECS-A&M-Commerce and the annual Grambling-Prairie View classic on Oct. 4.
That sound you here is Cowboys owner Jerry Jones. Laughing. -- Richie Whitt
I think we all need to come to the realization that the cotton bowl is not going to host the 'A' games over the next 20 years. That said, I think there will be plenty of opportunities to host football and soccer games that will bring people to the new DART line and to Fair Park.
That may be The Cotton Bowl's 2nd best game (only behind Texas-OU when the AT&T Cotton Bowl Classic leaves), attendance wise, considering OSU has at least 11,000 registered alumni in DFW alone. Tech is a little more with 21,000 in DFW but if alumni from Houston, San Antonio and others come out, they could have a sellout. (if everyone and their family goes to the game...)
I wouldn't worry about TTU-OSU moving to JerryWorld as the capacity far exceeds the number of projected ticket sales. But Jerry could always ofter a in$entive to bring them there too...
Last edited by NThomas; 04 June 2008 at 03:17 AM.
What calculation gives the city back an incremental $25 million per year in taxes? For sales tax recovery, that would have to be an incremental $2.5 billion in sales. We honestly expect those numbers to be realized from these football games?
Then let it go to Arlington and tear it down if you FEEL its a pure numbers game based on sales tax revenue. I really don't care that much.
Your quote said it was an easy payback in two years. Was your statement incorrect?
How funny! I went to HS in Ada, we played all our games in the ECU stadium (and did it much better justice than the college team did). And I went to college at TAMU-C! I might actually go to this game!
But I doubt there are that many AHS/TAMUC grads out there that would be double-attracted to this game as I am!
Besides, who doesn't want to see the Lions and Tigers play? All we're missing is Bears, oh my! (Baylor, anyone?)
I tell everyone...I smile just because...I've got a city love...
Funny. In looking for more info on the ECU/TAMUC game at the Cotton Bowl, neither school mentions it on their athletic sites, and Richie's blog posting has been removed. Wonder if he jumped the gun on this news?? Both schools still list the game as being played in Commerce.
I tell everyone...I smile just because...I've got a city love...
This is a guesstimate. I'm not sure of the city parks budget for each year, or the length of the bond issued for the parks package. Just imagining it as a 20 year issue, the CB portion is a pretty small portion of that bond.( I know you can't calculate individual portions of the bond like that)
I'm basing this off of my impression that this project is still part of the 1.35 billion parks bond issued a couple of years ago.
I'm sure those facts are correct, but they have nothing to do with a payback period. It looks like you divided 1.35 BB by 20 and said the city would repay that 50 million in less than 2 years. A payback period matches the incremental expense 50 million dollars vs. any incremental revenues generated by that cost.
The reason given for further investments in the Cotton Bowl was that it would generate additional tax revenues that would pay for the investment. It won't and we will be paying for those renovations out of our operating revenues that already have a $50 million hole this year.
the cost of the entire bond, not just the CB. Its not seperate. less than 2 years.
Looks like option B was chosen:
Looks like Option B was chosen
I love it! I'm impressed with the work that is being done... Now if we can just line up some games. I can tell you that as a Red Raider- I would love nothing more than to have the Tech v OSU game played here during the fair!
The exterior look/will look great. Other then the shear size and suites of Jerryworld, I still can't think of a reason why TTU v. OSU wouldn't want to play at the Cotton Bowl (perhaps during the State Fair?)
A roof?
(Just playing devil's advocate)
In October? Fall football should be played outdoors, in the elements.
Jerry will offer a better financial deal. Thats why.
It's really a bowl now -- I wonder if we shall still be able to look down the famous ramp onto the field with that new structure going up in the last pic.
The new tower project should also be located near the scoreboard end of the stadium when ever that project gets started and will provide a suite option if you wanna see the game from that high up.
Is it possible that after a couple of years playing in the Cowboy's Stadium the "shiny, new" allure will wear off and these games will just be matchups in a huge, partially empty stadium?
If the region makes a good impression during the first few years, the teams may be happy to continue travelling to Dallas to play in an updated historic facility surrounded by the events of the State Fair.
Things may look a little bleak now, but the improved Cotton Bowl's true value may be recognized down the road.
ummm....no
lol. yeah. right.
OK, exactly how many luxury skyboxes are planned for this place anyway?
Sorry this stadium is designed for watching and being a part of Football not cooling your heals in AC tight luxury boxes
The draw for a college vs. pro stadium is completely different. Just look at the stadiums around the country. College atmosphere is about history, packing people into the seats, roar of the crowd, the bands acoustics, student sections, etc... Pro teams demolish their stadiums every 20 or 30 years and build new luxury boxes. True, at Tech (I'm Tech Alumni) we have luxury boxes. And they are nice and we just built them about 4 years ago. But the stadium atmosphere has more to do with a student section than the rich people in the boxes. In pro sports its completely different. Sitting in a luxury box at a Cowboys game would be awesome! But a lot of people at college games would love to be right in the middle of the crowd. Feeling the energy. Its just a different audience. We all know this.
Now I'm not sure how this will impact the old cotton bowl vs. Jerryworld, but its definitely a positive for the cotton bowl to market in this "competition".
the difference is becoming smaller and smaller every year.
UT has 50? luxury suites, OU has at least 40, aTm has them... the point is, every big school is adding on and renovating to keep up with each other now.
I don't need to make Mr. Jones's case for him, but I am sure he'd say that his stadium can also have all those elements: crowds, noise, bands, etc. With his property you get all those things plus more.
Defenders of the Cotton Bowl say that it can do "A" and "B" really well, as good as anybody. But the Arlington Stadium offers A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, ... That's the weakness in the renovation business plan and why we won't get back our investment.
BTW, paying back a loan used to fix up an income producing asset out of income from other assets, because no additional income resulted from the investment, is not getting your money back. It's just paying back the loan and impairing the other services that had been using that money. That sounds familiar.
I think you are wrong in one part of your argument. Arlington can do A, C, D, E, F, etc but it does not provide the State Fair of Texas as its "B"ackdrop.
The location for the Cowboys stadium in suburban Arlington is just awful. Monumental traffic tie-ups, lack of public transport, lack of adequate parking, and the fact that it's in "Arlington" will be enough to keep some people away no matter what other amenities it may have.
You guys can keep banging Jerry Jones drum all you want but, there will always be events that prefer the atmosphere at Fair Park and the State Fair of Texas. I'm glad we were smart enough to keep a stadium there.
If it's anything like Reliant Stadium in Houston (which it will be), then JerryWorld will provide a professional, corporate atmosphere, i.e., sterile. Like a doctor's office.
They are not going to generate the noise, pageantry, and excitement, and won't provide the sightlines of the Cotton Bowl.
From a pure game watching experience, the Cotton Bowl will dominate JerryWorld. But everything will be new and shiny and technologically advanced at JerryWorld, so the ancillary experience will be better there. But just watching a game? I'll take the new Cotton Bowl any day of the week and twice on the first Saturday in October.
Can't wait to take the DART rail to Texas/OU next year.
Last edited by Lionel Hutz; 30 June 2008 at 03:36 PM.
"You look at Chicago, New York, San Francisco, you'll find lots of small businesses. But here in Dallas, they hold up big businesses and kick out small businesses, and that's not good."
Arlington has the "F" factor for sure. As in "F" Jerry Jones, I wouldn't go to his stadium if they paid me!
Cowboys Stadium maybe superior in amenities to most modern stadiums in the U.S., but one thing it will never have that Cotton Bowl does is the atmosphere. I didn’t go to either Texas or OU, but the Red River Shootout is always a special weekend in my calendar. The State Fair is the backbone for this special atmosphere that draws people, parties and festivities. I just don’t see that in Arlington.
And you are one of the few. The vast majority will be dying to go while wondering what if.
^I doubt it. There will be lots of people who won't go out of the principle. Wonder how long it will be before the new stadium feels the pinch of high gas prices? That alone will have an effect on some people, even though the ticket prices alone will force others out.
One of the best things about games at the Cotton Bowl is the atmosphere, not just the Fair, but being close to things, be it downtown, uptown, Deep Ellum or Lower Greenville. Arlington has squat. They may host the games, but Dallas will see the impact regardless. Hell, the skyline view from the CB is worth it. At the Ranger games, people go to the top to look the telescope things just to see the skyline. Wonder the the Cowboys Stadium will have that amenity too?
Agreed. I think the time will be short before the amenities at Fair Park and the CB are recognized.
It's going to be expensive to go to a Cowboys game. Two tickets, parking, concessions, plus the time it will take to drive out there from East Dallas and get stuck in traffic.
I can watch the game in HD along with several other games from the NFL Direct TV package.
I may go once just to see it, but then that's about it.
"You look at Chicago, New York, San Francisco, you'll find lots of small businesses. But here in Dallas, they hold up big businesses and kick out small businesses, and that's not good."
You guys make me giggle.
It's football. It's the Dallas Cowboys. People will complain. People will go. Make no mistake about it.
It is no more inconvenient in Arlington than it was in Irving or would have been in Fair Park for the other 4 million people in the metro area. Dallas residents are not the only patrons for Cowboy games.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
We aren't talking about the Rangers here. We are talking about THE Dallas Cowboys. And don't say the high ticket price will cause seats to go empty. It will be sold out just using season tickets. Regarding gas, do you honestly believe that someone paying 70 bucks for a ticket (and they probably have two) is going to skip the game because gas will cost an additional 20? Those seats will all be filled. All 80,000 of them.
The others are special events. Championships/Bowls/etc. I'm pretty sure people traveling across the country aren't going to say,"Well if the game was at the Cotton Bowl I'd go but since its in Arlington...."
Jerry Jones is a smart guy. Some, myself included, would argue hes a genius. I wish he had put it in Fair Park or along the Trinity but he followed the money and it got him a world class stadium that people will fill even if it requires driving to Arlington. Oh and did I mention that people in FW probably love that its in Arlington and not Fair Park.... (Thats kind of a big population as well)
you guys think people will not go to a Dallas Cowboys game? you are crazy! its the DALLAS COWBOYS! That is all you need to say and anyone will go.
I think we cleared up the fact that not everybody cares whats going on in Arlington or if the Cowboys are doing anything there. DFW is a big place and me being in Garland I will not go because Gas and cause I could care less about what the Cowboys are doing. I am not the only one who could care less but you have to realize Jerry built the stadium for the rich not the huddled masses. A reminder that this Jerry World has more suites than any other stadium before. The thing is designed to let the masses enter through the end zones in large glass barn doors and there are several limo turnarounds along the sides of the stadium. Those people while still affected by high gas prices and such are still gonna pay for their luxury boxes year after year and Jerry will be able to tell people he's got a full house because most of its boxes with tinted windows will be "occupied". He can have his castle over there in Arlington but until there is Mass Transportation or I become rich overnight I will not go and he will not miss me either.
The Cotton Bowl has plenty of wind left in its sails if we continue to market it correctly which means not telling people its a A facility. It can make the cities investment back but we just have to sell its positive points which include Fair Park and future additions to its surroundings like improvements that the State Fair produces with their own funds, plus maintenance to the stadium to keep our investment from rotting. The View does matter and better setups for games not held during the State Fair period all can contribute keeping business in Fair Park and the Cotton Bowl.
At what point did I say te stadium will be empty? BTW, you'd be hard pressed to find a ticket that isn't going to cost triple digits, let alone $70.
The discussion was about college games, particularly the atmoshphere that surrounds a Fair Park game versus a cookie cutter suburb.
They may not say that exactly, but part of the thrill of the Red River rivalry is the partying that goes before and after. Arlington will not see any of it and when you take that party out of the game, it loses its luster for those who travel down. When the game is at Fair Park, you can be in a number of entertainment districts within 30 minutes to an hour. And you won't have the added expense and hassle of car travel.The others are special events. Championships/Bowls/etc. I'm pretty sure people traveling across the country aren't going to say,"Well if the game was at the Cotton Bowl I'd go but since its in Arlington...."
I doubt he'd do that. He got the city to pay a big portion of the stadium in which he will reap all the profits. He will make his money and that is all he cares about.Jerry Jones is a smart guy. Some, myself included, would argue hes a genius. I wish he had put it in Fair Park or along the Trinity but he followed the money and it got him a world class stadium that people will fill even if it requires driving to Arlington. Oh and did I mention that people in FW probably love that its in Arlington and not Fair Park.... (Thats kind of a big population as well)
I cannot wait to go to a Cowboys game in the new stadium. I dont care that it's in Arlington, and I dont care that much about how much it will cost - because I'm a Cowboys fan. There's no question in my mind, however, that an October game-day experience attending a Fair Park Cotton Bowl football game would be much more fun.
Well said tam.
The Fair Park experience is much better, no question.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
I didn't say empty. I said you won't see a single seat empty meaning they'd all be sold
Cheapest face value for a ticket is less than 60 I believe.
Okay. Thats why I said the quote you referenced right after.
Last I checked, that game is still in Fair Park but I agree 100%
You doubt he'd do what? I didn't say he was doing anything. I said he followed the money so why are you disagreeing?
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