So, will THE stadium be built in...
Irving
Dallas
Fort Worth
Arlington
Grand Prairie
Grapevine
???
I wrote the locations I've heard tossed around in the order I personally prefer. At this point, it needs to be built along a rail line existing or approaching establishment. The first three cities cover that. Irving is my first choice because it's quite fair to give the current city top billing.
I'd love to see this built in downtown Dallas- but that will never happen. Dallas doesn't have the tax dollars to lure the stadium. I've always thought that a location near downtown Las Colinas would be a good idea- they have plenty of land and I think it would help spur retail in that area, as well as, new apartments etc. (that could be really cool). Grapevine would be abother great choice in my opinion. However, the leading site in Arlington is just horrible- they couldn't pick a worse site. This site has no infrastructure and even if they build it- still a very bad site!!! Fort Worth is out of the question because I doubt Jerry will EVER move the team to Fort Worth!! I'm sure if built- we'll see it go up in Arlington or Irving...
If Jerry and the City of Dallas get a look at my thesis, the new stadium will be built in downtown Dallas. More specifically, they will build it right between the Houston St. and Jefferson St. viaducts, right next to the levy. The grandstands will cantilever over and beyond the viaducts, with enormous digital video displays facing the freeways. Between the stadium and downtown will be a massive slab of structured parking, similar to the garage right next to Reunion Arena, on top of which will be a linear park with sporting fields and courts. The north end of the stadium will be open to views of downtown.
here is the link to the image if you cannot see it:
proposed stadium location
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Hey Jsoto,
I'm a Red Raider myself- spent 5 good years in Lubbock! Anyways- have you done anything to present your plan to the City of Dallas and or the Dallas Cowboys? I think Jerry would love nothing better than to bring the Cowboys back to within the city limits- but financing this project is a MAJOR obstacle. Especially if Laura Miller is our next mayor- we can kiss the dream goodbye- and then we need to hold on the hope Victory can somehow get built... Have you done any research on how the city can help finance this project?
haven't done any formal research in terms of finance, but my first idea would be for the city to give them the land and defer taxes for 10-15 yrs. what could that hurt?! it's not like they are receiving significant income from that property anyway.
i plan to contact everyone about this project. i intend to present all of my work, to be finished by december, on a website:
jsoto3 soon to be jsoto3.com
KelleyUSA, what did you study at Tech?
I presume Irving will eventually keep them, and, Dallas is last in line to get them. However, I'd prefer a position of planting a stadium in downtown of course.
Here's another article regarding the latest news as of today:
www.dallasnews.com/localnews/stories/032202dnmetstadium.7980.html
I think it's less their existance and more their credibility. If they really are "one of the leading economic analysis experts in the world" then there should be information about them that is pretty prevalent.
ERA said Arlington will get $7 billion in economic impact over 30 years.
We all agree that there is more to spend your entertainment money on in Manhattan when compared to Arlington.
Why does this article say that the proposed Jets stadium in Manhattahan will only have a $4 Billion impact over 50 years?
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/Sub...entintid=42567
Study Says West Side Stadium Project Will Generate Billions
link to video
AUGUST 18TH, 2004
A new study out Wednesday says the controversial west side redevelopment project would generate nearly $4 billion in city and state revenue over the next 50 years.
The Hudson Yards Coalition based its findings on projections by the city's Independent Budget Office, a fiscal watchdog group that opposes the construction of a new football stadium for the New York Jets on the west side of Manhattan. The coalition says the IBO's numbers are more conservative than the city and state analysis, and they still point to billions in surplus.
The coalition’s report also claims the city could pay off the $600 million worth of stadium bonds, plus interest, needed to help fund the redevelopment project and still have $3.9 billion left over.
NY1 has reached out to the Hells Kitchen/Hudson Yards Alliance, a group that opposes the stadium, but have not yet heard back.
Last edited by psukhu; 18 August 2004 at 08:41 PM. Reason: typo
Lol
Officials: Stadium plan trumps Rangers deal
07:05 AM CDT on Monday, August 23, 2004
By JIM GETZ / The Dallas Morning News
Has Arlington cut a better deal for its residents in the proposed stadium deal with the Dallas Cowboys than it did 13 years ago in its deal to keep the Texas Rangers?
Council members who also serve on the city's Sports Facilities Development Authority, which oversaw and implemented the deal with the Rangers, say yes because the city gained experience from the earlier deal.
"We get a piece of the naming rights," said Arlington City Council member Steve McCollum, "and we get our out-of-pocket event expenses reimbursed, which we didn't get in the Rangers deal. We learned from that."
Outside experts say it depends on how you define "better."
"I am not sure these get to the issue of which is better because the real issue is the return on what is spent, not what is spent," Mark Rosentraub, dean of urban affairs at Cleveland State University, wrote in an e-mail. "[You] have to look at what the city actually gained from the ballpark and then what they are trying to gain or expect to gain from the new facility. That is the real question and the only way to consider whether or not the taxpayers got a better deal this time."
Another expert, Milwaukee attorney Martin J. Greenberg of ScheerGame Sports Development, a company that develops arenas and stadiums for secondary markets around the United States, said the Cowboys proposal closely follows most in major league sports today. He also said that putting the stadium near Ameriquest Field and Six Flags Over Texas would be a plus but that there first should have been a master plan to create such an entertainment district.
Arlington voters will have to decide which view more closely fits their beliefs before they troop to the polls Nov. 2 to raise sales, hotel occupancy and car rental taxes to pay for half of the $650 million stadium.
Residents' share
Calculations based on information from City Treasurer Chuck Springer and the state comptroller's office estimate that if residents began paying for the stadium today, it would cost each person in the city about $21.64 more a year, or an additional $1.80 a month.
On one hand, critics of the Cowboys deal could say that it is inferior because the Rangers deal required far less debt. And, they could note, the Rangers provided an additional $1.5 million per year in rent to pay off the bond debt.
Boosters of the Cowboy deal note that while the city will get less in rent, its percentage of the overall cost is far less – 50 percent, vs. 71 percent for the ballpark.
To Mr. Greenberg, that's a key element in evaluating which deal was better – on an apples-to-apples basis.
"You have to look at the percentage because the costs of these things have escalated so much," he said.
The city also is getting naming-rights money, an additional $16.5 million over 30 years to bolster youth activities and a guarantee of participation by minority contractors in the construction – provisions not included in the ballpark deal.
"There were other factors that drove us toward this particular agreement instead of one just like the Rangers," Mr. McCollum said. "It's hard to quantify because it's like a stew. The ingredients are different than the other, but it's still a good stew."
Council member Joe Bruner is among those who believe the city learned from the Rangers negotiations in the early 1990s.
"As for doing a better job, well, practice makes perfect," he said. "On the naming rights, we've been able to be a little more creative. And using, for Jerry's part, the admissions tax and the parking tax.
"I don't know how the Cowboys look at it, but I thought they needed an image builder, and I suggested being able to contribute to the youth. ... We were in the position to ask for things like that to better the community, and they were in a position to offer it for their image."
Mr. Bruner also said the city was adamant about a nonrelocation clause, which would keep the team in Arlington for 30 years, plus optional 10-year extensions.
Evaluating benefits
Outside of the negotiating points, council member Kathryn Wilemon said, the air-conditioned, retractable-roof stadium would be good for the community because it could be used for non-Cowboys events year-round.
But Dr. Rosentraub has his doubts, based on how much money would the city dedicate every year compared with how much additional sales-tax revenue it would get for its general fund – the money used for police, fire and general operations. From that perspective, "investing" about $20 million each year into a stadium would get a "return" of about $2 million to $5 million more in general-fund money.
"Voters need to evaluate what they perceive the returns are worth on that commitment," he said.
Mr. Greenberg agreed, saying most economists believe stadiums generate enough revenue to pay off their own debt but not substantially more than that. He calls cities' willingness to foot part of the stadium bill a "franchise fee" or "the psychic value approach."
"But it's for the people there to decide whether there's the requisite value there to bear those types of costs," he said.
Ms. Wilemon said that from her perspective, there has been an unexpected benefit.
"It's really encouraging to me because the younger people, the people under 40, are asking questions and becoming excited," she said.
E-mail jgetz@dallasnews.com
THE NUMBERS GAME
Ballpark agreement (1991) Cowboys stadium proposal (2004)
Amount of bonds issued by city $135 million $325 million
Total project cost $191 million $650 million
City's share of cost 71 percent 50 percent
Amount that was/would be paid in interest $66 million $323 million
Annual rent team pays to city $2 million $2 million
Additional rent paid until bonds paid off $1.5 million None
Money to city from naming rights None Up to $500,000 annually
Term/commitment to play in city 30-year lease 30 years, plus two possible 10-year extensions
Money for youth activities in city Not applicable $16.5 million over 30 years
If additional money needed for bond payoff Team could add $1 ticket surcharge. Team could add 10% ticket fee, $3 parking surcharge.
Minority contracting in construction Not mentioned Follow state law
Other facilities Museum, children's learning center, youth ballpark, four-story office tower Dallas Cowboys Hall of Fame
Street/infrastructure improvements City and Tarrant County agreed to spend $2.5 million each. Tarrant County considering spending up to $25 million
Land Team, city swapped parcels to assemble land; city was sued over condemnations. $42 million to buy homes, businesses; condemnation by city possible
Expenses during events City not reimbursed Team to reimburse city
Additional sales tax paid per resident per year * $25.68 (based on 2000 population and sales tax) $21.64 (2004 estimated figures)
*calculated using Texas state comptroller figures
SOURCE: Dallas Morning News research
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...pare.4fe4.html
blah blah....
psukhu, who is that in your avatar?
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
HA! GC, that was exactly my response!!Originally Posted by gc
*rolls eyes*
Joey Fatone from N'Sync?? I'd be ashamed if it turns out to be him!
LOL. Looks like we'll get daily commentary and articles on this thing. I wonder if the Cowboys record will affect this thing.
Good point. "Swing voters" may not want to spend money on a bad team.
Has anybody here been "out on the town" recently in Arlington?
it would be interesting to see what percentage of rental cars rented in Arlington are by residents and how much that adds to the tax figure. It is amazing how much money(2.5 mil x 2) they are going to put into infrastructure for this project. That should alleviate all the traffic headaches.
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not...
Lol
When it comes to sarcasm, Wineguy is a can do poster. Looks like bloodandpopcorn dropped the ball on this one.
Dallas uber alles
CC, you and Wineguy are can do posters.
Where else is there a Bobby Valentine's?
Dallas uber alles
Is there also a Gino Pettrali's? or O'dbe(sp?) McDowell's? O'dbe's would be a good restaurant name.
BTW, Quincy signed with the Jets and still no mention of what happened in Dallas, only him saying he was surprised to be cut.
i think he was against the "arlington" stadium deal... jerry didn't like that.
I think the assumption is that he had some type of substance abuse problem, but you'll never hear the team confirm that due to the cba. Quincy hasn't done much himself, other than to say that he didn't test positive for cocaine, which is pretty elusive.
Usually the NFL is pretty quick to announce these things. That's all I'm saying. Its been speculated from day one that it was a drug suspension and nothing else. I'm just asking where the NFL is? Have they said what happened? How is he able to sign with the Jets? I'm just lost on this. Is it possible he was just cut the way Tony Banks was?
You can't cut a player for failing a drug test (at least, you can't do so with an official statement) due to the collective bargaining agreement. If a player has a drug problem, the process is suspension for the first offense with mandatory drug treatment; second offense is a four-game suspension with mandatory treatment and a third infraction provides the league (key words: "the League" and not an individual team) with the legal werewithall to ban that player indefinitely.
Thus, the Cowboys are being very vague publically about the reasons behind Quincy's dismissal, and the NFL isn't making any more of an issue out of it. Officially, Quincy was cut due to unsatisfactory perfomance and conduct (which are vague enough terms) but all hints suggest that he was cut due to another failed drug screening.
Celebrating the urban greatness of Texas: Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, El Paso and Fort Worth.
Perhaps this proves just how powerful JJ really is...
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
The NFL never announces anything concerning substance abuse violations, unless there is a suspension. The reason you haven't heard anything from the league is because Carter probably hasn't had enough violations to warrant a suspension. The speculation from Mickey Spagnola on The Ticket, as best I can recall, is that he entered the league with a drug problem and immediately entered the program, had his first violation around the time that he was benched after the Arizona game in '02, and then had a second violation around the time he was cut. This second violation would have resulted in a fine of 4 game checks and I'm guessing that this fine will follow him to the Jets. His next violation will likely result in a 4 game suspension, which probably scared Jerry and Bill quite a bit since it looked as if Carter was the likely starter. Nothing like making a run for the playoffs to have your starting QB sit out for dumbass reasons.
All I'm asking for is clarity, not speculation. Why is this all so hush-hush? And why would another team pick him up? I'm just lost. Who cares, its the Cowboys, a 3rd place in their division team.
It is staying hush-hush because, according to the league's collective bargaining agreement with the player's association, all matters relating to violation of the substance abuse policy are to remain confidential. You're not going to get much more clarity than that. The only reason that the suspensions make the news is because they are difficult to hide. You will find that you won't hear any in-depth details.
Why would another team pick him up? Your guess is as good as mine. I doubt he'll ever be anything more than a backup in the NFL.
Last edited by JBB; 24 August 2004 at 11:14 PM.
Being a stupid drug addict aside, all Carter did was quarterback a mediocre Cowboys team to the playoffs last year. I find it amusing he never seems to get any credit for that. And it's probably more than any of the three spares they have left will be able to pull off.
He would have gotten more credit if he looked like Troy Aikman.
Dallas uber alles
I asked that question in the context of the alleged 2nd strike. I understand that his image as a qb is much much better across the country than it is here. I blame the local media who did not want the guy here in the first place.
EDITORIAL: Who Lost the Cowboys?
A better question is what Arlington thinks it's doing
http://www.peoplenewspapers.com/Edit...?ArticleId=142
The recriminations have been flying fast and furious down at City Hall over why Arlington beat out Dallas to build the Cowboys’ new stadium. That, of course, assumes Arlington voters will approve the deal signed by their city leaders. It is hard to understand why any voters anywhere would agree to what the Cowboys propose. But the drums have started beating, the hawkers have started hawking, and boosterism is in full cry.
The deal is touted, on the front page of the Star-Telegram, as worth $7 billion to Tarrant County over 30 years. That figure comes from an outfit named Economics Research Associates. But on the very first page of ERA’s bare 49-page report is this notice, which the Star-Telegram, in its enthusiasm, must have overlooked:
“A full market and financial feasibility analysis has not been completed by ERA in connection with this proposed project. In lieu of us preparing a full market and financial feasibility analysis, we have relied upon information provided to us via the Cowboys and/or their independent consultant.”
Part of the data provided by the Cowboys shows that, in ticket sales alone, the deal is worth more than $1 billion over 30 years for the Jones’ family. The report goes on to try to quantify what the stadium will bring to Arlington in jobs, new businesses such as restaurants, and other economic activity.
In making this estimate, it admits that Arlington is only 21 percent of Tarrant County. It fails to take into account that Arlington is only about four percent of Dallas-Fort Worth. The report does admit that, due to Dallas being only minutes away, “some of the money generated by the proposed stadium development and the Cowboys may leak out of the city.”
In other words, Arlington voters are putting up half the money for the stadium — and levying new taxes to do it — but the new jobs and owners of the new businesses won’t be limited to residents of Arlington. The next time you go to Six Flags, ask the kids who work there where they live. The answer will be Grapevine, or Bedford, or Dallas, and maybe, just maybe, Arlington.
Since Arlington can’t impose a commuter tax, it’s building a stadium to benefit the rest of us, for which we should be grateful. How much will that benefit be? Since Dallas is by far the biggest entity in the region, Dallas will get the biggest benefit. Using the Cowboys’ numbers, if the stadium deal is indeed “worth” $7 billion, Dallas will capture somewhere near $3 billion of that benefit without paying a nickel.
So who made the better deal here, Dallas or Arlington?
Fifty years ago historian Albert Jay Nock wrote an essay entitled “Snoring as a Fine Art.” It’s about how the Russians defeated Napoleon’s invasion by basically doing nothing to stop it. (The title comes from the Russian field marshal’s penchant for napping during staff meetings.)
If Dallas was asleep at the wheel, as some are now claiming, we ought to be thankful that our officials were immobilized. Beware governments that want to prove how “aggressive” and “active” they are. They’re the ones that make bad deals for their taxpayers.
Mayor Laura Miller and County Judge Margaret Keliher have shown, in their respective jurisdictions, that they are good custodians of the taxpayers’ money. Jerry Jones, for his part, has shown that he is concerned about Jerry Jones, which no one ever doubted. Arlington, on the other hand, has shown, once again, that there’s one born every minute.
(To read the Economics Research Associates report on the proposed Cowboy stadium in Arlington, go to ci.arlington.tx.us.)
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
can't argue with that
LOL.
That 7 billion figure is supposed to be a bigger impact than the Jets stadium as well, which is supposed to be sort of a convention center and possibly host the Knicks as well in MANHATTAN. That should tell you something is wrong right off the bat.
We still need the Cotton Bowl renovated. We can't afford to lose the huge impacts of the events that take place there even if Dallas gets SOME of the benefit.
great editorial.
Exactly, so stop your complaing about a stadium in arlington. They pay and everyone benifits. Shhhhhh.
I drove from Downtown Dallas to the Ballpark last Sunday. It took only 15 minutes. It should be nice drive when I-30 is done.Dallas will capture somewhere near $3 billion of that benefit without paying a nickel.
I maintain that I'm not complaining about a stadium in Arlington, I hope they vote FOR it, but I haven't liked 3 things:
1)Jerry's dealings with Dallas
2)The desire to move Dallas events out of Fair Park
3)Praising of Arlington officials/Bashing of Dallas officials
and I happen to think Dallas should take this opportunity to make the Cotton Bowl something special, and maintain their events that have a bigger economic impact than a whole Cowboys season.
1) Agree
2) Agree
3) Agree
In my opinion, the economic impact for Arlington at their proposed site can't be compared to the economic impact Dallas would have received from either the Fair Park site or the Industrial site. We (Dallasites) wanted that stadium located at Fair Park in hopes that it would trigger much needed redevelopment of the surrounding area. The same holds true for the Industrial site. Because both of those locations are within 3 miles of Downtown Dallas, and/or served by future rail (Fair Park), the residual long term economic impact would be immeasurable due to all of the other projects Dallas has going on in and around Downtown (i.e. Victory, Cedars, Uptown, Cityplace, Main Street, etc.). Arlington has nothing on the scale that Dallas has in terms of development. So, while its true that the City of Dallas will benefit substantially from the Arlington-financed stadium, I think the question that really needs to be discussed is "How much more would the City of Dallas benefit above and beyond any residual benefit arising from the Arlington site, if the stadium were to be in Dallas?"
Last edited by Mballar; 26 August 2004 at 08:28 PM.
And that's why we need to kick butt on the Cotton Bowl. Al Lipscomb Classic, Cotton Bowl game, and TX-OU alone have a bigger impact on the Dallas economy than 8 Cowboys home games could ever have. Add to that, other concerts that the Cotton Bowl still gets, plus the possibility of turning the Cotton Bowl into a BCS game and possible Final Fours if you dome it. Dallas can still get that impact if they do things right with Fair Park and the Cotton Bowl. Remember, Dallas hasn't had the Cowboys for over 30 years.
Well said, R. Mbala.
personally, i wouldnt care if he moved the team to brownsville, if the cotton bowl gets recreated then thats a huge plus for dallas.
Jones: Team brand is valuable to city
By DAVID WETHE
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/9501280.htm
FORT WORTH - Fifteen years ago, oil baron Jerry Jones made his first public speech after buying the Dallas Cowboys at the Petroleum Club in downtown Fort Worth. Now, with the fate of his team's home hanging in the minds of Arlington voters, Jones returned to the Petroleum Club on Wednesday to pitch the value of the Cowboys brand and to detail how a new $650 million stadium could boost the city's image and its community.
"We are enthused and we are excited about the opportunity to be a part of Arlington's future," he said. "I know the sun doesn't come up and set with football. But to the extent that there are good things that can come from it ... we want to make sure we give the value to the community." Jones said the visibility of the Cowboys brand would help Arlington become a better city.
"To have that visibility is very, very strategic," he said. "When we first sat down and visited with the leaders in Arlington, one of the first things that came to my mind was that area wants to say, 'Come see us."' Jones, who was recently ranked as a billionaire by Forbes, made his comments Wednesday to a crowd of about 500 businesspeople, which included Arlington Mayor Robert Cluck and members of the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce and the Petroleum Club.
It was one of the few times the Cowboys owner has publicly campaigned for a new stadium in Arlington. When asked after his speech if he would start to be more of a public face on the Cowboys stadium campaign in the next few weeks, Jones said, "Really, only as opportunity must." Sports marketing experts agree with Jones that the Cowboys brand is one of the most recognizable in the sports world and beyond. "With a powerful brand like the Cowboys, it will definitely help the community because people want to be near the team," said Becky Vallett, executive editor of Team Marketing Report. "Businesses and sponsors will want to associate with them."
The Cowboys brand has helped the Irving Convention & Visitors Bureau recruit new meetings to town, said Maura Gast, head of the bureau. Hotels attributed 4,215 room nights last season to the Cowboys, Gast said. A team's brand can have a strong effect on a city's source of pride. But how that brand value translates into dollars for the community is hard to pinpoint. "It's almost like the criteria that's used to be a gymnastics judge," said Dan Migala, publisher of The Migala Report, a sports newsletter. "There are a variety of different factors." Marketing experts tend to rank the Cowboys brand among the top five sports brands in the world, along with other teams such as the New York Yankees in baseball, the Los Angeles Lakers in pro basketball and Manchester United in soccer.
The Cowboys were ranked as the second-most valuable NFL team -- behind the Redskins -- with a value of $871 million in 2002, when the most recent numbers were available, according to Forbes magazine. Today, the team is expected to announce the next step in enhancing its brand image -- the rollout of a 24-hour Cowboys channel on Comcast cable in the Dallas area.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
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