Can you say major propaganda?
It is simply amazing what some people consider to ba a logical argument.
Herb Gears; sorry, you failed to convince me that your best interest are in my best interest.
Can you say major propaganda?
Man, I'd really like to see a few large-scale color renderings of the initial plans like the tiny one in this article:
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news1_032403.html
At least we have that black + white rendering from earlier in the thread - I'm just looking for more!
Cowboys, mayor discuss team's stadium proposal
Miller seeks details of project that would raise hotel, car-rental taxes
08/06/2003
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
The Dallas Cowboys met Tuesday with Mayor Laura Miller to share their vision for a new publicly funded stadium. Ms. Miller urged them to train their sights on the details.
The first meeting between Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and Ms. Miller, a vocal opponent of tax-financed arenas, did not seem to go well for the team.
Ms. Miller said it was clear the team wants her to "cheerlead" the project, which would require voter approval.
"It was very compelling what they had to say, but it was not about the deal points," Ms. Miller said. "I am the one who brought up the deal points."
Cowboys officials put a much better face on the meeting, calling it productive and saying they hope to meet again with the mayor.
"We appreciated the opportunity to meet with the mayor and formally present our project to the city of Dallas," Stephen Jones, the team's vice president, said in a written statement.
Dallas County commissioners are gearing up to negotiate a deal with the Cowboys, but Ms. Miller is considered a key factor in the project's future if the team decides to build the stadium in Dallas.
The Cowboys are touting plans for a stadium and entertainment development that would cost as much as $1 billion. The team wants to draw as much as $400 million from hotel and car-rental taxes, which would have to be raised countywide by 3 percent and 6 percent, respectively.
Voters would have to approve the higher taxes, and city voters account for 52 percent of the county's electorate. The team says it would like to have the election in 2004. A site would be named before the referendum takes place, according to the Cowboys and county commissioners.
The 3 percent increase in the hotel tax would put Dallas' rate at 18 percent, which Ms. Miller and others have said would be the highest rate among big cities.
Ms. Miller said she raised that point with Mr. Jones and his son, who were joined at the meeting by Rob Allyn, Ms. Miller's former campaign strategist who is a spokesman for the Cowboys on the project.
The mayor said she also urged the team owners to guarantee in writing that they would build the surrounding development.
The city spent $125 million in hotel and car-rental taxes to help build American Airlines Center. That project has not yet attracted significant economic development around it, despite assurances from its developers that it would.
Voters "are not going to be satisfied with a huge subsidy for a sports stadium with no written promises to build all these wonderful private projects around it," Ms. Miller said. "Because they have done that twice before and didn't get what they were promised."
The mayor said she would meet with team officials in the future. She said the Joneses indicated they would begin talking with other local elected officials.
"This is the beginning of their public campaign, and I think they are going out now and sell the brand," the mayor said.
Cowboys take to air to tout stadium plans
Radio ads during game say project will boost economy immediately
08:31 PM CDT on Monday, September 29, 2003
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews...ium.5aced.html
The economy is stagnant. Convention centers are empty. Who will answer Big D's call for help?
Dallas County commissioners, shine that bright Blue Star signal into the night sky. America's Team will help you turn it around.
At least that's the message in radio ads that began running during the Dallas Cowboys' game Sunday against the New York Jets. The spots, which ran on KLUV-FM (98.7), tout the Cowboys' vision for a new stadium development that will "provide an immediate boost to our economy, create thousands of new jobs and have an impact worth billions," according to one spot.
The ads also hype the development's many dimensions. Not just a football stadium, Cowboys Park will include shops, restaurants, acres of public sports fields and an extreme sports park, the ads state.
Cowboys officials said the radio ads air only during game broadcasts. But the team is producing television spots that will play during its Cowboys programming on KTVT-TV (Channel 11) and on the video board at Texas Stadium.
"It gets labeled a stadium project, and our goal is to educate people and to let them know we are trying to create a year-round destination," said Brett Daniels, a Cowboys spokesman. "It could host Super Bowls and Final Fours and Bowl Championship Series games and not just be a football stadium for the Cowboys."
The voices in the ads belong to Darren Woodson, the team's squeaky-clean safety, and Charlie Waters and Cliff Harris, former Pro Bowl players for the team.
"Dallas Cowboys Park will be a premier, year-round attraction for North Texas, drawing millions of tourists and valuable convention business," Mr. Waters says in one spot.
Although the ads mention the team's partnership with Dallas County, they do not mention the price of that pairing. The team has indicated it would like the county to levy a hotel and car-rental tax that would raise about $400 million for the stadium. The anticipated total cost is $650 million, according to team estimates.
Voters would have to approve any new taxes. The team and the county have said they anticipate an election in November 2004.
Cowboys officials said the ads are not meant specifically to woo votes, although they acknowledge that some fans who hear them are potential voters.
"It is just taking advantage of the season to reach out to fans who have an interest and let them know what we are starting to put together," Mr. Daniels said.
Dallas County commissioners have not started their negotiations with the Cowboys. Commissioners have been assembling their own team of lawyers and financial experts to advise them in dealings with the team.
"If the advertisement is for the benefit of the fans and consumers, that is fine," Commissioner Jim Jackson said. "If it's more for the benefit of the commissioners, I'd say save their money."
The Cowboys have not announced a site for the project, saying that it could be in Irving's Las Colinas area or downtown Dallas. And although the ads cite the development's potential impact on convention business, team officials say that isn't a tip of the hat to Dallas.
"I would not read that much into it," Mr. Daniels said. "If you have a large facility, you can host large events. We are open to putting the facility to use 365 days a year – be it sports events, conventions, concerts or trade shows."
E-mail dmichaels@dallasnews.com
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
County says it will pass on an advisory panel with Cowboys
Commissioners think committee would complicate stadium task
10:46 PM CDT on Friday, October 3, 2003
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews...ium.a1c01.html
No more middlemen.
Dallas County commissioners have decided they will not involve an advisory committee in their negotiations to build a publicly funded stadium. It is at least the fourth time the county has changed its approach to dealing with the Dallas Cowboys.
The move appears to concentrate more responsibility in the hands of county commissioners. Commissioners eventually will craft a deal with the Cowboys that will be presented to voters.
Commissioner John Wiley Price said he decided that an advisory committee would only complicate the task.
"The more I pondered it, the more I felt as though it would be another layer we would have to deal with," Mr. Price said. "It was not as though we were investing any authority in them."
Mr. Price and County Judge Margaret Keliher had persuaded fellow commissioners to go along with the advisory committee. They thought of populating it with experienced members such as former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk, who negotiated the deal to build American Airlines Center.
The committee would have advised commissioners but not made any decisions. Some commissioners said the committee's work would have been repetitive, because commissioners already plan to hire attorneys and consultants to guide their dealings with the team.
Mr. Price approached Mr. Kirk about serving on the committee. But the former mayor did not seem disappointed to learn the committee was not needed.
"I just didn't understand what it would do," Mr. Kirk said, declining to elaborate.
Ms. Keliher said Friday that she still believes an advisory committee is worthwhile.
"Being very realistic, there are people in this county who know more about these deals than we do," Ms. Keliher said.
Ms. Keliher said that Mr. Kirk expressed reservations about the large number of people involved in the process if the county named an advisory committee.
"Since you already have five on the [commissioners] court, [he thought] that would be enough," Ms. Keliher said.
The Cowboys are pushing plans to build a football-themed development worth $1 billion. A football stadium would be its centerpiece, but the project would also include shops, restaurants, acres of public sports fields and a Cowboys Hall of Fame.
The stadium would cost about $650 million, according to team estimates. The team wants the county to fund about $400 million through a countywide hotel and car-rental tax.
If commissioners propose the 3 percent tax, voters will have to approve it. The 3 percent would increase the hotel tax in the city of Dallas to 18 percent, which would be among the highest rates in the country, according to critics of the measure.
The tax on car rentals would increase by 6 percent.
The team has not announced where it would build the project, but officials say sites in Irving's Las Colinas and downtown Dallas are being considered. Commissioners say the team must announce a site before the referendum.
Commissioners have started their own preparations for the development. They issued a request for proposals from attorneys and consultants on Sept. 23. Those experts will form the core of the county's advisors.
The responses to the request are due Oct. 30.
The team, meanwhile, has started its own advertising campaign. The Cowboys began running radio ads last weekend. The ads describe the project as an economic boon to Dallas County.
In addition to being the new home of the Cowboys, the stadium could play host to a Super Bowl, college bowl game and NCAA basketball, team officials said.
E-mail dmichaels@dallasnews.com
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Dallas Cowboys Park
Has this been linked here before. Wow! we need to get this thing downtown if for nothing else but the youth fields and Legend's Square. They mention it being withing walking distance to residents. Let's make those the residents on Lamar and not Las Colinas (which is still an ok site).
Legends Square
This rendering of the fields is very interesting to me. Is that a high school sized stadium that could have hosted the Burn? A high school Stadium? Or one of those fields that rolls into the stadium? I'd guess one of the first two.
Did you notice that it says the new stadium would be able to adapt to a number of events including the Cotton Bowl.
Imagine the Cotton Bowl played somewhere elses besides the Cotton Bowl. I bet money on it that Jerry is thinking Texas-OU too.
I've heard people say to build it in Fair Park. If your going to go that route, why don't Dallas abuse eminent domain and build it right beside Fair Park. That way Fair Park stays as is and the new plan could be an extension of Fair Park during the fair.
The site in the renderings and video is obviously the downtown site!
I hate to get excited about this because I have a really bad feeling that Las Colinas has already been chosen as the site.
jsoto,
Do you think for a moment that if they were thinking of building it in Las Colinas that they would not show Downtown? They need the Dallas voters, just not their wishes.
...pondering again.....Cotton Bowl in Las Colinas?
Translation: John Wiley Price has decided that it will be easier to rubber stamp the proposal put out by the Jerry Jones Corp. without some nosey no-good advisory committee gettin' involved with whatever sweet under-the-table deal they have offered him.Originally posted by GCarey
County says it will pass on an advisory panel with Cowboys
Commissioners think committee would complicate stadium task
10:46 PM CDT on Friday, October 3, 2003
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
No more middlemen.
Dallas County commissioners have decided they will not involve an advisory committee in their negotiations to build a publicly funded stadium. It is at least the fourth time the county has changed its approach to dealing with the Dallas Cowboys.
Another Reason that Las Colinas is the site of the new Cowboys Stadium: Legends Sqaure. The Cedars. Homeless people. Never happen.
It's downtown or nowhere if a Dallas County election is required.
Better write your County Commissioner then.
Laura Miller will have zero say in this, just like Jerry Jones intended.
Will there be a public vote to decide on the location? (downtown vs. Las Colinas)
Not sure about that Psukhu, but doubtful in my opinion.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
The only way we lose this is if they can get this on the ballot without committing to a location first.
Boy, we can't let THAT happen.
I think it's already happened. There's not a lot we can do.
So, is it likely the exact location (DT or Las Colinas) will not have to be stated on the ballot??? What's up with that? Have city officials stated this?
I'm certain that if everyone rallied enough support to contact their reps (as was stated earlier) and the mayor (if she even has any pull in this - at least we know she's outspoken), perhaps enough outcry from the majority of the citizens of Dallas would squash any plans for Irving to get the stadium...
I agree.
I think in addition to the City of Dallas residents, people from other Dallas County cities like Garland, Mesquite and Richardson would prefer the downtown location. (easy access via rail and/or bus)
Indeed.
I think we'll see a lot of people thinking "well, i go on the train to Mavs and Stars games, and it's so easy and unstressful. If the stadium is downtown, then I can just hop on a train and get there. in los collinas i could get there via train, but, i would have to switch at least once each way, and i dont particularly want to have to switch really late at night."
How close would the Los Collinas location even be to a rail station?
I agree, we have to get the county commissioners to have a SET LOCATION on the ballot for this. If the ballot doesn't say the stadium will 100% for sure be downtown, then we need to vote it down.
Why are some of you guys saying the Irving site is some under-the-table done deal? Do you have any concrete basis at all for such an insidious conspiracy?
Obviously, what the Cowboys are planning will work much better downtown than in any suburban location. (Hotels, conventions, year-round attractions, etc.) I think they are just showing a little political courtesy to long-time landlord Irving by saying Los Colinas is an option. When all the time, their only plan is for Downtown Dallas.
If we're just going to toss theories out there, that's mine.
Last edited by TexasStar; 02 February 2004 at 06:31 PM.
I personally agree TexasStar.
And no, there is absolutely no concrete evidence either way.
That is why, I guess, people speculate!?
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
I have no concrete basis, just my unwavering pessimistic worldview.
I like your theory TexasStar
- Don't know if anyone remembers, but the Las Colinas site is actually in competition with Irving's own small convention center. It was voted down recently, but I imagine like any item, it will return.
- For anyone that has watched the video, that is definitely the downtown site. To fit all of the the Las Colinas site would have to be noticeably different because the land would have to wrap Lake Carolyn.
- After seeing the alignment report on DART.org, Jerry World will have a harder time fitting where it wants at the Las Colinas site
- Would Exxon-Mobil actually want Jerry World as a neighbor?
- A year round venue in Las Colinas? Wouldn't get the foot traffic or numbers it would downtown. Especially when we're talking about museums.
- Jerry World is being built to compete with the Superdome, Reliant, Ford Field, Alamodome, Qualcomm, and the Georgia Dome for the Final Fours, Superbowls, larger concerts, sport conventions, BCS bowl bid, etc. Those stadiums listed above would have an enormous outside atmosphere and amenities advantage over a Las Colinas stadium. Even though Reliant is close to 610, it's still closer to downtown than Texas Stadium is. You have to have fan activities, hotel space, and bar/club/hosting places to host these events. Yes there is DART, and yes there would be some created at Jerry World, but compare that to the downtown site. The downtown site would have more of all of those within a short rail trip, or even walking distance for those that don't mind. You'd also have the Trinity River Park right next to you for additional activity. Yes, Las Colinas is more neutral, but you only play 8 home games per year. Is that more revenue producing than a year round pro-shop, museum, bars, restaurants, bigger events and tourism dollars a downtown site would bring?
Those are reasons why I think the Las Colinas site isn't in the bag. Location, Location, Location for the big picture is what is important, and the county was approached to get around Miller(chuckle) and to get a larger revenue stream since there would simply be more dollars faster with the whole county.
Yes, I think the Las Colinas site would be fine, but I think for what the Cowboys want to do, they'd be fools not to take the Cedars site, or work out something with the State Fair.
good points, rantanamo.
It's the facts that tell me he has already chosen Las Colinas.Originally posted by TexasStar
Why are some of you guys saying the Irving site is some under-the-table done deal? Do you have any concrete basis at all for such an insidious conspiracy?
Obviously, what the Cowboys are planning will work much better downtown than an any suburban location. (Hotels, conventions, year-round attractions, etc.) I think they are just showing a little political courtesy to long-time landlord Irving by saying Los Colinas is an option. When all the time, their only plan is for Downtown Dallas.
If we're just going to toss theories out there, that's mine.
You said it yourself, "what the Cowboys are planning will work much better downtown".
If the choice was downtown, why would you have an alternate of Las Colinas? Of course you would get your votes!!! Everyone here wants downtown to succeed, including me. I'm sure Jerry's advisors did some polling before they went public. They know it would probably pass in a second!
Other scenario: Las Colinas is the choice. It's closer to the white upper/middleclass areas of the Metroplex. There are no wandering homeless or petty street crime. People don't piss on your doorstep. But are the people of Dallas gonna vote such a sweet deal to what is basically a suburb? Hell no!
And Jerry knows this. That's why the downtown dream will get the votes needed.
Isn't the fact that they are bypassing the city and dealing directly with the county enough evidence? The city would demand some kind of guarentee that it would be downtown, wouldn't they?
Another warning flag: John Wiley Price. This is a man who believes that political action involves carrying signs calling Laura Miller "Bitch" and "Satan" picketing her house. She once wrote an article in the Dallas Observer about him being a rapist. Do you think they are gonna put aside their differences and work together for a new stadium in downtown Dallas?
I love that some of you are so optimistic but business is business and the day there is a family-oriented sports theme park next to the Cedars (which is homeless central at the moment) is the day Jerry pays for the whole thing himself.
And with the Cowboys kickin' ass this season, ya'll better get ready to watch the boy's playin' from Las Colinas.
Why would Jerry risk such an important vote by throwing a sop to Irving? He wouldn't. He knows that adding Irving as a choice is going to cost him votes! That is why it is the choice!!!Originally posted by TexasStar
I think they are just showing a little political courtesy to long-time landlord Irving by saying Los Colinas is an option.
Do you see?
If it was downtown, there would be no other options because he would have more votes, not less.
Well, Honestly, I don't think that will happen.
I think it's likely that Los Collinas is the pick right now. But if that is stated on the ballot, or even if no location is stated, there are enough violently anti-Los-Collinas people (yours truely included) that it will not pass. So they may eventually play in Los Collias, but they won't be getting a penny from Dallas County. All the people that helped Victory pass? We will be fighting vehemently against this. In addition to the normal anti-new-development people.
So, I hope for Jerry's sake that it's the Downtown site. He'll really get a kick to his reputation and ego when this fails if he's chosen Los Collinas.
Every plan must have multiple sites this early in the game. The AAC did. The Ballpark did. I'm sure that Texas Stadium did. Why do we assume that the site won't be chosen before the vote? Remember it is over 1 year away.Originally posted by boozo
It's the facts that tell me he has already chosen Las Colinas.
You said it yourself, "what the Cowboys are planning will work much better downtown".
If the choice was downtown, why would you have an alternate of Las Colinas? Of course you would get your votes!!! Everyone here wants downtown to succeed, including me. I'm sure Jerry's advisors did some polling before they went public. They know it would probably pass in a second!
Other scenario: Las Colinas is the choice. It's closer to the white upper/middleclass areas of the Metroplex. There are no wandering homeless or petty street crime. People don't piss on your doorstep. But are the people of Dallas gonna vote such a sweet deal to what is basically a suburb? Hell no!
And Jerry knows this. That's why the downtown dream will get the votes needed.
Isn't the fact that they are bypassing the city and dealing directly with the county enough evidence? The city would demand some kind of guarentee that it would be downtown, wouldn't they?
Another warning flag: John Wiley Price. This is a man who believes that political action involves carrying signs calling Laura Miller "Bitch" and "Satan" picketing her house. She once wrote an article in the Dallas Observer about him being a rapist. Do you think they are gonna put aside their differences and work together for a new stadium in downtown Dallas?
I love that some of you are so optimistic but business is business and the day there is a family-oriented sports theme park next to the Cedars (which is homeless central at the moment) is the day Jerry pays for the whole thing himself.
And with the Cowboys kickin' ass this season, ya'll better get ready to watch the boy's playin' from Las Colinas.
You're missing the point on the county. You go to the county for a very simple reason, just as Houston's sport authority is for Harris County. MORE TAX DOLLARS, and less tie-ups in city government. This development will be super expensive. More than twice the AAC. There are tons of hotels and rental car establishments in the county that aren't in Dallas proper. Why limit one's self when the endeavor is much greater. As far as the city goes, the County government is more organized to a wide municipal body than a city government that has members who are serving small districts. If this was a city vote, council members would have much more of an opportunity to impose their belief on their constituency who trusts them. Districts 12 and 13 could be deciding the whole thing. Taking it to the county level will add more voters who have more of an opportunity to listen to the pitch for themselves. Especially with many of them being outside the Dallas City Council member circles of influence. The AAC should have been done this way.
There go the homeless again. Remember, the police hq would only be a couple of blocks from this thing. If Jerry wants the homeless away, they won't be there. It's that simple. By your logic, The State Fair should be doing horribly instead of breaking it's all-time revenue record by 10%. It sits adjacent to the city's worse crime, drug and prostitution area. Or people wouldn't take their children to the Dallas Zoo in groves either. How about Farmers Market? I take my sister ocassionally, and I see thousands of suburbanites there. What about Farmers Market? DMA? Fact is, they will go wherever the attraction is. Why would Jerry World be any different? Heck people drive all the way out to TMS. It's not like they are just going to plop this stadium in the middle of what's there. This would be a total clearing and rebuild of this land. Not much of a place to hang out. If I recall correctly though, most are downtown and to the east of this site. No one hangs out in this area. There are nothing but old warehouses at the site now.
It comes down to the other factors, such as what would attract the big events. These are what make the big money that Jerry is looking for. Tx-OU actually makes more money for Dallas in one weekend than whole seasons of the Cowboys make in Irving for example. Look at the past few final fours, superbowls, Olympics, Big XII basketball tourney and NCCA tourney at the AAC and Reunion. Listening to sports and talk radio you get lots of candid interviews with the players and fans who come out to these events. They will say, wow, this is a great city no matter where, but the stories are always the same. In San Diego you can take the trains or walk right to the bars and restaurants. Look at TX-OU. There are bars, restaurants and clubs all over town. But where does everyone go, no-matter where they are staying?: The West End and Deep Ellum. Downtowns have a lot to say in such events. Heck, look at our own Olympic bid. What was the complaint? It was too spread out. What's the complaint about the ballpark? It's too remote. Why do people complain about the Orange Bowl and Superbowl being played at the Dolphins digs instead of the Orange Bowl? They say it's too far away from the action.
Maybe you guys are right. Maybe Jerry wants Las Colinas badly. I just hope that he is looking at the great venues in sports versus the average, must be replaced in 25 years stadiums. The great ones are where the action is.
Excellent post, Rantanamo.
I agree 100%
Common sense will prevail and Dallas will be the host to at least 3 of the next 10 superbowls after 2008.
I totally understand the Upper class/Middle Class logic of Las Colinas.
But that is why DTD would be better. Most everyone has access to a rail station close to their home whether in Dallas, Collin, or Tarrant County.
I have a suburban mindset because that is where i grew up and i will defend the suburbs in certain terms, but building the stadium in Las Colinas is bad. It has nothing to do with location. It has to do with accessibility. Nothing else. Doesn't have anything to do with being DTD for me. I could care less if it was there. Las Colinas will never have the accessibility that DTD has.
But if it ends up in Las Colinas, it probably won't matter for me. I've never gone to a game. I have always watched them on TV.
By the way, HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS!!!!! WOO HOOOOO!!!! 5-1 BABY!!!!
Last edited by mikedsjr; 20 October 2003 at 03:12 PM.
All of the AAC sites were around downtown.Originally posted by rantanamo
Every plan must have multiple sites this early in the game. The AAC did. The Ballpark did. I'm sure that Texas Stadium did. Why do we assume that the site won't be chosen before the vote? Remember it is over 1 year away.
And I remember I heard on the news that these will be the two choices up to the vote with the decision coming after. That's why I am suspicious that downtown is a red herring.
I don't agree. Fair Park, Farmers Market and the Dallas Zoo are all nice areas. SouthEast of Fair Park is bad but Fair Park is a nice/cool neighborhood (my opinion).Originally posted by rantanamo
There go the homeless again. Remember, the police hq would only be a couple of blocks from this thing. If Jerry wants the homeless away, they won't be there. It's that simple. By your logic, The State Fair should be doing horribly instead of breaking it's all-time revenue record by 10%. It sits adjacent to the city's worse crime, drug and prostitution area. Or people wouldn't take their children to the Dallas Zoo in groves either. How about Farmers Market? I take my sister ocassionally, and I see thousands of suburbanites there. What about Farmers Market? DMA? Fact is, they will go wherever the attraction is. Why would Jerry World be any different? Heck people drive all the way out to TMS. It's not like they are just going to plop this stadium in the middle of what's there. This would be a total clearing and rebuild of this land. Not much of a place to hang out. If I recall correctly though, most are downtown and to the east of this site. No one hangs out in this area. There are nothing but old warehouses at the site now.
However, the Cedars/City Hall is full of the people who just got kicked out of the Downtown Library. When I ride my bike, the Cedars/City Hall area is the one where I am most on my guard. They throw 40 ounces at me and they sleep everywhere on the sidewalk and urinate and defecate everywhere. All this within blocks of the new police station. Go have a look sometime.
Everyone here is so positive on urban renewal (and there is nothing wrong with that, it rocks) that they tend to ignore the bad parts of the deal. However, Jerry Jones is a businessman and I have no doubt he is gonna choose whatever will make the most money.
Question for you rantanamo: If the State Fair never existed before and they were looking for a site today to put it, do you think they would put it where it is now?
boozo,
Maybe what Jerry invisions will have its own security force that is in someways equal and cooperates with the dallas police dept. Kind of like Bass Security where the protect that region 24/7.
If you want that large of an open entertainment center, then you might need to consider having your own security force.
What would be great is if they could build this close to West End and Victory/AAC. Then you could have a large entertainment package.
I wonder what Jerry did this weekend. He had the perfect opportunity to tour first hand the kind of project he could build. Or maybe he took the opportunity last year. Haven't heard too much complaining from Detroit about their new stadiums which were built in a rundown part of their downtown.
Not that I'd expect the Jones' or the regular uninitiated non-forumer folk who don't travel much (and who may think a trip to Tyler is extremely exciting) to understand and write it off as easily as I do - but, the cyclic homeless location currently being in Cedars isn't a reason I could digest to not initiate plans to build there. I've been up in Seattle long enough (off and on since '92) to watch migration patterns of concentrated overnighters by homeless and the showers they take with bottled water left on the deck of Pioneer Square. Big deal. Nearly all tourists in Seattle are forced to walk past the waterfront, Westlake area, and Pioneer Square homeless to all the tourist destinations. Seattle Center and the Needle have 'em too. Never really hear many complaints since most (but NOT all) the homeless found new places to reside - such as Freeway Park which is a location more known only by locals in and around the Hill communities.
Pioneer Square is adjacent to two massive new stadiums for professional sports and it's a shit hole to some people - and and uber haven for others. It's eclectic and cool, and, fearsome and loathesome to others - depending on the time of day. But, it's changed slightly already - and seems to be doing so every quarter of the fiscal year. Either that's the 2 year warning of gentrification of an area deemed 'cool' a la Deep Ellum, or, it's just big business changing the facets of an entire neighborhood... not sure entirely. Too early to tell, but, the impact of the 2 stadiums is profound. The Cowboys stadium could supercede the impact of these two all by itself due to more int'l notoriety and proximity to instant conventioneer tourism - well maybe.
Rambling, yes. But, think about it... You know how many cities have re-invented an area and watched it grow into a 'better' (gentrified or just plain clean or decent) area? The list is nearly endless. The Cedars of now doesn't have to be the Cedars we assume it to be 5 or 10 years from now. My opinion is that we're not rooting for the making of any area of Dallas to be a utopia, just a bit better step by step. I frankly don't care if I have to step over a guy who just threw down his urine on the curb while en route to the Park to visit. Yeah, that's not appropriate - but, it's not anything I haven't seen before either. Heh. I think it's obvious there would be a crack-down by law enforcement in the area to alleviate any so-called 'problems' of that nature from happening, anyway.
Jerry Jones has lofty plans for new stadium
from sportsbusinessnews.com
Jerry Jones might be just one year from moving ahead with his plan for a $1 billion stadium and complex.
An official proposal for Jones' vision of a new state-of-the-art football stadium and adjoining real estate development plan, known as Dallas Cowboys Park, is expected to be delivered to the Dallas County Commissioners Court by April. That and this report from the F.W. Star Telegram's Jeff Caplan
Once in the hands of the county commissioners, intense negotiations will ensue between the Cowboys' team of lawyers, consultants and business leaders and the county commissioners' team that is being assembled. A location, either downtown Dallas -- likely on the banks of the Trinity River -- or Las Colinas, must be solidified. Then, numerous other matters will follow.
A major concern for the county commissioners is the development plan for the land surrounding the stadium. Proposed real estate development around American Airlines Center has yet to happen. That township of shops, restaurants and other businesses are, theoretically, the icing that ultimately turns stadiums and arenas into year-round tourist attractions and economic assets.
Hoteliers footed a good portion of the bill to fund the building of American Airlines Center, so the Hotel Association of Greater Dallas and the county commissioners are skeptical about funding two-thirds of Cowboys Park through another hotel and car-rental tax that would affect all of Dallas County, not just the city.
Jones is proposing a tax increase to generate a projected $400 million of the projected $650 stadium cost. During American Airlines Center negotiations, current Dallas Mayor Laura Miller spoke out against the deal because she believed it was one-sided, that the city invested too much money and did not reap sufficient benefits.
Dallas County commissioners are talking as if they plan to drive a hard bargain with the Cowboys.
"In order for a referendum to happen they [the Cowboys] have to put together a plan with some public benefit," County Commissioner Jim Jackson said. "I'm not going to vote for a referendum at this time. There has to be a reason to do it."
When the Cowboys and county commissioners eventually shake hands on a deal, likely some time during the summer, and set a November referendum in motion, the future of Cowboys Park will fall to Dallas County voters. But the year leading up to a referendum won't come without protest. The Cowboys can expect their most vocal adversaries to be the Hotel Association of Greater Dallas.
"I think you'll see them mount a very vigorous campaign," county commissioner Mike Cantrell said.
The association staunchly opposes a tax hike. It claims a tax increase would give Dallas the highest occupancy tax rate in the country, which hoteliers argue damages their competitiveness with other cities, especially for landing group business affairs.
Sandi Bailey, executive director of the Hotel Association of Greater Dallas, said the organization is forming its own committee to study the Cowboys' impending proposal. She said hotels have been hard hit by the downturn in the economy and that they can not absorb a tax hike.
"I anticipate we are going to oppose the stadium because of the hotel occupancy tax," Bailey said. "That is just speculation at this point. We couldn't tolerate another hit."
The Cowboys envision an economic engine, a state-of-the art stadium that will seat 75,000 for Cowboys games and can be expanded to 100,000 under a retractable roof. The Cowboys believe the complex will lure big-ticket events year-round, such as the Super Bowl, Final Four, concerts, national championship rodeos, business conventions, political conventions and more.
"Events that the Metroplex doesn't have the capability of hosting at this time," Cowboys spokesman Brett Daniels said. "We just believe that when we are able to put the entire plan out there on the table that everyone will see the economic benefits to the entire Metroplex."
Last month, the Cowboys launched a savvy set of radio and television spots, plus an Internet tour of the vision, concepts and images of Cowboys Park to get the word out to their fan base first.
Daniels said a key piece of the plan is to secure real estate development deals that would parallel the construction of the stadium, ensuring that land development will not stagnate as just a concept on paper.
"It is going to be critical for us to look at all the different revenue sources that are applicable out there and also to tie in what happened at the AAC," Cantrell said. "That is going to be important for us to be able to convey to the public that we're not going to have another AAC where the stadium got built and the subsequent"
Last edited by mikedsjr; 05 November 2003 at 02:25 PM.
I would consider Seattle a more liberal city than Dallas.Originally posted by CTroyMathis
Nearly all tourists in Seattle are forced to walk past the waterfront, Westlake area, and Pioneer Square homeless to all the tourist destinations. Seattle Center and the Needle have 'em too. Never really hear many complaints since most (but NOT all) the homeless found new places to reside - such as Freeway Park which is a location more known only by locals in and around the Hill communities.
Let's look at this from another direction. Why does the population of the metroplex keep expanding ever-northward?
Where is the middle class living?
Who are the people that make up the Cowboy's stadium crowds and fan base?
Why is the population center shifting north?
http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...2073#post12073
It's admirable that you guys love Dallas so much and would love to see the Cedars fixed up. Me too!
But when I look at this deal from a businessman's perspective,
I will want to be where my fan base is located.
Isn't that mostly to the north? How many people in South Dallas have luxury boxes? Even season tickets?
Good points!
(BTW, I think nearly all cities/urban areas in the Northern Hemisphere grow northward while their sewer systems flow southward. Not the rule, but, generally speaking it seems to hold true.)
San Diego should have built their new baseball stadium in La Jolla instead of on the borderline area of abandoned warehouses and the Barrio for the middle and upper class to more enjoy. Thankfully, transit via their LRT goes right by. So does the CRT Coaster, but not sure it actually stops by there yet. Homeless all over the place there as well. Even a few nasty little prostitutes. Once again, SDCA probably isn't the best example for relating to Dallas since it's also pretty liberal et al. But, at least from the land use standpoint - it's another good example.
two issues to address:
first, the las colinas site is more north than the cedars area DT (meaning closer to higher-earning individuals), which would likely be a better draw for the team to sell luxury boxes. The DT site would just be better for DTD and the surrounding area.
second, san diego's new stadium is being built (appears close to being completed) in a run-down area of DTSD. however, with the unbelievable growth that san diego is experiencing DT, the "blemished" area around the stadium will turn around bit by bit... until all of those warehouses are filled with residences, retail, restaurants, and business. and with the high-rise boom going on there - don't be surprised to see a few of those popping up in and around this now dilapidated area.
although our DT is not as robust as SD's, the cedars' area would greatly benefit from the stadium. that area is going to redevelop into something nice someday - the stadium would just push the timeline forward more quickly...
Did anyone hear about Rowlette throwing their hat into the ring?
I heard on 1080 AM that they are willing to donate 1000 lake front acres.
yeah...can you believe this?
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
A little concerning at first glance, but it would never happen there.
I think this is good because it will only hurt the Los Colinas option help the DT option.
With outer cities fighting over it, it makes DT look logical because of the central location.
So let's put together a Cedar Hill/Joe Pool lake plan...
Rowlett has got to be a punch line to a cowboy joke.
I agree psukhu....
I'll admit that at first I thought it was weird.....and I certainbly don't think it would work in Rowlett for various reasons.
BUT a lakefront stadium would be pretty cool......
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
According to NBC 5 last night, It's the I-30 @ GBT Interchange? Did anyone else see this news last night? I heard this from another room, and was shocked to hear it, so maybe I heard wrong. Did they mean Garland, which is where that interchange is actually gonna be located? If so, then you can throw the central location issue out the window.
Interestingly, there isn't much in that area of Garland except a beautiful view of Lake Ray Hubbard's other shores, a large shoreline park, and a bunch of old condos that are going to be torn down for the interchange. Also interesting is the fact that DART owns the rail ROW that runs right through there. What many may not realize is that Garland/Rowlett/Rockwall were actually being sued over the Ray Hubbard shoreline, since it was owned by Dallas for parks. They were forced to rent/buy the land from Dallas. I believe they are also stipulated to give some of the land up, meaning the stadium might actually end up in Dallas if Dallas wants to annex the land back. They've already exercised this in Forney on the south shore of Ray Hubbard.
No other details in the report. I still want it downtown, but was just surprised to hear about this on the news. Believe it or not, despite the jokes that people like to make about Garland and Rowlett, the area they are talking about is has some of the most highly priced homes in the metroplex. There are whole neighborhoods of million dollar homes in Garland and Rowlett right in that area. The land is simply beautiful as well. Very hilly with lots of trees and lots of great sailing. Very suburban, but would be a more attractive site than Las Colinas. Aesthectically I mean.
pretty
Last edited by rantanamo; 07 November 2003 at 11:01 AM.
Oh yeah, reasons why it would work in Rowlett/Garland/Rockwall
- GBT is currently being expanded from HWY 78 in north Garland to I-30 in south Garland. Should be finished by 2007 they say. Lots of mileage through Rowlett and Garland. If the development goes similarly in Rowlett as it has in Garland so far, then this will be very lucrative for Rowlett. Tons of restaurants and bars could easily go up. So combined with I-30 and the future loop 9, access wouldn't be so bad.
- DART LRT is going to Rowlett. They are a DART member, and there are two Park N Rides very close to the site. Another could easily be built. And as I said, DART owns the rail ROW along I-30 in Garland and Rowlett.
- Land is there. As I've been saying, it's not looking good for Las Colinas. New development is swallowing the land. The Cedars site has to be cleaned up. The land in the Garland/Rowlett site is available. It's cheap. It's surrounded by million dollar homes. And it's simply beautiful.
- They are talking about their own financing plan. This may end up most important to getting county voters since the role of the county may be reduced.
- It's football. I maintain, that fans will go where the stadium is built. Even if it's in east Texas.
I still maintain that this thing needs to be downtown. Especially for the surrounding components to work out. But a stadium itself would be fine anywhere. Imagine if a stadium would be a catalyst to lake front high rise condos.
The GBT @ IH-30 location is the Rowlett location rantanamo. It won't happen though. But, I agree with you Psukhu, this will only help the downtown location since it shows fan base spread across the metroplex...hopefully the centrality of the downtown location will now become the top factor. However, if it did come down to being either the Rowlett location or the Las Colinas location, I would definitely prefer the Las Colinas location...at least it would be in an urban suburb (is that an oxymoron??).
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