Downtown Dallas Parks

[tamtagon]

...The soil is devoid of nutrients now and has been suffering for a long time. Since it's all sitting in a giant container (like Klyde Warren Park) the dirt will have to be replaced before new landscaping can go in.

Sounds like the park could use a bunch of compost bins. I wonder if the Farmers Market could be a source of 'raw material'. Lots of lessons are being presented by this park.

[dfwcre8tive]

Received this notice earlier in the week.

You're invited THIS Thursday, December 6 from 5 - 7 PM to a Neighbor's Council Meeting at Thanks-Giving Square. We are beginning to form a group of nearby downtown residents who can help provide input, assistance and community building as we seek to bring people together around the unifying aspects of thanksgiving and gratitude. Guests are welcome and we ask that your RSVP by reply email for everyone who may be coming with you. Please feel free to forward or share this email with others in our neighborhood. The business meeting portion will take place from 5:30 - 6:30 PM with time for us to get acquainted on both sides of that timeframe.

[lakewoodhobo]

The updated Parks Master Plan comes out on Thursday. Looking forward to seeing what they've identified in the West End and the Farmers Market. Also, now that 211 N Ervay is getting redeveloped, I wonder if they'll drop the proposed plaza on that site. As for Pacific Plaza, I assume they'll just show a graphic with a smaller park next to a parking garage.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...w_vis.php#more

I really wish the design for Carpenter included a pedestrian connection to Deep Ellum Station (via Swiss Ave) under the freeway.

[dfwcre8tive]

Here's the new plan:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/124353370/...terplan-update

The West End park is a great idea; Harwood Park is a terrible idea, in my opinion. The overall plan doesn't seem very creative.

[AeroD]

Here's the new plan:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/124353370/...terplan-update

The West End park is a great idea; Harwood Park is a terrible idea, in my opinion. The overall plan doesn't seem very creative.

I thought slide 34 was interesting in that showed the DART transfer station as a potential mixed-use site.

[we'll see...]

the block where they are putting the harwood park in is pretty abysmal at the moment. there's some nice architecture that I'd hate to see torn down, 309 pearl (the ballet building), the building on the corner of harwood and wood and the building on the corner on harwood and young. There are people currently living and/or working in those buildings. I walk back and forth through that area every day, it's pretty crummy looking (usually teeming with uh, "vagrants") which probably scares away the majority of people from going anywhere south of commerce street. nice green space there or a park or whatever would essentially link up main street garden with the farmers market and undoubtedly be very beneficial to the lone star gas complex as well as the statler. the presbyterians probably love the idea too.

but that whole block, at least to me, is historic. I realize some of those buildings are probably completely run down, economically unviable and and not worth fighting over, but they've all stood in downtown dallas for longer than many of the people in the CBD have been alive. I think that's worth something. I agree, something much more creative could happen here.

[muncien]

Harwood Park is a terrible idea, in my opinion.

Agreed... I always thought Harwood ITSELF would make an excellent liniar park all the way from Arts to Farmer Market District. Primarily as a pedestrian plaza. The block they reference should be used as development along that corridor. MSG is right down the street. We need critical mass to tie the areas together as opposed to more open space there... which can actually server as a divider if there isn't a population there to support it.

[robbieac]

Whatever they do, I hope they put some REAL playgrounds in the new downtown parks instead of the sorry excuses that have gone in the former ones....especially the lame "playground" in Main Street Garden. Everything doesn't always have to be artsy-fartsy. Sometimes some swings and slides are the best way to go.

[dfwcre8tive]

the block where they are putting the harwood park in is pretty abysmal at the moment. there's some nice architecture that I'd hate to see torn down, 309 pearl (the ballet building), the building on the corner of harwood and wood and the building on the corner on harwood and young. There are people currently living and/or working in those buildings. I walk back and forth through that area every day, it's pretty crummy looking (usually teeming with uh, "vagrants") which probably scares away the majority of people from going anywhere south of commerce street. nice green space there or a park or whatever would essentially link up main street garden with the farmers market and undoubtedly be very beneficial to the lone star gas complex as well as the statler. the presbyterians probably love the idea too.

but that whole block, at least to me, is historic. I realize some of those buildings are probably completely run down, economically unviable and and not worth fighting over, but they've all stood in downtown dallas for longer than many of the people in the CBD have been alive. I think that's worth something. I agree, something much more creative could happen here.

Well, those buildings on the Harwood site lie within a historic district, so it would be quite controversial to remove those contributing structures (although, they got away with it at Main Street Garden). Harwood needs to retain the framework of buildings on either side. Closing Wood Street (which historically ended at Harwood) is not a bad idea, but there's plenty of empty land behind the existing structures if some type of green space or plaza really is needed. I question the need for a park so close to Main Street Garden, and there will already be a large community garden one block to the west. A better use of money would be to enhance the streetscape (and add a streetcar) connecting the existing parks to this area.

Overall the plan looks like something from 10 years ago, not taking into account newer trends or being creative with the existing neighborhoods.

[dfwcre8tive]

Whatever they do, I hope they put some REAL playgrounds in the new downtown parks instead of the sorry excuses that have gone in the former ones....especially the lame "playground" in Main Street Garden. Everything doesn't always have to be artsy-fartsy. Sometimes some swings and slides are the best way to go.

There's a new public playground at Akard/Patterson with full-size play equipment in it.

[DallasMan]

the block where they are putting the harwood park in is pretty abysmal at the moment. there's some nice architecture that I'd hate to see torn down, 309 pearl (the ballet building), the building on the corner of harwood and wood and the building on the corner on harwood and young. There are people currently living and/or working in those buildings.

Yeah, although one (maybe two) of these buildings are unoccupied, the rest are either offices, retail (Petropolitan), or occurpied for residential use. Also, although they show 309 Pearl (Ballet building) and its neighbor as remaining, they also show them as completely surrounded by park. I would presume those two buildings would rather regret having their parking taken away...

[tamtagon]

Overall the plan looks like something from 10 years ago, not taking into account newer trends or being creative with the existing neighborhoods.

That's an understatement.

[mjblazin]

There's a new public playground at Akard/Patterson with full-size play equipment in it.

That is not a public playground. It belongs to First Baptist Academy and they allow the public to use it. Big difference and probably why it will stay in good condition.

[robbieac]

That is not a public playground. It belongs to First Baptist Academy and they allow the public to use it. Big difference and probably why it will stay in good condition.

Exactly. And the couple of times I was able to take my kid by there ( very early evening) it was locked up. It's not overly accessible.

[dfwcre8tive]

That is not a public playground. It belongs to First Baptist Academy and they allow the public to use it. Big difference and probably why it will stay in good condition.

You're right, but it is on city property and FBA is required to provide public access to it. If the gates are ever locked outside normal park hours it should be reported; they were required to remove some of the signage that went up indicating it was a private park.

[muncien]

You're right, but it is on city property and FBA is required to provide public access to it. If the gates are ever locked outside normal park hours it should be reported; they were required to remove some of the signage that went up indicating it was a private park.

I've taken my son repeatedly to this park with no issues. In talking with one of the FBA teachers who had a class out there at the time, she indicated that the city requested them to set specific hours for the park (I think she said as late as 10pm initially), but they negotiated it to sunrise > sunset. I have yet to see that violated, but if it were, i'd be sure to bring it up. I know the gate is always closed, and it appears off limits, but usually just needs to be unlatched. It's quite a nice playground for sure...

[mdg109]

I'm not up to the latest trends in city parks. What kind of innovative things would you have liked to have seen?

[tamtagon]

The Katy and Santa Fe Trails need to meet in the Central Business District. A linear park for walking, jogging, bike riding and getting across the city with as little interaction with vehicular traffic as possible.

Harwood Park reeks of the resource management that engineered astronomical suburban growth at the expense of urban quality of life. Just like that Blue Turquoise building next to Thanks Giving Square, LaMiller called it the ugliest building in downtown and it should be destroyed for a pocket park. That's the kind of hogwash that's only for the benefit the influential landlord next door who's got city hall contacts, under valued and under used investment that "needs" some municipal muscle.... These old buildings are part of what's interesting, variety just for the sake of variety. That blue building is one of the most interesting buildings downtown, and so are these old buildings in/around Harwood / Cesar Chavez that so many bosses think ought to go.

[muncien]

5643992858_4f17654dd9_z.jpg
Something like this is what we should be looking at along Harwood (although, not as wide). If you were able to connect KWP/Arts/Uptown with Farmers Market along Harwood/Pearl expy with this, it would do wonders for the entire area. Harwood doesn't go through to the north, and Pearl dead ends at Farmers Market. The through traffic impact wouldn't be that significant, and you could cross from one to the other around Jackson/Wood without tearing down buildings. This is what creates a neighborhood... not islands of parks strewn about.

[tamtagon]

^Totally.

The potential of the Farmers Market would manifest as the direct result of a linear park turning into the perishables destination of choice for tens of thousands of downtown area residents.

Just imagine a 10 minute bike ride from Azure to the Farmers Market to get a couple days worth of fruits and veggies. The place would packed!! It's a social event to go get some apples, prefect for Dallas, Ideal for Dallas.

[slfunk]

The city is looking to expand the parks plan downtown: http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/More-...194730121.html

- West End Plaza
- Pacific Plaza
- Harwood Park
- Carpenter plaza

West End Plaza will be a nice fill in with the new Fairmount Residential planned in the West End. We've know about Pacific Plaza for a long, long time now. I don't quite understand Carpenter Plaza - its a result of the Pearl realignment, but broken up by the 75 on-ramp approach. I think the city is trying to create an open gateway under the expressway..., but I would put this one at low priority, IMO. Harwood Park will be a great addition to the Farmer's market area, and with all the recent development going on in the Farmer's Market I would put this one at the top of the list to get going. I'm hoping they plan to keep the buildings at the SW and SE corners. Both those buildings are in good condition and occupied (I think there are some lofts in at least one of them). Looks like they will remove a stretch of Wood Street, which will help clean up. There could also be another row of townhomes or mid-rise residential development along Jackson facing Hardwood Park.

[CDallas]

I actually had a great walk this past Sunday of about 5 miles from Turtle creek over to Klyde Warren and then into downtown through the arts district and crossed back on Routh st. into uptown and back home. One think I noticed as I walked this route is that we are coming together nicely as a cohesive urban center but the the city needs to work of connecting all of these new parks and centers with better sidewalks in between and especially underneath the freeways and major intersections so that you feel welcome to walk from place to place. It was a great walk and saw many great vistas of our city and lots of people out walking.

[ksig121]

I actually had a great walk this past Sunday of about 5 miles from Turtle creek over to Klyde Warren and then into downtown through the arts district and crossed back on Routh st. into uptown and back home. One think I noticed as I walked this route is that we are coming together nicely as a cohesive urban center but the the city needs to work of connecting all of these new parks and centers with better sidewalks in between and especially underneath the freeways and major intersections so that you feel welcome to walk from place to place. It was a great walk and saw many great vistas of our city and lots of people out walking.

I agree. I wish that the city would create something like "pedestrian corridors" where the city would go in, do sidewalk and lighting improvements. They could keep track of the cost of this and when a development comes up for approval, the developer can be charged back a portion of the amount of the cost of doing the improvement. Yes it would be a bit of a giveaway. However, I think that the benefits to the city as a whole by doing this would far outweigh giving one-off incentives to individual developers to build their projects.

[lakewoodhobo]

West End Plaza will be a nice fill in with the new Fairmount Residential planned in the West End. We've know about Pacific Plaza for a long, long time now. I don't quite understand Carpenter Plaza - its a result of the Pearl realignment, but broken up by the 75 on-ramp approach. I think the city is trying to create an open gateway under the expressway..., but I would put this one at low priority, IMO. Harwood Park will be a great addition to the Farmer's market area, and with all the recent development going on in the Farmer's Market I would put this one at the top of the list to get going. I'm hoping they plan to keep the buildings at the SW and SE corners. Both those buildings are in good condition and occupied (I think there are some lofts in at least one of them). Looks like they will remove a stretch of Wood Street, which will help clean up. There could also be another row of townhomes or mid-rise residential development along Jackson facing Hardwood Park.

Good points, but I really do think the plan for Carpenter has a lot of potential. If Crozier Tech gets redeveloped as planned, this will be a great complementary park. Also, a lot of people have complained that there aren't any basketball courts downtown, and this places one or more beneath the freeway. Cleaning up and lighting the underpass (if we have to live with it) will allow people to walk safely from downtown to that part of Deep Ellum.

[Bhops]

Good points, but I really do think the plan for Carpenter has a lot of potential. If Crozier Tech gets redeveloped as planned, this will be a great complementary park. Also, a lot of people have complained that there aren't any basketball courts downtown, and this places one or more beneath the freeway. Cleaning up and lighting the underpass (if we have to live with it) will allow people to walk safely from downtown to that part of Deep Ellum.

agreed 100% on the sports courts, including skate parks. I wish they could add handball/squash courts too, perhaps a couple of tennis courts as well. Skate shop and commissary would be great as well.

[profbarium]

One think I noticed as I walked this route is that we are coming together nicely as a cohesive urban center but the the city needs to work of connecting all of these new parks and centers with better sidewalks in between and especially underneath the freeways and major intersections so that you feel welcome to walk from place to place.

I went for a walk Sunday too. I took my son in his stroller: we went from the West End DART station to Main Street Garden, back, and then the Victory DART station. The walk was pleasant, as there were several people downtown, many of which were taking advantage of the "urban spaces." The vibrant street life and fantastic weather made for a very pleasant stroll.

But the walk from the West End to Victory was a little odd. While it was easy enough to navigate (ample sidewalks, limited vehicular traffic), and there were plenty of structures, the stretch was far from inviting. From the empty storefronts in the West End, to the parking lots below the freeway, to the empty storefronts in Victory Park, it seems unlikely anyone who didn't already plan on traversing the distance would be "lured" to do so. Which is a shame, because there's so much potential in that part of the city.

[slfunk]

Good points, but I really do think the plan for Carpenter has a lot of potential. If Crozier Tech gets redeveloped as planned, this will be a great complementary park. Also, a lot of people have complained that there aren't any basketball courts downtown, and this places one or more beneath the freeway. Cleaning up and lighting the underpass (if we have to live with it) will allow people to walk safely from downtown to that part of Deep Ellum.

I do think the idea of the park is good for that area. My concern rests with the configuration of the roads in that area, its a little awkward. Traffic can become a pinch point there with people jumping onto 75 and the freeway is a mental border for pedestrians going into Deep Ellum. I look forward to seeing the pending designs in the near future. All the better if it helps spur development on the parking lots bordered by Elm, Pacific, St. Paul and Ceaser Chavez. It could be just me, but it feels like there is more attn. being directed to downtown as uptown fills up. There's still some missing pieces to the puzzle in downtown, but the parks plan is heading in the right direction.

[sterling]

At least the contingent of people saying "only the homeless will use the parks" seems to have faded into the woodwork. Go parks!

[gshelton91]

/\ amen --- i remember the big discussion about that with Main Street Garden

[we'll see...]

the best deterrent to the homeless occupying the park is to occupy the park yourselves...

I spent all day saturday downtown, went to old red, klyde warren, farmer's market, and everything in between.

I had a good laugh at one point, walking from the omni to boa. main street garden and klyde warren park - and pioneer park too, ha - were all teeming with people from out of town from yet another annoying cheerleader convention. but ALL of the belo parks in that area were amusingly vacant.

[Downtown]

I asked about the park on their Facebook page and got the following:

You'll be glad to know there is a plan underway for major renovation and remodeling of the property. Stay tuned for details. The Chapel is open 10-4 seven days a week. Please walk up the ramp and come in. The Gabrielle Loire stained glass ceiling is as magnificent as ever."

[lakewoodhobo]

Love how Main Street Garden is becoming such a popular place to host events. First it was just Homegrown and City Lights; now we have events like Mudbug Bash (March), Asian Festival (last weekend), Razzle Dazzle (next month). All we need are Easter and Halloween festivals, and we're pretty much covered for the year.

[mjblazin]

Does the city have to resod after those events? I went by last weekend and did not see a lot of green visible. I have to believe the grass takes a hit.

[dfwcre8tive]

Does the city have to resod after those events? I went by last weekend and did not see a lot of green visible. I have to believe the grass takes a hit.

Downtown Dallas Inc is going in and reworking the irrigation of the lawn at Main Street Garden right now (which never functioned properly). The first section involved removing the turf and leveling the ground. Up until now they have replaced sod as needed (in some of the poor draining areas) but the events haven't required regular replacement of the grass.