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Thread: DFW Population: By the Numbers

  1. #301
    High-Rise Member eirin's Avatar
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    If you go to the Wikipedia page on Dallas, someone (probably from San Diego, kidding) downgraded our population count and cited a page from a San Diego news related website for the change. Despite this, there is a more believable count down the page in the trend of population. Seeing as the count has increased every time it has been taken, I find it hard to believe that it would go from 1.3 million to 1.26 million.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eirin
    If you go to the Wikipedia page on Dallas, someone (probably from San Diego, kidding) downgraded our population count and cited a page from a San Diego news related website for the change. Despite this, there is a more believable count down the page in the trend of population. Seeing as the count has increased every time it has been taken, I find it hard to believe that it would go from 1.3 million to 1.26 million.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...revival/58656/
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  3. #303
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Dallas city population will increase more than 100,000 by 2020. Hum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    Dallas city population will increase more than 100,000 by 2020. Hum.
    (1) Cool!
    (2) What's your source?
    (3) What's the ratio of births/out-of-market migration/in-market movement?

  5. #305
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    That is a guess used by many people that comes from 1,000,000 increasing in DFW, lots of high powered studies on that one, and Dallas City getting 10 per cent, essentially current share. 2 years into the decade and we are not yet seeing it in city and are seeing it in the metroplex.

  6. #306
    Sea™ CTroyMathis's Avatar
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    Here's the 2011 estimates from the USCB since we're on the topic. CSA down to County.

    Code:
    Population estimates (July 1, 2011)	2010		2011
    
    CSA (MSA + nearby Micropolitan Areas)
    Dallas-Fort Worth, TX                   6,760,635	6,887,383
    
    MSA
    Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX		6,400,511	6,526,548
    
    Metropolitan Divisions of MSA
    Dallas-Plano-Irving, TX	                4,255,890	4,345,790
    Fort Worth-Arlington, TX	        2,144,621	2,180,758
    
    Counties
    Dallas County, TX	                2,375,207	2,416,014
    Tarrant County, TX	                1,816,850	1,849,815
    Collin County, TX	                  788,511	  812,226
    Denton County, TX	                  667,138	  686,406
    Last edited by CTroyMathis; 14 April 2012 at 04:25 PM.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    That is a guess used by many people that comes from 1,000,000 increasing in DFW, lots of high powered studies on that one, and Dallas City getting 10 per cent, essentially current share. 2 years into the decade and we are not yet seeing it in city and are seeing it in the metroplex.
    How is Dallas's current share "essentially" 10 per cent?
    DFW Metropolitan area population (2010): 6.37 Million.
    Dallas city population (2010): 1.2 Million

    Dallas's current share: 18.8 percent.

    Also, the DFW metropolitan area is expected to grow by well more than just 1 Million people from 2010 to 2020. Look at the census estimates for the first year of the decade (posted above by CTroyMathis). Those numbers will lead to a total growth by 2020 of easily 1.25 Million. IF Dallas were to enjoy its current share, that would lead to growth of Dallas's city population of
    over 200,000.

    Now for the reality check. As you suggested in your last sentence, there is really no reason to expect the city of Dallas to have 10% of the metropolitan area's population growth, let alone 18.8 percent. For that matter, there is no reason to expect the city of Dallas to have 8% of the metro growth (the share necessary to roughly attain a 100,000 growth by 2020. Keep in mind, Dallas' city population grew by only 9236 from 2000 to 2010, less than 1% of the total metro growth.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    Dallas city population will increase more than 100,000 by 2020. Hum.
    ^^^^^^^
    According to the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) March 2012 population estimates for the DFW area, the City of Dallas is actually doing quite well for itself population-wise in the new decade. Here is the summary from their March 2012 report:

    City of Dallas
    April 1, 2010 census = 1,197,816
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 1,205,490
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 1,207,420

    Population growth in City of Dallas since last census = 9,604



    City of Ft. Worth
    April 1, 2010 census = 741,206
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 748,450
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 757,810

    Population growth in City of Ft. Worth since last census = 16,604



    City of Arlington
    April 1, 2010 census = 365,438
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 365,530
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 365,860

    Population growth in Arlington since last census = 422



    For the 12 County DFW MPA:
    April 1, 2000 census = 5,197,317
    April 1, 2010 census = 6,417,724
    January 1, 2011 NCTCOG estimate = 6,461,120
    January 1, 2012 NCTCOG estimate = 6,515,710

    DFW MPA population growth since 2010 census = 97,986


    With these latest NCTCOG population estimates as of January 1, 2012, mjblazin's statement that the City of Dallas captures about 10% of the regions growth is basically right on the money!

    The real laggard in population growth in the new decade appears to be Arlington.

    In total contrast, Dallas has started the new decade with a blast considering it has grown from April 1, 2010 to January 1, 2012 by several hundred more people than it had grown the entire previous decade!

    And with all of the significant residential projects that have been started and that are in the pipeline to be started within the City Limits of Dallas, the strong population growth should continue for Dallas. That is why announcements like Billingsley's residential project at North Lake with up to 10,000 residential units (all within the City Limits of Dallas) are incredible for the City as that project could add up to 15,000-20,000 people to the City's population in this decade alone. And the multi-family developments occurring in Downtown Dallas and the Central Dallas corridor in general are significant to say the least.

    Full report here: http://www.nctcog.org/ris/demographi...pEstimates.pdf

    Note 1: you have to be careful how you initially read the report because it is focusing on the changes only from 2011 to 2012. You have to go down to the more detailed reports under "2012 Population Estimates By County, City" to see the actual numbers by county and city to include actual census 2010 data along with the estimates as of Jan. 1 for 2011 and 2012.

    Note 2: the NCTCOG uses a definition of "MPA" instead of "MSA". What the exact difference is I have not researched because the DFW MSA's actual 2010 census population was 6,371,773 versus the number they show. Their MPA I believe is made up of the same 12 counties as is the MSA.
    Last edited by Dallas Soars; 14 April 2012 at 10:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Soars View Post
    ^^^^^^^
    According to the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) March 2012 population estimates for the DFW area, the City of Dallas is actually doing quite well for itself population-wise in the new decade. Here is the summary from their March 2012 report:

    City of Dallas
    April 1, 2010 census = 1,197,816
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 1,205,490
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 1,207,420

    Population growth in City of Dallas since last census = 9,604



    City of Ft. Worth
    April 1, 2010 census = 741,206
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 748,450
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 757,810

    Population growth in City of Ft. Worth since last census = 16,604



    City of Arlington
    April 1, 2010 census = 365,438
    January 1, 2011 revised estimate = 365,530
    January 1, 2012 estimate = 365,860

    Population growth in Arlington since last census = 422



    For the 12 County DFW MPA:
    April 1, 2000 census = 5,197,317
    April 1, 2010 census = 6,417,724
    January 1, 2011 NCTCOG estimate = 6,461,120
    January 1, 2012 NCTCOG estimate = 6,515,710

    DFW MPA population growth since 2010 census = 97,986


    With these latest NCTCOG population estimates as of January 1, 2012, mjblazin's statement that the City of Dallas captures about 10% of the regions growth is basically right on the money!

    The real laggard in population growth in the new decade appears to be Arlington.

    In total contrast, Dallas has started the new decade with a blast considering it has grown from April 1, 2010 to January 1, 2012 by several hundred more people than it had grown the entire previous decade!

    And with all of the significant residential projects that have been started and that are in the pipeline to be started within the City Limits of Dallas, the strong population growth should continue for Dallas. That is why announcements like Billingsley's residential project at North Lake with up to 10,000 residential units (all within the City Limits of Dallas) are incredible for the City as that project could add up to 15,000-20,000 people to the City's population in this decade alone. And the multi-family developments occurring in Downtown Dallas and the Central Dallas corridor in general are significant to say the least.

    Full report here: http://www.nctcog.org/ris/demographi...pEstimates.pdf

    Note 1: you have to be careful how you initially read the report because it is focusing on the changes only from 2011 to 2012. You have to go down to the more detailed reports under "2012 Population Estimates By County, City" to see the actual numbers by county and city to include actual census 2010 data along with the estimates as of Jan. 1 for 2011 and 2012.

    Note 2: the NCTCOG uses a definition of "MPA" instead of "MSA". What the exact difference is I have not researched because the DFW MSA's actual 2010 census population was 6,371,773 versus the number they show. Their MPA I believe is made up of the same 12 counties as is the MSA.
    Interesting. Thanks for posting.

    A few thoughts:

    The NCTCOG estimates use a different methodology than than either the census estimates or the Census. They are interesting, but don't generally have much reliabilty, at least in the past. It will be interesting to see the Census city estimates for 2011 when they are released in May.

    NCTCOG's estimate for metropolitan population is almost certainly too low. Total metro population of only 97,986 for the 21 months from April 1, 2010 to Jan. 1 2012??? That would be the slowest metro growth in many many years! The recently released Census estimates show total metro growth of 155,000 + in just the 15 months from April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011! I realize we are talking about slightly different sets of counties. But it is virtually impossible that the addition of Hood County and the deletion of Delta County would make that much difference.

    So the idea of Dallas having 10% of the metro's growth is still suspect, to say the least. Also, note that the study focuses on the 2011-2012 growth. In that period, Dallas County only has 10% of the region's growth. Dallas (city) is shown to have grown by 2,000 during that year, 35% of Dallas County's growth, so 3.5% of the metro's growth. (There is something odd here. According to these numbers, Dallas had a growth spurt of 7,670 in the 9 months from April 1, 2010 to Jan 1, 2011 and then only grew by 1,930 during the 12 months of 2011???) One wonders why NCTCOG wastes the effort and taxpayer money coming up with these numbers.

    The "MPA" includes Hood County, which is not part of the MSA and the MPA does not include Delta County, which is in the MSA.
    Last edited by Tucy; 15 April 2012 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #310
    The way it go Rangers100's Avatar
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    Population growth means little. It's density that makes cities cool, creative, vibrant.

    The region would be far better with a couple million people living in tight density than it is with this 6+ million sprawled out mess that is much of the area.
    "Some cities make you lose your head / In this suburb stretched out thin and dead"

  11. #311
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    Dallas won't grow at a decent rate again until the mass teardowns are replaced or stop. I don't think we are anywhere near that point.

  12. #312
    The way it go Rangers100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo
    Dallas won't grow at a decent rate again until the mass teardowns are replaced or stop. I don't think we are anywhere near that point.
    Or until it quits building/widening highways to suck from the city and fuel the sprawl.

    A 2006 Brown University study found that each highway running through city centers reduces city populations by 18%. The reasons for this are obvious.

    Want to grow Dallas population again? Cut the sprawl cords:

    http://www.facebook.com/SaveDowntownDallas
    "Some cities make you lose your head / In this suburb stretched out thin and dead"

  13. #313
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    that's not going to cure anything. Hasn't stopped Houston or SA from growing. Plenty of other things to solve before people want Dallas. Just saying, you're going to lose population when you tear down massive population areas and replace them with nothing at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
    that's not going to cure anything. Hasn't stopped Houston or SA from growing. Plenty of other things to solve before people want Dallas. Just saying, you're going to lose population when you tear down massive population areas and replace them with nothing at all.
    I agree. When you tear down single family homes and apartments that cater to families and replace them with fancy apartments that cater to single trendoids you are going to continue to lose population. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, but I cannot see Dallas gaining much population due to we are boxed in by suburbs and unless we start building up we are not going to grow.

  15. #315
    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbarn
    I cannot see Dallas gaining much population due to we are boxed in by suburbs and unless we start building up we are not going to grow.
    Yes but Dallas needs more State-Thomases, not more Museum Towers. Population-wise we are nowhere near needing to build up because I see quite a few moonscapes from downtown Dallas to LBJ.

  16. #316
    The way it go Rangers100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewoodhobo

    Yes but Dallas needs more State-Thomases, not more Museum Towers. Population-wise we are nowhere near needing to build up because I see quite a few moonscapes from downtown Dallas to LBJ.
    Curses upon you for speaking ill of the Museum Tower, our holy shrine of eye candy for morning-evening commutes into and back out of the city.
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  17. #317
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post
    Hasn't stopped Houston or SA from growing.
    That's in large part due to the fact there is nothing to stop them from expanding their borders. San Antonio's growth has been on its edges not core, where as in Dallas, the growth has been in the core not edges.
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  18. #318
    Supertall Skyscraper Member NThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbarn View Post
    I agree. When you tear down single family homes and apartments that cater to families and replace them with fancy apartments that cater to single trendoids you are going to continue to lose population. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, but I cannot see Dallas gaining much population due to we are boxed in by suburbs and unless we start building up we are not going to grow.
    Tearing down single family homes to build up only leaves you with apartments with the present economy. When the demand for home ownership rises, building owners will begin the conversion from rental to condo. Bringing in more families will always be dependent on the school district, and until DISD can right the ship, the 'burbs will continue to monopolize that demographic.

  19. #319
    The way it go Rangers100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbarn

    I agree. When you tear down single family homes and apartments that cater to families and replace them with fancy apartments that cater to single trendoids you are going to continue to lose population. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, but I cannot see Dallas gaining much population due to we are boxed in by suburbs and unless we start building up we are not going to grow.
    The best report I've seen on the topic shows each urban highway running through a city core causes a city population loss of 18% (on average).

    Dallas not only has several such highways, it is talking about building another (the Trinity tollroad).

    Want to grow the population of Dallas? This would be a great start:

    http://www.facebook.com/SaveDowntownDallas

    Single family homes, apartments, whatever. None of it matters if you have giant needles stuck right into the heart of the core, sucking everything out to the sprawl. Lots of other cities have realized this and are tearing out urban highways. Dallas is going in the other direction.
    Last edited by Rangers100; 22 April 2012 at 08:04 PM.
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  20. #320
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    Dallas area leads nation in population growth, adding one person every 4 minutes
    The Business Journals by G. Scott Thomas
    Monday, May 28, 2012


    The Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area adds another person every four minutes and 10 seconds, making it the fastest-growing metropolitan area in America.

    Dallas-Fort Worth gained 126,037 residents between July 1, 2010, and the same date last year, according to newly released population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau .

    On Numbers used those estimates to generate daily growth rates for the nation's 366 metros. Dallas-Fort Worth leads the nation with an increase of 345.3 persons per day, or one person every four minutes and 10 seconds.

    Houston ranks second with a daily population gain of 301.6 persons. Rounding out the top five are Los Angeles (up 275.2 persons per day), New York City (up 263.7) and Washington (up 259.7).

    Dallas and Houston have been economic powerhouses in recent years. Both cities led the nation in 2011 in private-sector job growth. Dallas, in particular, has seen a rebound in jobs in the financial services industry.

    Fifteen metropolitan areas added at least 100 persons per day between mid-2010 and mid-2011. Nearly 82 percent of all metros -- 299 of 366 -- registered population increases of any size.

    The Cleveland area was the biggest loser, suffering a daily decline of 19.9 persons. Next were two Michigan markets: Detroit (down 13.4 persons per day) and Flint (down 8.3 persons).

    The following database contains the Census Bureau's latest population estimates for all 366 metro areas, along with daily growth rates calculated by On Numbers. Use the tab to isolate a single state, or simply hit the Search button to see everything at once.

    On Numbers also issues its own up-to-date population estimates several times a year. The most recent figures for states and metropolitan areas were issued at the beginning of April.



    From the Houston Business Journal article
    Other Texas markets are also growing at a fast clip. The Austin area ranks No. 9, with a total of 55,272 residents added over the year, or 151.4 people per day. San Antonio ranks No. 14, with 41,036 additional residents over the year, or 112.4 people per day.

  21. #321
    Super Moderator Tnekster's Avatar
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    Saw a presentation on DFW population trends today that had some interesting information. First, the region is almost to 6.9 million, not really a surprise there but the growth is surging again and with some of the recent developments will likely surge higher this year again although we are far from our population increase peak that occured in about 2002-2003. Second, the city with the fastest population growth (sheer numbers) is Dallas with a 12 month gain of over 10,000 citizens. Second was Frisco at about 7,300 with Fort Worth down at about 6,400. You can credit the Dallas number to the growth in multi-family housing and not single family as the city is tearing down single family at about the same rate it builds a new one. Multi-family is pushing the numbers up and most of that is downtown/uptown area with a trail that goes up the DART line towards Las Colinas. Anyway, good news for the central city, it's working.

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    Something I have always wondered but have not found any reports about. Do cheaper apts have higher averages of residents per unit than luxury apt? If you clear out a cheaper building full of families, and replace it with a luxury building full of single or couples with no kids, how much population growth is really happening?

    The second part is how do you count people. How many apt in downtown or uptown are second homes, thus not counted on official census reports?

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownguy25 View Post
    Something I have always wondered but have not found any reports about. Do cheaper apts have higher averages of residents per unit than luxury apt? If you clear out a cheaper building full of families, and replace it with a luxury building full of single or couples with no kids, how much population growth is really happening?
    That's an interesting question, but it cuts both ways. That is, does an apartment with more transient (or student) residents have a lot of residents--only they're not on the lease or the census records?

  24. #324
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tnekster View Post
    ...You can credit the Dallas number to the growth in multi-family housing and not single family as the city is tearing down single family at about the same rate it builds a new one. Multi-family is pushing the numbers up and most of that is downtown/uptown area with a trail that goes up the DART line towards Las Colinas. Anyway, good news for the central city, it's working.
    I wonder if there's an entity quantifying the apartment unit recycling going on in Dallas. More than doubling multi-family housing population per square mile by replacing the two story garden apartment complexes with much larger contemporary variations (the Dallas Donut) is a recession delayed and very welcomed occurrence. We've only scratched the surface, though, and whether occupant per dwelling is 1.2 or 1.7 or 2.4, the city population will get a significant boost from this conversion for 20+ years, probably l;onger than that.

    The big thing on the horizon, though, and it's tricky, is South Dallas County. Considering all the warehouses that have been built recently, and the inevitability of so much more, the massive suburban neighborhoods cannot be far behind. Ellis County is the next Collin County? --probably not the same, but the houses will be built.
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  25. #325
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    ^That population converstion will likely be most significant in West Dallas over the next decade as large-very large multifamily blocks get built and replace a lot of single family or warehouse/light industrial/office space currently occupying that space. There is room for another uptown there, maybe more.

  26. #326
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    Maybe it was this presentation Tnekster. Some great information there and in effect it estimates Dallas population growth from 2013-2014 of 10,560. Other information I found interesting is that the regional population center is near the intersection of Rochelle & Story Rd in Irving. The geographic center is in Dalworthington Gardens.

    http://www.nctcog.org/ris/demographi...tation2014.pdf

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by mannypr View Post
    Maybe it was this presentation Tnekster. Some great information there and in effect it estimates Dallas population growth from 2013-2014 of 10,560. Other information I found interesting is that the regional population center is near the intersection of Rochelle & Story Rd in Irving. The geographic center is in Dalworthington Gardens.

    http://www.nctcog.org/ris/demographi...tation2014.pdf
    Parkland has 10,000 births a year. Not all are Dallas residents but the vast majority are. Would be interesting to see the breakdown in demographics regarding age, those under 18. It will be readily apparent that the City of Dallas is a sancturary city for the very young and very old, with not many wage earners and robust taxpayers. Dallas is pretty screwed.

    It would be fascinating to compare IRS 1040s across zip codes, bank account activity and where money goes in the local economy. There is a vast black market out there for goods and services that directly circumvents the taxing authorities in Dallas.

  28. #328
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperITL View Post
    Parkland has 10,000 births a year. Not all are Dallas residents but the vast majority are. Would be interesting to see the breakdown in demographics regarding age, those under 18. It will be readily apparent that the City of Dallas is a sancturary city for the very young and very old, with not many wage earners and robust taxpayers. Dallas is pretty screwed.
    You ask for the data, but you've already reached your conclusion. Interesting.

  29. #329
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    WSJ has article today that curve has started to shift back to suburban and exurban growth with most urban areas slowing in last 2 years. I do not know about the whole anchor babies thing, but one trend is clear: urban areas grow organically by births or maybe adoption while suburban and exurban areas grow by migration. Very little migration across the board occurs to urban areas. It might be high in particular groups, but not in general.

    The cities are just too expensive for people with flat wages, at least in areas where migrating groups want to live.

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperITL View Post
    Parkland has 10,000 births a year. Not all are Dallas residents but the vast majority are. Would be interesting to see the breakdown in demographics regarding age, those under 18. It will be readily apparent that the City of Dallas is a sancturary city for the very young and very old, with not many wage earners and robust taxpayers. Dallas is pretty screwed.

    It would be fascinating to compare IRS 1040s across zip codes, bank account activity and where money goes in the local economy. There is a vast black market out there for goods and services that directly circumvents the taxing authorities in Dallas.
    Really? Come on, Casper.

    On that basis, we could argue most B2C e-commerce is black market since may entities do not collect a sales tax.
    Tighten the female dog!

  31. #331
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    ^ Well, Sales Tax in Dallas is not keeping up with population growth and more troubling, not keeping up with inflation:
    http://www.dallascityhall.com/Budget...appendices.pdf

    Are people going to the suburbs to buy things? No.

    Earlier in the thread the polulation growth was noted. One can massage the numbers anyway you want but people in Dallas who account for population growth, inside the city limits are either broke, too young to buy stuff or engage in lots of black market economic activity for goods. Garage sales, flea markets etc.

    This is all a dramatic and permanent cultural shift that will be impossible to reverse.

  32. #332
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperITL View Post
    This is all a dramatic and permanent cultural shift that will be impossible to reverse.
    It's a cultural shift that could reverse within a generation.
    The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.

  33. #333
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    WSJ stated clearly no one knows yet if the slight reversal is a move back to norm or simply noise around curve's inflection point. The same things that keep people from migrating to city also limit permanent moves to suburbs: not making enough money and taking longer to accrue wealth. It is not the 70's again. The suburbs are cheaper and have better schools. It is like that 52 % Edge for House in Blackjack. Without some systemic change other than attitude or preference, that extra 2 per cent over many hands (residents) makes its force felt. Once this recession finally lifts, we will see the drivers that remain.

  34. #334
    Skyscraper Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperITL View Post
    ^ Well, Sales Tax in Dallas is not keeping up with population growth and more troubling, not keeping up with inflation:
    http://www.dallascityhall.com/Budget...appendices.pdf

    Are people going to the suburbs to buy things? No.

    Earlier in the thread the polulation growth was noted. One can massage the numbers anyway you want but people in Dallas who account for population growth, inside the city limits are either broke, too young to buy stuff or engage in lots of black market economic activity for goods. Garage sales, flea markets etc.

    This is all a dramatic and permanent cultural shift that will be impossible to reverse.
    You left out the 800 pound gorilla -- the Internet.

  35. #335
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    Once this recession finally lifts, we will see the drivers that remain.
    lol recession. We haven't been in recession in YEARS. This economy you see right now is normal. Anything more than this is a bubble inflating.

  36. #336
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
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    GNP recession is different than a job recession. The job recession drives migrations. To my knowledge, we are not quite there on number of jobs compared to 2008.

  37. #337
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter View Post

    You left out the 800 pound gorilla -- the Internet.
    Despite all the hype, and though exaggerated in certain segments, overall Internet does less than 10 % of retail. The Internet though is responsible for much more than 10 per cent of the growth in retail, a distinction that arouses Wall Street.

  38. #338
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    ^How does the increasing number of people with decreasing disposable income figure into retail sales? The Internet as a viable option for retail purchases has been around less than a generation, probably less than a decade. To go from zero to near 10% in ten years is remarkable. Amazon was founded in 1994, and is bigger than almost all retail operators. We may not reach an identifiable equilibrium until most of our retired population is at least familiar with online purchasing.
    The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.

  39. #339
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
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    Eventually we'll get our local share of Internet driven sales tax and it won't matter, at least on taxes. It won't be great for people working in the stores.

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