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Thread: Midland-Odessa thread

  1. #51
    Urban but not hip Jack Flack's Avatar
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    Those commercials were horribly good. The one with the ZZ Top song involved some bum thinking he needs to clean up so he heads to Great Expectations. Cut to scenes of the friendly, knowledgeable staff and my dad talking about the latest line of Redkin products. The guy walks out of the mall all spiffed up with two lovely ladies on his arm. All the while Sharped Dress Man is playing.

    The other involved a female friend of the family screaming and running out the mall with a ninja close behind yelling, "NEXT". Cut to the friendly staff, my dad, blah blah blah and I think the ninja pops up again at the end.

    Truly horrible, yet hilarious. I think we still have them on tape somewhere.

  2. #52
    Eulogize the FW Streetcar Haretip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flack
    ^ Yep, that's the song he used for one of his commercials. I am sure he asked Mr. Top for the right to use it.

    Small town commercials leave a lot to be desired in production value.
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  3. #53
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    Looks like the "big-box" retailers may be coming to Odessa soon.

    http://www.oaoa.com/news/nw041406a.htm

  4. #54
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    Odessa does have a few big box retailers, like a couple of Wal-mats a Sam's and the mall, but it is still nothing like what's on Loop 250. It seems that 191 will become that for them.

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    Odessa Midland

    I remember one of those comercial, having grown up in Odessa ( yes I admit it) in the 80s. Had some wild times hanging around ,and cruising Clement street. Midland has a nice skyline for a city of maybe 100,000. Odessa knocking down the lincon tower 10st building this summer. making room for the hospital growth.

  6. #56
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    Does it seem a little backwards to anyone else that Midland is getting a giant truckstop and Odessa is getting some kind of upscale retail (the article mentions Macy's but says its not Macy's but a similar store)?

    Also, its not Lincoln Tower that is being torn down is it? I thought it was that old petroleum club building. Anyway that building needs to be torn down, it has that ugly restaurant jutting out from the top that looks just plain ridiculous.

  7. #57
    Formerly Trolleygirl2 CityLove's Avatar
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    I visited Midland this weekend. I was definitely impressed with the skyline for a city its size. Some good looking buildings downtown. Overall not a bad place for a small city in West Texas.
    I tell everyone...I smile just because...I've got a city love...

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidus
    Does it seem a little backwards to anyone else that Midland is getting a giant truckstop and Odessa is getting some kind of upscale retail (the article mentions Macy's but says its not Macy's but a similar store)?
    Hadn't thought about it, but you are right. There is something a little off about that.

    TG2, what else did you do while there? There's the petroleum museum and the Odessa crater and other things. Did you get to do any of that?

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    petroleum club building

    Yes you are right it is the petroleum club building being knock down, my misspelling of Lincoln.

  10. #60
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    That building looks very, very similar to 211 Ervay.

  11. #61
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    There is always the George W. Bush family home. I'm not sure if renovations are complete, but if not, they should be close:

    http://www.bushchildhoodhome.org/the_project.html

  12. #62
    Formerly Trolleygirl2 CityLove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    TG2, what else did you do while there? There's the petroleum museum and the Odessa crater and other things. Did you get to do any of that?
    Unfortunately, I was too busy with the task that brought me into town to do much touristy stuff. I did, however, get a nice tour of downtown by a couple of locals, and also got to check out the Commemorative Air Field...they were having some sort of fundraiser called an "open cockpit", and there were some very very cool WW2 era planes which you could actually go inside. I also got to see a demonstration by the Midland PD's K9 Unit - another very entertaining and informative part of the event. I found it a very cool way to check out the local flavor w/o getting to visit any of the touristy landmarks.
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  13. #63
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    Anybody got some downtown shots of either city? I seem to remember seeing a book somewhere that showed a surprising dense shot of downtown Midland, or Odessa, I think. Any pictures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112
    Anybody got some downtown shots of either city? I seem to remember seeing a book somewhere that showed a surprising dense shot of downtown Midland, or Odessa, I think. Any pictures?
    Here is a pic of Lincoln Tower and the building being torn down. Licoln Tower is the one with the white sign at the top, The petroleum club is behind it with the fire escape and the top floor jutting out.



    Here is one of downtown midland that I shopped.



    For lots of pictures of Midland and Odessa:

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=231564

    Here is a thread where we where proposing new ideas for Midland, feel free to join in the photo-shopping fun!

    http://www.myopenforum.com/forum/vie...6970190c1962b9
    Last edited by Lucidus; 18 April 2006 at 08:07 PM.

  15. #65
    Eulogize the FW Streetcar Haretip's Avatar
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    Maybe Midland is on to something.

    Census: Americans Are Fleeing Big Cities

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans are leaving the nation's big cities in search of cheaper homes and open spaces farther out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Haretip
    ...Most of the smart ones hit the bricks the day after graduation ceremonies. Well, it sounds like they are calling you back: Midland wants Fouta Back



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  16. #66
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    I just have to wonder how the Hilton in downtown Midland stays open. I've stayed there once before and I'll never stay there again. Not only did I feel like I was the only person in the hotel (and I probably was), the room was crappy and there's NOTHING to do or eat in downtown Midland after 5:00.
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  17. #67
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    Yeah, as bad as DTD is in terms of lifelessness, Midland has a long way to go. BTW, Luigi's is open after 5p.

  18. #68
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    Is The Ground Floor still open?

  19. #69
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    Not sure what The Ground Floor is. My sister worked at Luigi's. That's how I know.

  20. #70
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    Luigi's is good. Another Midland favorite of mine is Dos Compadres over by the college.

    The Ground Floor is a strange little coffee shop on Wall in downtown.

  21. #71
    Eulogize the FW Streetcar Haretip's Avatar
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    Odessa Office Market

    The office market in Odessa remains steady with a slight trend toward revamping and remodeling existing multi-tenant structures, according to Janice Havens, president of Odessa, Texas-based The Havens Group. “This is evidenced by the cosmetic and mechanical remodel of the four-story, 78,000-square-foot State National Bank Building on East Eighth Street and the project that is currently underway to revamp the two-building, 30,000-square-foot North Park Plaza on East 37th Street,” Havens says.

    New office development also continues in the downtown medical district, which is bordered by Second and Eighth streets and Golder and Pittsburgh avenues. The district contains three area hospitals, Texas Tech Health Sciences Center, and a variety of medical offices and clinics. “There also is a push toward the northeastern part of town for smaller office users who need high traffic and visibility,” Havens says.

    The construction of Southwick Plaza, an 11,000-square-foot medical office building on East Second Street, has expanded the medical district to Business Interstate 20. The building will soon be 75 percent occupied. The lots north of this property are currently under contract and a second phase of this project will begin shortly. “This project has a distinctive urban/old-town style that is new to Odessa, and, besides being eye-catching, has helped to improve the surrounding light industrial neighborhood,” Havens says.

    Also in the medical district, Medical Center Hospital has constructed the 80,000-square-foot Dr. Wheatley Stewart Medical Pavilion just north of its campus, half of which is devoted to medical office lease space. Soon after construction of the Pavilion was completed, the hospital vacated the 84,000-square-foot Professional Tower as the repair and maintenance costs had become too high. The 10-story Professional Tower is slated for demolition in the near future. The hospital also has purchased the property south of its campus from All-American Chevrolet and has plans for future development.

    “Several physicians have chosen to build stand-alone office buildings in the 2,000- to 3,000-square-foot range, but this trend seems to be slowing significantly,” Havens says. “Office users also are opting for retail spaces in strip shopping centers instead of the traditional office building.” For example, a 4,200-square-foot remodel of a former nightclub at Lowe's Shopping Center on East Eighth Street has been leased to Joel Sellers State Farm Insurance, minus 1,000 square feet occupied by The Jewelry Store.

    “Also of some importance is the redevelopment of the 3,800-square-foot Noel Building (previously owned by Odessa College and vacant for some time now) into lease space with the anchor tenant of Community National Bank,” Havens says. “The building is downtown on one of Odessa's main thoroughfares, Highway 385.”

    The bulk of office development is occurring in the medical district, which is downtown Odessa. The remaining growth is occurring along the 42nd Street corridor from Grandview Avenue to Loop 338. “New retail developments by Leeco on each end of this corridor have helped spur the desirability of this location,” Havens says.

    Some small growth has been seen in recent history in Permian Plaza, which is near 52nd Street north of Music City Mall, with the addition of a business college and a real estate office. “The west side of town, specifically County Road West, should be due soon for a renaissance, with some minor interest already being shown in this area,” Havens says. “As the residential market continues bringing new life into this area, commercial will follow shortly.”

    The majority of the office space in Odessa has been locally owned, but there is an increase of outside investment and involvement in the market. For example, the State National Bank Building was purchased in 2004 by a Las Cruces, New Mexico-based invest-or/broker, and a California investor has bought one small office building and has one office complex currently under contract. “We are seeing interest from out-of-state investors as well as from other areas of Texas,” Havens says.

    Class A office space in the Odessa area starts at $11.00 per square foot gross, and medical office space begins at $13.75, plus NNN and utilities. “Based on our best estimates, approximately 15 percent of all leaseable office space in the city is vacant,” Havens says.

    In the near future, the area to keep an eye on is the medical district, according to Havens. “The medical district remains hot as older homes are purchased and demolished to make way for medical office space, and the northeast continues to be the destination for office users looking for traffic and visibility,” she says. Some interest has been shown in building a large medical building or buildings near Alliance and Odessa Regional Hospitals as space is becoming limited in newer facilities. Land also is available for development along the newly constructed extensions of 52nd Street and J.B.S. Parkway in the northeast. “We have already experienced a great deal of retail growth in this area,” Havens says.

    As the oil and gas economy is experiencing a boom, Odessa's economy continues to grow. In addition, the city continues to diversify into other forms of energy production and entice businesses such as distribution centers and call centers to locate in the community. “One glance at the headlines of any local newspaper will confirm how well the local economy is doing and how prosperous of a time this is for West Texas,” Havens says.

    — Janice Havens is president of Odessa, Texas-based The Havens Group
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  22. #72
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    MDC industrial property buy from city on today's agenda |
    Bob Campbell
    Staff Writer
    Midland Reporter-Telegram
    04/28/2006
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    Midland Development Corp. directors today will consider buying 127 acres of city-owned land between Interstate 20 and Business 20 west of Midland as a site for future industrial development.


    They also will discuss prospective business tenants for the MDC's speculative Building A in Entrada Business Park northwest of Midland International Airport, which MDC President John James said Thursday have been winnowed down to possible distribution and "aircraft and air industry-related" operations.


    The land purchase would be west of the city limits and east of South County Road 1250, James said. "It's part of our original plan to have property somewhere along I-20, consistent with our philosophy of being ready with the infrastructure needs of industry.


    "The property is big enough to support industry and it will have water, sewer and gas."


    James said the directors had hoped to announce Building A's leasing today, but negotiations are still in progress and a contract has not been signed. "We're working with a few different folks and some prospects are hotter than others," he said.


    "The exciting thing is that we continue to believe Building A was the right thing to do. Midland is an incredible hub providing access to the East and West coasts, and we have one development in particular that is really on the verge.


    "Ideally, it will be announced this spring or summer."


    Completed last fall, the $1.3-million Building A shell is part of MDC's $2.88-million investment in the 25-acre Entrada Business Park just north of the new Permian Basin National Guard Readiness Center.


    Two hundred feet square with 44-foot walls, the structure is designed to be finished according to the tenant's needs.


    In other business, the panel will hear a report that Midland County unemployment kept dropping in March to 3.5 percent, down a tenth of a percent from February, with 66,300 people working and only 2,416 jobless among the 68,716-member workforce. There was a 3.9-percent rate in March 2005, when 63,074 were employed.


    Permian Basin area unemployment in March was 4.3 percent with 181,514 busy among 189,735 people and 8,221 still seeking work.


    Reports also will be made on the MDC's proposed 2006-07 budget, general and international business development activities and the organization's advertising and marketing.

  23. #73
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    Here are some pics I took of the Professional Tower demolition.




  24. #74
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    That is sooo disgusting. What little density that area has is demolished for a surface parking lot.

    Thanks for the pictures.

  25. #75
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    That is sooo disgusting. What little density that area has is demolished for a surface parking lot.
    Why is that disgusting? Why do they need density in Midland/Odessa?

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    That is sooo disgusting. What little density that area has is demolished for a surface parking lot.

    Thanks for the pictures.
    Yeah I gotta admit, I have some mixed feelings about this demolition. Every since I was a kid I thought that Professional Tower was the ugliest building in Odessa. And that is saying alot because Odessa has many very ugly buildings.

    A few years ago I heard that the building may be available for purchase at an extremely low price, so I began to dream of ways to aquire it and fix it up. It turns out however, that there were just too many problems with this building; no one would ever be able to restore it.

    Then I heard that it was going to be deomolished. Its about time, I thought.


    But, actually seeing it come down does make me a little sad. When I took the pictures, there were people just hanging around the parking lot watching. I talked to a few of them and the general consensus was the same. Sad but good. The hospital is always adding newer, better, and more needed buildings to the area.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by VectorWega
    Why is that disgusting? Why do they need density in Midland/Odessa?
    Yeah you're right, they need a parking lot more.

  28. #78
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    Yeah you're right, they need a parking lot more.
    I wasn't the one complaining about them tearing up a parking lot. They can remove all the parking lots they want. I just don't understand the disgust of tearing down a building in a location that doesn't need density.

  29. #79
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    When does an area need density? My philosophy is and will always be for wise land use, and that means less carcentirc thinking. Obviously a hub of the oil industry isn't going to do that, but I find it sad that we build a building that actually uses land better and then tear it down for a surface lot that can have no more that 40 cars, and that is an estimate on the high end.

    Now, if there are structual problems, then that is a different story, but this isn't something to be happy about.

    Also, if there is a plan down the road for this lot, and they are getting it started now, then that is a little better.

    But I think even small towns are better served with dense development.

  30. #80
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    High density development only makes sense if the property values are high enough to justify it. There is just too much undeveloped land in that area to justify urban style development unless it is a municipal policy that has been debated by the people who live there and they have decided that is what they want.

  31. #81
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    So there was density in a building built post automobile, but now it is out of place and should be torn down? That doesn't make sense.

  32. #82
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    But I think even small towns are better served with dense development.

    So people can be confined to a smaller living space? So they can pay more for less? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. People in smaller towns generally value their space.

    In Midland, for instance, you can get anywhere in 5 to 10 minutes. And that is taking into account the fact that you'll probably be traveling about 30 mph (35 mph speed limit). I'm not sure what high density would accomplish.

    I'm sure you also probably feel that cities like Midland should have public transportation too? Many years ago, Midland tried a bus system but it failed miserably. Why? Because Midland was a very wealthy city and everyone had a car. There was no need for one. Now, in poorer cities of similiar size such as Sioux City, IA, public transportation has been a mainstay for many years. However, it's not because of better planning. It's simply based on need.

  33. #83
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    Midland has a bus system now and it's actually a relative success.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by VectorWega
    So people can be confined to a smaller living space? So they can pay more for less? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. People in smaller towns generally value their space.
    Did you ever live in Midland? I am curious because you speak as though you have passed through it. Yes it is small and quick to get around, but that still means we should gobble land because money says so. If that was the case, then a lot of foods today would have health detriments because it is cheaper.

    Also, I'm not talking condos and townhomes all over, but it is curious that there are only one set of townhomes in Midland, and they are basically apartments. DTM is a great area to start with, because there is a concentration of buisness. Add a couple of townhomes nearby and convert one empty building to a condo tower and all of a sudden, the dynamics have changed.

    In Midland, for instance, you can get anywhere in 5 to 10 minutes. And that is taking into account the fact that you'll probably be traveling about 30 mph (35 mph speed limit). I'm not sure what high density would accomplish.
    Well cutting a dependence on foreign oil, plus clean air for an area with little green to recycle the air is a good place to start. Dense and walkable don't have to be big city ideas.

    Also, why does it matter if you can get there in that amount of time? So we should build denser if it takes a long time, not that it is the better way to live?

    I'm sure you also probably feel that cities like Midland should have public transportation too? Many years ago, Midland tried a bus system but it failed miserably. Why? Because Midland was a very wealthy city and everyone had a car. There was no need for one. Now, in poorer cities of similiar size such as Sioux City, IA, public transportation has been a mainstay for many years. However, it's not because of better planning. It's simply based on need.
    As stated already, it is aparent you knowledge is old, as Midland's bus system was put back in play and is working well, if not great. Why? Gas is something that isn't cheap anymore. Your thinking is one reason why we are a nation that has less than 5 percent of the worlds population, but consume 24 percent of the energy supply. Because we (well not me at tleast) think like this.

    Question, what do you have to say now that Midland has a bus system again?

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    Also, I'm not talking condos and townhomes all over, but it is curious that there are only one set of townhomes in Midland, and they are basically apartments. DTM is a great area to start with, because there is a concentration of buisness. Add a couple of townhomes nearby and convert one empty building to a condo tower and all of a sudden, the dynamics have changed.
    This idea has a great deal of merit in most smaller towns, but it would probably tend to be more of a niche market.

    Quote Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster
    Well cutting a dependence on foreign oil, plus clean air for an area with little green to recycle the air is a good place to start. Dense and walkable don't have to be big city ideas.
    Again, good ways of doing things, but it depends entirely upon the people who live there and what they want.

    Arguing against basic economic principles is a difficult proposition. It is expensive to build up. It is cheap to build out. Until a certain point is reached where property values dictate the need to build up to obtain more use out of a specific unit of land, it is hard to encourage planners and builders and developers and the public to do things this way.

    It all comes down to the allocation of scarce resources. All resources are scarce to one degree or another. Property values, travel time, gasoline (or energy, to be more generic) prices, even personal preferences for things like elbow room, all these and more go into when the market demands a building needs to be higher for greater usage/square foot of land.

    If Midland decides, as a matter of their public policy, to encourage lots of townhouses be built, that may or may not be a success. If they aren't then they will simply be torn down and a more market driven use will be found. Perhaps that use will be as a parking lot, perhaps not.

    Land use requirements need to strike a balance between current market necessity and future needs. It is often hard to get this right, as can clearly be seen in example after example. But arbitrary rules imposed from outside will not succeed unless they happen to coincide with the particular market needs of a specific area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdwillis
    This idea has a great deal of merit in most smaller towns, but it would probably tend to be more of a niche market.
    I don't buy that. We've heard it time and again about Texas. "Texans love their yard, Texans will never give up there cars." The current dense booms in Houston and Dallas are showing this to be true. Even Austin, San Antonio and Ft Worth, projects fill in at a rapid pace. The will always be a demand for walkable living. I'm wondering if you have ever lived in Midland, not even going to ask if it was the 20 years that I did. A ten story condo refit would do fine there. A city of Midland's size shouldn't have the skyline it does, because it goes against your example of Niche Markets and land prices.


    Again, good ways of doing things, but it depends entirely upon the people who live there and what they want.
    You are foolish if that is what you believe. We are taught from a young age that the "American Dream" is to own a house with a big yard and a car. It is a "right of passage" to get one when you are 16. Big oil companies, auto makers and home builders have lobbied the governenment for years to get legislation that favors their way. One example is streetcar destruction of the 40's and 50's. Nearly every major and medium city had one. Until auto companies bought waht they could and lobbied governments to have them destroyed. To cities come to mind that didn't San Fransico and Toronto. Both have useable and very walkable cities.

    Arguing against basic economic principles is a difficult proposition. It is expensive to build up. It is cheap to build out. Until a certain point is reached where property values dictate the need to build up to obtain more use out of a specific unit of land, it is hard to encourage planners and builders and developers and the public to do things this way.
    Again, that logic is flawed, because then Midland wouldn't have the skyline it does. Plus dense doesn't mean tall. Walk Oak Lawn once in a while, or East Dallas. Very little heighth there, but very dense and walkable. Midland has a diamond in the rough in this category with its downtown. It could be better if it wasn't a buisness district.

    If Midland decides, as a matter of their public policy, to encourage lots of townhouses be built, that may or may not be a success. If they aren't then they will simply be torn down and a more market driven use will be found. Perhaps that use will be as a parking lot, perhaps not.
    Lower taxes will always recieve a higher demand. If townhome ownership taxes were a thirdless, childless couples would buy there, as they have across the country.

    Land use requirements need to strike a balance between current market necessity and future needs. It is often hard to get this right, as can clearly be seen in example after example. But arbitrary rules imposed from outside will not succeed unless they happen to coincide with the particular market needs of a specific area.
    Agreed, but there will always be a need for this, and in Midland's case, a smaller demand. I would have flocked there in a minute. Just like in DTD, I loved going through there and to be there would be great. Midland's always had the presence of a big ciy in a small town atmosphere.

  37. #87
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    I'll be there today an tomorrow.
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  38. #88
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    Midland has a bus system now and it's actually a relative success.
    Yes. Which is why I was speaking in the past tense. At one time Midland had the highest income per capita in the US. That has obviously changed in the last 10 years. Even so, the bus system is 6 routes with very small buses. It's not even comparable to a mass transit system such as the one in Sioux City.

  39. #89
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    Did you ever live in Midland? I am curious because you speak as though you have passed through it. Yes it is small and quick to get around, but that still means we should gobble land because money says so. If that was the case, then a lot of foods today would have health detriments because it is cheaper.
    I bought a lot of properties in Midland back in 1996 when oil, and land were cheap. I'm very familiar with Midland. Why not gobble up land around Midland? It's a sub-desert. It's very barren land, and it is replaced with people's houses that take care of their grass and trees...certainly better than what used to exist there.

    Well cutting a dependence on foreign oil,
    The price of oil going up helps Midland. Midland's economy is just about as good as ever thanks to the price of oil going through the roof. YoI don't think that community should bite the hand that feeds it.

    So we should build denser if it takes a long time, not that it is the better way to live?
    I don't believe living denser is a better way to live.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by VectorWega
    Yes. Which is why I was speaking in the past tense.
    I wasn't correcting you. Just dropping a little information.

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    I don't buy that. We've heard it time and again about Texas. "Texans love their yard, Texans will never give up there cars." The current dense booms in Houston and Dallas are showing this to be true. Even Austin, San Antonio and Ft Worth, projects fill in at a rapid pace. The will always be a demand for walkable living. I'm wondering if you have ever lived in Midland, not even going to ask if it was the 20 years that I did. A ten story condo refit would do fine there. A city of Midland's size shouldn't have the skyline it does, because it goes against your example of Niche Markets and land prices.
    I don't buy it either. Other similiar towns in Texas like Midland are well under way with high rise living with proved success. In Abilene you have the restored Wooten Hotel with 55 apartments. In Wichita Falls you have the restored Holt Hotel with 41 units, LaSalle Crossing with 15 units, Vantage Point Condo Building, and the old Austin Elem school which will make 30 units once renovated. I know there are also attempts underway in Amarillo with the Barfield Building and the Eagle Center. You also have the La Tour Condo Building in Amarillo which has been around for ages. I tend to think Midland will do well if it can find the right buildings to convert. Seems like it has to be the ones no longer suited for office purposes in the current market climate. Conversion of otherwise usless and historic buildings destined for demo are finding new life in residential living in these areas.
    Last edited by WTx; 22 May 2006 at 09:47 AM.

  42. #92
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    The 70ish million baby boomers which led the phenominal suburban neighborhood expansion during the past two generations is just now beginning to put tons of money into higher density residential (re)development.

  43. #93
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    This place is getting just downright nutty. Midland and Odessa can and should aspire to maintain and develop their central business districts and if we want to lament the destruction of a downtown building in West Texas, I don't see we we should be getting so much grief about it. The FW Forummers were complaining about their lost Landmark Tower and I do recall some opposition to the loss of the Cotton Exchange building in Dallas. Don't suggest that because Midland and Odessa aren't as grown up as the metroplex that we can't aspire to see a little preservation and/or new construction.
    Andy Haretip
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    Ture, Haretip! There are markets for this kind of space in cities like Midland too which has clearly been proven to anyone who stops for more than 10 minutes to do a little market research. Many are empty nesters and singles who may not have the money or desire to take care of a large spread. People in smaller cities desire walkable friendly neighborhoods too. Although I will agree that currently new highrise construction may be a bit too pricy for these markets at this time? Restoration seems to be the norm right now.

  45. #95
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTx
    Many are empty nesters and singles who may not have the money or desire to take care of a large spread.
    You'll mainly find empty nesters and elderly singles to be the target market of such developments in Midland. A townhome development would be much more successful than converting a building downtown (although, that would have it's own appeal..too bad there are very few dining/recreation options in that part of town).

    There are very few young singles with money in Midland. Most college graduates from Midland end up leaving the area.

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    You'll mainly find empty nesters and elderly singles to be the target market of such developments in Midland. A townhome development would be much more successful than converting a building downtown (although, that would have it's own appeal..too bad there are very few dining/recreation options in that part of town).

    There are very few young singles with money in Midland. Most college graduates from Midland end up leaving the area.
    Obviously condos would be for the empty nesters. I am sure Midland is like everywhere else in that young singles can afford downtown apartments just fine. Don't need alot of money for that and many are living in apartments anyway. Some will and do prefer converted downtown buildings just like everywhere else. Like I was saying in above posts, there are already cities like Midland around the state with working successful examples. Could be done in Midland too very easily!

  47. #97
    High-Rise Member VectorWega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTx
    Obviously condos would be for the empty nesters. I am sure Midland is like everywhere else in that young singles can afford downtown apartments just fine. Don't need alot of money for that and many are living in apartments anyway. Some will and do prefer converted downtown buildings just like everywhere else. Like I was saying in above posts, there are already cities like Midland around the state with working successful examples. Could be done in Midland too very easily!
    Yes, they would have to be apartments. If done affordably, that would be an option. However, there is no downtown scene in Midland (unless that has changed recently) so what is going to draw the young people there?

  48. #98
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    However, there is no downtown scene in Midland (unless that has changed recently) so what is going to draw the young people there?
    I don't see how that makes a difference? Most young people in apartments don't live near a "scene" as it is now and drive to where ever they want to go. Living downtown would put some closer to work or be good for those who want the urban/historic feel which is a currently unserved market. If they want a "scene" or other services like groceries they can do what they do now and just drive there. Downtown areas developing night life generally follows residents anyway. Generally restaurants that serve the office crowd can consider staying open later if the number of residents warrants.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTx
    I don't buy it either. Other similiar towns in Texas like Midland are well under way with high rise living with proved success. In Abilene you have the restored Wooten Hotel with 55 apartments. In Wichita Falls you have the restored Holt Hotel with 41 units, LaSalle Crossing with 15 units, Vantage Point Condo Building, and the old Austin Elem school which will make 30 units once renovated. I know there are also attempts underway in Amarillo with the Barfield Building and the Eagle Center. You also have the La Tour Condo Building in Amarillo which has been around for ages. I tend to think Midland will do well if it can find the right buildings to convert. Seems like it has to be the ones no longer suited for office purposes in the current market climate. Conversion of otherwise usless and historic buildings destined for demo are finding new life in residential living in these areas.
    Just curious, what's the population in each city you cite?

    That's what is meant by "niche market". A few units out of how many dewlling units in a city? A few high density units in a downtown area can make a difference (I'm banking on that, BTW) but as a percentage of the overall total of housing units in a city, it just isn't all that much.

    For those who advocate this lifestyle (I'm not advocating against it, as a point of interest) how should these changes be brought about? There are, obviously, two general choices: Market driven or Government driven. Please, compare and contrast the two and cite areas where they may intersect.


  50. #100
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    Do people in Odessa call it "Odessa-Midland"?

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