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Thread: Winstar Casino: Win or Lose, You ain't getting paid

  1. #1
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    Could This Be The Perfect Scam

    Why should you care, well Since; 90% of the occupants losing their money are considered to be from Texas and the owners are anticiating players losses for 2006 at 2 billion
    For any of you blackjack players out there who have visited the Winstar Casino to have a go on their tables; you may have been surprised to learn of the .50 cent fee they impose for each hand played. On numerous occasions when the house was asked "why the ante"?, their response would always include something to the effect that "The State of Oklahoma mandates that we charge this ante". Tied into this statement would be words like education for Native Americans, schoolbooks or that the monies are to be used for promotional purposes and would therefore be returned to the players in giveaways, etc.
    What strikes me as particularly odd is that nowhere have I seen in the rules governing blackjack by the State does it say anything about a mandatory ante. It does say that the State will receive a percentage of the net revenue generated but I have still not seen proof that the State directs the Winstar to charge this ante/fee to the players.
    Is The Winstar deceiving all of its players and if so why would the State of Oklahoma want to allow the Winstar to use them as a scape goat? Isn't this really just a fee? Ante- isn't an ante part of the award won by at least one of the involved players? How does the State monitor this supposedly mandated ante? In order to do so the State would have to watch over each table, count the number of hands played by every player, over 19 hours, every day. This would have to be done to assure the correct amount of ante money generated is paid to the State. How much money is generated from this fee? On an individual basis the perception is "well it's only .50 cents". Stop and add this up, play 20 hands and it cost you $10. Below is an assumption based on observations meant to determine the amounts of revenue generated, realizing of course that the casino would only know the correct amounts. This is simply an assumption, actual number of players and hands played will vary.

    7 maximum # of players per table
    38 tables
    266 maximum # hands per round

    *5min. average time to play one round ( This to is simply a guess it could be moreit could be less, we had to start somewhere)
    *Tables are open 19 hours per day (10am-5am)
    *Lets say 18 hours of actual playing time to consider dealer changes, chip restacking, etc
    *1 hour contains twelve 5min intervals therefore each table would at maximum capacity play 1512 hands per day (7 players, each player playing 12 hands per hour in an 18 hour period)
    *Now multiply 1512 hands per table by 38 tables and you have the maximum number of total hands played under these criteria the total being 57,456
    *Apply the .50 cent ante to 57,456 hands per day to determine the maximum revenue generated, that total is $28,728
    *Because not all tables are always going to be used during the 19 hours open nor are they always playing with 7 players per table, an estimate must be used.
    Here are a few calculations based on the theory above. The house generates the following:

    Per Day / Per Week / Per Month / Per Year
    $28,728 / $201,096 / $871,416 / $10,456,992 At Maximum 266
    $14,364 / $100,548 / $435,708 / $5,228,496 w/ 133 players
    $9,576 / $67,032 / $290,472 / $3,485,664 w/ 88 players
    $7,182 / $50,274 / $217,854 / $2,614,248 w/ 66 players
    $4,788 / $33,516 / $145,236 / $1,742,832 w/ 44 players


    Think about it, why would anyone want to pay someone else to take their money. The odds will always favor the house, to now pay the house this additional fee is ridiculous. You are wagering your money against equal amounts of their money, in a game that favors them and you are paying them for this chance, stupid, stupid, stupid.
    One theory I have regarding the .50 cent fee/ante and the reason for the possible deception is the Winstar is having you the player pay the State for the Winstar to have the right to offer blackjack. The $200 Million +/- of revenue generated from losing gamblers is not enough to pay the percentage owed to the State of Oklahoma apparently. The States cut of these monies is only factored on the table games after winners have been paid, the State collects nothing for the bingo style slots. Until someone can offer proof that the State indeed mandates the Winstar charges the ante I'm inclined to believe this theory. The fact that the Winstar has altered their explanation recently to now say that the ante is required by the State and half the money goes to the casino and half to the State suggests something is wrong here. In this country there is nothing wrong with a business making a profit for itself. Native Americans should certainly have the right and chance to make a living. What's wrong is it should not be allowed if indeed they are deceiving the public.

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    Winstar Casino: Win or Lose, You ain't getting paid

    Why North Texans should consider other options. To view video of this story click on or copy and paste link below in your address bar. Or go to WFAA’s site and type Winstar Casino in their search. Are these the kind of people you want to trust to give you a fair shake. The death threat part really should be an indicator to avoid this establishment. You never know you could be the next big winner to not get paid, then threatened and then the subject of legal action.

    »www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/w···cd7.html
    The transcript
    While Oklahoma has become Las Vegas' competition by drawing in Texas residents to its 85 casinos and bingo parlors, Indian property gambling regulations have some questioning their rules and fairness.
    An Arlington man said he thought his life would be forever changed when he was told he had won $11,289,874.74 after playing on a WinStar Casino machine that displayed the word "Congratulations!"
    While Stanley Rosemond's life did change, it wasn't in the way he expected—and it was without $11 million.
    Last summer, Rosemond went to WinStar, 85 miles north of Dallas. After the casino slot "big win," he was escorted to the cashier's booth, where he said employees seemed excited for him.
    "The attendant inside shows me the numbers and says, 'Would you like to see what you've won?'" he said.
    But after waiting several hours, Rosemond and his wife were taken to a large empty room and were seated before casino officials.
    "[There was] four of them and two of us, and they're on one side and we're on the other side," Rosemond said. "We don't know what to expect."
    The mood got less festive when the casino told Rosemond there would be no $11 million prize coming his way.
    "He says, 'OK, your machine malfunctioned, so we can't pay you,'" Rosemond recalled.
    Rosemond failed to spot a tiny warning label on the WinStar machine: "Malfunctions void all plays and pays."
    That didn't stop him from feeling as though the casino should still pay up.
    "You shouldn't have a machine that malfunctions," he said. "It should work, and if it doesn't, work the casino should stand behind it, because they are taking people's money away."
    William Thompson, who teaches public administration at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas, is an expert in the gambling business. He said while slot machines can malfunction, the casinos owe it to their customers to pay them unless the player is cheating.
    Las Vegas slot machines can clear $100,000 a year per machine, he said.
    "You pay the player off," he said. "Your machine was wrong. You screwed up. How about a malfunction when the player's supposed to win and it shows a loss?"
    WinStar Casinos, which is owned by the Chickasaw Indian tribe, declined to talk on camera to News 8.
    In a written statement, WinStar said, "Mr. Rosemond is claiming a win bigger than the machine could possibly pay based on the type of machine, the denomination and the wager." The tribe said the machine could only pay only $5,000. Rosemond said WinStar offered him a series of take it or leave it settlements that started out at $800, which he turned down. They subsequently offered Rosemond $1,199, which is $1 less than the casino would have to report to the IRS. They said he could accept it on the spot or leave with nothing.
    "We didn't know what we could do," Rosemond said.
    Rosemond said he took the casino's offer because he felt trapped. He tried to keep the one key piece of evidence from WinStar of his "malfunctioned" win—a card given to every WinStar player that tracks their identity and winnings.
    However, once he was told he had won big, casino officials confiscated it. Despite asking for the card back, Rosemond left without it after the assistant general manager said the card belonged to the Chickasaw Nation.
    "This is duress," Thompson said. "Any signature in those situations is under duress [and] should have no legal standing."
    Kay Vanwey, who was hired as Rosemond's lawyer after he returned from Oklahoma, was stopped in her tracks when she discovered the tribe would not let her take legal action in the case.
    "It is the Chickasaw Nation that makes the laws," Vanwey said. "It is the Chickasaw Nation that interprets the laws. It is the Chickasaw Nation that enforces the laws."
    She received a letter from the tribe's lawyer saying, "All inquiries you make may be at your own personal peril and those people you hope to represent."
    "If the intent was to intimidate me and frighten me, I certainly took it that way," she said.
    WinStar is the largest of 11 Chickasaw casinos in Oklahoma, casinos that netted more than $91 million last year, according to tribal records. Complaints about payment from Oklahoma Indian casinos are not rare.
    Oklahoma Assistant Attorney General Bill Leader said he gets about a dozen complaints from gamblers at [Oklahoma] Indian casinos a year, but has no jurisdiction in resolving them.
    Back in Las Vegas, Bill Thompson minces no words about the lesson behind this.
    "You ought to have a sign on the border of Oklahoma: 'You're about to enter Oklahoma and gamble in a casino. Two things can happen. They are both bad. You can lose and you can win. You ain't getting paid,'" he said.
    Last November, Rosemond received a summons from the Chickasaw tribal court in Oklahoma. He was the subject of a legal action, and in a declaratory judgment, the tribe said the case was closed.
    News 8 asked the Chickasaw Nation how many casino malfunctions they have a year; they did not reply.

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    shenanigans!

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    Thanks for spreading the word about this place. I have been cautioning people for over a year the story by WFAA will help considerably I hope at convincing people of the perils involved with this operation> I dont know what else to tell people that hasn't already been said by the Winstar. Not only are they greedy SOB's and crooks but pretty stupid to boot. The unanswered question posed regarding how often do their machines malfunction which was asked by the reporter of the Winstar but not answered? Because the answer is frequently. " I went to the Winstar and all I got was this death threat"

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    Mid-Rise Member DallasTT's Avatar
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    Yeah what he said.

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    the-young-and-the-bright RobertB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flathead
    Thanks for spreading the word about this place. I have been cautioning people for over a year the story by WFAA will help considerably I hope at convincing people of the perils involved with this operation> I dont know what else to tell people that hasn't already been said by the Winstar. Not only are they greedy SOB's and crooks but pretty stupid to boot. The unanswered question posed regarding how often do their machines malfunction which was asked by the reporter of the Winstar but not answered? Because the answer is frequently. "I went to the Winstar and all I got was this death threat"
    If there was ever a slogan crying out for an line of apparel at CafePress, that's the one!
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    Lakewooder Lakewooder's Avatar
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    "I got scalped at Winstar!"

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    FKA Ninjatune Justin Terveen's Avatar
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    ^ lol... damn..

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    The Fleecing of Texans II

    It's Friday night and the place is dead one hostess says "Our Friday nites are starting to look more like Monday nites" Another hostess replies "What do you expect the casino hasn't been paying out in probably a month or better".

    Thank goodness anyway it appears enough people have either started 1)heeding the warnings 2) Been burned to many times by this sorry excuse for a casino 3) Have seen a few of the investigative news clips that have aired over the last few months proving some of what I had been saying.

    For those few none believers or uniformed. (Spreading the news of this place is a wise decision especially to those you know that are going.)Yes once again The Winstar Casino is featured in a televised investigative report focusing on the Winstar's continued use of several methods in which they defraud the customer. This clip is from WFAA News 8 and has various victims testimonies and employees verifying the casino's involvement in these scams.

    If you are planning a trip there over the Memorial day weekend be prepard to lose if the casino operates in the fashion it has been over the last month approx. As of 5/26 my colleages say the place is worse than ever. So much so that the casino has resorted to announcing fake jackpot wins over the PA system to cover up the fact that they are not paying anyone. This manuvere is intended to make people think others are winning. A lot of people fall for it to. I was told at one point the other day the front desk of the casino was handed a sheet of fake jackpots and what area in the casino they were to have occurred and told to read a new one off approx every 15 minutes . These people are some sorry SOB's folks regardless if you have ever won there or not.

    Here's a small list of some of the casinos favorite methods to cheat and steal from the customer:

    1) Practice of voiding customers wins through various means, some of which include the use of "Power failures", "Manipulating players machine" "Distrupting players machine" and out right lying telling customer machine malfuctioned to void the winning payout.

    2) The continued lie implicating the State of Oklahoma as the sole reason why the casino must charge a fee for every hand played in their card game. Stating , "The reason for the fee is by direct order of the State of Oklahoma and is mandated by the State of Oklahoma for the purpose of funding Native American childrens education

    3) Manipulating jackpot payout wins to coordinate the winning event to happen when the casino wants. Used to encourage more play toward that amount. Done at the expense of all trying for the win not knowing they could never win until the casino releases it.

    4) Misrepresenting Jackpot amounts in order to encourage players to try for that inflated amount thinking it is winnable.

    5) Continued misrepresentation of machines payout percentages

    6) The continued lie to customers of their comp program for over 2 years now.

    "Half the distance twice the fun" It might be half the distance but there is no fun in being cheated. Realise this is not a post about losing. Losing is part of the game but there is a big difference between "Games of Chance" & "Games of NO Chance" Noboby should have to be cheated. Go anywhere else don't go to these peoples establishments. Indian casinos have always had a bad reputation, the Winstar is writing brand new chapters to help keep that theory alive

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    Preface: I am in no way affliated with the operations that run WinStar Casino.

    I do, however, happen to know someone who works for a different Indian Nation in Oklahoma.

    Not only are these casinos governed and overseen by the federal government's Indian Gaming Regulatory Commission, they are also closely watched by that tribe's gaming authority as well. The problem lies in the fact that this isn't as publicized as the Nevada gaming commission which oversees play in Las Vegas casinos. They spend lots of money to assure the public that everything is above board. But gameplay in Indian casinos is just as regulated as that which takes place in Las Vegas or Atlantic City.
    I tell everyone...I smile just because...I've got a city love...

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    Let me set the record straight

    I'm an insider to the Oklahoma gaming industry and have intimate knowledge of the Winstar operation as well as other Oklahoma Casinos. Let me just make the following points.....

    1) The industry is regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission (NIGC). In some ways the regulation is more stringent than even the Vegas Casinios

    2) Let me make the following points about the Stanley Rosemond incident ($11.2M payout)

    First....all machines advertise their prizes and paytables. The machine in question had a maximum advertised jackpot of somewhere between $10K and $15K. When a customer puts their 25 cents or whatever into the machine, that is the most they should expect to win. While there are progressives with variable prizes, those prizes are also advertised on the meters near the machines. This was not a progressive machine. When the incident occurred the casino offered, and the Rosemonds initially accepted, a substantial prize that was in fact the maximum prize they could have won given the amount that they had bet even though the computer records showed that based on the bingo game they were playing, they were not entitled to that prize. The problem was clearly a legitimate computer malfunction

    The Chickasaw Tribe has taken this and other incidents very seriously. They have threatened to cancel the contract with the game vendor in question and that vendor has completely replaced the central computer system at Winstar with a newer generation with more safeguards and they are constantly under pressure to ensure this doesn't happen again.

    Being computers....the possibility of a hardware or software glitch will always exist and there have been other instances of computer malfunction. In most cases if the prize being claimed in a malfunction situation falls within the realm of what the player could have won (i.e. was advertised), the prize will be paid unless there is some obvious attempt at fraud.

    3) Games at Winstar (and all other Oklahoma Casinos) are designed to payout in a range of 92% to 98% which is within the realm of Las Vegas casinos. The exact percentage is determined by the denomination of the machine and other factors.

    4) I can't comment on the table games as I am not involved in that aspect of the operation

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    3) Manipulating jackpot payout wins to coordinate the winning event to happen when the casino wants. Used to encourage more play toward that amount. Done at the expense of all trying for the win not knowing they could never win until the casino releases it.

    ThackervilleSam says......this simply isn't true. The systems at Winstar are based on an electronic bingo game in which players actually play against each other and there is a random ball draw done on a central computer (owned and operated by the game vendors and not the Casino) that determines game results. You can figure this out pretty easily by examining the help screens on the game stations. It would be very difficult to do what you are claiming and with the inside knowledge I have (I do not work for the casino BTW), I can say unequivocally that this does not happen.

    4) Misrepresenting Jackpot amounts in order to encourage players to try for that inflated amount thinking it is winnable.

    Thackerville Sam says.....all jackpots are winnable and advertised correctly. The situation usually becomes a problem when an unadvertised jackpot is claimed as in the Stanley Rosemond case. BTW the Rosemonds never saw a winning prize on the machine.....the money appeared on their account due to the computer error and they learned of it when they tried to cash out.......pretty much the same type of computer glitch that might add a large sum of money to your bank account.....do you think your bank would allow you to keep that? Hell no.

    5) Continued misrepresentation of machines payout percentages

    Payout percentages are 92-98% over the long term at Winstar and other casinos in Oklahoma. Players are amazingly astute at figuring out which machines pay and game vendors employ various strategies to increase the amount of time a player plays on a particular machine. There is almost as much concern about games that underpay as there is for games that overpay......vendors invest a lot of money into developing games and want them to be successful. Competition from other casinos also keeps Winstar management honest as far as payout percentages......although those payout percentages are actually configured and determined by the game vendors and not Winstar.

    6) The continued lie to customers of their comp program for over 2 years now.

    Can't comment on this as I don't know much about it.

    7) I was told at one point the other day the front desk of the casino was handed a sheet of fake jackpots and what area in the casino they were to have occurred and told to read a new one off approx every 15 minutes .

    Those jackpots are not fake. The gaming system at Winstar uses a central computer system that records every transaction that occurs. It is very simple to run a report showing all jackpots that occur within a defined timeframe. On a busy Saturday night there are plenty of them to read.....

    BTW poster.....do you work for the Shreveport Casinos? Sure sounds like it. I've never heard so much BS in my life.

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    I’m an insider to the Oklahoma gaming industry and have intimate knowledge of the Winstar operation as well as other Oklahoma Casinos. Let me just make the following points.....
    Insider I don't doubt that but inside what? The casino, Multimedia, NIGC, Chickasaw tribe?

    1) The industry is regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission (NIGC). In some ways the regulation is more stringent than even the Vegas Casinios
    I love this one it’s usually the most thrown out there example used by defenders of inappropriate operations. It is irrelevant for one and is comparing apples to dog food.
    For the hell of it give us some examples of these tougher regulations.
    What you failed to mention is that Class II gaming facilities of which the Winstar is are basically left to regulate themselves. The reality is that Indian casinos are largely self-regulating. You being an insider and all probably already knew that. Nothing like letting the fox watch over the hen house. Considering how the Winstar has already demonstrated just how ethical they are. We are supposed to believe that they regulate themselves to the highest degree? If these casinos are so stringently regulated then why has the Federal Government made it a point to address the issue?
    I find it hard to believe that the NIGC with their appox. 75-80 employees and allotted 10 million dollar budget are able to regulate an 18 billion dollar a year CASH industry nationwide containing 350- 400 or more gaming establishments. Better than that of the Nevada gaming commission with 430+ employees and a 36 million-dollar budget regulating establishments in Nevada only.
    Even with the countless number of proven reports throughout the country and over the years that show the temptation of greed to be to much to overcome in a industry offering up billions in cash monies and that is self enforced. You are to have us believe that this is just not the case and that Indian gaming is getting the shaft. In the case of the Winstar the only shaft they are getting is the one they are pulling out of their last victim. Why don’t you take some of that hard earned money the casino must pay you and actually go there and wager it. Then you can tell us how fair you seem to think the casino Nowinstar is.

    The 98% payout nonsense again maybe true but as you know this would be over the life of the machine and at present the only machines doing that at the Winstar are: 1) Malfunctioning, as they like to call it 2) Shut off 3) Are doing so in amounts that would not be considered much of a win by anyone. Paying me back $1.25 for a $1.00 wager hardly seems like much of a win now does it. Once the nickel and dime players start to realize, that the 10 whole dollars they think they walked out with in winnings actual cost them 20 in gas + the time invested to actually net a negative 10 bucks. The Winstar will have to resort to threatening people just to get them in to play, instead of just to get out of paying them.
    You can be certain that yes indeed the Winstar has resorted to announcing false jackpot wins to entice the customers into thinking people are actually winning. If they are not false then they are extremely old wins or duplicated ones.
    So why does the Winstar feel it necessary to announce jackpots in the first place, it benefits no one? It would seem perfectly clear to me that the so-called winning patron would speak volumes on their own. Where are all these so called winners? Why is it almost impossible to witness such an event? Who’s shit’n who here friend. I see more jackpots anywhere else in 20 minutes than all day at the Winstar. Having an avg. of 3 jackpots per hour paid out from 2,100 + machines yikes. An aggressive player can spin a slot 500 – 800 spins an hour. For the hell of it lets say each person played 200 spins per hour (that’s 18 seconds between spins) and averaged .10 cents per spin. .10 x 200 x 2100=$42,000 per hour as an example of the kinds of money generated.
    This is an establishment that has no qualms about threatening the lawyer representing Rosemond in writing no less, a lawyer. This just helps prove what they are capable of and how low their ethics are. How easy would it be? Quite frankly, I must admit it’s a pretty good idea if you’re out to cheat people. Damn near impossible to prove except for the fact that (1) Very and I mean very rarely do you ever actually see a winning customer that hit a jackpot. How can you explain a casino housing over 2,100 machines and a customer that spends 3-4 hours not see one jackpot winner yet they are announcing that they are occurring and advertise that they payout on avg. 70 jackpots a day. (2) Why is it that after hearing announced jackpot wins over the pa during a period of (x) number of hours nobody employed their can verify the existence of such events (attendance, cashiers, etc). (3) Loose lips sink ships, why would employees of the casino admit this to be true? (4) You can not have winning jackpots occurring in parts of the casino that have been closed yet the damn fools will announce such events occurred.
    If the Winstar is the institution we should all model ourselves after with regards to honesty and fair play and integrity, etc., etc. Then why do they see fit to spend upwards of a million dollars in ad funds to try and improve their image? Surely an institution with such values as you claim could easily portrait themselves in a fashion worthy of the patrons. The problem is you can spin it six ways to Sunday but $200,000,000.00 in expected revenue equals 2 hundred million dollars lost by patrons in Chickasaw casinos and that is only the reported revenue. How much more that is not reported will never know.
    More importantly though is why do they have to improve their image?
    Some advice would be to stop lying to your customers and for God's sake make it a point to no longer threaten them.

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    Our recent survey visited 4 casinos where evaluations were conducted on a range of topics from the food served to the payout ratio. The Casinos included Seneca-Allegany Casino in Salamanca, NY, Harrah's Casino in Metropolis, IL, Horseshoe Casino in Sherevport, LA, Winstar Casino in Thackerville, OK.

    The Seneca-Allegany Casino in Salamanca, NY is a Native American casino offering table games, blackjack, craps, 3 card poker, roulette, etc. plus a large assortment of slots ranging from 1 penny to $100. The casino also offers a poker room and a slot room for non smoking players. Attentive valet parking, free drink service including alcohol, live music. Their comp policy is reasonable and rewards are given for play which can be used for purchases in their store and dining. The dining is buffet, offer a wide varity of very good choices from prime rib to chinese. Their payout is average indicative of a fair casino ratio. We witnessed a player win a $360,000 jackpot on a nickel slot while there, our play rewarded us a little less than even. Summary: Not a bad place to visit wide variety of play and entertainment, good food, establishing themselves after the Vegas style casinos.

    Harrah's in Metropolis, IL Offering table games, blackjack, 3 card poker, roulette, etc. plus a large assortment of slots a high dollar room. Attentive valet parking, free drink service including alcohol. Their comp policy is top notch and rewards are given for play which can be used for dining etc. As part of the network of Harrah's owned casinos one should definately sign up for their rewards card many perks can be obtained thru the use of this card. The dining is excellent offering upscale cuisine. Their payout seemed standard we witnessed several jackpots, our play rewarded us a little more than even. Summary: Not a bad place to visit wide variety of play, good food, to be expected of one of the leaders in the gaming industry.

    Horseshoe Casino in Sherevport, LA Offering table games, blackjack, 3 card poker, craps, roulette, etc. plus a large assortment of slots, a high dollar room a poker room. Attentive valet parking, free drink service including alcohol. This casino set the standard for others to follow Their comp policy is un-matched and rewards are given for play which can be used for dining etc. As part of the network of Harrah's owned casinos one should definately sign up for their rewards card many perks can be obtained thru the use of this card. Including cash back, rooms, dining, etc. As a tier style reward system players advance through amount of play, receiving increased rewards as you continue upwards. Each tier presents advantages exclusive to that level, like private players lounges as an example. The dining is excellent offering upscale cuisine to buffet. Their payout is good we witnessed several jackpots, one for $160,000, our play rewarded us several jackpots and this time we came out ahead. Summary: Why go elsewhere, wide variety of play, good food, on site hotel, free drinks just about anything you can dream up they will make. As their commercial says "We know how to treat the gambler"

    Winstar Casino in Thackerville, OK A Native American casino offering only blackjack and a large assortment of slots, a high dollar room, a poker room. Un-attentive valet parking, drink service includes: water, soda or coffee. No alcohol. This casino set the standard for others to not follow. They require a fee of 50 cents per hand to be charged to the player for every hand played on their blackjack table and lie right from the start by telling us this is manditory by direct order of the State of OK, which we know is not true. Their comp policy is none. Their rewards are based on $1 rewarded for every $600 played. The dining is terrible both with the food and service. Their payout is a joke, what we won elsewhere we lost here. We witnessed No jackpots won by others during the 8 plus hours there, the exception being the one jackpot we won on a 10 cent slot that cost us $1,416 to win $1,350. The attendances are over aggressive constantly bothering you or stalking your play in hopes to be there first if you are lucky enough to actually win, expecting a tip . Summary: This casino is a perfect example of why the creation of regulating organizations were formed that are to keep casinos honest. Apparently these organizations have failed to regulate this establishment. Upon interviewing several patrons it was learned that this casino apparently embraces all the negative stereotyping associated with Native American casinos and may actually be the newest author to that book of thought. The Winstar represented one of the worst playing experiences I have ever had, their management of player satisfaction is zero. We could not believe that an establishment could operate with such disregard for the customer and thought possibly this was just a bad day. So we returned for another look and found the same. This organization is apparently successful but can only be attributed to by its location and lack of competition, nowhere else could this place exist successfully and operate in the manner in which they do. Avoid altogether. Their exsistence is for one reason only and that is to part a fool from his money

    Our reviews of any and all establishments are done so independently and are not associated in any way with any other gaming organization. We have no association with any entity that could benefit from our reviews.


    5 = Best .........Comps.....Rewards..Alcohol...Valet...Food...Servic e...Overall...Return
    Harrah's, IL .........4............4...............Y........ 5..........4...........4...........4.......... Y

    Horseshoe, LA .....5............5...............Y........ 5..........5...........5...........5........... Y

    Seneca, NY .........3............3...............Y..........4 .........3...........3...........3 1/2.... Y

    Winstar, OK.........0............1/4............N.........1/2.....1/2.........1/2..........0........ N

  15. #15
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    Insider you say

    ThackervilleSam, tell us how much information is a drink server / jackpot attendant working for the Winstar 3 days a week privy to anyway? Your an insider all right. Dont worry I'm sure the Winstar won't be eliminating your job anytime soon. I would suggest that since your so adamant about defending the honor of this establishment you should consider your vote carefully for governor of Texas if you live there. Now that people like Jack Abramoff & Michael Scanlon are no longer involved in keeping gaming out of TX. There's a realistic chance that Texas could bring gaming on board. When that day comes you can be guaranteed the Chickasaw Nation will be packing up that oversized circus tent and leaving you and all the supposed development they talk about but has not happened, to the people of Thackerville. Thats what companies do that will only give their employees part-time hours to avoid paying them any benefits.

  16. #16
    Lakewooder Lakewooder's Avatar
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    What's going on at the new Choctaw place north of Texoma, does it have similar rules as Winstar?

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    I couldn't tell ya the answer to that since I've never been there. Ive seen a few post that didn't actually glorify the place but didn't condem it either. Other than hearing their commercial on the radio thats all I know.

  18. #18
    the-young-and-the-bright RobertB's Avatar
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    I drove by the Choctaw place near Durant just this past weekend. It's big. Just as I was passing the behemoth building, an ad for the casino came across the radio (Plano-based KHYI 95.3 The Range). The billboards up US 75 tout it as the Second Coming of Las Vegas, making sure to mention that you can play poker.

    I suppose this is to contrast it with the Creek Nation "casinos" in the Tulsa area. I went in one of those a few years back, and it was the most depressing thing on Earth. Rows upon rows of video slot machines -- no sound of gears whirring, just electronic bleeps and blips. And hollow-eyed people sitting in front of them as though they were wired into the machinery, pouring out their welfare checks in hopes of instant gratification. There was a room full of bingo machines as well, and even though they weren't running at the time, you could feel the hopelessness in the air. If there's one thing I disagree with Kinky Friedman about, it's his support of these dark, soul-destroying rooms as a source of income for the State of Texas.

    I didn't stop at the new Choctaw Casino. I have no desire to pay the tax on false hope and bad math skills.
    As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09

  19. #19
    FKA Ninjatune Justin Terveen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertB

    I suppose this is to contrast it with the Creek Nation "casinos" in the Tulsa area. I went in one of those a few years back, and it was the most depressing thing on Earth. Rows upon rows of video slot machines -- no sound of gears whirring, just electronic bleeps and blips. And hollow-eyed people sitting in front of them as though they were wired into the machinery, pouring out their welfare checks in hopes of instant gratification. There was a room full of bingo machines as well, and even though they weren't running at the time, you could feel the hopelessness in the air. If there's one thing I disagree with Kinky Friedman about, it's his support of these dark, soul-destroying rooms as a source of income for the State of Texas.
    man, I feel dirty...

  20. #20
    the-young-and-the-bright RobertB's Avatar
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    Not limited to Oklahoma, apparently:
    The News Bizarre
    Jan. 25, 2007, 10:03AM
    Remember: The house always wins
    Associated Press
    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...e/4498662.html

    BENSALEM, Pa. — Stephen Wilkinson was feeding 50 cents a pull into a slot machine at a new Pennsylvania casino when the machine lit up and started blaring music.

    An on-screen message told Wilkinson — by name — that he had won $102,000 in a power play jackpot. The woman next to him screamed with excitement.

    But Wilkinson's six-figure payday was short-lived. Casino officials soon informed the retired carpenter that the message was sent in error.

    "They offered me two comps for the buffet," said a deflated Wilkinson.

    Wilkinson suffered his reversal of fortune on Monday, less than a month after 2,100 slot machines went into operation at Philadelphia Park, a racetrack just outside Philadelphia.

    Philadelphia Park spokesman Andrew Becker confirmed that Wilkinson had received the message on a Wheel of Fortune slot machine. Wilkinson's name appeared in the message because he was using a casino-issued players card to track his bets.

    "It was just an error in the communication system — an unfortunate one, I might add," Becker said.

    He noted that all machines carry a disclaimer telling players that machine malfunctions void all pays and plays. But he acknowledged that the mistake appears to have been in the casino's computerized in-house communications system, not in the machine.

    Wilkinson, who said he had visited the casino about 15 times, has filed a complaint with Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board.

    "If this is a violation of internal controls, they (the casino) will be heavily fined and sanctioned," board spokesman Doug Harbach said.
    As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09

  21. #21
    FKA Ninjatune Justin Terveen's Avatar
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    what a crock...

  22. #22
    the-young-and-the-bright RobertB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjatune™
    what a crock...
    The question isn't whether a casino will treat you fairly. The question is: why would you expect a company whose profits depend on deception and misdirection to treat you fairly in the first place? Allowing casino gambling in Texas to increase the state's revenues is like hiring the fox to improve egg production.
    As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09

  23. #23
    Eulogize the FW Streetcar Haretip's Avatar
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    Those dang machines aren't any better than an e-voting booth. There's no paper trail to prove whether you won or not - it's all in the computer. Maybe someone in the industry would be happy to explain how an independent outside auditor could determine whether or not the machine is engaged in fairplay or deception. Those electrons sure are easy to move around.
    Andy Haretip
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