Dallas Morning News -- Shots Fired From Superdome at Rescue Helicopters
ORLEANS - The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday after shots were reported fired at a military helicopter and arson fires broke out outside the arena. No injuries were immediately reported.
The scene at the Superdome became increasingly chaotic, with thousands of people rushing from nearby hotels and other buildings, hoping to climb onto the buses taking evacuees from the arena, officials said. Paramedics became increasingly alarmed by the sight of people with guns.
Richard Zeuschlag, chief of the ambulance service that was handling the evacuation of sick and injured people from the Superdome, said it was suspending operations "until they gain control of the Superdome."
Shots were fired at a military helicopter over the Superdome before daybreak, he said.
He said the National Guard told him that it was sending 100 military police officers to restore order.
"That's not enough," said Zeuschlag, whose Acadian Ambulance is based in Lafayette. "We need a thousand."
Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said the military -- which was handling the evacuation of the able-bodied from the Superdome -- had suspended operations, too, because fires set outside the arena were preventing buses from getting close enough to pick up people.
Tens of thousands of people started rushing out of other buildings when they saw buses pulling up and hoped to get on, he said. But the immediate focus was on evacuating people from the Superdome, and the other refugees were left to mill around.
Zeuschlag said paramedics were calling him and crying for help because they were so scared of people with guns at the Superdome. He also said that during the night, when a medical evacuation helicopter tried to land at a hospital in the outlying town of Kenner, the pilot reported 100 people were on the landing pad, some with guns.
"He was frightened and would not land," Zeuschlag.
Earlier Thursday, the first busload of survivors had arrived at the Houston Astrodome, where air conditioning, cots, food and showers awaited them.
"We are going to do everything we can to make people comfortable," Red Cross spokeswoman Margaret O'Brien-Molina said. "Places have to be found for these people. Many of these people may never be able to rebuild."
Astrodome officials said they would accept only the 25,000 people stranded at the Superdome -- a rule that was tested when a school bus arrived from New Orleans filled with families with children seeking shelter.
At first, Astrodome officials said the refugees couldn't come in, but then allowed them to enter for food and water. Another school bus also was allowed in.
The Astrodome is far from a hotel, but it was a step above the dank, sweltering Superdome, where the floodwaters were rising, the air conditioning was out, the ceiling leaked, trash piled up and toilets were broken.
Harris County Judge Robert Eckels said the 40-year-old Astrodome is "not suited well" for such a large crowd long-term, but officials are prepared to house the displaced as long as possible. New Orleans officials said residents may not be able to return for months.
The Astrodome's schedule has been cleared through December. The dome is used on occasion for corporate parties and hospitality events, but hasn't been used for professional sports in years.
In New Orleans, the refugees had lined up for the first buses, some inching along in wheelchairs, some carrying babies. Almost everyone carried a plastic bag or bundled bedspread holding the few possessions they had left. Many had no idea where they were heading.
"We tried to find out. We're pretty much adrift right now," said Cyril Ellisworth, 46. "We're pretty much adrift in life. They tell us to line up and go, and we just line up and go."
The Astrodome's new residents will be issued passes that will allow them to leave and return as they please, something that wasn't permitted in New Orleans. Organizers also plan to find ways to help the refugees contact relatives.
DAGNABBIT!
I don't think New Orleans will be the same place for many years. This could certainly have a similar impact as the Galveston hurricane in 1900. Perhaps they will move to a city above sea-level.Originally Posted by barrycb
However, I think that the current refugees moving to Dallas and Houston will be become permanent residents. If they didn't have the money to move out of New Orleans, they won't have the money to move back.
DAGNABBIT!
Yeah but this is the 21st century. We have learned how NOT to rely on the fruits of own labor since a hundred years ago. If we truly knew how to survive disasters- which we don't- then this wouldn't be such a big deal. They didn't have to worry about ALL of their food spoiling in the refrigereatrs that they didn't have or how to get to ice that they didn't have or running water that they didn't have or that the flood waters were contaminated with gasoline from all the cars and sewage from the plumbing that they didn't have. Think about it. We're freaking out because loved ones can't get cell service. I just SMS'd a friend in Hammond, but I have to stop because she needs her cell phone and eventually it will be rendered useless when the battery dies, because there's no electricity. They are milling around for ice. Ice was the furthest thing from the minds of the 1900 Galveston victims. People just had more horse sense back then and could actually rely on themselves to construct things and do things, rather than just blindly wander the streets in search of electricity. We have learned to totally rely on technology.
I wonder how many evacuees will remain in Dallas or Texas. Will this have any effect on the local economy?
____________________________
Reunion Arena serving hundreds of evacuees
12:02 PM CDT on Thursday, September 1, 2005
By KIMBERLY DURNAN / DallasNews.com
Calvin Fortenberry finally had a good night's sleep. He credits the air conditioning, bottled water, food and toilets at the Reunion Arena evacuee camp. "It's a whole lot better than what we encountered in Louisiana," the 51-year-old postal worker said Thursday. "It's going OK."
Anita Foster, a spokeswoman for the American Red Cross in Dallas, estimated that 600 people showed up at the shelter Wednesday night. She said it's difficult to track the evacuees because many are staying in hotels or with family but drop by for food or other services. "Disaster happens step by step and what these families have been through is serious," Foster said. "They are realizing they don't have a job and they don't have a home. But not everyone has the same needs. So we will try to get a community built that will meet their immediate needs, then we will look at the longer term needs."
Many agencies were working to make the stay more comfortable for the hundreds of people camping on the floor of the former home of the Dallas Mavericks and Stars. Dallas Area Rapid Transit was providing transportation, while the Dallas Independent School District has offered to educate the children who were displaced from their schools. Parkland Memorial Hospital stopped by with a medical van and was offering care and prescription drugs for those who left home with a short supply. "What we are seeing mostly is diabetes and hypertension," said Barry Hull, associate director for the Parkland pharmacy. "On top of that, everyone has cholesterol medication." "Once people's medication runs out, they start gravitating to the emergency room," Hull said. "Our goal is to keep people out of the hospital." Many people left with a three-day supply of medication believing they then would return home for more, Foster said.
Dallas-area residents have pitched in by offering space in their homes, money and other donations. "We've created a bulletin board that will connect the people in need with those who have something to offer," Foster said. "It's so generous." There was still plenty of room at the arena on Thursday morning. Should it reach capacity, the city of Dallas has identified the convention center as a possible spillover location. Fort Worth also has shelters open, she said.
Some Louisianans were trying to decide whether they would return once New Orleans dries out. Claudette Wallace, 63, fears her home near the French Quarter is ruined. She said she would like to go back to see if she can salvage some family photos and some prized cast-iron pots, but she may live in Texas. "This may be a good start," she said. "We've been looking at your city and it's really organized. This is a chance to start over and to see new things."
E-mail kdurnan@dallasnews.com
Does this say more about:
* How jaded we are, and how good we really have it?
* How bad New Orleans' legendary city corruption was?
* How naive these new arrivals are?
I think it's a combination of all three, but overall, I think Dallas may not have it nearly as bad as this board may make it out. Perhaps the ability to look within and see the faults is a sign of a strong city and people.
Warning signs ahead, though: on the bus today, I heard people complaining about how we were able to house all these folks from out of town, but we can't find a place for our own homeless. I didn't point out the fact that the residents of Reunion Arena will have agreed to leave their contraband back in the Big Easy -- a news article I read noted that there's a large contingent of folks outside the New Orleans Not-So-Superdome who aren't allowed in because they won't give up their booze/drugs/guns/pets.
Anyway, I'm afraid such grumblings by locals are just the tip of the iceberg. We're facing a refugee crisis of third world proportions, and this time, we can't just deport the problem across someone else's border.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
"I'm afraid such grumblings by locals are just the tip of the iceberg. We're facing a refugee crisis of third world proportions, and this time, we can't just deport the problem across someone else's border."
True -- we do not know what the ramifications will be -- will there be a backlash against the illegal aliens, for instance?
What we do know: people are dying on the streets today while Nero fiddles.
Sorry I brought Bush into this...I just thought it was akward to see him so festive on such a dark day for America..although I heard Bush has missles pointed to the next hurricane that tries to attack our soils, and he has special forces hunting down El Nino...the mastermind behind these evil hurricanes.
The weather hates us for our freedom.
Dallas uber alles
We're developing a defense (in a joint project with the Japanese).
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/25/Autos/nissan_cannons/I believe the Department of Homeland Defense is planning to enhance these cannons with More Power.
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Nissan has been angering some neighbors of its Canton, Miss., auto manufacturing plant with its noisy attempt to change the local weather, according to news reports.
Concerned that hail storms could damage the paint on newly manufactured cars, the company has been using "hail suppression cannons," which send a loud sonic blast into the air above the factory, according to recent stories in the Jackson, Miss., Clarion Ledger and in the industry newspaper Automotive News.
Theoretically, the system prevents hail over an approximately 1-mile radius by vibrating water droplets in the air that form hail. Vibrating the droplets supposedly disrupts the hail-forming process, preventing hail storms.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I'm literally getting sick with every news update I read. I can't believe how slowly these people are getting aid. It's truly absurd.
...these devils of yours they need love
Come and kneel with me Body and Soul...
Has anyone heard what the refugees in Reunion might need? Blankets, snack foods, etc?
Oh don't be sorry. Sometimes I deal with tragedies in probably the wrong way. Personally, I've been heavily stressed over this. I apologize to everyone about my political comment. Everyone knows I'm conservative in here, i think. I'm just frankly very frustrated that we don't have enough troops here to enforce martial law in these areas because all our troops are in Iraq. I was just venting, in a way. Our troops are far more needed here now than in "Death Toll" Iraq
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
I would think they need everything. Here's a list our church told us to bring. Notice, these are the things most people forget about:
Baby clothes
Baby Formula
Feminine Hygiene Products
Diapers
Hand towels
Wash cloths
Combs (pocket size)
Bars of soap
Tooth brushes
Toothpaste
Shampoo
But really anything counts.
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
Should some of the levees be taken down after they get all the people out of New Orleans and just make it our Atlantis?
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
The Red Cross is asking that ONLY MONEY be given to help those at Reunion Arena. that way, the extra help coming in can be equally spread to help the homeless...
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....15c7e5f0.html
The American Red Cross has asked that people NOT bring clothes, food or other items to Reunion Arena where the evacuees are being sheltered. The emergency shelter is designed to give equal treatment and donated items make that mission difficult. However, money and volunteers are needed. Contact the American Red Cross at 1-800-HELP-NOW or www.redcross.org or DallasNews.com's How to Help resources.
...these devils of yours they need love
Come and kneel with me Body and Soul...
This is one of the most graphic of all the articles I've read so far...I'm just in disbelief that this story is about the US.
New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes
By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer
New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday, as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out and storm survivors battled for seats on the buses that would carry them away from the chaos. The tired and hungry seethed, saying they had been forsaken.
"I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive," said Canadian tourist Larry Mitzel, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. "I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire."
Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the frustration, fear and anger mounted, despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.
New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a "national disgrace" and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.
About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew increasingly hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead. Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."
A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.
In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find. But the bedlam made that difficult.
"This is a desperate SOS," Nagin said in a statement. "Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses."
At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.
"I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair.
"You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people," he added. "You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here."
The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.
"They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said. "They're telling us they're going to come get us one day, and then they don't show up."
Every so often, an armored state police vehicle cruised in front of the convention center with four or five officers in riot gear with automatic weapons. But there was no sign of help from the National Guard.
At one point the crowd began to chant "We want help! We want help!" Later, a woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm, "The Lord is my shepherd ..."
"We are out here like pure animals," the Issac Clark said.
"We've got people dying out here — two babies have died, a woman died, a man died," said Helen Cheek. "We haven't had no food, we haven't had no water, we haven't had nothing. They just brought us here and dropped us."
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell — it's every man for himself.'"
The rest of the story can be found here
Good point Mike. We've been trying to redesign the Mississippi for generations, most recently to keep it flowing THROUGH New Orleans instead of letting it change it's course naturally to the west. At the same time, we've allowed the levees to deteriorate and even moved funding for stabilizing them to the "rebuilding" effort in Iraq. Another fine mess... Atlantis or Venice, might be a great starting point for our next manmade intervention. At the very least this is a great lesson in building cities below sea level, and the canals needed to keep them above the water. And if some people are naive enough to think that politics does not and will not rear it's ugly head in this situation... well, dream on.
The human response to this catastrophy should not be a surprise to anyone. It's nice to be optomistic and sunny-side up, but a large percentage of regular people living in this country are just a few degrees below the boiling point. The lawlessness polluting New Orleans could happen in every American community. The rescue of those made homeless by this storm may actually serve as our formal indictment.
I was watching a Louisiana documentary due to Kitrina and did you know that 25 sq. miles of land erosion is being lost every single year just on the Louisiana coast? And the cause of this due to the levees seperating the Mississippi River from the marshes. I learned that the Mississippi River is what helps actually keep the marshes healthy and strong. These marshes give a buffer to inland areas during hurricanes.
Slightly off subject, but that is why I hate the levees in Dallas. Instead of building bigger levees, move the people.
Levees are not the answer. Flood plains are a blessing in disguise.
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
I'm sure I'm not alone in having trouble taking seriously a statement by the "Revolutionary Communist Party, USA", but even mainstream news outlets are starting to discuss the impact of years of social disparity on the current situation in New Orleans.
Hurricane Katrina: The People Did Not Have to Die (excerpt)
http://www.ntimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=3004
People, from all walks of life, are suffering because preventive measures that could have lessened the effects of the hurricane are not profitable. People were forced into an "every-man-for-himself" situation, so millions were left to try and survive on their own. Over 100,000 people were left in New Orleans -- often because they didn't have a car, gas or cash.
This disaster revealed the unequal and oppressive relations of this system. People live in conditions where when a disaster hits, they are left in severe and needless danger of death. On TV, we've seen the many thousands of Black people trapped in New Orleans and other dangerous places. We see the results of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow and the present-day effects of this oppressive history in sharp relief.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I'm not sure if this is doctored or not...
Dallas uber alles
Unfortuantely, it appears to be true. The subject came up on NPR's Diane Rehm show this morning. When desperate black people get food from a flooded store, it's "looting". When desperate white people get food from a flooded store, it's "finding".
On the other hand, shooting is shooting, regardless of the race of the shooter.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
By the way, it should be notable that those captions were written by two different agencies and two different people writing a caption. One is French.
Anyway, I only wanted to say that if you haven't heard that Nagin interview at the top off CNN.com, go check it out. It's pretty incredible. 12 minutes of recording, might drop off the site soon - so check it.
I also wonder how much longer it's going to take to fly flags half-staff for a week or two, across the nation. Not just the affected states.
I reiterate, you guys really should listen to Nagin in that interview if you haven't already. It's worth 12 minutes of your time.
Can you sum up the Nagin interview? I don't have sound on my computer at work.
Dallas uber alles
I think this is the entire transcript...
Edit: I just realized the transcript clips some of beginning of the interview...
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'
Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin
(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.
The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:
NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)
You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.
And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.
WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?
NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."
Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.
And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.
They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.
I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?
NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.
We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.
You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."
WWL: Who'd you say that to?
NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.
And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.
And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.
In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there.
So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.
WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?
NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.
Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.
I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.
WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?
NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.
WWL: Did the governor do that, too?
NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.
But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.
I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.
And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.
Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.
And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.
You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.
And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.
WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.
NAGIN: Really?
WWL: I know you don't feel that way.
NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?
You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?
And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.
WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.
NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.
Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.
You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.
And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.
WWL: What can we do here?
NAGIN: Keep talking about it.
WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?
NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.
I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.
Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.
WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.
NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.
< dead air >
WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.
NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.
WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.
jeez
Dallas uber alles
Nagin interview:
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...agin.intv.affl
new aerial orthophotography from NOAA:
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
Last edited by jsoto3; 02 September 2005 at 05:23 PM.
All i can say is what is a Mayor of a ruined city supposed to feel like? I can't fault him. The weight on his shoulder is heavier than most people have had to bear. He has to watch TV to see his fellow citizens neighbors perish. I would expect any mayor of Dallas to do if All of Dallas was decimated by a natural disaster.
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
Thanks jsoto. Good find.
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
I jumped to the NOAA site and went to the one area I've been to recently out of the region -- Bay St. Louis, where my son and I jumped in the bay. Even after everything that's been on TV and radio and the papers, I was still shocked -- I said "Oh my God!" right out loud.
The US 90 bridge over the bay isn't just damaged, it's gone -- as in, nothing left, just some pilings in the bay with no deck at all. At the corner of US 90 and the beach road -- now covered by sand -- there was a cute little gazebo on a private beach. It's now a mud flat, and the homes that owned it are gone. The houses behind them have boats in their back yards.
We were swimming last June near the city pier, a little ways south of the bridge. There's actually a chunk of the pier left -- the far end. The rest was carried away by the storm surge. There are more houses left there, though, thanks to a steep hill near the pier. Even so, the waves deposited sand three houses deep even at the highest point.
But to get an idea of what CNN means when they say "The town of Waveland has been washed away", you have to look at the pictures from futher up the Mississippi coast. The entire 4000x4000 high-resolution image shows complete destruction. One picture shows Buccaneer State Park, where we camped out and played in the wave pool and waterslide. There's not as much damage visible, since it wasn't a populated area, though if you know where to look you can see where the utility buildings have been ripped to shreds. The wave pool and the swimming pool are full of brown water. I was surprised to see the waterslide still visible, though... until I realized that the loops I was seeing were just the top half. Everything below the 20-foot storm surge has been ripped away.
For all this, I didn't really know the area. I can only imagine the shock and horror felt by those who spent more than 48 hours there, and now see the towns they knew wiped off the map.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
I was in Biloxi/Gulfport about 2 years ago and its an odd feeling knowing that its gone now.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
As a follow-up, the pres. proclamation link was made on 04 Sep to last until sunset 20 Sep for honoring the memory of the victims.
(Additionally, the flag is half-staffed for honoring Rehnquist within this same timeframe - technically until sunset on the 13th.)
This is one of the top links in Google News -- a view of our current situation from the other side of the pond. Interestingly, they quote the Dallas Morning News at the end.
September 07, 2005
Tragedy will test natural optimism of 'blessed nation'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...768672,00.html
By GERARD BAKER , US EDITOR
HOWEVER imperfectly they represent reality, simple images still best define events, at least in the public psyche.
Four years ago this week, the defining picture of September 11, 2001, was the flag: a hardy band of dishevelled firefighters hoisting the Stars and Stripes amid the debris of the World Trade Centre. It was staged, probably -- either a conscious or unconscious evocation of the famous Second World War picture of marines raising Old Glory atop Iwo Jima in 1945. But its authenticity didn't matter much. The vivid re-creation captured precisely the nation's mood at that moment: resilient, defiant, united.
Last week's defining image is strikingly different. It is of a black man, in ragged clothes, standing on top of an almost submerged New Orleans house, holding a sign that says: "Help Us". Unlike September 11's visuals, the image evokes helplessness, not resilience, despair, not defiance. It is a reproach, rather than an exhortation. His plight speaks of a nation's shame rather than its pride. His race and evident poverty depict not a united America but an unequal and fractious one.
Nothing in the past four years has come close to equalling 9/11 in significance for the way America sees the world. And nothing has come as close in determining the course of American political life.
But in the way America is viewed around the world, and even in its own self-image, the Katrina disaster may have come very close to matching that day. And its political consequences, still murky at this point, may well prove ultimately to be of equal significance. To the rest of the world the disarray and mayhem on display for most of last week in New Orleans offer powerful confirmation of the basic, unpalatable truths of American society.
They depict an essentially Hobbesian nation in character. Every man must fend for himself. The rich, unimaginably comfortable by global standards, can take refuge in their affluence. The poor, most of them from ethnic minorities, looking like exiles from the Third World, are left to sink and die. A government that does not really take seriously the very idea that it has a responsibility to help the disadvantaged. An Establishment so focused on pursuing wars abroad that it has neither the inclination nor the resources to fight disaster at home.
The violence on display in New Orleans last week supposedly offers a glimpse through the same prism into American society. Into the vacuum caused by administrative failure and insouciance pour muggers, looters, rapists and murderers.
Like all caricatures this account is deeply flawed. It ignores, first of all, the paradox that in this supposedly conservative nation and era, government has been expanding at its fastest pace in decades. Not just the military, whole departments have sprung up to protect, educate and assist Americans, especially in times of emergency. If anything, it may be that the bureaucracy of the various government departments responsible proves to have contributed to the tragedy, through a failure to co-ordinate local and central government efforts.
The idea that Government was uninterested because poor blacks were the main victims is also off the mark. The main responsibility for evacuating the residents of New Orleans lay with the local city government, headed by a black mayor and a black police chief. The unflattering picture of American society ignores, too, the outpouring of compassion that has followed the disaster, vastly outweighing the selfishness and criminality -- the many tales of New Orleanians who helped one another out of the hellhole, the millions of Americans opening their wallets and the many thousands opening their homes to evacuees.
And yet, like all caricatures, it surely captures a hint of the truth. Americans themselves have reacted with a national sense of shame to the images on display this week. There has been much grisly, partisan finger-pointing over the bodies of the dead. Republicans insist that it was the (Democrat-run) state and city governments to blame; Democrats say that it was all the Bush Administration's fault.
But what ordinary Americans agree on is that something, somewhere, went badly wrong. The consequences are likely to be large. Some, especially on the Left, see the end of an era of conservative ascendancy, with its emphasis on slimmed-down government (already, as noted, a thing of the past after 9/11) and foreign entanglements. Conservatives think the main story of the last week has been an indictment of government and bureaucracy -- whichever political party is in charge of it. As President Reagan liked to put it: "The most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' "
David Brooks, the neoconservative-inclined New York Times columnist, sees last week's events marking a "bursting point". They follow a grim four years for America of terrorist attacks, corporate corruption, recession and in Iraq the first serious military setback for the US in a generation.
All this may be contributing to a profound disgust that the institutions of American society have failed the people.
Brooks says that the national mood may be like that of a century ago when, after a similar series of natural catastrophes and man-made disasters, the progressive era of interventionist government was born.
This may be overwrought; it is not yet clear whom Americans will blame for the disaster of Katrina. They may in the end, being phlegmatic folk, not even blame anyone.
And yet what is clearly true is that these are unusually troubled times for a nation that considers itself uniquely blessed. The last 20 years of the 20th century were a halcyon period for most Americans. Economic growth accelerated, lifting even the poorest; the nation won Cold Wars and hot wars; technological change widened horizons in hitherto unimaginable ways.
But the past five years have piled tragedy upon loss upon failure. It is hard to believe, even in a place as optimistic as America, that this legacy will not shape the coming political era.
PRESS REACTION
'America is on the brink of a great social experiment, such as it has not seen, perhaps, since the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl. Social dislocation on this scale is scary'
Dallas Morning News
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
From the Dallas News Blog today:
The Last Time the US Lost a City: San Francisco, April 18, 1906
The earthquake struck at 5:13 AM.
By 7 AM, federal troops had reported to the mayor.
By 8 AM, they were patrolling the entire downtown area and searching for survivors.
The second quake struck at 8:14 AM.
By 10:05 AM, the USS Chicago was on its way from San Diego to San Francisco.
By 10:30 AM, the USS Preble had landed a medical team and set up an emergency hospital.
By 11 AM, large parts of the city were on fire; troops continued to arrive throughout the day, evacuating people from the areas threatened by fire to emergency shelters and Golden Gate Park.
St. Mary's hospital was destroyed by the fire at 1 PM, with no loss of life, the staff and patients having already been evacuated across the bay to Oakland.
By 3 PM, troops had shot several looters, and dynamited buildings to make a firebreak; by five they had buried dozens of corpses, the morgue and the police pistol range being unable to hold any more.
At 8:40 PM, General Funston requested emergency housing - tents and shelters - from the War Department in Washington; all of the tents in the U.S. Army were on their way to San Francisco by 4:55 AM the next morning.
Prisoners were evacuated to Alcatraz, and by April 20 (two days after the earthquake) the USS Chicago had reached San Francisco, where it evacuated 20,000 refugees.
Of course, the technology of the day was fairly primitive, and the U.S. was a much poorer country. No doubt we could move more quickly today.
I'm concerned about the pumping of the toxic water for one location to another. And since I haven't seen much information on this I was hoping someone else might know some information. Instead of cleaning the water, it appears they are justing spilling the ecoli filled water into Lake Pontchartrain. There seems to be a real threat to more live in the making.
By the way, when does the movie come out?
Listen to the Dividing Line, Pirate Christian Radio, CARM, White Horse Inn and RTS University the most nowadays.....
Unfortunately, there's noplace else to put it. There's no way to treat the toxic waste before pumping it out of the New Orleans bowl. I was just reading/hearing about this at the NOLA.com site or else NPR (I forget which) -- the only other option would be to leave the water where is is.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Check this out as an alternative plan for New New Orleans, courtesy of googlesightseeing.com. Gold Coast City, Australia, has a large neighborhood configured so that every house is accessible both by road and by canal. Of course, these look like high-end homes, so this idea may be poorly suited to rebuilding the working-class neighborhoods that bore the brunt of the destruction.
Possibly due to the unusual geography, Google seems to have had trouble matching up the mosaic of images that make up the town. This view in particular bears an eerie resemblance to the aerial photos from New Orleans.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Lessons learned from New Orleans
Could a levee "breach" happen here?
You bet it could, flooding downtown, three hospitals,
West Dallas, South Dallas, the Mixmaster...
At left, 1908 Trinity River flood, Dallas
New Orleans is about to become a ghost town because the levees broke. Why did the levees break? Because funding budgeted by Congress was not deemed a "necessary project" by the Federal budget office, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB).
Levees like the ones around New Orleans — and around the Trinity River — are engineering feats designed to hold back vast amounts of water. The Trinity River levees are also managed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. The City of Dallas does not control the levees. The County does not. The State of Texas does not. The Corps does.
Protecting, maintaining and reinforcing these earthen barriers ... it's a big job.
The challenge is that the Corps cannot lobby for funding or communicate directly with the members of Congress for fear of reprisal by the OMB. Even if Congress earmarks dollars for flood control, funding is not granted unless the OMB says so (or, unless it is part of an "authorized" bill, a Congressional funding mandate).
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been hamstrung in New Orleans for years. They've known the funding they need for levee upkeep and did their best with what they had. Congress even approved additional funds for the New Orleans levees at one point. But, the OMB did not deem spending that money as a necessary expense.
The Trinity River flood component has never been recognized by the OMB as a necessary project.
The Levees on the Trinity were built for an 800 year flood event. With all the years of settling and upstream building, the City of Dallas now only has about a 500 year flood protection. With the right amount of rain in the right counties, we could be in for big trouble. The term "500 year flood event" can mislead some to think it means "500 years from now". We don't know when that "every 500 years" clock started. Perhaps in October of the year 1505? November, maybe? We don't know...
The Trinity flood basin extends west past Weatherford, all the way to Archer and Young Counties; north past Denton to Clay, Montague, Cooke and Greyson Counties; and south past Grand Prairie (and includes Joe Poole Lake). Every drop of rain that falls in this 30-county area runs through downtown Dallas. If the levees were to fail on both sides during a flood event, we would lose: all three major trauma hospitals (Parkland, Methodist, and Baylor), all of downtown, Oak Lawn, and West Dallas, plus large portions of Oak Cliff, South Dallas, and East Dallas.
We would look like New Orleans.
Given the ethnic and economic make-up of our lowest-lying areas, we would looks a lot like New Orleans, only rescue workers had better be bilingual.
We would lose the waste water treatment plant (which treats much of the waste water for the Dallas suburbs as well). We would probably lose most of our drinking water treatment plants. Since most of the electrical power lines for these areas cross or are inside the levees, or are underground downtown, we could expect to power in a huge part of the city. Look at what happened to Houston a couple of years back.
A former FEMA official was on CNN talking about this issue. He said that infrastructure in this country is the legacy we leave for future generations. Other priorities have taken place of the infrastructure improvements and building infrastructure. It took Congress more than two years to clear the transportation bill because the White House said it would veto any bill over $250 Billion (over 6 years). Even Republicans in Congress knew the need was at least $380 Billion.
The reason we keep looking at toll roads in Texas is we have no way to fund the needed roads and interstate system for Texas with the Federal money provided.
Ironically, there is currently a water bill that has been passed by the House and is waiting approval of the Senate (we have not had such a bill in five years). This bill will fund infrastructure for flood control. Every part of the country is facing similar infrastructure issues as Dallas and Texas ... and, of course, New Orleans.
Once the Senate approves this bill, perhaps the Office of Management and Budget will actually fund it.
^^ Good news and bad news for those wanting to preserve what's left of a "natural state" for the Trinity River.
Good news: Putting toll roads on top of the levees will probably be seen as a Bad Thing.
Bad news: If the Corps of Engineers says to cut down the 50 years' worth of growth in the "Great Trinity Forest" to prevent flooding, people are going to show up with axes and chainsaws instead of protest signs.
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals... Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. - B. Obama 1/20/09
Is that an article or your thoughts? If an article, please post the source. Thanks.
This was in the times-picayune yesterday. Seems there are quite a few other articles with the same tone and about the natural disaster comment.
We're counting on you, Mr. President
by The Times-Picayune
Thursday August 27, 2009, 6:58 PM
http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.s...mr_presid.html
Does Obama care about New Orleans?
"New Orleans, hit so hard by what so many (including President Obama in his Sunday interview with the local newspaper) still see fit to describe, mistakenly, as a natural disaster, is making remarkable progress, while the agency that so disastrously failed at building a protective system mandated by Congress -- the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers -- may be making some of the same mistakes in rebuilding that system. And the White House, for the second consecutive administration, seems not to care."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/28/she...ans/index.html
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