Good oneespecially at the pace they're moving
You are right about that..the parking lots can always go later. I just think they look like crap. Now that Victory, Uptown, and Downtown Dallas are taking off, maybe those surface lots for AAC will eventually go too. I hate them just as as much.Originally Posted by Tnekster
Well you know they won't get rid of the parking lots around the stadium right? Unless as part of the plaza you can get tailgating space or they have designated tailgating spots around the stadium, They're keeping the parking lots around the stadium for tailgating purposes. What ways do you think the Cowboys, Glorypark, and the city of Arlington could do to try and have the best Game Day experience there is to have? This includes traffic, activities, atmosphere, etc.
That depends on how much revenue a mixed use development would provide over a parking lot. Would the owners of that land really try to preserve "tailgaiting space" for Cowboys fans over something that might provide a steady stream of revenue throughout the year? Tailgating is fine but they have lots of parking lots to do that and not everyone wants to tailgate.
You know I just thought of a gameday atmosphere of a Texas longhorn game, and they don't have big huge parking lots around the stadium . They have parking garages, but on the way to the stadium around businesses, and parks they all sorts of tailgaters and parties going around. How many stadiums in the NFL don't use the huge parking lots. So if the city of Arlington wanted to buil around it, that would be cool. Maybe the Cowboys could have maintaned their original idea of having all the stuff around the stadium, like the museum and the hall of fame, restaraunts, etc.
Glorypark was scaled back from its original vision due to an owner wanting the surface parking lots. Maybe in the distant future that will change, but I don't see it even if Glorypark is a huge success. Glorypark will be developed in phases, so to judge its success will take some time. As for the parking lots around Cowboys stadium; look at what JJ is getting, and I do believe he is paying for the paving of the surface lots. Surface parking (the least expensive method) on land owned by the city. He keeps something like 75-80 percent of the profit of the fees charged for parking while the city gets the other. When Texas Stadium was opened in 1971 it was promised to area residents that much of the out laying parcels would be developed over time. Here the stadium sits decades later still isolated by a sea of unkept parking lots. JJ is interested in keeping the football experience, and tailgating is a huge part of it. This is why Irving is excited at the redevelopment of that site, they will see much more tax income from the redevelopment of the site once the current tenants move out. Much more then what the current tenant brings in.
Do you have a favorite football team?
The cowboys parking lots aren't going anywhere. Or at least anytime soon. Even after glorypark phase 2 is completed (if infact it happens), Jerry wants to keep his place viewable from Collins and it's too close to Randol Mill to put anything there. On the east side, glorypark is going to connect to the parking lot via a bridge. So, that section of the parking lot is for Glorypark and Stadium parking. It's not going anywhere unless replaced by parking garage. South of the stadium... well, I guess theres room.
An interesting idea from Patriot Place (a similar concept being developed next to Gillette Stadium outside Boston).
Rather than have a conventional ESPN Zone, the Patriots decided to partner with CBS to build a "CBS Scene" restaurant serving "upscale grill fare" and CBS programming. (No word on if one tv will be dedicated to showing endless "Everybody Loves Raymond" reruns)
Here's an idea of what it will look like:
More information in the Globe story: http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...p1=MEWell_Pos2
Might Tom Hicks have something similar up his sleeve?
^Will CBS Scene be as lame as watching a NFL game on CBS? I know it'll be a stretch, but if any channel can pull off crappy evening news, boring sports, low ratings, and mix it all into a restaurant, it's CBS!
By the power of greyskull!
From the article, they plan on having events for the Final Four, AFC/Pats football (obviously) and other CBS events. It looks like a glorified Planet Hollywood to me, but it just might work given its location.
FWIW, CBS is actually the HIGHEST rated network and has been for some time. CBS has a strong Boston affiliate (WBZ), so it might be interesting to see if they build a studio in there for use during the games or something. None of the other images on the site seem to show that.
Anyway, I know that Dallas is still without an ESPN Zone (apparently none have been built since 2001). I wonder if Hicks would leap at the chance to get the DFW ESPN Zone or if he might try to be a bit more inventive.
If anything's going to come to Glorypark it's either an ESPN Zone or a FOX Sports Grill, or maybe some developers can think of something unique.
CBS as high ratings and some good shows. Evening news is crap, and their commentators are crap, too.
It would have to be an ESPNZone for me to have any interest in going. If it's CBS or NBC, they can just count me out. I'll go to the Dave And Busters in Arlington Highlands. Another great sports bar I would like would be an Alice Cooperstown. Not sure if they have any other locations outside of Phoenix. Great restraunt/ Sportsbar.
I didn't realize this, but technically they started on this project. They're starting to move dirt around and prepare for the road that's going to be on the north side of Rangers Ballpark connecting to Six Flags and Nolan Ryan. I was wondering why I couldn't go down Nolan Ryan by the stadium, but I put 2 and 2 together.
Actually all of the new road work you see is for the new Cowboy Stadium- it has nothing to do with Glorypark...
Extending Road to Six Flags Dr to Nolan Ryan is all about Glorypark. They're doing that since Randall Mill is getting reduced to 2 lanes on the south side of the Ballpark.
Again, it has nothing to do with Glorypark.... This is all about the Stadium right now. They've been doing road construction in the area for about 8-9 months now. It'll certainly be a benefit to Glorypark- but the two are not related.
Copied from earlier in the the thread
I know all the other road construction, Baird Farm, Copeland, 30, etc, there is directly related to the Cowboys stadium, but extending Road to Six Flags from Ballpark Way to Nolan Ryan on the north side of the Ballpark is Glorypark related.Hicks Sports Group Chief Operating Officer Casey Shilts said the city has asked the Glorypark developers to not shrink Randol Mill Road from six lanes to two lanes until the Road to Six Flags is completed on the north side of the ballpark. And since the project is being constructed on Rangers parking lots, the multistory parking garages may be the first to go up.
That article makes it sounds Cowboy related
extending six flags has been apart of the "retail" plans for years around the Ballpark... it was on some drawings a long time ago. I would have no idea where to look for them though...
Just received the 2008 Rangers season ticket guide, and I think there is a new rendering of glory park on the front...
Here is a scan of the brochure.
Well, it's better than parking lots.
DAGNABBIT!
How exciting for A-town.
The guide also mentions "Rangers Alley", where Randol Mill Road will be a pedestrian walkway.
That place is going to be great.
It's going to be great for Arlington, and it's going to be great for North Texas. Even if it exists without a transit oriented, mixed use, new urbanist train station, Glorypark is going to be a fantastic pre/post event staging area. I completely agree that despite the relatively remote location and encumbering traffic congestion, this combination of amusement park, baseball stadium, football stadium and tailored shopping & entertainment center will move this Metroplex Midcity beyond the doldrums of a commuter communtiy.
Question: What happens to that illustration in 15 years if the Rangers want a new stadium in another Metroplex city (possibly Dallas)? Does the stadium remain the anchor to the entire development, or does it have a meeting with the wrecking ball?
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I've been wondering that myself.
I doubt that Dallas cares if they didn't want one of the most popular sports franchises in the world, which they could have had 2 years ago.
Another metro city could be a possibility, but I imagine that Arlington would pony up the money again for any improvements or a new dome.
I'd guess it will be determined by a couple things, whether or not the Rangers still suck, and if they're not so bad, then whether or not Ranger's owners recognize franchising brilliance to accept the $100+ million payment to allow another Pro Team to locate in Dallas. The lackluster attention baseball gets in North Texas would be immediately eliminated if prideful Texans were presented with the opportunity to chose between a Dallas team, and a Not-In-Dallas team. Take the market share payoff to fix-up The Ballpark with a next generation retractible roof (in this daydream, Dallas city and/or county coughs up the financial support to build a nice big multi-use retractible roof baseball stadium into the Convention Center Complex...).
Hick would be smart to sell the territory for an NL team for $100M plus, build a domed stadium for the Rangers, and REQUIRE that the new NL team can not build a dome...
I don't think that it would be a very smart move for Tom Hicks to move in 15 years, considering that he is funding Glorypark, gave Jerry some land for Jerry World, and owns other surrounding land in area. I think that part of Arlington is going to be Tom Hicks legacy.
Mark it down, Mark Cuban buy's the Marlins, moves them to downtown Dallas, builds a stadium, and that year they win the World Series. Now how embarrasing would that be for Tom Hicks?
They'd probably have to change the name from the Marlins to the Catfish, or something like that...
There is absolutely zero chance of another MLB team coming to Dallas, ever. It's that simple. The Rangers got pissy over a non-affiliated minor league team in Grand Prairie. You really think they'll let a major league team come to Dallas? It's NEVER going to happen.
money talks, especially to Hicks.
Depends on the ownership.
The Marlins aren't going anywhere. Baseballs biggest problem is that there are too many teams as is. I think they need to have 4-6 teams absorbed into the league, so that way it can be a little bit more competetive, and fun to watch.
The city of Dallas has already demonstrated that they have almost zero interest in professional sports franchises, so Cuban would have to almost fund his stadium with his own money, which is becoming almost unheard of these days.
Also, no matter what city they play in, they have a chance to win it. They've arleady won it twice within ten years, and rebuilt in between. They're currently rebuilding which puts them in the 2009 world series. They'll win. If only fans in Miami appreciated a well run baseball franchise.
The Marlins will likely go somewhere. That's why they're ownership is visiting cities. Its very likely that the State of Florida is going to help the Devil Rays new stadium after rejecting the Marlins. The Dolphins have already evicted the Marlins for the 2009 season when phase 1 of the Dolphin Stadium renovations are done. They have to go somewhere. You think MLB needs to absorb, obviously they don't.
Yes, The City of Dallas has zero interest in professional sports. That's why they didn't pay for part of the AAC..........................oh yeah, they DID. What gives you the impression they aren't interesting in professional sports? Nevermind the fact that every suburb in North Texas is looking for that one thing to make them famous for whatever reason.
Who says Miami doesn't appreciate them. This is NOT the issue. The issue was that the STATE of Florida didn't want to help build them the fanciest stadium in Major League Baseball history AND that the Dolphins want their venue to be football only and to have a retractable roof early next decade to compete with the slew of new stadiums in the NFL.
Although I know there is almost zero chance of getting a second MLB team in the area, something needs to be done because a great baseball state like Texas not being able to keep a ballpark half-full is a joke. The product on the field is getting worse and the owner and GM keep complaining about the price of players being too high. I know its easy to spend other people's money, but the Rangers either need to spend the money like a large market team or move to a small market. Sorry for the rant, I'm just a little pissy on the subject I guess.
If the league has a chance to get a guy like Cuban involved in MLB, I could very sell see them telling Hicks to shove it. It's not as though Hicks has a lot of friends or respect in the league as it is.
And maybe a little competition in the market would do Hicks some good.
MLB wants Cuban as far away from the game as possible... When there was early talk about him buying the Cubs everyone was saying there was no way the owners would approve it...
Well, MLB has approved him... want to try a different reason?
http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/13/comm...ion=2007121313
I like the new pictures, it looks like fun
06:56 AM CST on Friday, December 21, 2007
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com
Victory Park has given a big boost to Dallas' center city with its luxury residences, W Hotel and exclusive retail stores.
Glorypark in Arlington may do even more for the suburbs.
Victory Park and Glorypark are near sports venues, and Dallas investor Tom Hicks is involved in both. At first glance, they even look alike in drawings.
The Glorypark complex south of Interstate 30 is planned as one of the country's most ambitious sports-anchored developments. The combination of shopping and entertainment, hotels, housing and office space is expected to cost more than $1 billion to build.
But Glorypark's developers – Hicks Holdings and Ohio-based Steiner + Associates – want their 70-acre project to have an even wider appeal than Victory Park.
Mr. Hicks, who's a major partner in Victory Park, explained one big difference.
"The personality of the developments will be that Glorypark will be more retail, and Victory will be more condos and residential," he said. "That reflects the downtown environment vs. suburban."
Rivaling a mall
With almost 1.2 million square feet of retail and restaurants, Glorypark will have as much shopping as a regional mall.
At the 75-acre Victory Park, more than 4,000 residential units are planned, most of them in high-rise buildings.
Glorypark's planners are also aiming for a more diverse, widespread customer base.
"Victory is more of a sophisticated part of a broader downtown urban area," Mr. Hicks said. "We recognize that Glorypark has a more regional draw."
Victory Park hosts two major league teams but only one venue, American Airlines Center. Glorypark has an edge with two sports anchors, the Rangers Ballpark at Arlington and Dallas Cowboys stadium.
"It's probably the only mixed-use development I can think of in the country that will interface with two world-class sports venues," Mr. Hicks said.
Victory has proved the appeal of sports-centric projects, he said. "It creates an environment that is very attractive where young people like to be around."
Industry analysts agree that Glorypark and Victory are different flavors.
"The one in Arlington will have much broader appeal," said Rich Hollander of Fort Worth-based retail consultant Buxton Co. "I didn't used to think retail would work in that location, but now I think they are getting it done.
"It's more like a super-regional project," he said. "There won't be anything like this in the Southwest."
Slow progression
Victory Park and Glorypark have taken longer to build than originally planned.
Victory developers wanted to start opening buildings in 2000, but that didn't happen until last year.
Mr. Hicks began planning Glorypark in the late 1990s, but the project is just getting under way.
"Any development in today's world takes awhile to do," Mr. Hollander said. "It takes a lot of courage to go out and try and do one like this."
Both developments are anchored by hotel-condo skyscrapers.
The 33-story W Dallas Victory Hotel & Residences, which opened in 2006, was an instant Dallas landmark. A planned 43-story hotel-condo tower will be anchored by a Mandarin Oriental hotel.
Arlington skyline
At Glorypark, Hicks Holdings and Steiner + Associates are creating their own skyline with a 36-story Westin Hotel tower that will have 300 rooms plus 85 luxury condos. An 18-story Aloft hotel next door will have 140 hotel rooms and 70 residential units.
"We are building a town," Mr. Hicks said.
Architect Jeff Gunning is with the Dallas office of RTKL Associates, which did the master plan for Glorypark.
"We are building a little town center in a part of Arlington that didn't have one," Mr. Gunning said. "Victory is a higher-density place and adjacent to downtown.
"Glorypark is more spread out," he said. "Most of it is five-story buildings."
From the beginning, Victory Park's developer Hillwood planned a neighborhood of towers that would extend Dallas' central business district.
"This is an urban neighborhood, and it's going to be high-density," said Hillwood's Bill Brokaw. "The goal with the master plan is to serve as a premier office location for corporate relocations in addition to companies that want to stay downtown rather than move out of the core."
The first towers built at Victory housed residential space, but Hillwood is now ramping up plans for more offices.
After partnering at Victory Park and developing Glorypark, Mr. Hicks is moving ahead with two other sports-related real estate developments.
Elsewhere ...
In Frisco, Hicks Holdings is developing land next to the Dr Pepper Ballpark.
"We are about to unveil our first office building in left field and a residential development in right field," Mr. Hicks said.
And in Liverpool, England, where Mr. Hick co-owns the soccer team, he's planning a mixed-use project on the site of an old stadium.
"That will be more like Victory than anything else."
I like the new photos. If Arlington could just get some mass transit, this city could finally start rising above places like Plano.
Wow Hicks copying victory park he couldn't come up with something different the look is so similar the same formula almost. Who are his architects .
Looks really nice, I think. Glad to see new two high quality, well planned districts emerging.
Times weighs down on you like an old, ambiguous dream. You keep on moving, trying to slip through it. But even if you go to the ends of the earth, you won't be able to escape it.
Haruki Murakami
Hicks is quoted in yesterdays DMN as this is a seperate project, different uses, different market...
Now, over in Liverpool, he is copying Victory Park.
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