Reply With QuoteHicks and co. are sure having a hard time figuring out the target market(s).
What will be interesting to see if the Dallas Icon project moves forward and this one remains largely un-realized besides the Hotel they are supposedly getting. Both projects are kinda similar except the Icon project is definitely targeted to luxury brands and shoppers while the Arlington project is supposedly more middle income targeted.
Hicks and co. are sure having a hard time figuring out the target market(s).
Don't want to further break your heart but I think they took down the big picture hanging with the other developments along the windows at the RTKL office here my building in Downtown Dallas. So much for that Westin...Originally Posted by chrismisquez
They might be better off developing the site with a slew of youth baseball fields. Make it the Field of Dreams and one-up Jerry for trying to persuade established games to move there...like the little league world series. As retail/restaurant/apartments/hotels become the better highest-and-best-use, Hicks could just plow over the fields that get in his way and leave the ones on the periphery. A first hotel would actually fit in nicely with this concept.
It's kind of like leasing land for an auto dealership until the part of town becomes more gentrified, then selling to some silly condo developer.
Also, if Hicks can get Jerry to pitch in, they could build a giant moving walkway from Jerry World, thru Glorypark, past the ballpark and eventually to Six Flags. Or even better, a SkyTram, like the State Fair of Texas. You could push a button in each gondola that would de-link you from the main system to your desired venue. Weeee, this sounds fun! All the excess land just doubled in value!
Arlington,
Please see attached joint memorandum from Jerry Jones and Tom Hicks re: development.
Sincerely,
Dallas
DAGNABBIT!
shouldn't that be the other way around sine Arlington now has THE DALLAS COWBOYS...i mean, thats all you really need.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
I like seeing the Cowboys stadium there.
Would they be expanding I-30 through Arlington without the Cowboys coming. Maybe,... in a couple years down the road they would have.
Would the enhancements of Johnson Creek have begun without the Cowboys coming to town?
Did I mention a Superbowl, Final Four, NBA All-Star game, A&M vs. Oklahoma, Cotton Bowl, etc.
Do you mean to tell me that you would be absolutely astonished if the property around the stadium gets developed within the next 10 years?
The AAC is the first sports venue in the Metroplex to successfully attract development. The old Ranger stadium, the new one, the old Cowboy stadium, Lone Star Park, and Reunion Arena have not been catalyst for development. Having said that, A-town is where I grew up, and even though I voted against the stadium deal just before moving away, I wish my home town the best.
The thing that screws Arlington is that you have so many cities that are wanting people to stay in their hotels. You have the Gaylord Texan, Las Colinas Four Seasons, Southlake Hilton, and Dallas and Fort Worth. So if this recession last until late 2010 what will Arlington have to show. You know the Gaylord, W Hotel, and the Joule are going to be hosting Super Bowl parties probably bringing in celebrities and rappers. So for every big event that Arlington has they are going to have to fight tooth and nail to keep sales tax revenue.
When has an arena or stadium received the same level of publicity as Jerry World? My point is that there are a combination of things going on that enhance the stadiums ability to spur growth. The construction on I-30 will allow traffic to flow easier, and it just looks a lot better than it used to. Johnson Creek will no longer be just another creek. It's actually going to be visually appealing. Then there is the Jerry World. Development will come. Not just because of the Cowboy stadium, but for the whole package that comes with the stadium.
I understand that people are going to be staying at everyone else's hotels. You have to remember that not everybody is looking for a 4 or 5 star hotel to stay. Those who aren't might choose to stay in Arlington for the night. I'd be willing to bet that a hotel is one of the first major developements to come to the entertainment district.
I'm not naive to think that it will be here tomorrow, but I'm also not naive enough to compare Jerry World to the old Arlington Stadium, Lone Star Park, or Reuinion Arena.
You may not be naive enough to compare it to Arlington Stadium, Lone Star Park and Reunion Arena, but I am.
The overriding conceit of Glorypark is not cutting-edge development or even the amorphous term "JerryWorld". It's about a sport played limited days of the year to a very targeted audience. You know, the same as all those other places you just dismissed. Retailers, restaurateurs and hoteliers know they can't make a living from just "game days". That is assuming from the outset, that you can train game goers to shop, eat and stay where you tell them to anyway. So far I don't know anyone whose been successful doing that... anywhere. And I doubt Jerry Jones will live long enough to ensure this vanity production is EVER fully staged. After all, it's about MAKING money, not spending it.
Now if JerryWorld is going to have games 365 days a year, or have players roaming the streets signing autographs and tossing balls with adoring fans I'll rethink my logic. Especially if he throws in the cheerleaders and a dancing waters show. But landscaping along one creek and making the highway look and move better does not constitute a full-time destination of any description. It IS and will be a stunning stadium. But to pitch it as some sort of Acropolis that will someday define the center of the DFW universe is misguided.
We should all count ourselves lucky that the Glorypark Grand DeLuxe shopping center didnt happen. There's no doubt in my mind that Hicks' property could host a wildly successful destination-entertainment oriented development, but the initial focus must consider the people living within few miles of the development.
When Glorypark was unveiled, it was all caught up in a wierd Dallas-everything-upscale-luxury fad. A new shopping center in Arlington must be primarily focused on customers living within three miles of the development. Shoppers living withing three miles of Glorypark would be difficult to capture as heavy purchasers of high end retail; shoppers living in the rest of the Metroplex would be almost impossible to include as even one-time highend retail customers.
I disagree with you somewhat on this... I worked in this area for about 10 years, and I can tell you there is a huge business population during the week. At Lincoln Square, places like Gap, Bath & Body etc... were always doing brisk business during lunch. Also, just on the north side of 30 there are actually quite a few affluent neighborhoods- actually a pretty nice part of DFW... I agree that high-end wouldn't work well- but I think a Southlake Town Square ot Watters Creek type development would work...
I can't argue with you about that.
Texas Rangers will have 81 home games a year.
Dallas Cowboys will have 8 regular season games a year.
Six Flags over Texas is open many days of the year.
The Rangers/Cowboys stadiums do a lot of tours throughout the year.
Special events at the Cowboy Stadium (concerts, college football, basketball, high school football?)
Your right... but it does add to the bigger picture. Let's recap...
Rangers Stadium
Cowboys Stadium
Six Flags
Tourism
Highway Improvements
Much improved landscaping
That is what makes the idea of Gloryparks success legitimate. I agree that the whole high end retail idea may have been thought of in the back room of some hookah lounge.
I do think that bars, nightclubs and restraunts would be a good idea. IPic is a unique restraunt that people might show up to go to on there own and without attending a game. Kind of like Dave & Busters. Not everybody will want to go out to eat after the game, but there are some who would. Even if it is a significant minority, it's still a lot of people. Keep in mind that you don't have to go to a game to eat at the restraunt.
I would say a more accurate description of what they are trying to pitch it as would be "The Tourism Capital of The DFW Metroplex" and a legitmate tourist destination in the US.
Last edited by chrismisquez; 05 December 2008 at 02:39 AM.
I rest my case.
Actually, Hicks could create a nice little neighborhood of townhomes if he created it connecting to the chelsea park townhomes, because those look nice. Also I do think the development around the stadiums need to be pure entertainment, restaurants, maybe fit in an aquarium or museum, because I think Lincoln Square is coming back with some nice shops. So leave the shopping to lincoln square, Arlington highlands, and the parks. The area around the stadium should be the ultimate FUN CENTRAL. Bars, restaurants, bowling alley,etc.. I'm kind of picturing a French Quarter/Riverwalk atmosphere. FUN FUN FUN that's what it should be.
Agreed ^^^^^^
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
Could you imagine a riverwalk between Jerry World and the Ballpark? Offices on top of retail/restaurants. All the sports vendors could have local offices there (there are plenty I'm sure), you could have lots of bars, a Lucky Strike, a Bob's Steakhouse, a Gilley's type country bar, an amphitheater, some kind of Hall of Fame headquarters, a baseball/football instructional sportsplex, riverboats....and yes, a hotel or two. Limit the retail, but load up on the fun, food and drink.
you could have an ESPN The Zone bar and grill. With the Creek already running through there, i dont know how you could do a river walk.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
I think that if nothing exist before to draw people sports venues alone can't make it happen. I think they can be a compelling ingredient to add to an existing mix however. In the end if Glory park or AAC Victory Park are to do well they have to find something that brings people to them when no games are being played.
In fact I would say sports venues can even have a negative effect on retail --- during basket ball season i stay away from the Hooters in Dallas because i am afraid of getting caught up in all the traffic. I don't check to see if the game is in town I just don't go...
I guess the only way to find out is to contact the Hooters, and ask what business is like on game days. ...but I'm too lazy to do that. I'm sure somebody might take up the challenge.
It's a bit crowded before and after games, but otherwise it's not too bad. Actually before, during, and after Stars games it's not all that busy (this year). So feel free to go grab some "wings".
^Kind of like the Stars game last night. About 3/4 full, not much activity on the plaza or streets. Getting in and out of the area was a breeze. Kind of disappointing, but the game was good.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb...ory?id=4852837
Source: Sale of Rangers nears $570M Comment Email Print Share
By Richard Durrett
ESPNDallas.com
A group headed by Pittsburgh attorney Chuck Greenberg, called Rangers Baseball Express, has a deal in place to purchase the Texas Rangers from owner Tom Hicks, Hicks Sports Group announced Saturday night.
A sale price was not announced, but a source said the price tag was under $570 million, which includes the team, the lease at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington and approximately 153 acres of real estate around the park. The real estate portion of the agreement was part of a separate transaction, which transfers most of the land controlled by Hicks around the ballpark and Cowboys Stadium to the Greenberg group...
Which leaves Hicks with 42 acres for much of Glory Park. The photo in this link shows 71 acres developed. I assume Greenberg/Ryan were sure to keep land for parking and parking garages under their control.
http://www.steiner.com/images/_downl...%20reprint.pdf
Glorypark will not happen!!!!!
interesting, in the article it states the the new cowboys stadium is "slated to host the 100 year rivalry game between the Texas Longhorns and the Oklahoma Sooners."
Funny, I never saw that announcement. In fact, UT and OU administrations have said that their first choice is to stay at the Cotton Bowl. Only other alternative would be to move the games to a home and home series.
Glorypark is dead and will never gain traction....
Former development partner sues Tom Hicks over land near Rangers Ballpark
11:12 AM CST on Thursday, January 28, 2010
From Wire Reports
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n1.b0fc0f.html
A former real estate development partner of Texas Rangers owner Tom Hicks is suing him over who owns a portion of the land near Rangers Ballpark in Arlington – land included in the proposed sale of the baseball team.
Steiner + Associates, a Columbus, Ohio-based firm Hicks began working with more than five years ago, is asking a state district judge in Tarrant County to determine who has rights to 45 acres that was to be the site of Glorypark, a planned $510 million, 1.3 million-square-foot shopping, hotel, entertainment, office and residential development around the stadium.
The development was shelved in 2008. The suit was filed before Hicks announced a deal to sell the Rangers.
Pending approval by current team owners and Major League Baseball, the team's ownership could change by April 4.
As part of the sale, 153 acres or the development rights on land now held by Ballpark Real Estate LP will be transferred to the new owners.
Arlington owns some of the land in question. As part of its master agreement with the Rangers, the city agreed to convey the land to the Rangers owner when it was ready to be developed.
Steiner's lawsuit asserts that Glorypark Town Center LLC is 75 percent owned by Hicks' Ballpark Real Estate LP and 25 percent owned by Steiner's Arlingtonpar LLC and that Steiner is still entitled to its stake in the Glorypark land.
Hicks told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on Tuesday that the suit has no merit and will not prevent the sale of the team.
Its really unfortunate that Glorypark never happened, but I'm still optimistic that in the future when the economy stabilizes, that something will still be built around the ballpark.
I think a new term should be coined for these "master planned developments". Dallas has had such bad luck with twin towers becoming singular, phase ones becoming phase "onlys", and other "pies in the sky" which devolve at the "mud pie" or parking lot level. Master planned? How about "Crap shoot devised"?
Give me a break, Sterling. You act as though this is singularly, unique to Dallas. Since your in Manhattan, why don't you give the Donald or Tishman-Speyer a ring. I bet they could make your hair stand on end with their colossal failures.
I don't give a shit about how other cheaters swindle their public, lie to the their vinvestors, and then don't deliver what they promised. It does disappoint me when they take little or no responsibility for the deal gone bad... here!Give me a break, Sterling. You act as though this is singularly, unique to Dallas. Since your in Manhattan, why don't you give the Donald or Tishman-Speyer a ring. I bet they could make your hair stand on end with their colossal failures.
My humblest apologies. I failed to understand your personal disappointment. I am relatively certain there was no one involved in this "colossal failure", who remained unscathed.
Most deals never happen. There's too many variables. This is not unique to Dallas.
Actually, it wil be interesting to see what happens here. I am assuming Greenberg now will own the immediate parking lots and Hicks will own all else. Is there a joint venture development for both land ownership groups? I hope so, or the Hicks land will be almost worthless, unless it is a hotel site.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfa...dead_proje.php
The reason for the suit: RTKL and VCC say they haven't been paid for their work on planning, designing or constructing "the aborted" Glorypark, and they want somewhere in the ballpark of $7 million. And, no, this isn't associated with the other Glorypark lawsuit filed by Steiner, the developer suing Tom Hicks over a piece of the land near the Ballpark. This is a whole 'nother ballgame -- and Steiner, matter of fact, is among the defendants named in the brand-new suit, along with Tom Hicks, Hicks Holdings and the Texas Rangers Baseball Partners.
Texas Rangers owner Tom Hicks sues former partner in failed Glorypark development
08:02 AM CDT on Friday, April 2, 2010
By SANDRA BAKER / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n1.c3792b.html
Texas Rangers owner Tom Hicks is trying to recover millions of dollars from his former Glorypark development partner, saying he would have never put money into the project if it had been truthful about its progress.
Hicks accuses Steiner + Associates of Columbus, Ohio, of fraud and breach of fiduciary duty, saying Steiner made "misrepresentations and omissions" about financing.
The accusations are in a counterclaim to a lawsuit Steiner filed in January against Hicks. Steiner's suit claimed a 25 percent ownership in Glorypark, a failed 1.3 million-square-foot shopping, hotel, entertainment, office and residential development, and seeks control of 45 acres near Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.
In an e-mail response this week, Steiner + Associates principal Yaromir Steiner said that Hicks and his representatives were fully informed and that Hicks himself worked on financing and attended monthly planning meetings on the project.
According to Hicks' suit, the development began to unravel within months of being announced in mid-2006, when a "primary investor" backed out. But Hicks and Steiner, the suit says, plowed ahead, taking control of land Arlington contributed to the development and asking the project's architecture and construction firms to work on plans even as funding was questionable.
In his suit, Hicks said he "trusted and relied" on Steiner to make the project happen by pre-leasing most of the retail space, a key to obtaining financing. "In retrospect, however, it is clear that the trust that [Hicks] placed in Steiner was misplaced," the suit says.
The architect, RTKL Associates, and the construction firm, Vratsinas Construction Co., have sued Hicks and Steiner, seeking payment of $8 million for their work on Glorypark.
Lies, Lies, Lies......They are all Lies!!!!!
Lies, Lies, Lies......They are all Lies!!!!!
Has the ownership of the Glorypark real estate been figured out yet?
In the saga of stadium induced increased economic activity for host communities, the inglorious remains of GloryPark is still the only hope Arlington has for a significant boost in retail/entertainment activity above and beyond what the local population could sustain. One of the reasons Cowboys Stadium is so big is that it makes room for every possible sales opportunity while a captive audience in attendance. The most appealing thing in Arlington for baseball fans seems to be less congested highways leading 1) back home or 2) to a hangout in Fort Worth or Dallas. After a day as Six Flags, you're ready for something easy and relaxing, no one wants to go mill around an entertainment oriented shopping center.
Hicks made very similar mistakes as did Perot with VictoryPark to plan an upscale development. In hindsight, these two billionaires look like morons to ignore the pre/post buying habits of event goers at an all inclusive stadium.
The best thing for the Glorypark real estate in Arlington is a gigantic hotel/entertainment complex like the Gaylord Texan with easy connections to both stadiums and Six Flags, and, critically, commuter rail connection to downtowns Fort Worth and Dallas. I'm just saying....
Maybe we've reached the top end of what a sports/entertainment venue can squeeze from a customer. I could almost see some sports generated revenue around the venue when ticket/food/parking prices were more reasonable. The event price per person is nearing triple digits. People have lost the inclination and wallet to spend more on top of that hefty amount. The owners went after more of the customers' wallets and took almost every bit leaving crumbs for other businesses.
Every day I find another reason to be thankful that ginormous thing is in Arlington and not outside my loft window where some supposed illuminati wanted to place it.
As much as I wanted the Cowboys to be back in Fair Park (and I wanted that a whole lot), I frequently think the experience set at Fair Park dodged a deadly bullet. One of the greatest attributes of any event at Fair Park is the setting itself, part of your good time is the atmosphere, and I think the ginormous all inclusive Cowboys Stadium could have wrecked that, maybe not, but it's a nice consolation whew.
On my North Texas wish list is that whoever/whatever ends up owning the anti-GloryPark property partners with Six Flags Corp, gets the company HQ returned to Arlington and expands the amusement park concept with a Warner Bros themed dealio that crosses Universal Studios Orlando with (any) Gaylord Hotel Compound and Busch Gardens.
Do they have the space for that?
Last edited by Trae; 20 June 2010 at 10:36 AM.
Probably not really enough for a full scale Busch Garden deal, but Six Flags & Arlington both need something amusement park related that operates year round.
I just found this interesting from the FW Dull-Agram's story about retail leasing in Tarrant County. Not much in the article, but the biggest decline in retail leasing in the county was north Arlington which is the part of town the stadium is located. With of all of the news about the money and people the stadium is bringing to Arlington, it still seems to be doing little to lure in new development and retail.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/06...ncy-soars.html
"The biggest declines were in north Arlington, where occupancy fell 12 percent to 78.1 percent"
Street Construction...
Not about the Cowboys or Arlington, but I thought it was relevant nonetheless.
http://blogmaverick.com/2010/09/10/t...ver-look-down/
The Fan Experience at Sporting Events – Never Look Down
Sep 10th 2010 11:13AM
There is a lot of discussion these days about the expectation that ticket sales at NFL games will decline for the 2nd year in a row. The most common reason given ? HDTV. Who would’ve thunk that High Def TV would have such a huge impact on the sports world. But I digress.
There is no question that all sports, but particularly football, are impacted. Given the choice between freezing your ass off at a December or January game or sitting with a cold one in front of your new Big Screen, there better be a damn good reason to get off that really comfy couch in order to pack up and go to the game. So what is compelling and unique enough about attending a game that makes it worth the effort ?
....
Tighten the female dog!
Regarding the move from Irving to Arlington...it is interesting to see new apartment construction booming in Irving, while things in Arlington are slumping.
I know some blamed the freeway construction for the slump around the stadium, now that it's finishing up, we'll see if the area improves. However, because of my job, I'm in that area often now. From what I can see, the area around the Ballpark, Cowboys Stadium, Six Flags, and that entire Colllins St. corridor is getting worse, not better.
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