I misread your comments then. I thought you were referring to me when saying "density" means people with money. Retracting claws. I'm rather testy today, huh?!
I'm sorry I didn't realize that you're the District 10 council representative.Originally Posted by LH_Newbie
And, PS- this is not about YOU. It's about the way the city planners and city council keep glomming onto ideas for Dallas that are not 10, 20 years away, but more like so far away we won't see it our lifetimes. And absolutely, you can mark my words, no city councilman wants density anywhere in Dallas for poor people. We call those projects. What was "visioned" at the Forward Dallas charrettes all over town three years ago (and kinda sorta pushed by the Real Estate Council and the City planners) was density, density and more density. And that idea was all about high-rise condos overlooking creeks and rivers and with great views of the skyline. Well, the ironic thing was that at the Vickery Meadow meeting, which was very lightly attended by the public surrounding the immediate neighborhood, was a vision for high-rise condos along this very creek that is getting paved over. Nobody wanted big box retail, but everybody thought density was great. Well, Vickery Meadow was already the MOST DENSE neighborhood in the city at the time! And that's what people were constantly complaining to me about. But here we all were putting little density bingo cards all over the map along the natural features.......
That's why I say that council people- especially council people- since they don't seem to know anything but what their OWN EMPLOYEES tell them, want the great shiny things in their districts, like a West Village or a Park Lane Place, but no, they do not want density when it's poor people- that's why Timbercreek was bulldozed.
And you can go and talk to every single board member of that PID over there and they will all sit around on their smug asses and say with a straight face that Timbercreek was full of high crime, made the crime stats in the PID go up, had all kinds of complaints, was an eyesore and needed to go, when the reality is that none of it's true. Timbercreek was a well managed property. There are at least three dozen other apartment properties in Vickery Meadow, most of them close to the new schools, that need to go. Timbercreek just had the fortunate distinction of being on the edge, close to the redeveloping Medallion Center and it probably made the most economic sense. But just 500 feet away inside Melody Lane, there are at least six apartments that could stand to be razed and somebody in planning should drive a new street through to connect back over to Fair Oaks. It's a stupid street.
I misread your comments then. I thought you were referring to me when saying "density" means people with money. Retracting claws. I'm rather testy today, huh?!
One could argue that as higher density projects continue to be built, maybe it will no longer be underprovided by the market, and thus more affordable to us poor saps with less than $500,000 in our housing budgets.
And is it so wrong for someone to be planning for 20 years in the future?
Wait a minute...Vickery Meadow was built in the late 70s, early 80s. It was then, and continues to be today, Dallas' densest neighborhood. In its heyday, VM was THE place for everyone who was anyone in Dallas to see and be seen. It was the happening place, it was the party place, it was cool, trendy, it had location, it was just great. Especially for the young and single crowd.Originally Posted by TheMapman
Those developers then weren't planning for the future, they were cashing in on an over-inflated boom. No developer "plans for the future" of any city; the only future planning they do is to benefit their their own future wealth. Don't kid yourself. Look at VM now. Pitiful, neglected, high crime, urban blight, and the things that are hoorayed about on this forum is when an old ugly apartment building full of poor immigrants gets knocked down to make way for a newer shinier mixed use development with condos that will start selling at $500,000. If those developers were "planning for the future" in VM, then they should be tarred and feahtered and run out of town and shown as an example of how NOT to plan for density in a city.
There has to be a middle ground in Dallas for people who want to live in an urban setting and who also can't afford to buy a overpriced new condo and right now, that middle ground is in buying a house in a close-in neighborhood or buying a home in a suburb. Condo builders in the urban areas in Dallas are not interested in building for the 30-something crowd who might be able to afford something in a price range of $125k - $250k (other than a 500 sq/f crackerbox...what a ripoff)
As I stated in a previous post, this is not NYC. We don't have 8 million people living inside our 42.5 square miles of city limits, most of which is hardly "urban". There are 6 million people in our region. We are not at a point where we can sustain much density. Even with our population set to increase, Dallas again competes as a region when it comes to trying to justify density. Right now the only way we are going to increase density in the city is by building over inflated high dollar townhomes and condos in trendy areas and populating them with hip, young urbanistas who want to live an urban lifestyle. Density in other, older cities didn't happen because planners planned it that way. And one day these young, hip, trendy urbanistas will grow up and realize that, "hey, I can afford to buy a whole 1,800 sq/f house without a roommate and with a big yard in a cool neighborhood that's not too far away from downtown...why the hell am I paying $3,000 a month to live here?"
Time will tell if overpriced condos will get to a point where they are more affordable to the average guy, but we do have some history to rely on. It's taken 30 years to get to a point where investors are finally interested in investing in Vickery Meadow and they seem to be doing the exact same thing that was done there 30 years ago. It's going to take the US a longtime to recover from this housing meltdown and building more multi-family housing at inflated prices isn't going to do much good in the near future for neighborhoods that have been struggling like VM.
I've grown to be more cynical and cautious over the recent past few years and less trusting and naive. I'm starting to grow slightly paranoid by the people who work at 1500 Marilla and more prone to dreaming up conspiracy theories. It happens to be best of us. Hell, for all I know, Forward Dallas (read: City planners) pushing density on us poor dumb schleps just so they could *wink wink* tell their gods that they worship over at the Real Estate Council that, see, the public really does support more development in Dallas, in fact, they're practically begging for it!
Last edited by trolleygirl; 29 February 2008 at 11:44 AM.
Heard on the news this morning that demolition begins tomorrow (Tuesday).
It is reported that the place is full of stray cats.
Originally Posted by dallastx75206
Well, they have re-done Park Pointe- Better known as Serendipity Apts. Top Golf- He spent over millions of dollars
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
Drove by yesterday, looks like the buildings are going down as we speak... maybe half of the complex is gone now.
Gawd, is completely destroying the natural features of this site to build an friggin' Walmart really the best that Harlan Crow and the City Council can come up with?
Oh my goodness - Scott. I've never been back in that development, but the pictures of the trees and creek are absolutely gorgeous - I can see what attracted you. Let's pray this gorgeous piece of property isn't destroyed by Trammel Crow. Speaking of which, do they have any sort of public development plans? Their web site is one of the worst I've seen. About as generic and vanilla as it gets and completely void of any information.
Wow! This is absolutely horrible. To fill in the creek, cut down all the trees for a Walmart and JCPenney's! I wonder what can be done about this at this point?
Has any of that happened yet, or are you just assuming things?Originally Posted by prspective
On the way home from work today, I wanted to see what all was happening after reading several threads on this website. I started at Royal and Skillman and drove south on Skillman to University (which is my neighborhood). I drove around the Timbercreek site a few times, went north on Shadybrook, turned onto Melody lane. Yes, some trees are already down, both on the Melody Lane side and on the Skillman side.
I was reading that Trammel Crow submitted some paperwork to fill in the creek. Are they really going to bury a natural asset like that? For what? A bigger parking lot? If so, they should be ashamed of themselves. Why all the secrecy over the development plans? I cannot find any renderings or info on the plans for that site at all. Does anyone have anything?
Here are some articles regarding Dallas Tree Mitigation Plans:
Hate to break it to you but Dallas doesn't have a tree "mitigation" plan; we have a tree "replacement" plan.Originally Posted by prspective
As I have been doing some research, I found this:
OFFICIAL ACTION OF THE DALLAS CITY COUNCIL
JUNE 13, 2007
Item 98: A public hearing to receive comments regarding the application for a fill permit and removal of the floodplain (FP) prefix from 1.24 acres of a 43.91 acre tract of land, zoned PD-742, located at the northwest corner of Skillman Street and Northwest Highway known as the Timber Creek Apartments Redevelopment, currently in the floodplain of Caruth Creek, Fill Permit 07-02 - Financing: No cost consideration to the City
What I am gathering is that no one has shown up in opposition to fill the creek. Exactly, who has been informed to know when something like this is up for discussion at city hall? Aren't homeowners usually informed? But in this case, this redevelopment is not surrounded by homeowners, but apartment rental complexes instead. So I am betting that at city hall this was introduced as just a "flood plain" and I am sure that the city council members had no idea what exactly they were voting on, as they had over 100 items on the agenda, and just voted in favor. I am giving a lot of points to Angela Hunt for voting against this motion.
I really am thankful to this forum and this thread. This new redevelopment is quite disturbing to say the least. We do not need to have another Walmart, considering there are 3 other Walmarts within 10 minutes of this property! Do we really need a JCPenny's and a Chic-fila there? Why can't the developer, Trammel Crow be a little bit more selective on who and how this property is developed? All I see is greed. How come there are not more groups and people doing something about this? Is Dallas City Hall really that flat? This is a true urban forrest with over 40 different bird species!
Then buy it yourself and build a nature preserve. If you don't have the money, quit complaining.Originally Posted by prspective
City Hall doesn't get to decide what business goes where. You're describing communism. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, comrade.
I emailed the developer the other day to ask if there were any artist renditions or publicly available plans so we could see what's planned for where or if there were any further announcements on who's moving into the new digs. The response I received was:
I'm hopeful we get some good tenants and also hopeful that it doesn't totally destroy the natural beauty of the property. Time will tell - I will follow up in about 6-7 weeks. I was pleasantly surprised to get such a quick and honest answer.Thanks for your interest in the site. As you noted below, we are talking to a number of retail tenants, but haven't signed any yet. I hope to have more info to release toward the end of summer. I'm a neighbor also (just to the south), so I can assure you I have alot of incentive to make sure this project is a benefit to the area - and it will be.
Feel free to touch base with me again toward the end of August. I hope there will be more definitive info then.
Haha, that response from the developer is funny.
Right how dare someone complain if the natural beauty of their neighborhood gets paved over for a walmart. If you are disturbed by this you clearly wish to overthrow our system of government. and you are an enemy of this country.Originally Posted by hamiltonpl
A lot of people showed up to voice opposition. SOS (Save Open Spaces) was against it. I think the Dallas chapter of the Sierra Club also opposed it. There were also some homeowners from the area and a whole bunch of Timbercreek residents as well as the apartment manager.Originally Posted by prspective
Also, there are homeowners across the street off Melody and the street that starts with an E. There are condos over there and some of the original homeowners are still there.
If you want to know why this particular tear-down happened, just ask the folks running the PID- this is exactly their idea of the type of redevelopment they envision for the area. They all want to eventually sell their properties for way more than they are worth, displace thousands of their residents and wipe their hands of the whole Vickery Meadow mess.
What is the story behind TXDOT and the median? And I hope it is not regarding the large triangle with all of the trees by the bridge.
location - Northwest side of Skillman and Northwest Highway
Last edited by prspective; 23 July 2008 at 09:21 AM.
Do you remember when TXDOT or the city or someone came along and mistakenly cut down all the trees on that NE triangle? They replanted, but it's just not the same. We all need to be keeping an eye out to make sure it doesn't happen again.
As far as medians go, I wish the police would stop people from turning into the apartments by going across the median on NW Highway. It's extremely dangerous. I have seen some horrific wrecks along there through the years and that was before people were bold enough to start crossing the median.
I've wondered if that median was intended to be crossed, since they built it with a mountable curb.Originally Posted by Lakewooder
Dallas uber alles
Zoning materials had them asking for a proper median opening on Northwest Highway (fine), and a channelized right-in / right-out driveway to the ramp between Skillman and NW Highway (ehhh, doubtful, but better than the pipe dream of full access driveway).
"Ultimately, helmet laws save a few brains but destroy many hearts."
- T.J. DeMarco
I don't believe it was originally. There's been so many layers of asphalt added over the years that the road surface is several inches higher.Originally Posted by Columbus Civil
I'm thinking it was originally grass -- trying to jog the memory.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was originally, but I don't recall grass there in the past 40+ years.
Original to what? 1784? Because I'm sure it was originally prairie grass.....Originally Posted by Lakewooder
Be nice it's close to fajitarita time...
I kind of thought that the trend with development these days was to preserve trees, creeks, etc....at least on the urban side. I was wrong appearantly. Out of all the complexes in that area (esp. north of Timbercreek), I found Timbercreek to be the most attractive...but I guess money talks.
Drove by today. Looks like they knocked down about 60% of the trees in the last day or two. Crews were continuing the work today (Sunday)...
These pictures have got to be the most nauseating and disturbing pictures I've seen. This property could have been a role model for how to design big box retailers in an urban setting with natural beauty. This could have been a wonderful challenge for the talented students at University Of North Texas - Engineering School; The University of Arlington - Architectural School; and Skyline High School Architectural Program. These students could have worked along side the developer and the architects to plan a spectacular new look for new urban design.
Dallas does not have a lot of natural beauty in comparrison to other large cities. When we have a site full of natural beauty, such as Timbercreek, we need to preserve it along with new development. This is not Plano, Frisco, McKinney, etc.
Nope, but it is Dallas. And, generally, Dallas does not appreciate nature or preservation.Originally Posted by prspective
- - - - - - -
When you have given nothing, ask for nothing.
Nothing left but the non-native crepe myrtles along the NW Highway fence.
"Moonscape" is an understatement.
^yeah I noticed that recently. they razed everything down to the ground. sad considering there' so much run down developed space to renew nearby in Vickery Place
I just drove around this redevelopment. From the Melody Lane side you can get a better perspective. It is beyond disturbing to see all of the trees gone from this land. It would be interesting to find out exactly how many trees were removed from this land.
As I drove slowly down Shadybrook onto Melody this beautiful Saturday morning, there were about 30-40 men lingering in the parking lot by Sam's waiting for the liquor store to open. They were yelling to me "Cuantos?". Is this same crowd going to be lingering around in the Walmart parking lot? If the crowd is anything like the Spring Valley crowd, that sure will be a nice greeting crowd for the entrance to all the new Lake Highlands redevelopments.
Just heard from someone at WellsFargo/Wachovia that there is going to be a Costco at Timbercreek. Not sure if this is True/Confirmed, but came froma pretty good source.
^^^That would be major news, and seems pretty unlikely to me. Wal-Mart/Sam's Club and JC Penney will be the anchors.
Well if they do any landscaping at all i don't know how they will get it to live ... they have got the site down to pure rock... I would hope that they have a larger requirement then normal to place trees... they were supposed to transplant some trees across the street to the Children s Theater.
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