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Thread: Southwest & American Airlines

  1. #951
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    I would not be surprised if this issue comes up in Dallas in a few years.
    Tighten the female dog!

  2. #952
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    ^I wish it was an issue today.

  3. #953
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    ^I wish it was an issue today.
    Never be too greedy. Southwest was smart by not playing the international bit during Wright Amendment negotiations. Assuming Southwest can fly internationally from Hobby, it is only then a matter of time people in DFW start asking, "Well, why can't we fly international from Love?"

    Southwest says, "Well we have this law.."

    And customers ask, "Can you change it?"

    Southwest responds, "You bet your sweet ass we can!"

    Meanwhile in a suburban campus in Fort Worth, AA barely reeling from DEFCON 1, the DEFCON 2 alarm goes off.
    Last edited by AeroD; 09 April 2012 at 07:18 PM.
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  4. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeroD View Post
    Never be too greedy. Southwest was smart by not playing the international bit during Wright Amendment negotiations. Assuming Southwest can fly internationally from Hobby, it is only then a matter of time people in DFW starting asking, "Well, why can't we fly international from Love?"

    Southwest says, "Well we have this law.."

    And customers ask, "Can you change it?"

    Southwest responds, "You bet your sweet ass we can!"

    Meanwhile in suburban campus in Fort Worth, barely reeling from DEFCON 1, the DEFCON 2 alarm goes off.
    By that time, those alarm bells may have relocated to Phoenix. ;-)

  5. #955
    Skyscraper Member TexasPlus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucy View Post
    Nice try. But wherever you want to check... the undeniable fact is that US government has officers and operations at Hobby Airport performing customs and immigration services, making it an international airport.
    Perhaps.... But looking at the Jeppsen Airport Information page for IAH, HOU, DFW, and DAL, on the line "Customs Facilities:" it says "Customs are available but require prior permission for use." on each of them.

    (Jeppsen publishes the charts used by pilots for navigation)

    From a prior life, I know that when landing at some foreign airports it is necessary to call/radio ahead to give officials time to arrive, otherwise one had to sit on the aircraft until they did.

    I would not be surprised if currently at HOU and DAL one needs to call ahead to scheduled Customs/Imagination officers meet a landing aircraft. This said, it's just a matter of when staffing is available at an otherwise Internationally qualified airport.
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  6. #956
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ctor-side.html

    By Terry Maxon/Reporter
    Apr. 9, 2012
    ...Southwest is pushing for the construction of a five-gate international terminal at Houston Hobby Airport. United Airlines, which operates international flights out of George Bush Intercontinental Airport, is against the Hobby project.

    "... it's my recommendation we support Southwest's request to begin the process of obtaining the necessary approvals to initiate international service at Hobby," Houston aviation director Mario Diaz said.
    Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?

  7. #957
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?
    Nah...Southwest is the common denominator.
    Tighten the female dog!

  8. #958
    Skyscraper Member TexasPlus's Avatar
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    Seems fine as is.
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  9. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?
    From an earlier Houston Chronicle story (see last part on page 2]

    War between United, Southwest looms over Houston

    The small scale of the proposed Hobby operation - up to 25 daily flights from five gates - poses no threat to the international operation at Bush, which offers flights from 35 gates.

  10. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ctor-side.html

    By Terry Maxon/Reporter
    Apr. 9, 2012


    Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?
    Not sure what you are asking. How many gates total at Bush? How many international arrival gates? How many international arrival gates in the rebuilt Terminal B?

  11. #961
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucy View Post
    Not sure what you are asking. How many gates total at Bush? How many international arrival gates? How many international arrival gates in the rebuilt Terminal B?
    I was wondering how many total international gates Bush airport will have after the new $700 million terminal is finished. I'm proposing that the volume limitations built into Hobby - 5 gates - will not be the deal that breaks the back of the Star Alliance at Bush Airport. And further, I propose that international service at Hobby will improve the overall, long term financial prospects of commercial passenger service providers in the Houston marketplace, while improving the product for customers.

    The same goes for DFW & Love Field. The Legacy Alliances will have as painful a transition as they choose to make it, but pairing the gigantic airport with the small airport is an enviable business situation operators and users should be allowed to enjoy in these two population centers, a significant advantage for Texas. And I gotta throw this in: hopefully DFW Airport will be able to secure an major hub for SkyTeam. Having all three of the global airline alliances operating a major hub in Texas would be huge; it makes sense, at least to me!

  12. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    I was wondering how many total international gates Bush airport will have after the new $700 million terminal is finished. I'm proposing that the volume limitations built into Hobby - 5 gates - will not be the deal that breaks the back of the Star Alliance at Bush Airport. And further, I propose that international service at Hobby will improve the overall, long term financial prospects of commercial passenger service providers in the Houston marketplace, while improving the product for customers.
    You are absolutely correct in your assumption about the relative size of the proposed facilities and service at HOU vs. that at IAH. (The more one learns, the more dishonest and ridiculous United looks). From the plans, it appears that the rebuilt Terminal B will have approximately 31 new gates capable of handling international arrivals (it looks like 10 of the new gates will not be international-capable). That is in addition to the existing 26 gates in Terminal E and 14 gates in Terminal D. PLUS, Terminal D may soon be expanded. Not sure how many additional gates will be added there.

    So we are talking about Bush Airport with approximately 71 international arrival gates (with even more planned) vs. Hobby Airport with FIVE. Poor little United Airlines is quaking in their boots. LOL (Oh, to be sure United won't have exclusive use of all 71 of those gates. They will have exclusive use of and access to only 57 of those gates.) So...

    United at IAH: 57 gates (with access to an additional 14 gates). Southwest at Hobby: 5 gates.

    FWIW, the Chronicle article linked by LoneStarMike above, stating that Bush "offers [international] flights from 35 gates, has the numbers wrong and demonstrate the reporter's cluelessness. (No, surprise there, we're talking about the Chronicle, the most clueless major-city newspaper in the free world.) Terminal D gates are numbered 1-12 and Terminal E gates are numbered 1-23. They just added the two numbers together. They did not notice/are not aware/are not curious enough to bother digging into the facts to find that there are a number of gate numbers that actually have two gates (e.g., D4A and D4B; E15A and E15B). Further, they incorrectly stated that international flights are offered from 35 gates. In fact, international flights can be offered from pretty much any gate at the airport. It is only flight arrivals that are restricted to certain gates.
    Last edited by Tucy; 17 April 2012 at 01:11 AM.

  13. #963
    Skyscraper Member TexasPlus's Avatar
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    Free hobby

    How can you help? Take a moment and log onto www.freehobbyairport.com to learn more about the proposal and to voice your support to City of Houston Leadership! It’s time to open up the skies. It’s time to FREE HOBBY.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  14. #964
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    Competition gives the airlines a bumpy ride

    By George F. Will, Friday, April 13, 6:16 PM

    DALLAS
    From his office window, Thomas W. Horton, in his fifth month as CEO of American Airlines, can see in the distance the Manhattan-size footprint of Dallas-Fort Worth airport, where American has 85 percent market share; it also has 68 percent in Miami, gateway to South America’s booming market. A few miles from here, however, sits one of the reasons why his company nevertheless entered bankruptcy recently — the corporate headquarters of Southwest Airlines.

    Southwest, the most successful of the “low-cost” carriers that proliferated after the 1978 deregulation of the industry, has been profitable for 39 consecutive years, while the rest of the industry was losing $60 billion between deregulation and 2009. Southwest, JetBlue and the others have 30 percent of the domestic market, up from 10 percent in 1999. The “two-tier” airline industry is, however, becoming a thing of the past. All carriers are going to have low costs because of what Horton calls “fear-based discipline,” a.k.a. competition.

    In the last three decades, there have been 192 airline bankruptcies. Not coincidentally, fares, adjusted for inflation, are 18 percent lower than in 2000. Forty years ago, a majority of Americans had never taken an airplane trip. Now everyone is more free than ever to move about the country, air travel having been democratized by liberating it from government.

    In 1938, the Civil Aeronautics Act codified a government-managed cartel. Reason magazine’s Nick Gillespie and Matt Welch report that, 34 years later, United’s percentage of market share had gone from 22.9 to 22, Eastern’s from 14.9 to 11.6 and TWA’s from 15.1 to 11.9. Why this bureaucrat’s dream of near-stasis? Because between 1950 and 1974, the Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) received 79 applications for startup airlines and rejected them all, believing that if even one passenger would be taken from an existing carrier, competition would be excessive.

    Intellectuals are often the last to learn things, so John Kenneth Galbraith, Harvard’s celebrity economist and one of liberalism’s pinups in the 1950s and 1960s, argued in his 1958 book “The Affluent Society” that modern marketing — advertising and other supposedly dark arts — is so powerful that big corporations could manufacture demand for whatever they manufactured. In 1958, Ford put all its marketing muscle behind the Edsel.

    Undiscouraged by evidence, in 1967 Galbraith, full of the progressive’s enthusiasm for the administrative state, asserted in “The New Industrial State” that the U.S. economy would soon be dominated by large corporations essentially immune from competition and hence from market turbulence. Four years later, Southwest launched its first flight. The “legacy carriers” — those that had operated under the CAB regime — were in for heavy weather.

    American bought TWA shortly before 9/11, adding capacity just when less capacity was suddenly required. American is the last of the six legacy carriers to enter bankruptcy. The other five are United and Continental, now merged, Delta and Northwest, also merged, and US Airways, which entered bankruptcy twice before merging with America West.

    Airlines have resembled those local governments that have given unsustainable contracts to unionized public employees and now are contemplating bankruptcy. (Watch Stockton, Calif., which may soon be the biggest municipal bankruptcy since the Depression.) Bankruptcy has been a management tool for airlines that cannot stand strikes — there has been no strike at a major airline since 2005 — because they must amortize their aircraft even when not flying. Bankruptcy has enabled carriers to shred improvident contracts entered into to purchase labor peace.

    If American’s pilots had the work rules covering Continental pilots before the merger with United, American could have hundreds fewer pilots, and more earnings: A senior captain flying a wide-body plane makes more than $200,000 a year and has rich pension and medical plans.

    Horton has done taxpayers a favor by deciding not to turn American’s non-pilot pensions over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the deeply underfunded federal agency that would pay only a portion of what employees were expecting. American will pay benefits already accrued, but henceforth employees will have defined-contribution rather than defined-benefit plans.

    Airline bankruptcies are peculiar: Just last July American bought $38 billion worth of new fuel-efficient aircraft. It takes money to save money and an airline.

    Horton is imperturbably noncommittal about the possibility that the industry’s next consolidation will meld American with perhaps US Airways or Delta: “Our plan is to create the best outcome for our stakeholders.” Which is a nice way of saying, “Please leave your seatbelts fastened.” Turbulence is normal, and normally good for travelers.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...xFT_print.html
    Interesting article especially the points on nut case Galbraith.
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  15. #965
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    Professor Galbraith simply made the mistake of extrapolating his most recent experiences, USA triumphant, almost all major competitors in still smoking ruins, high tax rates, large unionized industries handing out benefits everywhere, and assumed it would last forever. it was hard to imagine the unrelenting, unstoppable force of competition when you are Ali and everybody else has rickets. The people to fault are the twits that keep bringing up how great conditions were in the 50's and why we need to replicate them. They, with his son, a professor somewhere in south TX, take the prize for not having a clue.

    American made the same mistake in the 90's assuming they would reward business travelers for getting expensive, high margin seats while their firms paid the piper. As everybody that spent 20 minutes looking at the situation realized, eventually companies will catch on and start using technology to control ticket usage or eliminate it. With every upturn after a recession, American kept hoping business travelers would go back to free spending, but it never happened. Once again, some extrapolated the brief recent experience into forecasts for several decades.

    Now we see it with Apple,supposedly able to get margins of 35 per cent forever, while rest of industry gets five or 10 per cent. Eventually everyone goes to the mean. No one is special, no matter what they think.

  16. #966
    Skyscraper Member TexasPlus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    No one is special, no matter what they think.
    You and I know that, but please be cautious about offending "progressives" by exposing them to historical facts.
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  17. #967
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    Warrior One, First Revinue Flight, One Mans Comments.

    The relationship between Southwest Airlines and the Boeing 737 has gone back a long way. Recently, Southwest took delivery of their first Boeing 737-800. For the average person this might be a non-event. For those who realize that previously the airline only operated the smaller aircraft, this is an event worth celebrating. The 800 will allow the airline to operate more capacity on routes and the ETOPS certification will allow the 737-800 to take on destinations, like Hawaii. On the 800′s inaugural flight from Chicago Midway Airport (MDW) to Fort Lauderdale (FLL) my father was able to join along.

    My dad, Butch Brown, is a huge Southwest Airlines fan (I think if he ever got a “B” boarding pass he would be so ashamed), so it made sense for him to check out the new plane, with the Boeing Sky Interior. Here is his report in his own words:

    The technical facts on the new aircraft are well know: 28% more passengers, quieter and more spacious cabin, larger improved overhead storage bins, durable and comfortable seats, and of course the LED (light emitting diodes) that can portray different color schemes like a soft blue sky and a relaxing pallet of sunset colors. I was anxious to see for myself if these new innovations in look and feel will make a significant difference in my flying enjoyment.

    I woke up at 4:30 am with great anticipation of my flight on Southwest’s new Boeing 737-800. This particular aircraft was dedicated and named “Warrior One” in salute of the Southwest Employees’ Warrior Spirit that reflects a “can-do” attitude. My flight aboard “Warrior One” from Chicago’s Midway Airport to Fort Lauderdale was the the aircraft’s maiden scheduled flight. It was to be a day of celebration.

    Arriving at the Midway Airport departure gate for Warrior One was a scene made for a party: balloons, roulette game for passenger prizes, special breakfast treats and drinks, cheers from enthusiastic passengers and the opportunity to have your photo taken with “Little Miss 737″. On board the festivities continued with a raffle for prizes ranging from Warrior One ball caps to a free flight on Southwest Airlines.

    There was a similar scene when we arrived at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. There was a water cannon salute as we taxied to our gate, followed by a walk through a forest of balloons and rousing applause and cheers from Southwest staff and departing passengers at the arrival gate. This was a very memorable flight indeed.

    Now, to answer the question I originally posed before the flight, “am I a fan of the Sky Interior and Southwest’s new 737-800?”

    The volume of living space has increased with the sky interior and it is notable. Sculpted ceiling, sloping storage bins, and reshaped window recesses make the cabin appear larger and add to the feel of spaciousness. These literally change your perspective on the real estate airline travelers call home for long periods of time. The Sky Interior has a way of making the narrow body 737 feel almost like a wide body.

    I was a little skeptical with the new seats having less seat pitch, but the seat pockets have been moved upwards providing an increase in knee room, and life vests have been moved to the overhead so both legs fit comfortably under the seat in front of you.

    Pivoted overhead bins means passengers don’t have to bend to prevent bumping their heads as they leave their seats. Another feature that passengers (and flight attendants) will appreciate are the intuitive placement of switches and call buttons. The reading-light switches and flight-attendant call button are easily identifiable and make it much less likely to accidentally press the flight-attendant call button.

    Flying on Warrior One made you almost forget you were flying on a Southwest flight, but in a good way. The one factor that remains constant with Southwest and brought back the reality that this was indeed a Southwest flight was flight-attendants’ impeccable customer service. I have been on other Boeing 737-800s flying with other carriers, but what really made this one unique was the “Warrior One” Southwest Airlines crew. Am I a fan? Absolutely! How can one not be with this combination of new plane, great service and oh yes, bags still fly for free.

    See the accompanying photos and full article @:
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinerep...oeing-737-800/
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  18. #968
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    ^ Thanks for the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead View Post
    Poor old man must be bored to death to get a rise out of a 737-800.
    It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Rodriguez View Post
    It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.
    Urm, Southwest flies plenty of "classic" 737s - same age as the MD80s. Furthermore, AA has been flying the exact same 737s with the new interior and reduced noise mentioned in this article for a while now.

  21. #971
    Skyscraper Member Double Wide's Avatar
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    But it doesn't seem like American is embracing them like Southwest is.
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  22. #972
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    The 12 greatest entrepreneurs of our time

    9. Herb Kelleher
    herb_kelleher.jpg
    Fly Herb: Kelleher with friend at Love Field in Dallas in 1994

    Company: Southwest Airlines
    Sales: $15.6 billion
    Market Value: $6.4 billion
    Employees: 45,392
    Advice: Make your employees No. 1.

    When Herb Kelleher took an aptitude test at Wesleyan University, where he majored in English, he was told that there were three things he was best suited for: working as a journalist, an editor, or a lawyer. Kelleher chose law, and it was a good thing. It would take five long years of often tortuous litigation by competitors to get Southwest Airlines out of court and into the air in June 1971.

    In an industry plagued by vast amounts of red ink, Southwest marked its 39th consecutive year of profitability in 2011, a feat unmatched in U.S. aviation history. What's more, Kelleher, 81, proved that you could still charge low fares and be nicely profitable. Southwest is not only the largest U.S. domestic airline but also responsible, as one economist noted, for 90% of the low-fare airline business that exists in America.

    How did Kelleher do it? He kept costs extraordinarily low and customer service high -- and he did both by creating a culture that respected the people he carefully hired. Like Sam Walton, he understood that front-line personnel can either make you or break you. And Kelleher got his people to sign on to the program through profit-sharing plans and stock options that made employees feel and act like owners. It separated Southwest from the pack.

    "Years ago," he once told an interviewer, "the business schools used to pose it as a conundrum. They would say, `Well, who comes first? Your employees, your shareholders, or your customers?' But it's not a conundrum. Your employees come first. And if you treat your employees right, guess what? Your customers come back, and that makes your shareholders happy. Start with employees and the rest follows from that."

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/...ortune/10.html

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/...une/index.html

    Top 50 Most Admired Companies
    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...hots/2068.html
    Just a few recent recognitions among the many frequently awarded to Southwest and its people.
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  23. #973
    Incoherent Rambler grantboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Wide View Post
    But it doesn't seem like American is embracing them like Southwest is.
    What is that supposed to mean?

  24. #974
    Just Changing Planes aygriffith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Rodriguez View Post
    It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.
    Most legacies are flying planes as old as the AA MD-80/83's. Delta has been buying MD-90's from anyone who will sell them one. They're hoping to pickup 50 over the next few years. They also have been redoing the 88 interiors to match the 90's.

    AA has done a poor job keeping their Mad Dogs comfortable. But as a plane type they're incredibly versatile. I'm interested to see what is done with Airtran's 80ish 717's. Those would be a great and bargain way to revitalize someone's old short haul fleet.


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  25. #975
    Mid-Rise Member Trae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead View Post
    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...rs-attack.html


    Houston council members attack study supporting Hobby international flights

    ByTerry Maxon/Reporter
    tmaxon@dallasnews.com | Bio

    4:10 PM on Tue., Apr. 17, 2012 | Permalink
    We don't know if Houston City Council members just didn't like the study that favors building an international terminal and customs facility at Houston Hobby Airport, or if they don't like the entire idea.

    But, from media reports, it appears some certainly didn't like what they've seen so far about the Hobby proposal, being pushed by Southwest Airlines.

    Here's the top of a Houston Chronicle story out of Monday's committee meeting:

    A consultant's study that forecasts an economic boon for Houston if Hobby is made into an international airport came under fire from city council members Monday as "biased" and "custom-made just to satisfy the demand of Southwest" Airlines, which is asking the city for permission to build a $100 million Customs facility and five-gate expansion at Hobby.

    In a three-hour grilling of Houston Airports Director Mario Diaz, council members complained that the numbers in the study strained credulity, that they were kept in the dark about Southwest's pitch for at least eight months, that airport officials have been condescending and that council and others should have been asked for input before Diaz recommended approval of the Hobby expansion.


    "Many council members were visibly angry with the way the proposal was handled, arguing that the aviation director had reached a conclusion without adequately consulting with all the people involved," KHOU-TV reported.

    "'You all have blown it, in my view,' said Councilmember C.O. Bradford. 'This rollout has simply been a disaster.'"

    One thing that stuck out for council members was the study's estimates of traffic generation. The Chronicle story noted that the study made an estimate of passenger traffic between Houston Hobby and Bogota, Colombia, based on a $133 one-way fare.

    By comparison, Southwest's average one-way fare between Dallas and Houston in Q3 2011 was $156.04, according to financial analyst Bob Herbst of AirlineFinancials.com.
    United throwing dollar bills at Houston City Council members.

  26. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trae View Post
    United throwing dollar bills at Houston City Council members.
    Is the study available to the public?

  27. #977
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucy View Post
    Is the study available to the public?
    A document regarding publicly-owned airports made for a public entity will not be made public.
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  28. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeroD View Post
    A document regarding publicly-owned airports made for a public entity will not be made public.
    Huh???
    I posted this site a couple of days ago, here it is again. http://www.freehobbyairport.com
    The study is at the link at the TOP RIGHT of the main page "Economic Impact Study"
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  29. #979
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus View Post
    Huh???
    I posted this site a couple of days ago, here it is again. http://www.freehobbyairport.com
    The study is at the link at the TOP RIGHT of the main page "Economic Impact Study"
    I was being snarky. In other words, giving Tucy what he/she/it tries to give to others.
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  30. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead View Post
    ????????????????????????
    It's clear that United is bribing members of Houston city Council. Why should their opinion be needed first before a study like this? I believe it will still pass and Hobby will become an international airport. The vast majority of residents in Houston want this. Also, the mayor and HAS want this. Not sure city council would want to jeopardize their seats when re-election rolls around.

  31. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trae View Post
    Also, the mayor and HAS want this. Not sure city council would want to jeopardize their seats when re-election rolls around.
    A) Not many people show up to vote in Muni elections.
    B) The people who benefit from a Free Hobby may not all live in Houston i.e. Pasadena, League City, etc.
    B) If I was their consultant, I would have them paint it as "Those as*sholes from Dallas are coming down here and trying to hurt OUR airline and its employees. Bush is a success because our proven formula maintaining Bush as our international airport".

    Now, it's just matter of finding a place for the re-election party.
    Tighten the female dog!

  32. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus View Post
    Huh???
    I posted this site a couple of days ago, here it is again. http://www.freehobbyairport.com
    The study is at the link at the TOP RIGHT of the main page "Economic Impact Study"
    Thanks

  33. #983
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    While SWA is earning $95 million this quarter and trying to expand their business at Hobby, American may join TWA, Braniff, Eastern, and a long list of illustrious carriers from our glorious past.

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...us-airway.html

    Will be sad for those who lose their jobs, but the blame lies squarely at the feet of management and their awful leadership.

    P.S. Maybe US Airways takes the American name as it may have more brand equity, maybe not. And yes I realize American won't be closing it's doors. But its days as a stand alone airline may be numbered, and 50/50 the name "American Airlines" is no more.

  34. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Rodriguez View Post
    While SWA is earning $95 million this quarter and trying to expand their business at Hobby, American may join TWA, Braniff, Eastern, and a long list of illustrious carriers from our glorious past.

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...us-airway.html

    Will be sad for those who lose their jobs, but the blame lies squarely at the feet of management and their awful leadership.

    P.S. Maybe US Airways takes the American name as it may have more brand equity, maybe not. And yes I realize American won't be closing it's doors. But its days as a stand alone airline may be numbered, and 50/50 the name "American Airlines" is no more.
    Remember that America West and it's management acquired US Air, but retained the US Air name for the combined airline. I would put my money on the same thing happening again when US Air takes over AA. IMHO the AA brand recognition world wide is far bigger than US Air.

    As I said before, the combined corporate culture of these two is going to be ugly.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  35. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus View Post
    Remember that America West and it's management acquired US Air, but retained the US Air name for the combined airline. I would put my money on the same thing happening again when US Air takes over AA. IMHO the AA brand recognition world wide is far bigger than US Air.

    As I said before, the combined corporate culture of these two is going to be ugly.
    Agreed on AA Name going forward, and you have one airline where the employees hate their management acquiring another airline where the employees hate their management. Then you are going to either layoff or relocate a bunch of those angry employees. Makes for a great airline.

  36. #986
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    The Greater Houston Partnership is getting behind Southwest. Huge blow to United:

    The Greater Houston Partnership is backing a plan to expand Hobby Airport that would allow for international flights.

    The Partnership’s Business Issues Committee voted unanimously to support the plan to add five gates and a Customs facility to the airport. Southwest Airlines is pushing the plan so it can start flying to Mexico and the Caribbean. The Partnership’s board of directors is expected to adopt a resolution in support of Hobby expansion by the end of next week. “This is a critically important issue for Houston. We want two vibrant airports and the benefits that go along with it: more jobs, more travelers and a competitive advantage for our city,” said Tony Chase, chairman of the Partnership. United Airlines, which dominates the Latin American market from its base at Bush Intercontinental Airport, has fought the proposal. Company officials and consultants have argued that dividing the city’s international air traffic will cost jobs and routes.

    A city consultant’s study concluded that the Hobby plan will create 10,000 jobs and inject $1.6 billion into the local economy. Having the most prominent voice in the Houston business community behind the Hobby plan is another blow to United, which merged with Houston hometown airline Continental in 2010. In pressing its case, United has been drawing on the good will and trust Continental generated as an active corporate citizen for decades. The Partnership’s immediate past board chairman is Larry Kellner, who was CEO of Continental from 2004 to 2009. The Partnership’s airports task force is chaired by Michelle Baden, United’s managing director for international and state affairs and a registered lobbyist for the airline at City Hall.

    But the Partnership still backed the Southwest position.

    “GHP has carefully deliberated on how increased competition changes the landscape within airport systems, having reviewed and analyzed extensive data and listened intently to representatives from the Houston Airport System, city of Houston, United and Southwest,” said Jeff Moseley, president and CEO of the Partnership. “We intend to keep working with all airlines and parties to protect and grow our region’s airports.”

    City Council is scheduled to vote next month on the Hobby expansion plan.
    http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitic...bby-expansion/

    Southwest continues to play the "we are a Texas company" angle when lobbying for the Hobby expansion and it is no doubt working.

    FORTUNE -- United Continental Holdings is learning the hard way that it isn't wise to mess with Texas. The recently merged airline's decision to choose Chicago as its corporate headquarters over Continental's hometown of Houston appears to have resulted in a big loss of political capital with the city and its airport authority. The move could end up hitting United's bottom line hard as rival Southwest Airlines targets Houston to be its first international hub.

    There are a lot of unintended consequences when it comes to merging two companies, especially two major international airlines. When Chicago-based United (UAL) announced its merger with Houston-based Continental at the end of 2010, the decision to move the newly combined airline's headquarters up to Chicago wasn't given much thought. United had struck what it had said was a sweetheart tax and rental deal with Chicago city officials a year earlier to keep the airline's headquarters in the Windy City in the event of a merger with a rival airline. Houston, apparently, never had a chance.

    The loss of Houston as Continental's headquarters meant moving most of its major corporate functions to Chicago. Continental's then chief executive, Jeff Smisek, not even a year into the job, became the combined airline's chief executive. Smisek was quick to make the move out of Houston but the mood at Continental's headquarters in downtown Houston was somber, as much of the staff did not want to move to Chicago......

    .....But all that intangible political capital was trashed when the airline merged with United. The loss of the Continental name was bad enough for the city, but the loss of the headquarters was a big blow to its ego. While Houston is still United's largest hub with over 17,000 employees living and working in the city, the loss of the C-suite appears to have been an unforgivable sin.

    Southwest Airlines (LUV) is hoping to cash in on United throwing away its golden goose. It has brazenly asked Houston's airport authority to pay nearly $100 million to upgrade Hobby to receive international flights. The upgrade would allow Southwest to use Hobby to launch truly competitive international air service to the same locations where Continental has held an almost near-monopoly in non-stop service for years. This would, invariably, force Continental to lower prices on competing routes or to even pull out of some them completely if Southwest is able to put enough pressure on its margins.

    This possible Southwest expansion also has larger implications for the airline industry. Southwest inherited international air service to a few destinations south of the border and to the Caribbean when it acquired AirTran in 2010. It has just started to put plans in motion to expand international service - under the Airtran banner, for now - launching routes to Mexico from Orange County, CA and San Antonio, TX. But unlike those locations, Houston is a major hub for Southwest and is seen as a major gateway to Latin America. If Hobby does go international, Southwest will be able to fill its Latin America-bound planes with passengers from any of the 36 domestic destinations it already serves through Hobby.
    http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...hwest-houston/

    An article from Bloomberg:

    Southwest’s plan would create Houston competition for some flights to Latin America, the region where United posts its highest yields, or average fare per mile, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Latin America produced a bigger gain in first-quarter yields than routes in the U.S. or across the Atlantic and Pacific, United said.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-busy-hub.html

    And here are some excerpts from United's "study":

    United has added more flts to IAH than any of its other hubs since the merger and IAH has grown more since 1996 alone than Hobby has in total current flying.

    The comparison to the MIA/FLL situation is invalid because it neglects the fact that AA dismantled its San Juan hub during the same period to increase MIA, and that AA Latin traffic is actually down overall from where it was.

    The comparison to ORD/MDW is also invalid since it ignores that Mexicana ceased operation in this period, that carriers were only backfilling, and total Latin traffic is actually down.

    Comparison of multi-international airport cities in both Europe and the US show that multi-international airport cities have seen no growth or actually shrunk, while single international airport cities have seen growth.

    United would pull 6% of current capacity and 4% of planned capacity as a result of loss of connecting traffic to support routes that Houston O&D doesn't warrant and/or are already unprofitable but supported by overall network. Future planned routes that would not be flown include Asia/Pacific, Transatlantic, and South America. Auckland and China are specifically cited as examples of routes that cannot be supported by Houston O&D alone, and would be harmed by shifting connecitng traffic on network supporting flights.
    http://keepiahstrong.com/docs/UnitedStudyMay3.pdf

    lmao. United's scare tactics are so easy to see. It is really ridiculous.

  37. #987
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    Yeah. United needs to talk to American about how to shut down SWA. What they're doing ain't workin'... Of course, pulling up and moving to Chicago was a horrible mistake for them. Don't mess with Texas indeed!

  38. #988
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    I can only hope Southwest will lead the push to upgrade Love Field into an international airport, too. The remnant decision makers still enforcing the entitlement mentality of the Legacy Carriers will be less and less effective to keep monopoly situations intact.

  39. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon View Post
    I can only hope Southwest will lead the push to upgrade Love Field into an international airport, too. The remnant decision makers still enforcing the entitlement mentality of the Legacy Carriers will be less and less effective to keep monopoly situations intact.
    very true and plausible! Look at where Wright was when first introduced and look at the steady chipping away that has happened by SWA. If their international service takes off, I can imagine SWA revisiting Wright within the next decade. Ft. Worth would hate it, but it is not out of the question. They can always dangle a relocation in front of the city council to get Dallas on board.

  40. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksig121 View Post
    very true and plausible! Look at where Wright was when first introduced and look at the steady chipping away that has happened by SWA. If their international service takes off, I can imagine SWA revisiting Wright within the next decade. Ft. Worth would hate it, but it is not out of the question. They can always dangle a relocation in front of the city council to get Dallas on board.
    If Fort Worth wants it's own airport, then it needs to become a business center that can support one. Love Field is (no longer...) a threat to DFW or the carriers based at DFW. The viability of the business center in central Dallas has sacrificed convenience for regional strength long enough.

    It is now in the best interest of the region for central Dallas to grow, and a wide open Love Field is part of it.

  41. #991
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    So Southwest wins in a landslide, and United is threatening to fire thousands of employees in Houston 3 years before the new terminal opens. I don't think it was possible for United to handle this any worse.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...#photo-3003997

    The City Council approved a plan on Wednesday that will give Houston two international airports, settling a debate over whether flights from Hobby to Latin America would boost the local economy or divide the city against itself and trigger layoffs, canceled routes and stagnation at Bush Intercontinental Airport. Within hours, United Airlines told employees in a bulletin that, as a result of the council vote, it would be cutting planned operations at Bush Intercontinental by 10 percent and eliminating 1,300 Houston jobs, with the first buyouts, transfers or pink slips going out in the fall. It immediately canceled planned service to Auckland, New Zealand.

    The council's 16-1 vote, according to the bulletin, also puts in "significant doubt" whether United will complete a planned $700 million expansion of Terminal B at Bush Intercontinental on which it broke ground in January. "We believe that splitting Houston's international air service is the wrong decision for the city's future, but we respect the fact that City Council did not agree," United spokeswoman Mary Clark said in a released statement. Houston Airport Director Mario Diaz declined to comment on United's jobs announcement.

    Mayor Annise Parker was dubious of United's post-vote stance. "I'll wait to see that they do that," she said. "I think United is committed to this city and that they're going to do their best to continue to grow jobs here in Houston. We already know that we provide a much more competitive environment in terms of cost of living and workforce than any of their other hub areas. They committed early on that we would be the largest hub in the largest airline in the world and that's the commitment I expect them to keep." She added later, "They've stated continuously that they welcome competition. That competition is at least three years away. So, for United to say there are going to be 1,300 people laid off next week or so, that's just not reasonable. Because nothing is going to happen until that terminal is built. There's no competition today. So any decisions they make in terms of personnel are based on other things - not the vote we cast today."

    $100 million project

    Under the plan approved by the council, Southwest will pay $100 million up front to build five international gates and a customs facility at Hobby. In exchange, the airline receives control of four of the five gates, free rent in the new facilities and a rebate based on how much sales inside Hobby increase once Southwest launches its first planned international departures in 2015.

    "This is what we were sent here to do. We were sent here to expand business, to create opportunities to continue the growth in our great city," said District I Councilman James Rodriguez, who represents the southeast area of the city where Hobby is located. "This is yet another historic day in the city of Houston, and it's also another historic day in aviation." The council supported the proposition that Southwest's entry into the international market will lower fares, cause more people to fly, and pump up the Houston economy.

    "I can guarantee you that our fares are going to be lower than our competition," said Southwest CEO Gary Kelly, who repeatedly visited Houston to pitch the proposal. "It's all about competition. It's all about lowering fares, and more traffic means more jobs."

    Lone dissenter

    United, which has a virtual lock on Latin American flights from Houston, opposed the expansion. Councilman Jerry Davis, whose District B includes Bush Intercontinental, cast the lone negative vote. "I don't think the people of the city of Houston really understand what could transpire," said Davis, who worried that it will cost jobs and hurt businesses in north Houston. "I pray that I'm wrong." Though Davis stood alone in the vote, several of his colleagues openly acknowledged that they were torn. The council had to pick between diametrically opposite visions of the consequences of choosing a side in an epic corporate battle between the nation's largest domestic carrier and the world's largest airline. A city study forecasts as many as 18,000 new jobs and $1.6 billion in annual economic impact from Hobby, while United's own study predicts 3,700 lost jobs in the region and a loss of $300 million in annual economic impact.

    Popularity contest?

    Failure to approve Hobby expansion would have driven Southwest to shop its expansion plans in San Antonio or another competing city, Southwest leaders said. Embracing Southwest, however, could trim back United's expansion plans at Bush Intercontinental and strip it of its status as the largest hub of the world's largest airline. Even some of those who cast votes in favor of Hobby did so with some trepidation. "I'm concerned that we're about to reverse 45 years or more of aviation policy without having had the opportunity to have a sober discussion about this matter around the council table," said District J Councilman Mike Laster. "To me, at times this proposal has felt more like a public relations campaign or a popularity contest rather than an attempt to forge good public policy. I regret that I am not yet wholly convinced that the greater metropolitan area, with its population of just over 6 million people, is large enough to operate two international airports within one system without inflicting damage of some sort."

    After the vote, scores of United employees wearing blue shirts with the slogan "Keep IAH Strong" silently filed out of the room while Parker temporarily waived rules against cheering in chambers to permit an eruption of hollering and applause from Southwest employees in yellow T-shirts with the words "Free Hobby."

  42. #992
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    Ouch!

    ---------------------------------------

    http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/20...own-employees/


    Southwest wins Hobby fight as United pouts, threatens its own employees


    Years ago, as American Airlines was losing the battle over the opening of Love Field in Dallas, the carrier’s then chief executive, Don Carty, told me that at some point you have to accept the inevitable and adapt to the new rules. Or you could do what United Airlines did yesterday: throw what amounts to a corporate temper tantrum by threatening your own employees with their jobs.

    Within hours of the Houston City Council approving a plan that would allow international flights from Hobby Airport, which Southwest Airlines plans to begin flying in 2015, United told employees it would cut 1,300 jobs at Bush Intercontinental Airport beginning as early as this fall. Oh, and it won’t fly to New Zealand, either. So there.

    None of the economic issues that might force such cuts will be in place for another three years, of course, but United is ready to start throwing its employees under the bus as soon as possible. It’s sort of like an army that starts shooting its own soldiers before the other side has even arrived at the battlefield. The mere threat of future competition is enough for United to surrender as soon as it looses the first skirmish.

    Throughout the Hobby fight, United has clung to its economic model of hub dynamics. It argues that battling Southwest over cheap flights to Mexico will compromise its complex route network connecting through Houston, forcing it to reduce those operations. Hence, it scrubs New Zealand. United is bound to the hub-and-spoke system, both by its operations and its obligations to code-sharing partners. But what benefits Houston passengers more: a single flight to New Zealand, or many, less expensive flights to destinations in Mexico to which many more people fly?

    During the weeks that this battle has been going on, I’ve heard from a lot of United employees. Most have faithfully plugged the company line. They even flooded an online poll on this blog at the company’s request. Perhaps they were motivated by fear, perhaps by loyalty, perhaps by both. No matter their motivations, they deserve better than the petulance their company displayed in the wake of Wednesday’s council vote.

  43. #993
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    Are a few flights to Mexico that important to United? SW is not going to any of the high profile Latin American spots nor will it have any relationships with the carriers in those countries. The people on those flights will be the same ones flying with Pam Grier, making 17,500 a year (with benefits!), on her Cabo runs in Jackie Brown.

  44. #994
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    This was something that United wanted to do and Southwest presented them an opportunity to do so, without having to much egg on their face other than looking like little children.

  45. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    Are a few flights to Mexico that important to United? SW is not going to any of the high profile Latin American spots nor will it have any relationships with the carriers in those countries. The people on those flights will be the same ones flying with Pam Grier, making 17,500 a year (with benefits!), on her Cabo runs in Jackie Brown.
    More destinations that just Mexico, especially with the newer 737s having more range. Probably won't be able to go as far South as Brazil, but Venezuela? Yes. SW will do Mexico and the Caribbean first.

  46. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trae View Post
    More destinations that just Mexico, especially with the newer 737s having more range. Probably won't be able to go as far South as Brazil, but Venezuela? Yes. SW will do Mexico and the Caribbean first.
    737 ranges per Wiki"
    100 = 1,540 nmi
    200 = 1,900
    200 Advance = 2,300 nmi
    300, 400, & 500 (Classics) = 2,270–2,400 nmi
    600, 700, 800, 900ER (Next Generations) = 3,050–5,510 nmi

    Cities reachable from Houston Hobby
    (assumed SW international hub relative to Dallas Love)
    at 2,400 nmi
    Quito Ecudaor, Carcass Venezuela, Roseau Dominica, Hamilton Bermuda, Sydney Nova Scotia, Edmonton Alberta, Vancouver BC.

    at 5,500 nmi
    Honolulu Hawaii, Papeete French Polynesia, Hanga Roa Easter Island, Santiago Chile, Bahia Blanca Argentina, Hastings Sierra Leone, Algers Algeria, Milan Italy, Innsbruck Austria, Munich Germany, Prague Czech Republic, Talinn Estonia, Helsinki Finland, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky Kanchatka, Nome Alaska.

    So, the new, longest range 737s could reach all of North and South America, Slices through NW Africa, Central Europe and Southern Pacific Islands, with the Kamachata Pennisula being the only part of Asia in range.
    By the way, the shorter range 737s can't reach Alaska and Newfoundland, splits northern Canada and the Lesses Antilles, barely reaches South America, but reaches all the Greater Antilles Caribbean Islands.

  47. #997
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    The 737-800 next gens that Southwest currently has coming online are only listed at 3,060 to 3,115 nm (per WP). That could certainly serve much of the Americas. Anything beyond that would require them to order the 737-900 ER which seems unlikely to happen until after they work the 737MAX into their fleet in 2017+.

  48. #998
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    Delta Pilots Contract Clears Way to Add 88 Southwest 717s

    Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) (DAL) pilots approved a new contract, paving the way for the world’s second-largest carrier to acquire 88 Boeing Co. (BA) (BA) 717 jets from Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV) (LUV) to help replace aging aircraft.

    Delta’s chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association said 62 percent of the 10,170 pilots who cast ballots voted in favor of the contract. Taking on the 717s was contingent upon the pilots ratifying the agreement, which also allows Atlanta-based Delta to add as many as 70 two-class, 76-seat regional jets.

    “They gave the mainline pilots a win and the company as a whole got a win because they will have a better fleet mix,” Savanthi Syth, an analyst at Raymond James in St. Petersburg, Florida, said in a telephone interview. “And it’s a positive for Southwest because the 717s are not as cost efficient as the 737s that they are flying.”

    Delta will become the biggest operator of the 117-seat 717, a model out of production since 2006. The planes will replace 50-seat regional jets and older DC-9s. Southwest, which acquired the 717s when it bought AirTran Holdings Inc. in 2011, will shift back to flying only Boeing 737s.

    “We are pleased that Delta pilots chose to ratify this new contract,” said Morgan Durrant, a Delta spokesman. Pilots receive career-growth opportunities and compensation enhancements under the deal, he said while the airline wins “the ability to accelerate fleet enhancements which will be better for Delta customers and Delta people.”

    The 717s are scheduled to move to Delta over three years starting in the second half of 2013 through 2015 under a sublease deal. The transaction extends Delta’s strategy of adding used planes, such as the Boeing MD-90s bought in April.

    The accord was approved on May 21 by the executive council of the union. The airline reached a tentative agreement on the new contract with the pilots union seven months before the existing accord came up for amendment.

    The approved contract also gives Delta pilots a 4 percent pay increase starting on July 1, according to letter to union members from the chairman of the chapter’s executive council.
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...southwest-jets
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

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    Last edited by TexasPlus; 12 July 2012 at 09:58 AM. Reason: RePosted in better thread.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  50. #1000
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    Recently In DFW Hanger 3

    Seems there might be a little corrosion around the aft jack-pad area...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

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