Southwest & American Airlines

[Double Wide]

the city of Houston needs us to fly our big planes into Bush,

Innuendo

[Tucy]

Politically, it appears not. The Houston Airport System Director, as quoted in the Houston Chronicle:

"Just this week we learned that Customs and Border Protection had developed a staffing model for federal inspection service centers. Preliminary information confirms our intuition that Intercontinental is understaffed, which we have been arguing for a very long time to our congressional delegation."

As a result, requesting more resources for HOU (even if granted) would make whatever issues at IAH harder to solve.

Apparently two local Congressmen are skeptical that Houston will be allocated any more resources under this staffing model, seemingly regardless of whether or how they are paid for. In the end, DHS controls where resources are allocated.

Source: http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitic...decided-in-dc/

Have you ever seen two congressmen voluntarily proclaim their utter ineffectiveness the way these two just did?

[profbarium]

Innuendo

Beg your pardon? Care to clarify? Thanks.

[Tnekster]

Jerry Gunter
Research Director - Dallas Business Journal

American Airlines retained the top position in the latest Top 50 North Texas Employers listing, despite the fact that its employee number dropped slightly from a year ago.

The Fort Worth-based company led the way with 24,700 local employees. Last year American Airlines, which is in the midst of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization, finished first with 24,888 employees.

Bank of America Bank of America Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company moved up one spot from last year with 20,000 employees to finish in the runner-up position.

Take a look at our slide show at right to see which other companies are in the top five.

The complete listing of the Largest North Texas Employers is available via the digital edition or on pages 9 and 10 in this week's print edition. Also, the Largest North Texas Charter Air Companies is on page 14.

Jerry Gunter can be reached at 214-706-7110.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/bl...rt-worths.html

[Tucy]

It is understandable why you want to think the details missed the point since the details of the agreement do not fit well within your argument. Tell us how an amicable agreement between the City of Houston and then Continental airlines that facilitates the renovation of two terminals one domestic and one international that requires Continental airlines to vacate its gates at the international terminal and build at their own expense the 3rd FIS area at the SAME airport in any way resembles the plans of southwest to require separate FIS facilities at another airport not currently an international airport?

Remember those customs agents that will work at that so called separate FIS area in terminal B are at the same airport and can be transported easily between terminals as needed to work all airline international arrivals at IAH, whereas those agents at Hobby will be at Hobby for one airline.

United reached an amicable agreement by which they agreed to fund the construction of a new, separate FIS facility, and also requires the Airport System to fund hundreds of millions of dollars worth of taxiway and other infrastructure.

Southwest has proposed an amicable agreement by which Southwest would fund the construction of a new, separate FIS facility. No word as of yet whether there would be ANY cost to the airport system.

Anyone without an axe to grind can see the similarity. It's a pretty simple fact...United requested and is scheduled to get a separate FIS facility.

You've added the staffing issue proviso to the discussion in an apparent attempt to muddy the water about whether any other airline had ever requested a separate FIS facility , and are now telling us that because the United facility is only separated from the Terminal D/E facility by a couple hundred yards, it is not really separate. But unless you've made a discovery you haven't shared with the rest of the world, the FIS agents cannot be in two places at the same time. It does not matter if those two places are separated by 30 yards or 30 miles.

[PuddinHead]

Please delete this post

[PuddinHead]

United reached an amicable agreement by which they agreed to fund the construction of a new, separate FIS facility, and also requires the Airport System to fund hundreds of millions of dollars worth of taxiway and other infrastructure.

Southwest has proposed an amicable agreement by which Southwest would fund the construction of a new, separate FIS facility. No word as of yet whether there would be ANY cost to the airport system.

Anyone without an axe to grind can see the similarity. It's a pretty simple fact...United requested and is scheduled to get a separate FIS facility.

You've added the staffing issue proviso to the discussion in an apparent attempt to muddy the water about whether any other airline had ever requested a separate FIS facility , and are now telling us that because the United facility is only separated from the Terminal D/E facility by a couple hundred yards, it is not really separate. But unless you've made a discovery you haven't shared with the rest of the world, the FIS agents cannot be in two places at the same time. It does not matter if those two places are separated by 30 yards or 30 miles.

Logic fails you in this argument. Granted the City of Houston and Continental airlines agreed to a third separated by one terminal FIS area at IAH but the underlying fact is that it is at the SAME AIRPORT! Now understand, this is the same airport that the city had designated as the international airport for the city and had planned for an expansion of international service for the City of Houston. They reached an agreement with the largest carrier at the airport to help with this expansion. The city had no plans or reason to start international service at Hobby.

Now here comes Southwest who made a business decision to leave IAH and now WN wants to start international flights from Houston but finds itself at Hobby which is not an international airport.


Here is where your argument falls apart.

1. Hobby is not an international airport.
2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines.
3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston.
4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby.
5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport.
6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves.
7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus


FYI, TP posted the initial article concerning Customs staffing issues.

[Tucy]

Logic fails you in this argument. Granted the City of Houston and Continental airlines agreed to a third separated by one terminal FIS area at IAH but the underlying fact is that it is at the SAME AIRPORT! Now understand, this is the same airport that the city had designated as the international airport for the city and had planned for an expansion of international service for the City of Houston. They reached an agreement with the largest carrier at the airport to help with this expansion. The city had no plans or reason to start international service at Hobby.

Now here comes Southwest who made a business decision to leave IAH and now WN wants to start international flights from Houston but finds itself at Hobby which is not an international airport.


Here is where your argument falls apart.

1. Hobby is not an international airport.
2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines.
3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston.
4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby.
5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport.
6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves.
7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus

First, no matter how you want to try to spin out of it, the simple fact remains that United asked for and is getting a separate FIS facility. That is undeniable. You asked for that information (suggesting to us that no other airline had ever done so). I gave you the information and you don't much care for it. That does not change the facts. As to your description of where my argument falls apart, none of that is the slightest-bit relevant to whether another airline has ever sought or gotten a separate FIS facility.

But apart from that, it's pretty comical:

1. Hobby is not an international airport. Actually, it is. There are currently no international commercial flights, but customs and immigrations services are available and performed there, probably on a daily basis. And, it is noteworthy that Hobby's 2003 Master Plan includes provisions for international gates and FIS facilities.

2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines. and Bush is the airport of choice for United. So what?

3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston. Wrong again. In fact, Bush, Hobby and Ellington are all three international airports.

4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby. Again, so what?

5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport. You may or may not have noticed, but airlines were deregulated in this country about 34 years ago. Nobody is required to demonstrate a "NEED" for air service to any governmental authority or, for that matter, internet forum posters. If Southwest is paying for it, it is really only Southwest that has any interest in the "need".

6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves. The more you post, the more similarities you find.

7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus. I doubt that United will be sharing their new separate Terminal B facilities with anyone else. (And it is entirely possible that any eventual agreement with Southwest might require them to allow other airlines to use the Hobby FIS... who knows?

[Tucy]

Logic fails you in this argument. Granted the City of Houston and Continental airlines agreed to a third separated by one terminal FIS area at IAH but the underlying fact is that it is at the SAME AIRPORT! Now understand, this is the same airport that the city had designated as the international airport for the city and had planned for an expansion of international service for the City of Houston. They reached an agreement with the largest carrier at the airport to help with this expansion. The city had no plans or reason to start international service at Hobby.

Now here comes Southwest who made a business decision to leave IAH and now WN wants to start international flights from Houston but finds itself at Hobby which is not an international airport.


Here is where your argument falls apart.

1. Hobby is not an international airport.
2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines.
3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston.
4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby.
5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport.
6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves.
7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus

First, no matter how you want to try to spin out of it, the simple fact remains that United asked for and is getting a separate FIS facility. That is undeniable. Just being on the same airport property does not keep them from being separate facilities. (Does DFW Airport not have several separate terminals? Or is that not possible, since Terminals A, B, C, D and E are all at the SAME AIRPORT!?) You asked for that information (suggesting to us that no other airline had ever done so). I gave you the information and you don't much care for it. That does not change the facts. FWIW, the fact that United almost certainly will not be sharing the Terminal B facility with other non-Star Alliance airlines rather amplifies the "separateness" of the new Terminal B FIS. Thanks for accidentally bringing that to our attention.

As to your description of where my argument falls apart, none of that is the slightest-bit relevant to whether another airline has ever sought or gotten a separate FIS facility.

But apart from that, it's pretty comical:

"1. Hobby is not an international airport." Actually, it is. There are currently no international commercial flights, but customs and immigrations services are available and performed there, probably on a daily basis.

"2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines." and Bush is the airport of choice for United. So what?

"3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston." Wrong again. In fact, Bush, Hobby and Ellington are all three international airports. And, it is noteworthy that Hobby's 2003 Master Plan includes provisions for international gates and FIS facilities.

"4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby." Again, so what?

"5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport." You may or may not have noticed, but airlines were deregulated in this country about 34 years ago. Nobody is required to demonstrate a "NEED" for air service to any governmental authority or, for that matter, internet forum posters. If Southwest is paying for it, it is really only Southwest that has any interest in the "need".

"6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves." The more you post, the more similarities you find.

"7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus." I highly doubt that United will be sharing their new separate Terminal B facilities with anyone else. (And it is entirely possible that any eventual agreement with Southwest might require them to allow other airlines to use the Hobby FIS... who knows?

[PuddinHead]

First, no matter how you want to try to spin out of it, the simple fact remains that United asked for and is getting a separate FIS facility. That is undeniable. Just being on the same airport property does not keep them from being separate facilities. (Does DFW Airport not have several separate terminals? Or is that not possible, since Terminals A, B, C, D and E are all at the SAME AIRPORT!?) You asked for that information (suggesting to us that no other airline had ever done so). I gave you the information and you don't much care for it. That does not change the facts. FWIW, the fact that United almost certainly will not be sharing the Terminal B facility with other non-Star Alliance airlines rather amplifies the "separateness" of the new Terminal B FIS. Thanks for accidentally bringing that to our attention.

As to your description of where my argument falls apart, none of that is the slightest-bit relevant to whether another airline has ever sought or gotten a separate FIS facility.

But apart from that, it's pretty comical:

"1. Hobby is not an international airport." Actually, it is. There are currently no international commercial flights, but customs and immigrations services are available and performed there, probably on a daily basis.

"2. Hobby is the airport of choice for southwest airlines." and Bush is the airport of choice for United. So what?

"3. IAH is the international Airport in Houston." Wrong again. In fact, Bush, Hobby and Ellington are all three international airports. And, it is noteworthy that Hobby's 2003 Master Plan includes provisions for international gates and FIS facilities.

"4. There are no other airlines soliciting for international flights at Hobby." Again, so what?

"5. No one including Southwest has demonstrated there is a need for the City of Houston to make Hobby an international airport." You may or may not have noticed, but airlines were deregulated in this country about 34 years ago. Nobody is required to demonstrate a "NEED" for air service to any governmental authority or, for that matter, internet forum posters. If Southwest is paying for it, it is really only Southwest that has any interest in the "need".

"6. Southwest the only airline who is soliciting for separate facilities. They want FIS at Hobby for themselves." The more you post, the more similarities you find.

"7. CO/UA share IAH International facilities with Aero Mexico, Air Canada, Air France, British Airways, Emirates, KLM, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TACA, Viva Aerobus." I highly doubt that United will be sharing their new separate Terminal B facilities with anyone else. (And it is entirely possible that any eventual agreement with Southwest might require them to allow other airlines to use the Hobby FIS... who knows?

Tucy if Hobby was an International airport we would not be having this conversation!

[tamtagon]

I think it's a positive sign of an emerging world city, Houston, that two airports with international service would be possible.

[tamtagon]

I think it's a positive sign of an emerging world city, Houston, that two airports with international service would be possible.

[Tucy]

Tucy if Hobby was an International airport we would not be having this conversation!

For the love of God, please stop wasting our time. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. As I said above, Hobby does not currently have international scheduled commercial flights. But that does not mean that it is not an international airport. Hobby offers customs and immigration services. This is an incontrovertible fact.

I suspect that what you meant to say (but clearly did not say) was that Hobby does not currently have international scheduled commercial service, a fact I have already stated. But given that fact, so what? Are you proposing that no additional airports ever be allowed to provide international scheduled commercial service?

[TexasPlus]

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 05 APRIL 2012
Location
FAA Identifier: HOU
Lat/Long: 29-38-43.5070N / 095-16-44.0000W
29-38.725117N / 095-16.733333W
29.6454186 / -95.2788889
(estimated)
Elevation: 46 ft. / 14.0 m (surveyed)
Variation: 05E (2000)
From city: 8 miles SE of HOUSTON, TX
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 77061

Airport Operations
Airport use: Open to the public
Activation date: 01/1939
Sectional chart: HOUSTON
Control tower: yes
ARTCC: HOUSTON CENTER
FSS: MONTGOMERY COUNTY FLIGHT SERVICE STATION
NOTAMs facility: HOU (NOTAM-D service available)
Attendance: CONTINUOUS
Wind indicator: yes
Segmented circle: no
Lights: SS-SR
Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
Operates sunset to sunrise.
Fire and rescue: ARFF index C
International operations: customs landing rights airport

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KHOU

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 05 APRIL 2012
Location
FAA Identifier: IAH
Lat/Long: 29-59-03.9610N / 095-20-29.1920W
29-59.066017N / 095-20.486533W
29.9844336 / -95.3414422
(estimated)
Elevation: 97 ft. / 29.6 m (surveyed)
Variation: 05E (2000)
From city: 15 miles N of HOUSTON, TX
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 77396

Airport Operations
Airport use: Open to the public
Activation date: 01/1963
Sectional chart: HOUSTON
Control tower: yes
ARTCC: HOUSTON CENTER
FSS: MONTGOMERY COUNTY FLIGHT SERVICE STATION
NOTAMs facility: IAH (NOTAM-D service available)
Attendance: CONTINUOUS
Wind indicator: lighted
Segmented circle: no
Lights: SS-SR
Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
Operates sunset to sunrise.
Fire and rescue: ARFF index E
International operations: customs landing rights airport

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIAH

It would seem some are confused about what airports are Quote "International".
The proper terminology is "International operations: customs landing rights airport".

The quotes above from www.airnav.com should be helpful.

[Tucy]

It would seem some are confused about what airports are Quote "International".
The proper terminology is "International operations: customs landing rights airport".

The quotes above from www.airnav.com should be helpful.

Thanks for posting that TexasPlus. Yes, some are confused. Interesting that the site lists Bush Intercontinental with the exact same terminology. Nevertheless, in the industry parlance, it is entirely proper to refer to both as "international airports". It would be a little ungainly to constantly refer to an airport as having "International operations: customs landing rights airport", rather than simply referring to them as an "international airport" as is the common practice.

[TexasPlus]

Thanks for posting that TexasPlus. Yes, some are confused. Interesting that the site lists Bush Intercontinental with the exact same terminology. Nevertheless, in the industry parlance, it is entirely proper to refer to both as "international airports". It would be a little ungainly to constantly refer to an airport as having "International operations: customs landing rights airport", rather than simply referring to them as an "international airport" as is the common practice.

Aviation like most industries uses slang and acronyms extensively, however slang is often misused or tends to lump different things as if they were the same.
Case in point, seems there is more than one type of "International Airport" as is seen with DFW.

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 05 APRIL 2012
Location
FAA Identifier: DFW
Lat/Long: 32-53-48.5810N / 097-02-16.7850W
32-53.809683N / 097-02.279750W
32.8968281 / -97.0379958
(estimated)
Elevation: 607 ft. / 185.0 m (surveyed)
Variation: 06E (2000)
From city: 12 miles NW of DALLAS-FORT WORTH, TX
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 75261
Airport Operations
Airport use: Open to the public
Activation date: 01/1974
Sectional chart: DALLAS-FT WORTH
Control tower: yes
ARTCC: FORT WORTH CENTER
FSS: FORT WORTH FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [817-541-3474]
NOTAMs facility: DFW (NOTAM-D service available)
Attendance: CONTINUOUS
Wind indicator: lighted
Segmented circle: no
Lights: SS-SR
Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport)
Operates sunset to sunrise.
Landing fee: yes
Fire and rescue: ARFF index E
International operations: international airport of entry

[PuddinHead]

It would seem some are confused about what airports are Quote "International".
The proper terminology is "International operations: customs landing rights airport".

The quotes above from www.airnav.com should be helpful.

Yes there is considerable confusion concerning airport designations. Since this conversation deals with Customs, Border Patrol operations the proper agency to classify airports as international would be the Department of Homeland Security not the FAA.

[TexasPlus]

Southwest Airlines Co. : AirTran Airways Awarded Route Approval for Flights Between Chicago Midway and Cancun
04/05/2012 | 10:10pm

Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) today announced that its wholly owned subsidiary AirTran Airways received route authority from the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to operate new international flights between Chicago Midway International Airport and Cancun International Airport. AirTran will offer one daily nonstop flight between the two cities beginning on June 3, 2012, subject to Mexican government approval. The flights can be booked today at www.airtran.com.

"We are excited to offer all AirTran Airways Customers this new opportunity to travel to Mexico," said Bob Jordan, Southwest Airlines' Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer and AirTran Airways President. "The additional international service to Cancun is a great example of how Customers are already realizing the benefits of Southwest's acquisition of AirTran."

With a current average of 246 daily departures at Chicago Midway, the combined AirTran/Southwest is the second largest carrier in the Chicago region. AirTran and Southwest currently operate nonstop service between Chicago Midway and a total of 58 cities.

Southwest and AirTran express their sincere gratitude to the DOT for awarding this authority to AirTran, and to the City of Chicago for its enthusiastic support of the new service.

ABOUT SOUTHWEST
Southwest Airlines continues to differentiate itself from other low-fare carriers - offering a reliable product with exemplary Customer Service. Southwest Airlines is the nation's largest carrier in terms of originating domestic passengers boarded and has acquired AirTran Airways, now a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines Co. Southwest serves 73 cities in 38 states and remains one of the most honored airlines in the world known for its commitment to the triple bottom line of Performance, People, and Planet. To read more about how Southwest is doing its part to be a good citizen, visit southwest.com/cares to read the Southwest Airlines One Report™. Based in Dallas, Southwest currently operates more than 3,200 flights a day and has more than 37,000 Employees.

ABOUT AIRTRAN
Southwest's acquisition of AirTran, which closed on May 2, 2011, significantly expanded Southwest's low-fare service to more Customers in more domestic markets, creating hundreds of additional low-fare itineraries for the traveling public. AirTran Airways, a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines Co., has been ranked the top airline in the Airline Quality Rating study three times in the past five years.

http://www.4-traders.com/SOUTHWEST-A...ay-a-14260751/

[TexasPlus]

By Loren Steffy Updated 11:32 p.m., Sunday, April 8, 2012

More than three decades after competition came to the airline industry, some of the biggest carriers still struggle to grasp the concept.

United Airlines, for example, wants the city of Houston to block Dallas-based Southwest Airlines' plans to begin flying internationally from Houston in 2015.

The move would require adding customs facilities at Hobby Airport, a $100 million project for which Southwest would bear the cost.

"It's our business risk, and it brings competition," Southwest Chief Executive Gary Kelly told the Chronicle's editorial board in one of two meetings between officials for both carriers and this newspaper last week. "We're basically applying for a building permit."

Of course, it's much more than that. As a result of Southwest's request, Houston has been thrust to the forefront of the next big airline showdown over market share.

Southwest, having frustrated the so-called legacy carriers in the most lucrative domestic markets, now has its sights on international routes, the only remaining cash cow for carriers like United.

United is responding the way the legacy airlines - those rooted in the business decades before deregulation - typically do: by clinging to the past.

Former Continental Chairman and Chief Executive Gordon Bethune argued that Bush Intercontinental Airport's very name implies international travel. The plan when it was built, he said, was that it would be Houston's hub for international flights.

The airport began operations in 1969, almost a decade before deregulation changed the industry. Whatever may have been planned, the purpose of deregulation was to turn that function over to the market.

It's a concept that the legacy carriers have struggled with ever since. In more than an hour of discussion, United's team questioned Southwest's growth assumptions in Houston, argued that the local traffic here doesn't justify the air service we already have and talked about the intricacies of its hub-and-spoke system.

Southwest on the hook

Southwest's economic numbers may indeed be the stuff of economic development puffery. Projections of jobs and passenger traffic rarely pan out as companies predict.

But if it's wrong, Southwest will pay for its mistake. It isn't the responsibility of the city or local passengers to make United's hub structure viable.

United argues that if Southwest succeeds, Houston will have too many flights concentrated on too few routes, forcing United and its global partners to pull down nonstop flights to faraway destinations.

"We firmly believe that we will have to shrink the airport," said Greg Hart, United's senior vice president for network operations.

But more carriers flying more flights means the routes most people want to fly will be better served and priced more competitively. Those that don't attract many passengers will either become more expensive or be scrapped, at least as nonstops.

In most industries, that's called market efficiency. In Airlineland, it prompts a cry for help, a plea to local governments to protect the country's biggest airline from market forces, even if it means passengers must pay higher fares on the most heavily traveled routes.

The story in Dallas

The last time one city tried to develop two airports, it was in Dallas, and Southwest was at the center of that battle, too. Then the battle was over domestic flights, and at the request of the big airlines, the federal government intervened to limit Southwest's flights out of Love Field. The larger carriers hoped to strangle the upstart in its crib.

Instead, Southwest flourished. It took the fight to its bigger rivals around the country. Those that are still flying have all, at some point, filed bankruptcy at least once since then.

Continental, and now United, built Houston's big airport into a fortress hub, one in which it controls most of the traffic to key markets such as Latin America, and as a result it can raise fares accordingly.

In its response to Southwest's latest challenge, United demonstrates the legacy of legacy carriers by trotting out the same tired arguments used for 35 years to cling to the vestiges of a monopolistic past.

The city should grant Southwest its "building permit" and let the market - in this case, passengers - decide the winner.

Loren Steffy

http://www.chron.com/business/steffy...ht-3465456.php

I wonder if next we see the same type of PR campaign, led by the same type of ethically challenged liars that were the opposition voice here a few years back?

[TexasPlus]

Chris Moran Source: Houston Chronicle April 04--

Opening Hobby Airport to commercial international flights will create 10,000 jobs, bring 1.6 million more air travelers through Houston annually and inject an additional $1.6 billion a year into the local economy, according to a Southwest Airlines executive who has seen city-commissioned studies on the matter.

"We're asking for an opportunity to invest $100 million in a new building in your city to provide more passengers, 1.6 million a year, a huge economic gain for the city," Ron Ricks, executive vice president and chief legal and regulatory officer for Southwest Airlines, told the Houston Chronicle editorial board Tuesday.

City Council is scheduled next month to consider granting Southwest permission to build a customs facility at Hobby so the low-cost carrier can fly to Cancun, Mexico, the Caribbean and other Latin American destinations as far away as Caracas, Venezuela.

United Airlines, which flies out of Bush Intercontinental Airport, opposes the plan, arguing that it could siphon off international travelers, reducing the mass of connecting traffic on which Bush-based carriers depend to sustain and expand routes from Houston. United also argues that a second international airport will divert Customs officers, creating longer wait times at Bush.

"Southwest is trying to justify the city abandoning the single-international-airport policy that made IAH one of the world's premier gateways. The purported economic benefits are taken directly from the city's draft economic impact study, which we have advised the city is fundamentally flawed," said United spokeswoman Mary Clark in a statement. "Our own conclusions based on realistic assumptions and data show that dividing the city's international air service market will cause dramatic, measurable harm to IAH and Houston's economy."

Customs delays

Houston Airport System Director Mario Diaz is expected to recommend whether Hobby should go global in a report to Mayor Annise Parker on Monday. The recommendation and the city-commissioned studies on the economic impact of the expansion will be made public that same day, the mayor announced in a memo on Tuesday.

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly said repeatedly at the editorial board meeting that Southwest is not asking for any city investment in the terminal expansion and Customs facility addition to Hobby. The $100 million cost of the project is to be covered by debt backed by Southwest and paid off through ticket surcharges.

Clark said Customs waits at IAH are among the worst in the nation. "If Houston can secure additional agents, they should be deployed to address the chronic understaffing IAH experiences every day," Clark said.

But Ricks asked, "Is Houston going to let 20 Customs agents stand in the way of a $1.6 billion-a-year economic impact? If we can't solve finding 20 Customs agents in this economy, then Houston, we do have a problem." Ricks said staffing is covered by a $17.50-per-international passenger fee.

Reduced fares

Kelly said he believes Southwest's entry into the Houston market will drive down prices and increase passengers at both airports.

"If you make the air fares affordable, the people will fly -- a gigantic increase. We're arguing to you the pie is going to increase," Kelly said.

Kelly stopped short of saying how much fares would come down. The volatility of fuel prices makes it difficult to forecast what Southwest's fares would be, he said, but added Southwest has enjoyed 39 straight years of profitability in part through offering cheaper fares than its competitors.

"We're talking about bringing you more flights, more competition, low fares. It'll create more jobs, over 10,000 jobs is what is predicted," Kelly said. "What you'll see will be a significant reduction in fares" if Southwest flies those routes from Houston, Kelly said.

I wonder what the two "United backing" politicians have to say about the Houston commissioned studies on job creation and economic impact to the area? Or will they just ignore it?

[TexasPlus]

Should Houston allow Southwest Airlines international flights from Hobby Airport?

See Poll At:
http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/
or
http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/20...-from-houston/

[Tucy]

Yes there is considerable confusion concerning airport designations. Since this conversation deals with Customs, Border Patrol operations the proper agency to classify airports as international would be the Department of Homeland Security not the FAA.

Nice try. But wherever you want to check... the undeniable fact is that US government has officers and operations at Hobby Airport performing customs and immigration services, making it an international airport.

The following is from the website of the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services:

"(b) Ports-of-Entry for aliens arriving by aircraft . In addition to the following international airports which are hereby designated as Ports-of-Entry for aliens arriving by aircraft, other places where permission for certain aircraft to land officially has been given and places where emergency or forced landings are made under part 239 of this chapter shall be regarded as designated for the entry of aliens arriving by such aircraft: (Re-designated as paragraph (b), previously paragraph (c)(3) effective 7/6/09; 74 FR 26933 )

* * *

District No. 38--Houston, Texas

Galveston, TX, Galveston Airport
Houston, TX, Ellington Field
Houston, TX, Hobby Airport
Houston, TX, Houston Intercontinental Airport "

[Tucy]

Should Houston allow Southwest Airlines international flights from Hobby Airport?

See Poll At:
http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/
or
http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/20...-from-houston/

It's starting to look like United might be fighting a losing battle, and making themselves even less highly-regarded. There was a poll on the Business Journal website with very similar results.

[tamtagon]

Precise semantics are wonderful. *sigh*

So, the "discussion" is really whether or not the technically already-an-international-airport Houston Hobby is given approval from whatever local, state and federal agencies & entities to allow Southwest Airlines to build and operate from a new $100 million International terminal.

I certainly understand all the existing international passenger service providers at Bush Airport doing what they can to protect the monopoly, but I do not agree with it at all.

[AeroD]

I would not be surprised if this issue comes up in Dallas in a few years.

[tamtagon]

^I wish it was an issue today.

[AeroD]

^I wish it was an issue today.

Never be too greedy. Southwest was smart by not playing the international bit during Wright Amendment negotiations. Assuming Southwest can fly internationally from Hobby, it is only then a matter of time people in DFW start asking, "Well, why can't we fly international from Love?"

Southwest says, "Well we have this law.."

And customers ask, "Can you change it?"

Southwest responds, "You bet your sweet ass we can!"

Meanwhile in a suburban campus in Fort Worth, AA barely reeling from DEFCON 1, the DEFCON 2 alarm goes off.

[Tucy]

Never be too greedy. Southwest was smart by not playing the international bit during Wright Amendment negotiations. Assuming Southwest can fly internationally from Hobby, it is only then a matter of time people in DFW starting asking, "Well, why can't we fly international from Love?"

Southwest says, "Well we have this law.."

And customers ask, "Can you change it?"

Southwest responds, "You bet your sweet ass we can!"

Meanwhile in suburban campus in Fort Worth, barely reeling from DEFCON 1, the DEFCON 2 alarm goes off.

By that time, those alarm bells may have relocated to Phoenix. ;-)

[TexasPlus]

Nice try. But wherever you want to check... the undeniable fact is that US government has officers and operations at Hobby Airport performing customs and immigration services, making it an international airport.

Perhaps.... But looking at the Jeppsen Airport Information page for IAH, HOU, DFW, and DAL, on the line "Customs Facilities:" it says "Customs are available but require prior permission for use." on each of them.

(Jeppsen publishes the charts used by pilots for navigation)

From a prior life, I know that when landing at some foreign airports it is necessary to call/radio ahead to give officials time to arrive, otherwise one had to sit on the aircraft until they did.

I would not be surprised if currently at HOU and DAL one needs to call ahead to scheduled Customs/Imagination officers meet a landing aircraft. This said, it's just a matter of when staffing is available at an otherwise Internationally qualified airport.

[tamtagon]

Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ctor-side.html

By Terry Maxon/Reporter
Apr. 9, 2012

...Southwest is pushing for the construction of a five-gate international terminal at Houston Hobby Airport. United Airlines, which operates international flights out of George Bush Intercontinental Airport, is against the Hobby project.

"... it's my recommendation we support Southwest's request to begin the process of obtaining the necessary approvals to initiate international service at Hobby," Houston aviation director Mario Diaz said.

Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?

[AeroD]

Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?

Nah...Southwest is the common denominator.

[TexasPlus]

Seems fine as is.

[LoneStarMike]

Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?

From an earlier Houston Chronicle story (see last part on page 2]

War between United, Southwest looms over Houston

The small scale of the proposed Hobby operation - up to 25 daily flights from five gates - poses no threat to the international operation at Bush, which offers flights from 35 gates.

[Tucy]

Do you guys want this topic, Hobby as an international passenger airport, to be its own thread?

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ctor-side.html

By Terry Maxon/Reporter
Apr. 9, 2012


Southwest wants five gates. How many gates are/will be at the Bush Airport?

Not sure what you are asking. How many gates total at Bush? How many international arrival gates? How many international arrival gates in the rebuilt Terminal B?

[tamtagon]

Not sure what you are asking. How many gates total at Bush? How many international arrival gates? How many international arrival gates in the rebuilt Terminal B?

I was wondering how many total international gates Bush airport will have after the new $700 million terminal is finished. I'm proposing that the volume limitations built into Hobby - 5 gates - will not be the deal that breaks the back of the Star Alliance at Bush Airport. And further, I propose that international service at Hobby will improve the overall, long term financial prospects of commercial passenger service providers in the Houston marketplace, while improving the product for customers.

The same goes for DFW & Love Field. The Legacy Alliances will have as painful a transition as they choose to make it, but pairing the gigantic airport with the small airport is an enviable business situation operators and users should be allowed to enjoy in these two population centers, a significant advantage for Texas. And I gotta throw this in: hopefully DFW Airport will be able to secure an major hub for SkyTeam. Having all three of the global airline alliances operating a major hub in Texas would be huge; it makes sense, at least to me!

[Tucy]

I was wondering how many total international gates Bush airport will have after the new $700 million terminal is finished. I'm proposing that the volume limitations built into Hobby - 5 gates - will not be the deal that breaks the back of the Star Alliance at Bush Airport. And further, I propose that international service at Hobby will improve the overall, long term financial prospects of commercial passenger service providers in the Houston marketplace, while improving the product for customers.

You are absolutely correct in your assumption about the relative size of the proposed facilities and service at HOU vs. that at IAH. (The more one learns, the more dishonest and ridiculous United looks). From the plans, it appears that the rebuilt Terminal B will have approximately 31 new gates capable of handling international arrivals (it looks like 10 of the new gates will not be international-capable). That is in addition to the existing 26 gates in Terminal E and 14 gates in Terminal D. PLUS, Terminal D may soon be expanded. Not sure how many additional gates will be added there.

So we are talking about Bush Airport with approximately 71 international arrival gates (with even more planned) vs. Hobby Airport with FIVE. Poor little United Airlines is quaking in their boots. LOL (Oh, to be sure United won't have exclusive use of all 71 of those gates. They will have exclusive use of and access to only 57 of those gates.) So...

United at IAH: 57 gates (with access to an additional 14 gates). Southwest at Hobby: 5 gates.

FWIW, the Chronicle article linked by LoneStarMike above, stating that Bush "offers [international] flights from 35 gates, has the numbers wrong and demonstrate the reporter's cluelessness. (No, surprise there, we're talking about the Chronicle, the most clueless major-city newspaper in the free world.) Terminal D gates are numbered 1-12 and Terminal E gates are numbered 1-23. They just added the two numbers together. They did not notice/are not aware/are not curious enough to bother digging into the facts to find that there are a number of gate numbers that actually have two gates (e.g., D4A and D4B; E15A and E15B). Further, they incorrectly stated that international flights are offered from 35 gates. In fact, international flights can be offered from pretty much any gate at the airport. It is only flight arrivals that are restricted to certain gates.

[TexasPlus]

How can you help? Take a moment and log onto www.freehobbyairport.com to learn more about the proposal and to voice your support to City of Houston Leadership! It’s time to open up the skies. It’s time to FREE HOBBY.

[TexasPlus]

By George F. Will, Friday, April 13, 6:16 PM

DALLAS
From his office window, Thomas W. Horton, in his fifth month as CEO of American Airlines, can see in the distance the Manhattan-size footprint of Dallas-Fort Worth airport, where American has 85 percent market share; it also has 68 percent in Miami, gateway to South America’s booming market. A few miles from here, however, sits one of the reasons why his company nevertheless entered bankruptcy recently — the corporate headquarters of Southwest Airlines.

Southwest, the most successful of the “low-cost” carriers that proliferated after the 1978 deregulation of the industry, has been profitable for 39 consecutive years, while the rest of the industry was losing $60 billion between deregulation and 2009. Southwest, JetBlue and the others have 30 percent of the domestic market, up from 10 percent in 1999. The “two-tier” airline industry is, however, becoming a thing of the past. All carriers are going to have low costs because of what Horton calls “fear-based discipline,” a.k.a. competition.

In the last three decades, there have been 192 airline bankruptcies. Not coincidentally, fares, adjusted for inflation, are 18 percent lower than in 2000. Forty years ago, a majority of Americans had never taken an airplane trip. Now everyone is more free than ever to move about the country, air travel having been democratized by liberating it from government.

In 1938, the Civil Aeronautics Act codified a government-managed cartel. Reason magazine’s Nick Gillespie and Matt Welch report that, 34 years later, United’s percentage of market share had gone from 22.9 to 22, Eastern’s from 14.9 to 11.6 and TWA’s from 15.1 to 11.9. Why this bureaucrat’s dream of near-stasis? Because between 1950 and 1974, the Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) received 79 applications for startup airlines and rejected them all, believing that if even one passenger would be taken from an existing carrier, competition would be excessive.

Intellectuals are often the last to learn things, so John Kenneth Galbraith, Harvard’s celebrity economist and one of liberalism’s pinups in the 1950s and 1960s, argued in his 1958 book “The Affluent Society” that modern marketing — advertising and other supposedly dark arts — is so powerful that big corporations could manufacture demand for whatever they manufactured. In 1958, Ford put all its marketing muscle behind the Edsel.

Undiscouraged by evidence, in 1967 Galbraith, full of the progressive’s enthusiasm for the administrative state, asserted in “The New Industrial State” that the U.S. economy would soon be dominated by large corporations essentially immune from competition and hence from market turbulence. Four years later, Southwest launched its first flight. The “legacy carriers” — those that had operated under the CAB regime — were in for heavy weather.

American bought TWA shortly before 9/11, adding capacity just when less capacity was suddenly required. American is the last of the six legacy carriers to enter bankruptcy. The other five are United and Continental, now merged, Delta and Northwest, also merged, and US Airways, which entered bankruptcy twice before merging with America West.

Airlines have resembled those local governments that have given unsustainable contracts to unionized public employees and now are contemplating bankruptcy. (Watch Stockton, Calif., which may soon be the biggest municipal bankruptcy since the Depression.) Bankruptcy has been a management tool for airlines that cannot stand strikes — there has been no strike at a major airline since 2005 — because they must amortize their aircraft even when not flying. Bankruptcy has enabled carriers to shred improvident contracts entered into to purchase labor peace.

If American’s pilots had the work rules covering Continental pilots before the merger with United, American could have hundreds fewer pilots, and more earnings: A senior captain flying a wide-body plane makes more than $200,000 a year and has rich pension and medical plans.

Horton has done taxpayers a favor by deciding not to turn American’s non-pilot pensions over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the deeply underfunded federal agency that would pay only a portion of what employees were expecting. American will pay benefits already accrued, but henceforth employees will have defined-contribution rather than defined-benefit plans.

Airline bankruptcies are peculiar: Just last July American bought $38 billion worth of new fuel-efficient aircraft. It takes money to save money and an airline.

Horton is imperturbably noncommittal about the possibility that the industry’s next consolidation will meld American with perhaps US Airways or Delta: “Our plan is to create the best outcome for our stakeholders.” Which is a nice way of saying, “Please leave your seatbelts fastened.” Turbulence is normal, and normally good for travelers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...xFT_print.html

Interesting article especially the points on nut case Galbraith.

[mjblazin]

Professor Galbraith simply made the mistake of extrapolating his most recent experiences, USA triumphant, almost all major competitors in still smoking ruins, high tax rates, large unionized industries handing out benefits everywhere, and assumed it would last forever. it was hard to imagine the unrelenting, unstoppable force of competition when you are Ali and everybody else has rickets. The people to fault are the twits that keep bringing up how great conditions were in the 50's and why we need to replicate them. They, with his son, a professor somewhere in south TX, take the prize for not having a clue.

American made the same mistake in the 90's assuming they would reward business travelers for getting expensive, high margin seats while their firms paid the piper. As everybody that spent 20 minutes looking at the situation realized, eventually companies will catch on and start using technology to control ticket usage or eliminate it. With every upturn after a recession, American kept hoping business travelers would go back to free spending, but it never happened. Once again, some extrapolated the brief recent experience into forecasts for several decades.

Now we see it with Apple,supposedly able to get margins of 35 per cent forever, while rest of industry gets five or 10 per cent. Eventually everyone goes to the mean. No one is special, no matter what they think.

[TexasPlus]

No one is special, no matter what they think.

You and I know that, but please be cautious about offending "progressives" by exposing them to historical facts.

[TexasPlus]

The relationship between Southwest Airlines and the Boeing 737 has gone back a long way. Recently, Southwest took delivery of their first Boeing 737-800. For the average person this might be a non-event. For those who realize that previously the airline only operated the smaller aircraft, this is an event worth celebrating. The 800 will allow the airline to operate more capacity on routes and the ETOPS certification will allow the 737-800 to take on destinations, like Hawaii. On the 800′s inaugural flight from Chicago Midway Airport (MDW) to Fort Lauderdale (FLL) my father was able to join along.

My dad, Butch Brown, is a huge Southwest Airlines fan (I think if he ever got a “B” boarding pass he would be so ashamed), so it made sense for him to check out the new plane, with the Boeing Sky Interior. Here is his report in his own words:

The technical facts on the new aircraft are well know: 28% more passengers, quieter and more spacious cabin, larger improved overhead storage bins, durable and comfortable seats, and of course the LED (light emitting diodes) that can portray different color schemes like a soft blue sky and a relaxing pallet of sunset colors. I was anxious to see for myself if these new innovations in look and feel will make a significant difference in my flying enjoyment.

I woke up at 4:30 am with great anticipation of my flight on Southwest’s new Boeing 737-800. This particular aircraft was dedicated and named “Warrior One” in salute of the Southwest Employees’ Warrior Spirit that reflects a “can-do” attitude. My flight aboard “Warrior One” from Chicago’s Midway Airport to Fort Lauderdale was the the aircraft’s maiden scheduled flight. It was to be a day of celebration.

Arriving at the Midway Airport departure gate for Warrior One was a scene made for a party: balloons, roulette game for passenger prizes, special breakfast treats and drinks, cheers from enthusiastic passengers and the opportunity to have your photo taken with “Little Miss 737″. On board the festivities continued with a raffle for prizes ranging from Warrior One ball caps to a free flight on Southwest Airlines.

There was a similar scene when we arrived at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. There was a water cannon salute as we taxied to our gate, followed by a walk through a forest of balloons and rousing applause and cheers from Southwest staff and departing passengers at the arrival gate. This was a very memorable flight indeed.

Now, to answer the question I originally posed before the flight, “am I a fan of the Sky Interior and Southwest’s new 737-800?”

The volume of living space has increased with the sky interior and it is notable. Sculpted ceiling, sloping storage bins, and reshaped window recesses make the cabin appear larger and add to the feel of spaciousness. These literally change your perspective on the real estate airline travelers call home for long periods of time. The Sky Interior has a way of making the narrow body 737 feel almost like a wide body.

I was a little skeptical with the new seats having less seat pitch, but the seat pockets have been moved upwards providing an increase in knee room, and life vests have been moved to the overhead so both legs fit comfortably under the seat in front of you.

Pivoted overhead bins means passengers don’t have to bend to prevent bumping their heads as they leave their seats. Another feature that passengers (and flight attendants) will appreciate are the intuitive placement of switches and call buttons. The reading-light switches and flight-attendant call button are easily identifiable and make it much less likely to accidentally press the flight-attendant call button.

Flying on Warrior One made you almost forget you were flying on a Southwest flight, but in a good way. The one factor that remains constant with Southwest and brought back the reality that this was indeed a Southwest flight was flight-attendants’ impeccable customer service. I have been on other Boeing 737-800s flying with other carriers, but what really made this one unique was the “Warrior One” Southwest Airlines crew. Am I a fan? Absolutely! How can one not be with this combination of new plane, great service and oh yes, bags still fly for free.

See the accompanying photos and full article @:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinerep...oeing-737-800/

[Hannibal Lecter]

^ Thanks for the post.

[PuddinHead]

Poor old man must be bored to death to get a rise out of a 737-800.

[Alex Rodriguez]

Poor old man must be bored to death to get a rise out of a 737-800.

It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.

[BigT3x]

It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.

Urm, Southwest flies plenty of "classic" 737s - same age as the MD80s. Furthermore, AA has been flying the exact same 737s with the new interior and reduced noise mentioned in this article for a while now.

[Double Wide]

But it doesn't seem like American is embracing them like Southwest is.

[PuddinHead]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...rs-attack.html


Houston council members attack study supporting Hobby international flights

ByTerry Maxon/Reporter
tmaxon@dallasnews.com | Bio

4:10 PM on Tue., Apr. 17, 2012 | Permalink
We don't know if Houston City Council members just didn't like the study that favors building an international terminal and customs facility at Houston Hobby Airport, or if they don't like the entire idea.

But, from media reports, it appears some certainly didn't like what they've seen so far about the Hobby proposal, being pushed by Southwest Airlines.

Here's the top of a Houston Chronicle story out of Monday's committee meeting:

A consultant's study that forecasts an economic boon for Houston if Hobby is made into an international airport came under fire from city council members Monday as "biased" and "custom-made just to satisfy the demand of Southwest" Airlines, which is asking the city for permission to build a $100 million Customs facility and five-gate expansion at Hobby.

In a three-hour grilling of Houston Airports Director Mario Diaz, council members complained that the numbers in the study strained credulity, that they were kept in the dark about Southwest's pitch for at least eight months, that airport officials have been condescending and that council and others should have been asked for input before Diaz recommended approval of the Hobby expansion.


"Many council members were visibly angry with the way the proposal was handled, arguing that the aviation director had reached a conclusion without adequately consulting with all the people involved," KHOU-TV reported.

"'You all have blown it, in my view,' said Councilmember C.O. Bradford. 'This rollout has simply been a disaster.'"

One thing that stuck out for council members was the study's estimates of traffic generation. The Chronicle story noted that the study made an estimate of passenger traffic between Houston Hobby and Bogota, Colombia, based on a $133 one-way fare.

By comparison, Southwest's average one-way fare between Dallas and Houston in Q3 2011 was $156.04, according to financial analyst Bob Herbst of AirlineFinancials.com.

[TexasPlus]

9. Herb Kelleher
herb_kelleher.jpg
Fly Herb: Kelleher with friend at Love Field in Dallas in 1994

Company: Southwest Airlines
Sales: $15.6 billion
Market Value: $6.4 billion
Employees: 45,392
Advice: Make your employees No. 1.

When Herb Kelleher took an aptitude test at Wesleyan University, where he majored in English, he was told that there were three things he was best suited for: working as a journalist, an editor, or a lawyer. Kelleher chose law, and it was a good thing. It would take five long years of often tortuous litigation by competitors to get Southwest Airlines out of court and into the air in June 1971.

In an industry plagued by vast amounts of red ink, Southwest marked its 39th consecutive year of profitability in 2011, a feat unmatched in U.S. aviation history. What's more, Kelleher, 81, proved that you could still charge low fares and be nicely profitable. Southwest is not only the largest U.S. domestic airline but also responsible, as one economist noted, for 90% of the low-fare airline business that exists in America.

How did Kelleher do it? He kept costs extraordinarily low and customer service high -- and he did both by creating a culture that respected the people he carefully hired. Like Sam Walton, he understood that front-line personnel can either make you or break you. And Kelleher got his people to sign on to the program through profit-sharing plans and stock options that made employees feel and act like owners. It separated Southwest from the pack.

"Years ago," he once told an interviewer, "the business schools used to pose it as a conundrum. They would say, `Well, who comes first? Your employees, your shareholders, or your customers?' But it's not a conundrum. Your employees come first. And if you treat your employees right, guess what? Your customers come back, and that makes your shareholders happy. Start with employees and the rest follows from that."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/...ortune/10.html

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/...une/index.html

Top 50 Most Admired Companies
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...hots/2068.html

Just a few recent recognitions among the many frequently awarded to Southwest and its people.

[grantboston]

But it doesn't seem like American is embracing them like Southwest is.

What is that supposed to mean?

[aygriffith]

It's probably because he had just finished gettting off one of AMRs McDonnell Dinosaur -80s. Nothing like not being able to carry on a conversation with another human being anywhere behind row 15.

Most legacies are flying planes as old as the AA MD-80/83's. Delta has been buying MD-90's from anyone who will sell them one. They're hoping to pickup 50 over the next few years. They also have been redoing the 88 interiors to match the 90's.

AA has done a poor job keeping their Mad Dogs comfortable. But as a plane type they're incredibly versatile. I'm interested to see what is done with Airtran's 80ish 717's. Those would be a great and bargain way to revitalize someone's old short haul fleet.


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