Southwest & American Airlines

[UptownDallas]

Just laughing at the prevelent anti American additude present on this forum.

No good press for AA goes unchallenged.

Well, I think it's great that AA is trying this out.

[TexasPlus]

No good press for AA goes unchallenged.

Perhaps you simply missed the TITLE of this thread. "Comparing Southwest & American Airlines"

The http://www.thefreedictionary.com/comparing lists the following as it's defenition of "Comparing"

thefreedictionary.com
com·pare (km-pâr)
v. com·pared, com·par·ing, com·pares
v.tr.
1. To consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; liken.
2. To examine in order to note the similarities or differences of.
3. Grammar To form the positive, comparative, or superlative degree of (an adjective or adverb).
v.intr.
1. To be worthy of comparison; bear comparison: two concert halls that just do not compare.
2. To draw comparisons.
n.
Comparison: a musician beyond compare.
Idiom:
compare notes
To exchange ideas, views, or opinions.
[Middle English comparen, from Old French comparer, from Latin comparre, from compr, equal : com-, com- + pr, equal; see per-2 in Indo-European roots.]
com·parer n.
Usage Note: Compare usually takes the preposition to when it refers to the activity of describing the resemblances between unlike things: He compared her to a summer day. Scientists sometimes compare the human brain to a computer. It takes with when it refers to the act of examining two like things in order to discern their similarities or differences: The police compared the forged signature with the original. The committee will have to compare the Senate's version of the bill with the version that was passed by the House. When compare is used to mean "to liken (one) with another," with is traditionally held to be the correct preposition: That little bauble is not to be compared with (not to) this enormous jewel. But to is frequently used in this context and is not incorrect.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. comparingcomparing - examining resemblances or differences
comparison
examination, scrutiny - the act of examining something closely (as for mistakes)
likening - the act of comparing similarities
analogy - drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect; "the operation of a computer presents and interesting analogy to the working of the brain"; "the models show by analogy how matter is built up"
collation - careful examination and comparison to note points of disagreement
confrontation - a focussed comparison; bringing together for a careful comparison
contrast - the act of distinguishing by comparing differences

[JasonDallas]

Just laughing at the prevelent anti American additude present on this forum.

No good press for AA goes unchallenged.

As is everyone else laughing at your anti-Southwest attitude and your resulting attitude toward Dallas Love Field. The only difference is, we know why you feel this way, years of whoring yourself out has accumulated you lots of AAdvantage miles.

Jason

[PuddinHead]

As is everyone else laughing at your anti-Southwest attitude and your resulting attitude toward Dallas Love Field. The only difference is, we know why you feel this way, years of whoring yourself out has accumulated you lots of AAdvantage miles.

Jason

How do you presume to know if anyone on this board has any miles on AA or any other airline?

How do you presume to know which airline any of us fly on more frequently than than any other?

[UptownDallas]

American Airlines has received two awards in Global Traveler magazine' annual "Wines on the Wing" Class Airline Wine Competition.

It nabbed first place in the "Best International Business Class White Wine" category, for its J. Wegeler-Erben Riesling Spatlese Bernkasteler Doctor 2004; and second place in the "Best International Business Class Red Wine" for its Chateau Batailley Pauillac 2003.

The competition was a blind taste test with 25 airlines submitting two white wines, two reds, and one sparkler, a tasting organized by Global Traveler's wine columnist Eunice Fried, with 36 independent judges participating.

American Airlines' wine consultant is Diane Teitelbaum, an international wine-judging professional, connoisseur, and columnist based in Dallas. Recently, American announced that First and Business Class customers onboard transcontinental flights can savor specific wine recommendations -- offered by Teitelbaum -- with select premium cabin menu entrees.

For those flying in First and Business Class, American maintains 15 different wine lists specially selected for various routes. The airline changes its wine list regularly and produces an online pamphlet describing each route's selections. For more information and to view the current list of American's award-winning wines, please visit www.aa.com/wine

Earlier this year, American received accolades for its wine program in the "Cellars in the Sky 2006 Awards" conducted by Business Traveller and Wine & Spirit magazine, winning "Best First Class Wine Cellar" for overall selection, and "Wild Card Wine" for its Lustau La Plaza Vieja sherry.

[St-T]

^Awesome!!

[dfwcre8tive]

Southwest on pace to top AA in traffic
08:04 AM CDT on Friday, August 17, 2007
Associated Press
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ic.18def5.html

WASHINGTON – Southwest Airlines Co. is on pace to unseat American Airlines this year as the world's biggest airline, measured by passenger traffic.

The domestic-only discount carrier already has eclipsed American's combined domestic and international traffic during the first five months of 2007, according to a government tally released Thursday.

Southwest carried 40.3 million passengers on domestic routes between January and May, an increase of 4.2 percent from last year.

"We're thrilled to watch our customer base grow," said Brandy King, a Southwest spokewoman, who attributed the growth to the company's tradition of friendly customer service. "With so many airlines offering low fares, I think customer service makes all the difference in the world."

American, owned by AMR Corp., carried 40 million passengers during the January-May period, down 1.8 percent from last year's levels. American's international traffic for that five month period was 8.7 million, up 0.3 percent in the first five months; its domestic traffic of 31.3 million was down 2.4 percent.

Last year, Dallas-based Southwest was the No. 2 airline worldwide, according to International Air Transport Association passenger traffic statistics. It carried about 96.3 million passengers, ranking behind Fort Worth, Texas-based American, which carried about 100 million passengers.

[UptownDallas]

Southwest on pace to top AA in traffic
08:04 AM CDT on Friday, August 17, 2007
Associated Press
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ic.18def5.html

Thanks to the Wright Amendment, the citizens of Dallas have missed out on virtually all the benefits associated with this phenomenal growth story.

[Tnekster]

So is the increased traffic at Love a significant contributing factor into SW passing AA?

[lpepping]

do we know how much the traffic has increased at Love Field?

[UptownDallas]

do we know how much the traffic has increased at Love Field?

Southwest passenger traffic is up 30% with minimal new flights.

AA appears to be in the latter stages of pulling out entirely.

[UptownDallas]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...-reports_N.htm

The divergence in Dallas

American's notable decline in systemwide reliability in recent months continued in June. But American officials are quick to blame those aforementioned North Texas storms, which created havoc at its Dallas/Fort Worth hub. Plausible as that one-month excuse may sound, the numbers may not support it. Why? Just 12 miles away at Dallas/Love Field, where Southwest Airlines is king, the weather apparently wasn't as much of an obstacle. Because of the way the DOT reports the numbers, exact comparisons are difficult. But consider: American ran at 57.5% on-time at DFW and American Eagle was at 53.1%. At Love, however, the airport managed a 66.4% on-time rating—and virtually all of the flights there are operated by Southwest. DOT does not break out cancellations by airport, but American Eagle cancelled 5.9% of its systemwide flights in June while American cancelled 3.7% of its flights. But Southwest cancelled just 0.4% of its June flights. If the weather was such a distracting factor in Dallas, why were American/American Eagle's cancellations so large and Southwest's so small?

[PuddinHead]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...-reports_N.htm

The divergence in Dallas

American's notable decline in systemwide reliability in recent months continued in June. But American officials are quick to blame those aforementioned North Texas storms, which created havoc at its Dallas/Fort Worth hub. Plausible as that one-month excuse may sound, the numbers may not support it. Why? Just 12 miles away at Dallas/Love Field, where Southwest Airlines is king, the weather apparently wasn't as much of an obstacle. Because of the way the DOT reports the numbers, exact comparisons are difficult. But consider: American ran at 57.5% on-time at DFW and American Eagle was at 53.1%. At Love, however, the airport managed a 66.4% on-time rating—and virtually all of the flights there are operated by Southwest. DOT does not break out cancellations by airport, but American Eagle cancelled 5.9% of its systemwide flights in June while American cancelled 3.7% of its flights. But Southwest cancelled just 0.4% of its June flights. If the weather was such a distracting factor in Dallas, why were American/American Eagle's cancellations so large and Southwest's so small?

Had the same number of storms with the same severity tracked directly over Love Field as what tracked directly over DFW Southwest would have had cancellations proportional to the number of flights handled by the airport just like what American experienced at DFW.

[TexasPlus]

Had the same number of storms with the same severity tracked directly over Love Field as what tracked directly over DFW Southwest would have had cancellations proportional to the number of flights handled by the airport just like what American experienced at DFW.

Are you saying that unless a storm tracks "directly over" an airport, it won't cause flight cancellations?

:huhcld:


What about flight delays, does your theory apply equally to flight delays?

[PuddinHead]

Are you saying that unless a storm tracks "directly over" an airport, it won't cause flight cancellations?

:huhcld:


What about flight delays, does your theory apply equally to flight delays?

Aren't you the aviation insider/guru/airline ceo? Tell us how many ground stops were issued for DAL as compared to DFW?

Flight delays can be caused by damned near anything weather included.

[DallasNative]

Had the same number of storms with the same severity tracked directly over Love Field as what tracked directly over DFW Southwest would have had cancellations proportional to the number of flights handled by the airport just like what American experienced at DFW.

Let's say for just a moment that there is some truth to your theory that the storms had an unequal impact to operability of each airport (8 miles apart). This is yet another reason why its a bad idea to concentrate all airline operations at one airport.

[tamtagon]

I think it's engaging to compare these two airlines, and the arguements can be interesting, but I really like dwelling on the fact that the worlds' two busiest airlines are both based in North Texas.

[interestedobserver]

Let's say for just a moment that there is some truth to your theory that the storms had an unequal impact to operability of each airport (8 miles apart). This is yet another reason why its a bad idea to concentrate all airline operations at one airport.

True, but this idea is complicated in terms of managing air traffic patterns and flow when the 'reliever' airport is only 8 miles away with different runway headings.

[UptownDallas]

True, but this idea is complicated in terms of managing air traffic patterns and flow when the 'reliever' airport is only 8 miles away with different runway headings.

Agreed. But "complicated" doesn't equal "bad."

[interestedobserver]

Agreed. But "complicated" doesn't equal "bad."

When you can't have as many planes taking off and landing per hour because of these flow complications, that isn't a plus in my book.

[TexasPlus]

When you can't have as many planes taking off and landing per hour because of these flow complications, that isn't a plus in my book.

Keep in mind most of the (as you put it) "flow complications" are on DAL, not DFW.

But RNP will relive that in a big way, and not only at DAL but system wide. You may recall my previous posting on RNP.
Southwest has taken the lead in committing to a rapid fleet/route wide implementation of this new technology.
I guess the rest of the (cash strapped) airlines will play catchup in a few years.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...aw052107p2.xml

http://www.naverus.com/Customers/Southwest.htm

Goggle Southwest RNP for more info

[interestedobserver]

Keep in mind most of the (as you put it) "flow complications" are on DAL, not DFW.

But RNP will relive that in a big way, and not only at DAL but system wide. You may recall my previous posting on RNP.
Southwest has taken the lead in committing to a rapid fleet/route wide implementation of this new technology.
I guess the rest of the (cash strapped) airlines will play catchup in a few years.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...aw052107p2.xml

http://www.naverus.com/Customers/Southwest.htm

Goggle Southwest RNP for more info

Thanks for the info and links. RNP sounds like it will definitely help with delays and cancellations. Good news.

[TexasPlus]

http://claranet.scu.edu/tempfiles/tm...ecomplaint.pdf

American isn't thrilled that competitors and travel sites can bid on its company name as a keyword. Though the competitor-keyword argument has been made before, this may be a first where the plaintiff cites online retailers selling competitor wares.

It would appear, if the suit were successful, Coke could sue television stations advertising that 7-11 sells Pepsi too.

American complains that competitor keyword bidding and the ad display associated with the keywords are tantamount to getting a "free ride on American Airlines' brands through use of Google's technology," and that Google is guilty of "vicarious trademark infringement."

In the 55-page complaint, American asserts that "Google's 'Sponsored Links' may instead redirect [searchers] to: (i) websites of airlines that compete with American Airlines; (ii) websites that sell air travel not only on American Airlines, but also on a variety of airlines that compete with American Airlines; or (iii) websites that are entirely unrelated air travel."

It may be the second argument that's disturbing to many. Technology and Law Blog's Eric Goldman is also skeptical:

http://www.webpronews.com/insiderrep...oogle-to-court


…my working theory is that this was not a good lawsuit for American Airlines to bring. I've noted many times before that lawsuits over consumer "diversion" often cost more than the lost profits from the allegedly diverted consumers.

http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives...can_airlin.htm

[Geaux Tigers]

I saw this at American's web site...

American Will Be First U.S. Airline to Launch AirCell's Real-Time Broadband Connectivity

American Airlines has signed a memorandum of intent with AirCell, LLC, to be the first U.S. airline to test the capability of providing passengers with AirCell's high-speed broadband connectivity. The test will be conducted in 2008 on American's Boeing 767-200 aircraft that primarily fly transcontinental routes.

"We understand that broadband connectivity is important to our business customers and others who want to use their PDAs and laptops for real-time, inflight broadband communications," said Dan Garton, American's Executive Vice President - Marketing. "This is part of our continuing effort to enhance the travel experience for our customers and meet their evolving needs."

The solution will provide passengers with a high-speed Internet connection, VPN access and e-mail capabilities through Wi-Fi-enabled laptops and PDA devices. The system has the ability to adapt as technology evolves. The technology will be available in all classes of the B767-200 aircraft for a fee. If the connectivity solution is successful, it could be extended to the rest of American's domestic fleet.

"We are excited to provide solutions that will give American Airlines passengers the opportunity to make high-speed Internet connections from unprecedented heights," Garton said. "We consider it a 30,000-foot answer to many of our business travelers' needs."

The technology from AirCell is subject to strict requirements set forth by the Federal Aviation Administration through an exclusive license from the Federal Communications Commission. Both agencies oversee the use of broadband and wireless signals by aircraft flying over the continental United States.

The technology will use three antennas installed on the outside of the aircraft (two on the bottom of the aircraft and one on top.) AirCell will provide cellular towers throughout the continental United States to transmit the signal. The signals received inside the cabin will be 802.11a/b/g Wi-Fi signals.

This is the latest in a series of moves by American in the past two years to enhance the customer experience by investing in its terminals, products, global route network, and services. Always at the forefront of technology in the industry, American was the first airline to liberalize its cell-phone policy and among the first airlines to introduce global satellite phone service on international flights.

[downtownguy25]

I have never understood this thread. Its like comparing apples and oranges. If I want a direct flight to London its an easy choice, AA. When I want to be treated like cattle, I will fly cowboywest again.

[TexasPlus]

I have never understood this thread. Its like comparing apples and oranges. If I want a direct flight to London its an easy choice, AA. When I want to be treated like cattle, I will fly cowboywest again.

Perhaps the reason Southwest is always at or near the top in customer satisfaction year after year is because they do not offer the AAmerican standard... "Service with a Snarl" (SWAS).

As far as being treated like cattle I have never felt that way more than the last four times we were standing in the long AAmerican check in lines at DFW. We were flying to the Caribbean via San Juan, and the CS agents constant barking at the folks waiting in line was most revolting. On the flights themselves, the cabin crews were mostly indifferent to the passengers. It was much the same three years ago retuning from Amsterdam via Gatwick to DFW. The BA leg out of Amsterdam was great friendly service, the AAmerican Gatwick to DFW leg was standard SWAS.

To someone used to the friendly atmosphere of the entire Southwest experience the contrast is always startling.

Your millage may vary, but that has been mine...

[downtownguy25]

Flight attendants play off of their passengers. If you are nice and respectable they will be the same. I have never had an issue with a flight attendant nor anyone on a plane. The issue I have is there is a location I would rather sit on a plane, yet you can not pick your seat on cowboywest. I also refuse to have people file past me, standing around me, thus I am always the last one to board a flight. Which makes for interesting times when you do not have an assigned seat.

[UptownDallas]

Flight attendants play off of their passengers. If you are nice and respectable they will be the same. I have never had an issue with a flight attendant nor anyone on a plane.

I was Executive Platinum on AA for years and could tell literally dozens of stories of mis-directed anger, passive-aggressive episodes, etc. directed by staff towards innocent passengers.

Indeed, AA produced an in-house training video which documented a lot of the more "standardized" techniques of harrassment.

The issue I have is there is a location I would rather sit on a plane, yet you can not pick your seat on cowboywest.

Unless you book a year in advance, you can't pick any seat you want on American, either. You simply get to pick an available seat from the seating chart on their website.

Boarding in the A group on Southwest, I find that my choice of seats is far greater than what I can get by using the advance seat selector feature on AA.

I also refuse to have people file past me, standing around me, thus I am always the last one to board a flight.

This seems like the bigger issue, and you might indeed like AA better... where the staff tend to share your anti-social tendencies.

[PuddinHead]

[indent]

This seems like the bigger issue, and you might indeed like AA better... where the staff tend to share your anti-social tendencies.

It's official only people with psychopathic personality disorders like American Airlines.

:roflmao2:

[DallasNative]

I have never understood this thread. Its like comparing apples and oranges. If I want a direct flight to London its an easy choice, AA. When I want to be treated like cattle, I will fly cowboywest again.

It's been my experience, and I'd say shared by 90% of the traveling public, that you fly AA when there is no other nonstop alternative and you fly Southwest as your first nonstop preference.

[grantboston]

It's been my experience, and I'd say shared by 90% of the traveling public, that you fly AA when there is no other nonstop alternative and you fly Southwest as your first nonstop preference.

Most people pick their flights based on price, especially if they are footing the bill.

Other than that, corporate contracts, schedule availability, frequent flyer perks tend to have quite a bit of sway. I don't think it's a realistic or fair comparison to assume that people pick from Southwest and AA as if none of those factors have any say in the equation. Especially for 90% of people.

[lpepping]

I basically use the following thought process:

1. Does Southwest fly non-stop there? (This isn't because I hate AA or anything. It more has to do with the price and convenience of Love Field.)
2. If not, I go with AA due to frequent flyer miles. (Typically, the price between AA and others out of DFW are not too drastic but if they are then yes I would fly some other airline)

[dfwcre8tive]

Here's a funny photo from a recent trip from St Louis to Love Field on AA.

Notice anything wrong with the destination sign?

[TexasPlus]

Here's a funny photo from a recent trip from St Louis to Love Field on AA.

Notice anything wrong with the destination sign?

Looks fine to me. ipe:

[urban_bearkat]

All I see is a nonstop flight from St. Louis to Southwest's ticker symbol.

[dfwcre8tive]

All I see is a nonstop flight from St. Louis to Southwest's ticker symbol.

You got it. On AA, ironically.

[grantboston]

So now we just need to keep a lookout for a Southwest flight to Amarillo (AMA) misidentified as AMR, right?

[St-T]

^No... that was an AMERICAN flight flying to Dallas (DAL) Love. I assume you know that LUV is the NYSE ticker for Southwest. That is what makes it ironic.

[tamtagon]

I wonder if someone in St Louis got in trouble for that "mistake." pretty funny

[TexasPlus]

I wonder if someone in St Louis got in trouble for that "mistake." pretty funny

There is so much open discontent from the rank and file toward management at AAmerican, that this likely was not a mistake.

[downtownguy25]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bh3XDMzcdtU

[UptownDallas]

July airline flights stuck for more than 3 hours before takeoff:

American Airlines - 28
American Eagle - 15
Total AA - 43

Total Southwest - 8

[saxman66]

I wonder if someone in St Louis got in trouble for that "mistake." pretty funny

That is very funny. But if you also notice, its an American Connection flight. That means its Chautaqua or Trans States. So it was most likely one of their employees that did that. I bet it was some dumb*** that thought thats how it's spelled.

[dfwcre8tive]

American Airlines seat designer wants to give you space
American's seat designer constantly figures how to make fliers comfy
11:16 PM CDT on Monday, October 8, 2007
By SUZANNE MARTA / The Dallas Morning News
smarta@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.35ac443.html

Next time you're squirming around in your seat on an American Airlines flight, don't blame Jim Hadden if you don't have enough legroom.

Mr. Hadden, the head of American's cabin design, isn't in charge of how many seats are crammed onboard.

He just has to figure out how to make them as comfortable as possible.

And when it comes to the passenger in front of you tilting his seat back into your lunch – well, he's working on it.

In his long career, Mr. Hadden, 64, has eked as much comfort as possible out of corporate jet cabins and passenger planes for Braniff International Airways, Continental Airlines Inc., Northwest Airlines Inc. and American.

"My mission is to maximize living space," said Mr. Hadden, who rarely sits still even in his office.

In the airplane business, creating more space for passengers means shaving as little as an eighth of an inch from an armrest or center aisle.

"It's all about chasing inches," Mr. Hadden said. Finding an inch of space is "like finding a diamond."

Over the years, Mr. Hadden has designed overhead bins, upholstery, armrests, expandable work trays, lie-flat seats and swivel seats.

He even designed a sleek, curved stand-up bar for American's Tokyo-bound Boeing 747.

"I had to go to a lot of bars to get that design right," Mr. Hadden joked.

He and his five-person team have been busy lately.

As American's balance sheet continues to strengthen after its flirtation with bankruptcy in 2003, attention has turned back to upgrading its seats, overhead bins and even the flight attendant carts.

Last summer, American launched the Boeing 777 business-class seat, a revamped version of the one the carrier used on its 767-300 fleet. The upgraded seats, which fly on transcontinental and international routes, were an important investment for American, which had been criticized for offering inferior premium cabins compared with its international peers.

Now the attention is turning to the coach cabin for American's fleet of 737s – whose seats haven't been updated since 1990 – and its 757s, which will debut new seats at the end of 2008.

Mr. Hadden's job is not easy. After all, Americans have been getting larger, and it's not as if you can expand the fuselage.

And these days, as the industry's paper-thin profit margins put more emphasis on filling planes and less on giving passengers more wiggle room, even Mr. Hadden admits he doesn't enjoy flying.

Industry sage

Aircraft design requires a flair for design as well as a solid grounding in engineering.

"Jim is one of the great sages in the industry," said Klaus Brauer, director of passenger satisfaction and revenue for Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

Unlike other engineering challenges, "comfort is something that isn't quantifiable," Mr. Brauer said. "You have to know what has been tried and what doesn't work from experience. That's where Jim and a few others in the industry are really tremendous assets."

Mr. Hadden got his start in the aircraft interiors business in 1965 as a senior design draftsman for Braniff.

During his time there, he worked with artist Alexander Calder on the airline's Bicentennial Airplane, a project that presented some unexpected challenges.

Upon arriving at Mr. Calder's studio outside Paris, Mr. Hadden was presented with several scale models of the swirling, colorful design.

"There weren't any drawings," he said.

It was up to Mr. Hadden to find a way to transfer the trademark Calder design to the outside of a plane.

"There were no straight lines," Mr. Hadden said, making the job exceptionally difficult.

He ended up tracing the model on graph paper, blowing up the design to fit the plane, perforating the key lines and painting over the holes to create a guide.

That kind of creative thinking, Mr. Hadden's peers in the industry say, is his hallmark.

Boeing's Mr. Brauer, who has worked with Mr. Hadden for 15 years, said he regularly seeks out Mr. Hadden's feedback on projects.

"Jim was one of the first people outside Boeing who got an initial look at the 787 architecture," Mr. Brauer said. "It was one of those meetings where I walked away reassured that we were on the right track."

Stan Fisher, a marketing director for C&D Zodiac's retrofit business, said Mr. Hadden brings an unparalleled sophistication to his job.

Exacting in detail

Unlike other customers who send wish lists or design renderings, Mr. Hadden "will give you exact dimensions," Mr. Fisher said. "He knows what works and is very technical."

Mr. Fisher said Mr. Hadden was one of the first to recognize that overhead bins needed to be larger as travelers started to carry more luggage onboard.

"He's very intuitive about what passengers need," he said.

Many of Mr. Hadden's innovations have set standards for the industry. An example is the Flagship Suites, which were installed into the first-class cabins of American's 777 fleet starting in 2000.

The swiveling, lie-flat seating and workspace pods were American's answer to British Airways' luxe first-class seating. They took five years and $1 million in mock-up designs to develop.

"One million dollars is a lot of money – but not if you make a big mistake," Mr. Hadden said.

Mr. Brauer said designing a swiveling first-class seat is an example of Mr. Hadden's keen understanding of what passengers need during the flight.

"That seat really stood out," he said.

Not all of Mr. Hadden's ideas work, of course.

Mr. Brauer recalls one idea his longtime friend had for staggering seats so passengers wouldn't feel so close to their neighbors. While it meant more room for the seats on the aisle and the window, "it ended up being worse for the person in the middle."

Then there were the sheepskin seat covers in business class. Passengers loved them because they were comfortable and make the seat look wider. Unfortunately, they were too hard to clean and soon took on a matted look.

Pivotal seat

Mr. Hadden spends a lot of time in his personal shop, where he devotes energy to his first love, muscle cars.

That's also where he worked on his greatest innovation – a patented airplane seat that didn't fly but influenced ones that followed.

The 1989 coach seat featured an articulating chair that moved in its own space, rather than abruptly tilting back into the passenger one row back.

"It was too expensive at the time," Mr. Hadden said. "The coach seat business is cutthroat. It's all about cheap because airfares are so low."

Now, though, the concept of a seat moving in its own space is being used in premium cabins – most recently in the Boeing 777 business-class seat that American debuted last summer.

It may soon make an appearance in the coach-class cabin, as American updates its Boeing interiors.

It's one of many features Mr. Hadden and his team are trying to work into the plane's new seating.

And the seat's armrests may be a tad narrower.

"We're talking about one-eighth of an inch," Mr. Hadden said. "You can't be drastic about it, but we're trying to put the space where the customer wants it."

He offered only one other hint about possible changes to the new 757 seat. The aircraft brochures and in-flight magazine will move to a new small pocket toward the top of the seat, leaving an empty pocket near the bottom for personal items.

"That way, if you want to decrease your living space by stuffing the pocket, you're the one doing it, not me," he said.

No rocking chair

After 42 years in the industry, Mr. Hadden said he doesn't have any plans to slow down.

Although American hasn't placed any orders for Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, he's given it a solid look-over.

"I'm never out of work," he said. "Retirement is not in my plans."

[TexasPlus]

Associated Press
Pilots' Union Boss Blasts Airline CEO
By DAVID KOENIG 10.10.07, 9:26 AM ET

DALLAS -

The president of the pilots' union at American Airlines ripped the company's chief executive in a letter that ended with a threat to "see you in court, in the newspapers, and on the picket line."

More at:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts

[PuddinHead]

Wow what a chance Southwest is taking. Before it expected its customers to be able to identfy the first three letters in the alphabet and be smart enough to get in the correct line. Now they expect them to get in the correct line and be able to count too???

:roflmao2:

[DallasNative]

Wow what a chance Southwest is taking. Before it expected its customers to be able to identfy the first three letters in the alphabet and be smart enough to get in the correct line. Now they expect them to get in the correct line and be able to count too???

:roflmao2:

Counting comes easy to Southwest customers as they're used to counting all the money they save by not flying AA.

[PuddinHead]

That is good since they will be spending the money they saved on fares to buy gas to get to those out of the way airports Southwest flies from. Before you say it......


Dallas is the exception.

[UptownDallas]

That is good since they will be spending the money they saved on fares to buy gas to get to those out of the way airports Southwest flies from. Before you say it......


Dallas is the exception.

Well, no one is forcing these folks to fly Southwest. Good thing they don't take AA's approach and try to lean on Congress to force passengers to fly from the airports they serve.

Freedom of choice, a competitive marketplace... I know, that's crazy talk here in Dallas. Believe it or not, it actually works pretty well in the rest of the U.S. and most of the world.

[freewaytincan]

That is good since they will be spending the money they saved on fares to buy gas to get to those out of the way airports Southwest flies from. Before you say it......


Dallas is the exception.

You don't know what you're talking about. How is Houston Hobby out of the way? Or other cities that only have one major airport?