Page 19 of 26 FirstFirst ... 567891011121314151617181920212223242526 LastLast
Results 901 to 950 of 1266

Thread: Southwest & American Airlines

  1. #901
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896
    Interesting article from one of the few reporters that stuck with facts, rather than embellish with ignorance.

    Reader wonders why we're not reporting much on Southwest Airlines' maintenance problems
    By Terry Maxon/Reporter
    6:00 AM on Wed., Apr. 6, 2011

    I received this email Tuesday afternoon:

    Mr. Maxon

    I am an avid reader of your articles concerning the airlines. I was wondering why you haven't said too much about the serious maintence problems that South West Airlines is having with their 737's.

    I travel a lot and am worried about their safety since the Boeing 737 is the only jet they have and their average age of their fleet is 19 years old. The investigators are saying this is a metal fatgue problem that normally comes with age of the aircraft. Is there any reason why you are not saying too much about this? If this were another airline would you say more about it? As readers we need more unbiased opinions from experts like yourself. What we don't need is sugar coating! Thank you for your response.

    From a Concerned reader.

    Let me throw out these points.

    1. The average age of Southwest Airlines' Boeing 737s as of Dec. 31 was 11 years. The Boeing 737-300s that have been in the news have an average age of 19 years. The majority of Southwest's fleet is comprised of Boeing 737-700s, which averaged 7 years.

    2. Among the five largest carriers in fleet size, Southwest's fleet age is the lowest. Delta's average is 15.6 years; American's is 15 (like Southwest, it rounds its age to a whole number); US Airways' average is 12.3 years; and United Continental's average is 12.0 years.

    3. Southwest's Boeing 737-300s rank 10th among the oldest types in the airlines' fleets. The oldest are the Douglas DC-9s that Delta picked up in the Northwest Airlines' merger, average age 34.1 years. Delta will be parking those airplanes soon. Seventh oldest are Southwest's 737-500s, tied with American's MD-80s which also average 20 years.

    4. From people like me, you don't need unbiased opinion. You need unbiased reporting. I shouldn't be putting my opinion in my stories.

    5. If this were another airline, I'd be saying less. North Texas readers care more about Southwest Airlines and American Airlines than they do about JetBlue or Delta, and we try to report more closely on Southwest and American..

    6. The issue on metal fatigue is the number of takeoff and landing cycles, not years. Southwest's airplanes as a rule operate more cycles over a given period of time than most other mainline carriers. So I'd say that if you want to worry, worry about the cycles issue.

    7. The Dallas Morning News reported aggressively on the FAA/maintenance issues in 2008, and we're trying to be aggressive on this story, too.

    8. Many people have said that the Boeing 737-300 damaged last Friday must have been the result of Southwest's practice of outsourcing some of its maintenance to places like El Salvador. The NTSB said that airplane underwent its March 2010 heavy maintenance check in Dallas.

    9. You may believe that the airplane developed a hole because of shoddy maintenance, but I can't report that because that's not what the evidence is showing so far. I can't make it up.

    10. Boeing said there was no inspection requirement for the lap joint where the split occurred, and Boeing didn't think one would be needed for some time. That's the problem we face when cracks appear where the aircraft manufacturer didn't expect cracks. Should we ding Southwest for not doing the eddy current test on the lap joint when Boeing had not yet recommended such a test?

    11. The NTSB said the jet in question had had all required maintenance work and inspections done, its papers were in order and there were no outstanding maintenance items.

    12. As of this time, I've written five stories for the DMN, four stories for dallasnews.com and, including this item, 12 blog items about the airplane accident and subsequent events. But I haven't written that there are "serious maintenance problems at Southwest Airlines," which you would like to see.

    We'll keep working the story and see where it takes us.

    I think the basic question, restated, was: Why aren't you a better reporter?

    Sigh. I ask myself that every day. I'm working on it, as I have for the past 38 years.

    (As a side note, the name in the email address seems to be the same as that of a commercial airline pilot. But that may just be a coincidence.)

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...re-not-re.html
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  2. #902
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    AMR executive pay is 'red hot poker' in employees' eyes

    My experience on recent AA flights (DFW, MIA, SXM, TPA) showed service with a snarl attitude was alive and well at 3 domestic airports. In SXM the attitude was great and upbeat, one would have thought we were with a totally different airline. I doubt this info released over a semi-holiday weekend is going to improve AA management/employee relations.

    TWU: AMR executive pay is 'red hot poker' in employees' eyes
    By Terry Maxon/Reporter

    tmaxon@dallasnews.com

    12:11 PM on Fri., Apr. 22, 2011

    On Thursday when we had to take a day off, AMR released its proxy statement showing what the top executives made.

    Using the valuation methods that companies use, chairman and chief executive Gerard Arpey earned $5,952,675 in 2010: $669,646 in salary; no bonus; $94,660 for personal allowance, free travel and family security; $3,280,680 in stock awards he may receive in the future and $1,185,940 in stock options.

    The total is up 5.7 percent from the $5,631,002 compensation package he received in 2009, AMR said.

    Other 2010 compensation totals were AMR president Tom Horton, $3,695,621; executive vice president Dan Garton, $2,908,090; EVP Bob Reding, $2,754,08; general counsel Gary Kennedy, $2,179,526; and CFO Bella Goren, $2,011,650.

    Gary Drummond, Transport Workers Union's air transport division director, used a different method of calculation to come up with a $5.2 million increase in Arpey's pay, as well as for other executives.

    In any case, he's outraged, it appears:

    "It's almost beyond belief and certainly shameless that Arpey's compensation grew 11 percent over the previous year and AMR President Tom Horton saw an increase of 45 percent.

    "Along with their announcement yesterday, AMR's leadership should have stuck a red-hot poker in the eye of every employee, it would have had the same effect as this proxy statement.

    "Our members sacrificed to keep this airline out of bankruptcy eight years ago, we have boosted productivity and brought in new revenue, yet only the top managers receive rewards. I could use a lot of four letter words to describe what our members think of this behavior, to be civil, let me use five letters, this is G-R-E-E-D."

    American and the TWU have been negotiating a new contract since fall 2007. Stores employees and mechanics and related employees turned down proposed deals last August. The fleet service clerks and other ground workers backed out of a tentative agreement last spring without sending it to members for a vote.

    The Association of Professional Flight Attendants picketed at a number of airports Wednesday accusing AMR/American Airlines executives of corporate greed and mismanagement.

    American has defended its executive compensation program as appropriate and says it wants a contract that takes care of employees as well as the company's long-term success. That's the short version.

    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...-is-red-h.html
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  3. #903
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    SOUTHWEST AIRLINES RELEASES STATEMENT REGARDING FLIGHT 1919 AT CHICAGO MIDWAY

    Plane Slides Off End of Runway Upon Landing; No Injuries Reported


    DALLAS—April 26, 2011—Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) confirmed this afternoon that flight #1919, scheduled service from Denver to Chicago Midway, slid off a runway upon landing at Chicago’s Midway Airport. Local officials report heavy rain in the area at the time the aircraft landed.

    Initial reports are that no one was injured. The passengers have been safely deplaned from the aircraft using air stairs and have been bused to the terminal. Southwest officials will be working with passengers to get them to their final destinations.

    The aircraft is a Boeing 737-700.






    [IMG]WN in the Mud!.jpg[/IMG]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PuddinHead; 27 April 2011 at 02:37 PM.

  4. #904
    Skyscraper Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Uptown
    Posts
    1,197
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead
    Does it make you wonder if Southwest did their own maintenance in house instead of farming it out to the lowest overseas bidder they may have caught the crack/defect before it ruptured?
    Not really. Aeroman is considered to be one of the top heavy aircraft maintenance shops in the world and realizes it has to go "above and beyond" in terms of level of service to compensate for the negative bias associated with having maintenance performed offshore; the people working at the facility have some of the best paying jobs in the country, and know that the slightest mistake can result in a contract cancellation, throwing them and many of their countrymen out of work (and essentially marking them as permanent outcasts).

    Compare that to an AA union lifer that is basically impossible to fire seems perpetually angry about being "underpaid," and frequently considers the prospect of going out on strike.

    PuddinHead, in all seriousness, have you ever considered starting your own website/blog? You could call it something like "I hate, hate, hate Southwest and everything about it!!!! and it could feature the world's most comprehensive catalog of every single negative piece of information on Southwest you could find.
    Last edited by UptownDallas; 30 April 2011 at 11:42 PM.

  5. #905
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownDallas
    PuddinHead, in all seriousness, have you ever considered starting your own website/blog? You could call it something like "I hate, hate, hate Southwest and everything about it!!!! and it could feature the world's most comprehensive catalog of every single negative piece of information on Southwest you could find.
    ...and he could continue to embellish, invent, spin, and otherwise make things up just as he has always done in this forum.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  6. #906
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownDallas
    Not really. Aeroman is considered to be one of the top heavy aircraft maintenance shops in the world and realizes it has to go "above and beyond" in terms of level of service to compensate for the negative bias associated with having maintenance performed offshore; the people working at the facility have some of the best paying jobs in the country, and know that the slightest mistake can result in a contract cancellation, throwing them and many of their countrymen out of work (and essentially marking them as permanent outcasts).

    Compare that to an AA union lifer that is basically impossible to fire seems perpetually angry about being "underpaid," and frequently considers the prospect of going out on strike.

    PuddinHead, in all seriousness, have you ever considered starting your own website/blog? You could call it something like "I hate, hate, hate Southwest and everything about it!!!! and it could feature the world's most comprehensive catalog of every single negative piece of information on Southwest you could find.
    No matter how good aeroman is airlines like southwest who use them are not using American workers. At least those unhappy union lifers at AA still have a job and are still able to contribute to the United States economy.

    uptown why not chastise tp as well for all of his negative postings and comments against AA?

    FYI, whois southwest sucks.com guess who owns it?
    Last edited by PuddinHead; 03 May 2011 at 10:33 PM.

  7. #907
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    Southwest mulls AirTran's D/FW service

    http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...w-service.html

    As Southwest Airlines Co. moves toward closing down AirTran operations at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, the airline is considering ways to accommodate passengers who’ve already booked AirTran flights at D/FW.

    Southwest completed its $1 billion purchase of AirTran on Monday. The deal triggered a provision of the 2006 Wright Amendment compromise that doesn’t allow Southwest or its affiliates to operate at D/FW without shutting gates at Love Field.

    Southwest has not set a date for closing AirTran’s two gates at D/FW, but the airline won’t serve D/FW “indefinitely,” Southwest spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said Friday. Eichinger said AirTran customers holding D/FW reservations should continue with their plans.

    Southwest’s plan is to “put in motion an orderly and reasonable schedule for relocating the AirTran DFW operations to Love Field,” she said.

    Southwest will find a way to move AirTran’s operations over to Love Field, but has no plans to fly AirTran flights at Love Field, Eichinger said.

    “We would be reaching out to any customers that did affect, so they would have adequate time to adjust their travel plan,” Eichinger said.

    The mayors or Fort Worth and Dallas, both cities that are parties to the 2006 Wright Amendment compromise, said Thursday that they want Southwest to move out of D/FW in a “reasonable” amount of time, but not as late as December, according to a Friday report in The Dallas Morning News.

    “Once the legal close was finally completed on Monday, we are now looking at schedules across the country,” Eichinger said. “D/FW is one of those, and the D/FW situation we have said we won’t serve D/FW indefinitely.”
    Interesting comments following the Dallas Morning News article linked above.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  8. #908
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    Airline passengers fed up with service except for Southwest

    "BOSTON | Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:43pm EDT

    BOSTON (Reuters) - Saddled with added fees and higher fares, travelers are fed up with paying more and getting less from major airlines, survey results released on Tuesday showed.

    With the exception of Southwest, the no-frills airline where bags fly free, major airlines fail to satisfy leisure travelers and disappoint business travelers even more, according to the annual American Customer Satisfaction Index.

    "There's been a bubbling discontent for airlines for some time, but the situation has worsened slightly from a year ago," said ACSI managing director David VanAmburg.

    Travelers cited poor service, higher prices and fees for baggage and other services as the main causes of their discontent, it said.

    Passenger satisfaction with airlines dropped by 1.5 percent to a score of 65 on ACSI's 100 point scale. Scores have generally hovered in the mid-to-low 60s for the last decade.

    Southwest continues to reap top customer service ratings -- and a score of 81 -- in part because it has not taken anything away from customers and then offered it back for a fee, said VanAmburg.

    "Now it's the Deltas and Uniteds and Americans that have to act like Southwest has for years," said VanAmburg of Southwest's minimalist service model.

    Behind Southwest, Continental scored 64, American 63, United and US Airways tied at 61 and Delta dropped to 56 on the ACSI scale."

    Full story at:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75K4VK20110621
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  9. #909
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    "BOSTON | Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:43pm EDT

    BOSTON (Reuters) - Saddled with added fees and higher fares, travelers are fed up with paying more and getting less from major airlines, survey results released on Tuesday showed.

    With the exception of Southwest, the no-frills airline where bags fly free, major airlines fail to satisfy leisure travelers and disappoint business travelers even more, according to the annual American Customer Satisfaction Index.

    "There's been a bubbling discontent for airlines for some time, but the situation has worsened slightly from a year ago," said ACSI managing director David VanAmburg.

    Travelers cited poor service, higher prices and fees for baggage and other services as the main causes of their discontent, it said.

    Passenger satisfaction with airlines dropped by 1.5 percent to a score of 65 on ACSI's 100 point scale. Scores have generally hovered in the mid-to-low 60s for the last decade.

    Southwest continues to reap top customer service ratings -- and a score of 81 -- in part because it has not taken anything away from customers and then offered it back for a fee, said VanAmburg.

    "Now it's the Deltas and Uniteds and Americans that have to act like Southwest has for years," said VanAmburg of Southwest's minimalist service model.

    Behind Southwest, Continental scored 64, American 63, United and US Airways tied at 61 and Delta dropped to 56 on the ACSI scale."

    Full story at:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75K4VK20110621
    How much did Southwest pay for this fluff piece?

  10. #910
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cedars
    Posts
    4,263
    They paid for it by forsaking that revenue and not ripping off passengers for bag fees.

  11. #911
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member AeroD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The County of Collin
    Posts
    3,314
    Are bag fees rip offs? Why I should I subsidize the cost of someone carrying more luggage than me. If weight affects fuel costs, certainly I should not pay the same as someone who is carrying more.
    Tighten the female dog!

  12. #912
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cedars
    Posts
    4,263
    If they stick it in the overhead, it does not become weightless.

    The only reason American et al don't charge for overhead weight is because it would cause a really messy scene at the gate. They don't want to charge premium fliers but would want to charge the herd. Like cattle, the herd gets upset if they see something outrageous in front of them. With check bag fees, the computer systems can waive it for premium fliers out of sight from the herd. No cattle will know.

  13. #913
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    J.D. Power and Associates Reports:

    "Customer Satisfaction with Airlines Increases for a Second Consecutive Year,
    But Gains Are Tempered By Dissatisfaction with Costs and Fees among Traditional Network Carriers"

    Full report at:
    http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JD...11075-nals.pdf
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  14. #914
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    Consumer Reports rates Southwest best airline

    Consumer Reports studied 10 of the nation's biggest airlines, evaluating them on check-in ease, cabin-crew service, cabin cleanliness, baggage handling, seat comfort and in-flight entertainment.

    The survey includes responses from 14,861 readers who reported on their experiences on 29,720 domestic flights from January 2010 to January 2011, according to the magazine.

    The biggest complaints among customers were uncomfortable seats and excessive fees.

    Here are the Consumer Reports airline ratings, on a 0-to-100 scale:

    * 1. Southwest (87)
    * 2. JetBlue (84)
    * 3. Alaska Airlines (79)
    * 4. Frontier (78)
    * 5. AirTran (74)
    * 6. Continental (72)
    * 7. American (65)
    * 8. Delta (64)
    * 9. United (63)
    * 10. US Airways (61)

    http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...west-best.html
    A subscription is needed to read the Consumer Reports airline ratings directly: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...view/index.htm
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  15. #915
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Atlanta - Dallas
    Posts
    13,949
    It'll be interesting to see what happens at Hartsfield-Jackson, if anything.

  16. #916
    Mid-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Texas, United States
    Posts
    331
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...le-planes.html
    American Airlines, the operator of an all-Boeing Co. (BA) jet fleet, is in talks with Airbus SAS about buying at least 100 narrow-body planes, two people familiar with the matter said.
    It must be a cold day in Hell. However it would be hard to believe they would defect B for A, but this has to put Boeing under some kind of crazy pressure.

  17. #917
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Southwest Pilot's Crude Rant About Flight Attendants Caught on Open Mic


    http://abcnews.go.com/US/pilots-rant...ry?id=13903790

  18. #918
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon
    It'll be interesting to see what happens at Hartsfield-Jackson, if anything.
    Good things can take time.... This Sept. 2005 article is interesting in light of recent developments. http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/s...2/daily38.html

    This Airtran 737 was parked nose to nose with a Southwest 737 at Southwest headquarters celebration just a short time before this video was taken. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqtlEGc77UQ

    Updates can be found here: http://www.lowfaresfarther.com/
    Last edited by TexasPlus; 23 June 2011 at 09:03 AM.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  19. #919
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    How Southwest Airlines Beat the Wright Amendment

    Forty years ago, Southwest Airlines made its debut as a small airline in Dallas, Texas, struggling to keep pace in the business. Today, Southwest is the top domestic carrier in the United States. But on the way to becoming the travel bellwether it is now, Southwest has been met with plenty of tension and turbulence.

    The primary obstacle along Southwest’s path to success was a piece of legislation called the Wright Amendment, sponsored by former Fort Worth Congressman Jim Wright in 1979.

    Wright’s aim was to protect competing airport Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport from losing business when Southwest refused to stay out of Dallas Love Field airport. The law was an amendment to the International Air Transportation Act of 1979, restricting passenger flights out of Love Field to locations within Texas and to four neighboring states — Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico.

    Since long-haul flights out of Dallas were limited to 56 passengers or fewer, Southwest relied on many shorter flights to build up and bolster its Love Field operation. Some passengers even managed to “work” the system and bypass limits completely – by flying out from Dallas, changing planes and then flying to any other city that Southwest served, with two tickets in each direction.

    After D/FW’s annual air traffic began to exceed capacity, the amendment was modified to add Alabama, Kansas, Mississippi and Missouri to the Wright zone.

    In 2004, Southwest launched a massive public relations campaign in an effort to rally support for a full repeal of the amendment, and created a website called “Set Love Free.” D/FW and its primary tenant, American Airlines then launched an opposing campaign and designed a website called “Keep DFW Strong” — even painting ads onto one of its water tanks.

    When Southwest threatened to pull out of Dallas Love Field, the amendment was finally repealed in 2006. The repeal lifted most restrictions but left others, such as the “Wright zone,” intact until 2014. (See a complete timeline of the Wright Amendment.)

    “Travelers have been burdened for nearly 30 years with the higher airfares the Wright Amendment nurtured by preventing competition,” Southwest CEO Gary Kelly said in a press release. But "the public has spoken out for change, and a plan was developed that brought together parties from both ends of the spectrum.”
    The rest of the article http://www.cnbc.com/id/43714139
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  20. #920
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    When did Southwest ever say they were going to pull service from Love Field?

    Gee golly whiz, that would have solved the whole problem.

    Fluffy, oh fluffy

    Must be a slow news day at CNBC.

  21. #921
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    AA attendants: 'Complete chaos' from new boarding policy

    American Airlines has changed the way it boards its flights, choosing to board fliers in the order they checked in.

    Previously, AA -- after starting with its elite passengers and those with special needs -- had boarded by row, beginning at at the back of the aircraft

    The Los Angeles Times describes the new method, writing:

    Once the first-class and executive-class passengers and other travelers with priority seating get onboard, the airline gate agents now board coach passengers in the order they checked in, regardless of where they are seated.

    AA made the change in early May after testing the concept at its Los Angeles and San Francisco stations, Bloomberg News reports.

    TODAY'S TALKER: How do you think airlines should board their customers?

    AA spokesman Ed Martelle tells Bloomberg the airline is hoping to create "a quieter, calmer" gate area while also reducing crowds on jetways.

    "The whole process may take a little longer, but you're not standing in line as long," Martelle tells Bloomberg. "It seems to be working well. We're pretty much happy with it."

    The flight attendants, however, are not.

    The Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) says the move has led to "complete chaos" on AA flights.

    "More often than not, the result is congested aisles and flight attendants having to explain to bewildered and already stressed passengers why there is complete chaos in the cabin," APFA says on its website.

    The union also notes: "Our flight pay does not begin until boarding concludes and the flight departs."

    Still, APFA pledged on its website that its members would do their best under the new policy.

    "Being the consummate professionals, we do the best we can with what (little) we have to work with and our Agent colleagues to get the plane out on time," the union says.

    And, in case you're wondering, other U.S. airlines board by a variety of methods -- ranging from Southwest's open-seating process to "outside-in," where window fliers are seated first before moving toward the aisle.

    The fastest method?

    "Our data confirms that pure random boarding is faster," Sandy Stelling, Alaska Airlines' managing director of airport services, tells the Times.

    "However, we determined the negative impact, measured by our customers — elite Mileage Plan members and non-elites alike — was not worth the small gain in time," she adds.
    http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...rding/175704/1
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  22. #922
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cedars
    Posts
    4,263
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead
    When did Southwest ever say they were going to pull service from Love Field?

    Gee golly whiz, that would have solved the whole problem.

    Fluffy, oh fluffy

    Must be a slow news day at CNBC.
    The author missed the real story, how Southwest leveraged various federal politicians' desires for for low cost air fare to medium markets plus antipathy to stupid regulations in general and Speaker Wright in particular. Southwest used powerful senators to get exemptions to contiguous rule, gradually expanding the reach. Then they publicized every stupid, ciontradictory aspect of the rule giving idea that it stood in the way for other politicians' markets. With the ground giving away underneath, AA went for the compromise. Southwest did not hold all the cards since the upcoming election could and did turn out many Republicans that wanted Wright gone. Not sure if 2007 Congress would have felt same way.

  23. #923
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin
    The author missed the real story, how Southwest leveraged various federal politicians' desires for for low cost air fare to medium markets plus antipathy to stupid regulations in general and Speaker Wright in particular. Southwest used powerful senators to get exemptions to contiguous rule, gradually expanding the reach. Then they publicized every stupid, ciontradictory aspect of the rule giving idea that it stood in the way for other politicians' markets. With the ground giving away underneath, AA went for the compromise. Southwest did not hold all the cards since the upcoming election could and did turn out many Republicans that wanted Wright gone. Not sure if 2007 Congress would have felt same way.

    The author almost drowned in the canyon blue cool aid.

    Southwest leveraged time before pushing for repeal so that those people closest to the situation when the WA was agreed to in 1979 who would be gone. This enabled WN to paint history in their favor.

  24. #924
    Skyscraper Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead
    The author almost drowned in the canyon blue cool aid.

    Southwest leveraged time before pushing for repeal so that those people closest to the situation when the WA was agreed to in 1979 who would be gone. This enabled WN to paint history in their favor.
    Don't forget the fact that Southwest Air won concessions on the future of Love Field, too: they got the total number of gates (read: competition) reduced, to ensure almost a virtual monopoly on the space. Additionnally, SWA has repeatedly refused to initiate any kind of service out of DFW, even after being openly invited (there were numerous ads) to do so by the airport. Those of us that live in the "Center City" of Dallas think it's pretty convenient to get to DAL, but there are likely folks in other areas of the Metroplex who find reaching DFW that much easier--or prefer using it for some other reason.

    I'm not saying the last few decades of North Texas air travel haven't included some shifty business; I'm just saying there's plenty of acrimony (and blame) to go around.

  25. #925
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cedars
    Posts
    4,263
    Quote Originally Posted by profbarium
    Don't forget the fact that Southwest Air won concessions on the future of Love Field, too: they got the total number of gates (read: competition) reduced, to ensure almost a virtual monopoly on the space. Additionnally, SWA has repeatedly refused to initiate any kind of service out of DFW, even after being openly invited (there were numerous ads) to do so by the airport. Those of us that live in the "Center City" of Dallas think it's pretty convenient to get to DAL, but there are likely folks in other areas of the Metroplex who find reaching DFW that much easier--or prefer using it for some other reason.

    I'm not saying the last few decades of North Texas air travel haven't included some shifty business; I'm just saying there's plenty of acrimony (and blame) to go around.
    We have made DFW American Airline's sandbox. They set the rules and they set them to the disadvantage of competitors. If you want entry to the market like Virgin, you can allow for that game. Southwest does not need it and sees no need to do anything to mitigate DFW's higher costs for AA.

  26. #926
    Skyscraper Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin
    We have made DFW American Airline's sandbox. They set the rules and they set them to the disadvantage of competitors.
    Fair enough; but, can't the same be said for SWA at DAL?

  27. #927
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin
    We have made DFW American Airline's sandbox. They set the rules and they set them to the disadvantage of competitors. If you want entry to the market like Virgin, you can allow for that game. Southwest does not need it and sees no need to do anything to mitigate DFW's higher costs for AA.

    Nope not even close, when the WA was implemented there was more competition at DFW than today, TI, Braniff died because of poor management. Delta left but United, Continental, Northwest, US Air remained. Granted mergers combined some of the remaining players but the market made DFW AA's so called sandbox not politcal BS like what happened at DAL with WN.

  28. #928
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by profbarium
    Don't forget the fact that Southwest Air won concessions on the future of Love Field, too: they got the total number of gates (read: competition) reduced, to ensure almost a virtual monopoly on the space. Additionnally, SWA has repeatedly refused to initiate any kind of service out of DFW, even after being openly invited (there were numerous ads) to do so by the airport. Those of us that live in the "Center City" of Dallas think it's pretty convenient to get to DAL, but there are likely folks in other areas of the Metroplex who find reaching DFW that much easier--or prefer using it for some other reason.

    I'm not saying the last few decades of North Texas air travel haven't included some shifty business; I'm just saying there's plenty of acrimony (and blame) to go around.
    Sure DFW Airport publicly invited SWA to move operations to DFW. Many of us saw the adds funded by AA suggesting this. This was all part of the attempt by AA, DFW Airport and their lawyers, (Ray Hutchison and his powerful, influential law firm of Vinson and Elkins), to gain public support. Anyone that has observed AA tactics at DFW knows it would have been like the spider attracting an insect to climb onto its web. http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=7443

    SWA management of course was not about to fall for this tactic.

    Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (wife of Ray Hutchison) was a key player in crafting the amended WA (WA2). One of the provisions of the final version of WA2 would severely penalize SWA if they operate secluded flights out of any airport within an 80 mile radius of DAL.

    That is why before the FAA issues a single operating certificate combing SWA and AirTran into a single carrier (expected the 1st quarter of 2012) AirTran will stop flights at DFW. Some of the signatories to WA2 are even complaining that November 21, 2011 is not soon enough for them. So you see as was stated many times (including here in this forum) SWA is not going to operate scheduled service at DFW.
    Last edited by TexasPlus; 14 July 2011 at 02:28 PM.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  29. #929
    Skyscraper Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,018
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    One of the provisions of the final version of WA2 would severely penalize SWA if they operate secluded flights out of any airport within an 80 mile radius of DAL.

    That is why before the FAA issues a single operating certificate combing SWA and AirTran into a single carrier (expected the 1st quarter of 2012) AirTran will stop flights at DFW. Some of the signatories to WA2 are even complaining that November 21, 2011 is not soon enough for them. So you see as was stated many times (including here in this forum) SWA is not going to operate scheduled service at DFW.
    I knew that, as a result of its acquisition by Southwest, AirTran would have to cease service from DFW. I wasn't sure why exactly, so thanks for clearing it up.

    Further, I understand that companies will act in their best interests--both airlines and airports fit that bill--and that "sweetheart" deals are made for "better customers", but it seems a little dumb to institute another federal law which singles out capable, competitive parties in what's really a regional (state, at most) issue. (Yes, I know the jets come and go from all over, but that argument is non-party to and beyond the scope of this debate.)

  30. #930
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    Sure DFW Airport publicly invited SWA to move operations to DFW. Many of us saw the adds funded by AA suggesting this. This was all part of the attempt by AA, DFW Airport and their lawyers, (Ray Hutchison and his powerful, influential law firm of Vinson and Elkins), to gain public support. Anyone that has observed AA tactics at DFW knows it would have been like the spider attracting an insect to climb onto its web. http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=7443

    SWA management of course was not about to fall for this tactic.

    Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (wife of Ray Hutchison) was a key player in crafting the amended WA (WA2). One of the provisions of the final version of WA2 would severely penalize SWA if they operate secluded flights out of any airport within an 80 mile radius of DAL.

    That is why before the FAA issues a single operating certificate combing SWA and AirTran into a single carrier (expected the 1st quarter of 2012) AirTran will stop flights at DFW. Some of the signatories to WA2 are even complaining that November 21, 2011 is not soon enough for them. So you see as was stated many times (including here in this forum) SWA is not going to operate scheduled service at DFW.
    The adds were funded by AA? Come on.

    DFW was looking for a new airline specifically Southwest. Imagine what a 100 or more flights per day at the airport would have done for the finances of the airport.

    Not only did they originally offer funds to WN to subsidise start up, they also suggested that they would build WN its own terminal on the East Side of the airport to support WN's operations model.

    We all know what happened in the end since the only goal for southwest was its own airport that it could control lock stock and barrell.

    FYI, those gate restrictions on service started at any other airport within an 80 radius of DAL,well guess what they work the other way to. Delta, United and AA if they start service at another airport besides DFW they two have to give up gates at Love Field.

  31. #931
    Low-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead

    FYI, those gate restrictions on service started at any other airport within an 80 radius of DAL,well guess what they work the other way to. Delta, United and AA if they start service at another airport besides DFW they two have to give up gates at Love Field.
    No they do not. Southwest & American are the only two airlines with gate restrictions at Love Field. See

    Five-Party Agreement

    Item #10 describes the gate restrictions that apply to Southwest. Item #11 describes the gate restrictions that apply to American. Where in this agreement does it say that any other airlines at Love Field have these types of restrictions?

    LoneStarMike

  32. #932
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStarMike
    No they do not. Southwest & American are the only two airlines with gate restrictions at Love Field. See

    Five-Party Agreement

    Item #10 describes the gate restrictions that apply to Southwest. Item #11 describes the gate restrictions that apply to American. Where in this agreement does it say that any other airlines at Love Field have these types of restrictions?

    LoneStarMike
    Your right it does not say anything about any airline other than AA and wn. Regardless the gate restrictions cut both ways.

  33. #933
    Mid-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Texas, United States
    Posts
    331
    DFW get ready to start flying Airbus. They are coming.

  34. #934
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    UPDATE 1-Boeing offers to re-engine 737 for AMR

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavebeenseen
    DFW get ready to start flying Airbus. They are coming.
    Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:44pm EDT

    * Sources: Boeing would put new engine in 737

    * Sources: AMR in last-minute talks with Boeing, Airbus

    * Deal could be unveiled Wednesday (Rewrites with new sourcing; adds details, background, comment)

    By Kyle Peterson and Tim Hepher

    CHICAGO/PARIS, July 19 (Reuters) - Scrambling to rescue a potential $20 billion plane order from American Airlines, Boeing Co (BA.N) has offered to put a new engine on its current version of the 737, retreating from an ambitious plan to completely redesign its best-selling aircraft, sources said on Tuesday.

    If AMR Corp's (AMR.N) American accepts Boeing's offer to build a re-engined 737, the carrier would become the launch customer for the upgraded narrowbody, which has yet to receive the official green light from Boeing's directors, two sources with knowledge of the talks told Reuters.

    A deal is not final as American Airlines is still weighing a generous offer from Boeing's chief rival Airbus, a unit of EADS EADS, for the A320neo, a re-engined A320.

    Two knowledgeable sources predicted a split order. The order could be for 200 to 300 narrowbodies, but the exact number is unclear, and there could be be last-minute changes.

    "American is very active with Airbus in talks right now," a senior industry source said, asking not to be identified.

    AMR, Boeing and Airbus declined to comment on the talks.

    The Wall Street Journal reported that the airline had asked Boeing to counter an Airbus offer that included a generous $6 billion financing package, and that Boeing had responded by offering to re-engine the 737.

    American Airlines last ordered Airbus planes in the late 1980s but declared in 1996 that Boeing would be its exclusive airplane provider through 2018. If Airbus wins all or even part of a big order from the carrier, it would be a coup.

    AMR managers are expected to make their recommendation to the company's board of directors at a two-day board meeting that starts on Tuesday. The company could announce a decision with its quarterly earnings report on Wednesday.

    Top aircraft leasing companies are said to be jockeying for position to help facilitate a transaction.

    COMPETITION IN THE US

    The market for narrow-body jet sales is estimated at $1.7 trillion over the next 20 years and is split between Boeing and Airbus, whose A320 has made substantial inroads in U.S. markets.

    The European company said last year it would put a more fuel-efficient engine in its A320 and call it "neo." The A320neo aircraft is scheduled to enter service in late 2015.

    Airbus dominated the Paris Air Show last month as it basked in orders for the A320neo while Boeing asked airlines for six months to make a decision on the 737. Airbus has firm orders or provisional commitments for 1,029 neos.

    For more than a year, Boeing has debated whether to redesign its 737 narrowbody, a workhorse for airlines around the world, or put a new engine in it.

    Experts say re-engining should deliver cost savings of as much as 15 percent. Savings of up to 25 percent could be achieved by an all-new plane. A re-engined plane could be brought to market around 2016. Boeing says it could deliver an all-new 737 around 2020.

    The option to re-engine the 737 has remained under consideration, although Boeing has long said it would prefer to redesign the aircraft with new technology showcased in its upcoming 787 Dreamliner.

    The 787 is a wildly popular airplane that has attracted more than 800 orders, but it is three years behind schedule due to snags in development.

    Boeing's recent history of 787 delays, coupled with a lack of a definitive plan for a redesigned 737, could make buyers skeptical that Boeing could produce an all-new 737 only a few years later than a re-engined one, said Adam Pilarski, senior vice president at AVITAS, an airline consulting company.

    "They know that it is not a few years," Pilarski said.

    If American Airlines places an order with Boeing or Airbus, or both companies, pressure will be on rival carriers in the United States to follow with their own orders to blunt the advantage American Airlines would gain from flying more fuel-efficient planes.

    Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) also is in talks with plane makers and says it aims to decide on an order for as many as 200 planes by the end of the year. Southwest Airlines (LUV.N) and United Continental Holdings (UAL.N) reportedly are also talking about potential orders.

    "Given the time requirements for the U.S. majors, I don't think Boeing has much of a choice here besides new engines," Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst at The Teal Group. "There's not that much else worth paying for." (Additional reporting by Karen Jacobs, editing by Gerald E. McCormick and Tim Dobbyn)
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...76I1N020110719
    Interesting....Previous to this the potential fuel burn reduction from a re-engined 737 was pegged by Boeing at 5%. I wonder what "Magic Wand" the Boeing salesmen found to gain that additional 10%....
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  35. #935
    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    400 North Ervay
    Posts
    7,596
    American Airlines confirms deal to buy 460 aircraft, spin off American Eagle
    By TERRY MAXON Staff Writer
    Published 20 July 2011 06:23 AM
    http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...ican-eagle.ece

    American Airlines Inc. is buying 460 airplanes from Airbus and the Boeing Co., the company announced Wednesday, calling it the biggest aircraft purchase in aviation history.

    As part of the deal, American is getting about $13 billion in committed financing from the two companies, covering the first 230 deliveries.

    “These new deliveries are expected to pave the way for American to have the youngest and most fuel-efficient fleet among its U.S. airline peers in approximately five years,” American said in its announcement.
    Parent AMR Corp. disclosed the major purchase as it announced a $286 million loss for the three months ended June 30.

    In addition, AMR outlined its plans to spin off its American Eagle regional carrier to AMR shareholders in coming months.

    ...


  36. #936
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Atlanta - Dallas
    Posts
    13,949
    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon
    07-18-2011

    I'll be moving the rambling dialog about the future of Love Field and DFW airports to this thread Domestic Service plans from DFW & DAL as soon as convenient.
    Tangent moved.

  37. #937
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by DFWCRE8TIVE
    American Airlines confirms deal to buy 460 aircraft, spin off American Eagle
    An interesting point in the dozen or so articles I read on this because of one word that was not used.
    That word is "Options". Typically a buyer (airline or leasing company) will commit to buying X number of aircraft, and Y number of "Options to buy aircraft". Options are basically a reserved slot on the manufactures production line a few years in the future. A way of hedging on the future.

    The fact that Options were not mentioned (yet) could just be the typical media stupidity on aviation in general, or this is an extremely rare case where a buyer is actually committing to a firm buy many years downstream. I bet the word Options will be tagged to this "buy" at some future date.
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  38. #938
    Frank Lloyd Wright Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cedars
    Posts
    4,263
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    An interesting point in the dozen or so articles I read on this because of one word that was not used.
    That word is "Options". Typically a buyer (airline or leasing company) will commit to buying X number of aircraft, and Y number of "Options to buy aircraft". Options are basically a reserved slot on the manufactures production line a few years in the future. A way of hedging on the future.

    The fact that Options were not mentioned (yet) could just be the typical media stupidity on aviation in general, or this is an extremely rare case where a buyer is actually committing to a firm buy many years downstream. I bet the word Options will be tagged to this "buy" at some future date.
    The commitment may be linked to the the seller financing and AA source of benefits. That is also what is unique about this deal. Normal 3rd parties like GE Finance are not involved. AA wants to replace that number of planes with every replaced plane generating positive cash flow. I don't know how it all can work, but if AA believes it, then future purchases need not be governed by realization of demand, a typical constraint driving options.

  39. #939
    Mid-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dallas, Texas, United States
    Posts
    331
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    An interesting point in the dozen or so articles I read on this because of one word that was not used.
    That word is "Options". Typically a buyer (airline or leasing company) will commit to buying X number of aircraft, and Y number of "Options to buy aircraft". Options are basically a reserved slot on the manufactures production line a few years in the future. A way of hedging on the future.

    The fact that Options were not mentioned (yet) could just be the typical media stupidity on aviation in general, or this is an extremely rare case where a buyer is actually committing to a firm buy many years downstream. I bet the word Options will be tagged to this "buy" at some future date.
    Is is firm order for 460 and options for another 465.

  40. #940
    Supertall Skyscraper Member electricron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,006

    Lightbulb

    The aircraft from the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320 families offer a 35% advantage in fuel efficiency over the MD-80s that they’ll be replacing, the executives said.
    American expects to get another 15% bump in efficiency when it begins receiving versions with more fuel-efficient engines.

    Note: Only half of the order, which arrive much later in the cycle, include the new, more efficient engines.
    Airbus neo = new, more fuel efficient engines
    Boeing RE = new, more fuel efficient engines
    And that's assuming the new engine passes all the hurdles on time....

    Questions:
    Does anyone know if one or the other vendor, or both vendors, planes will be set up for frequent short hop flights?
    Seems logical that one would, while the other will be optimized for longer flights. Which is which?
    Last edited by electricron; 22 July 2011 at 01:45 AM.

  41. #941
    High-Rise Member homeworld1031tx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    589
    Before this deal was announced AMR had said they would eventually replace all MD80s with 737s. So the short hop-route is probably going to be filled by the new (NG and RE [Next Generation (current generation...) and Re-Engined]) 737s while the A32xs will be added to longer range routes. I think the vast majority of the A32x order is for the A321, which will be replacing American's B757s in the 200-220 seat category. No verison of the 737 offers seating arrangements that can compete with the size of the A321

  42. #942
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    Original Print Headline: Drowning in debt

    PC Revised Headline: "American Airlines faces bumpy road getting back in the black
    by: D.R. STEWART World Staff Writer
    Sunday, July 31, 2011
    7/31/2011 3:27:23 AM

    AMR Corp.'s American Airlines struck historic deals recently to buy, over the next 14 years, up to 925 Airbus and Boeing aircraft worth $38 billion, but it doesn't ensure the Fort Worth carrier's survival, industry analysts and observers say.

    With a 600-aircraft fleet averaging 15 years old - one of the oldest fleets in the industry - American needs new aircraft because fuel costs are eating its lunch, analysts say.

    E1AA0731.jpg

    "They had no choice," said Fred Russell, CEO of Fredric E. Russell Investment Management Co. in Tulsa. "When you consider how many flights are canceled (due to aircraft repairs), leading to tremendous disgust and alienation by the public and loss of good will and revenue, they had to do something. Their planes are like the battlefield walking wounded."

    But the company's problems run much deeper than the age and inefficiency of its aircraft.

    American's difficulties include insufficient revenue, dismal management/labor relations and intense competition from healthier rivals, industry officials say.

    "Clearly, this aircraft order is an investment in the future of the airline," said Alex Eaton, president of World Travel Service in Tulsa. "It's good for the company and its employees, it's good for the industry, and it's good for Tulsa.

    "I wish, though, it was an indication of the good health and viability of the airline for the long term, but it's not. This is an indication of American Airlines' need to curtail losses in the short term."

    Earlier this month, American's parent, AMR Corp., reported a second quarter loss of $286 million that included a second quarter fuel bill of $2.2 billion, a 33.1 percent increase compared with 2010's second quarter.

    At the same time AMR reported its second quarter results, CEO Gerard Arpey announced the Airbus and Boeing aircraft orders, saying they would give American the youngest and most fuel-efficient fleet within five years.

    But with more than $12 billion in losses over the past 11 years and long-term debt of $17.1 billion, the company is moving close to a financial precipice, industry analysts said.

    "American can't really afford to do this, but they cannot afford not to do it," said Robert Herbst, industry analyst and founder of AirlineFinancials.com. "American's in serious financial trouble. They had to order these aircraft because without more fuel-efficient aircraft requiring less maintenance, American can't compete. In the end, it could break American, but they really can't afford not to order new aircraft," Herbst said.

    Michael Boyd, an industry analyst, consultant and founder of Boyd Group International Inc. in Evergreen, Colo., said American can reverse its financial course by reducing its fuel costs and raising revenue through its joint business agreements across the Pacific with Japan Airlines and across the Atlantic with British Airways and Iberia.

    "The joint business agreements with British Airways and Japan Airlines have not really been tapped yet," Boyd said. "There are two sides of the balance sheet. If they can get the fuel costs down and they can get the revenues up, I would reject the conclusion that American Airlines is automatically going under.

    "I also reject the idea that they have to have a merger partner. There is no merger partner out there domestically. US Airways doesn't bring anything to the table."

    Boyd and Herbst, both former American employees, said resolving the breach between management and labor is critical for American's survival.

    Management/labor relations are at a low point as unionized mechanics, pilots and flight attendants have been unable to reach agreement with the company on new contracts after more than four years of negotiations.

    American employs 6,000 mechanics and 7,000 people overall at its Maintenance & Engineering Center, its largest maintenance base, at Tulsa International Airport.

    In 2003, the mechanics, pilots and flight attendants agreed to $1.6 billion a year in wage and benefit concessions to help American avert a bankruptcy filing.

    All of American's major airline competitors filed for bankruptcy protection from creditors, canceled union contracts and slashed wage rates.

    Herbst said American's management deserves most of the blame for the deterioration in morale among employees and the hostility between labor and executives.

    "In the 1990s, American Airlines was known as the businessman's airline. Flight attendants were trained and catered to the premium passenger," Herbst said. "All flight attendants working for American today were hired before 9/11, and they were trained to think they would have 60 to 70 percent load factors (percent of seats filled).

    "I fault American's management, which never went to the employees to tell them that we are no longer a premium airline and we're going to have to change to a low-cost airline - it isn't going to be like it used to be. A lot of employees don't understand what happened. They tend to see the industry through their tunnel vision. Management could have had great impact by selling employees on what was happening, but there is so little contact between management and employees at American that there is no airline with worse management/labor relations."

    Boyd credits American's management with integrity for not filing for bankruptcy in 2003.

    "It would have defrauded lenders, employees and employee pension funds," Boyd said. "But management/labor relations are important because if you don't have the employees behind you, you're dead. Unless the employees feel they are part of the company, they won't perform."

    The onus is on American's management to turn around the state of management/labor relations, Boyd said.

    "It can be done, but it's going to take some reaching out," Boyd said.

    Herbst said he sees a bumpy ride ahead for American, a proud company that traces its lineage to Robertson Aircraft Corp. in the 1920s.

    On one side, a merged United Airlines and Continental Airlines will be nipping at its international routes. Delta Air Lines' merger with Northwest Airlines will provide formidable competition on other international destinations, and the merger of Southwest Airlines and AirTran Airways will give American low-cost competition on domestic routes.

    "I don't know if there's going to be room for American in the longer term," Herbst said. "There's only one way they can survive: if labor and management sit down, find a way to work together as hard as they possibly can to be competitive."

    The alternative?

    "We've seen TWA, Eastern, Braniff and Pan Am disappear because they failed to be competitive in this industry," Herbst said.

    Original Print Headline: Drowning in debt"

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/print...E1_ULNSnA54227
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  43. #943
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    AMR Posts $162 Million Loss

    American Parent AMR Posts $162 Million Loss as Fuel Prices Damp Fare Gains
    By Mary Schlangenstein - Oct 19, 2011

    American Airlines parent AMR Corp. (AMR), stung by bankruptcy speculation and the U.S. industry’s longest profit drought, reported a third-quarter loss of $162 million as jet-fuel prices soared.

    Costs to fly each seat a mile, the company’s “immediate top priority,” will rise as much as 6.6 percent this quarter excluding spending on fuel and any new labor accords, Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR said today. It didn’t outline any fresh steps to trim spending.

    A $4.8 billion cash balance “calms any immediate bankruptcy concerns,” Michael Derchin, a CRT Capital Group LLC analyst in Stamford, Connecticut, said in an interview. “But it certainly doesn’t alleviate the longer-term issues of the company needing to get its act together on both the cost and revenue side.”

    The shares plunged 33 percent on Oct. 3 on concern that the owner of the third-largest U.S. airline could be forced into bankruptcy unless it can cut costs with new union contracts. AMR’s labor expenses as a percentage of sales are the highest among U.S. carriers, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

    The company’s cash and short-term investment total as of Sept. 30 slipped from $5 billion a year earlier. The total at the end of June was about $5.6 billion.
    Quarterly Results

    Last quarter’s loss of 48 cents a share compared with net income a year earlier of $143 million, or 39 cents, AMR said. That was wider than an average estimate of 43 cents among 12 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.

    AMR fell 7.4 percent, the most in two weeks, to $2.61 at 4:01 p.m. in New York trading, as other airlines also declined. The shares have tumbled 66 percent this year, the most among the 10 carriers in the Bloomberg U.S. Airlines Index. Derchin recommends holding the stock.

    Today’s loss was the 14th in the past 16 quarters for AMR, which has registered annual losses since 2008. AMR is the first major U.S. airline company to report results for the quarter and the only one expected by analysts to have a loss.

    “Achieving a competitive cost structure is the one area where, despite a lot of hard work, we have not completed the job,” Chief Executive Officer Gerard Arpey said in a message to employees today. “Whether we like it or not, there is simply no path to long-term success without competitive costs in every aspect of our business, including our labor costs.”
    Sales, Fuel

    Sales rose 9.1 percent to $6.38 billion. The results included costs of about $50 million, or 15 cents a share, from foreign exchange rates as the dollar strengthened and contracts relating to fuel purchases, AMR said.

    Spending on fuel rose 40 percent to $2.26 billion, AMR’s biggest expense, as the average price paid per gallon climbed 41 percent from a year earlier, according to the company. Those costs damped gains from higher ticket prices that boosted the yield, or the average fare per mile flown, by 7 percent for American’s main jet operations.

    Long-term debt, including capital leases, airport bonds and aircraft operating leases as of Sept. 30, was $16.9 billion, AMR said. That compared with $16.2 billion a year earlier.

    Bargaining is set to resume today between American and the Allied Pilots Association, which represents pilots who fly the carrier’s mainline jets. The two sides took a break yesterday after making what American said was “significant progress” in discussions from Oct. 11 through Oct. 17. Jeff Brundage, American’s senior vice president for human resources, declined today to set a time frame for reaching an accord.
    Analyst’s View

    “We increasingly believe that a tentative agreement between AMR and its pilots may be reached in coming days, and we remain steadfast in our view that near-term Chapter 11 rhetoric is significantly overstated,” Jamie Baker, a JPMorgan Chase & Co. analyst in New York, said in a report today. He rates AMR as neutral.

    Negotiations were stepped up last week after American sought waivers to help cover crew shortages caused by pilot retirements.

    Staffing was “critically short” as retirements ran at 10 times the normal average in September and this month, American said last week. The airline is paring seating capacity 3 percent this quarter and shutting a San Francisco crew base in response to the shortage, high fuel prices and a weak economy. It also plans to retire as many as 11 jets in 2012.
    Eagle Divestiture

    American’s cost-saving steps also include the planned spinoff of the American Eagle regional unit. AMR said today Eagle had reached an agreement in principle with the Air Line Pilots Association in preparation for the divestiture.

    AMR hasn’t set a date or an exchange ratio for the spinoff of Eagle, which provides more than 90 percent of passenger feed from smaller cities to American’s hubs.

    The tentative agreement on an eight-year pilot contract at Eagle would help trim costs so the regional unit can compete to fly for American and other carriers, AMR said today. The accord also would set new terms for the flying that Eagle initially will provide to American.

    Negotiators are still completing language in the contract proposal before it goes to union leaders and then rank-and-file pilots for ratification, said Dave Ryter, vice chairman of ALPA’s master executive council at Eagle.

    To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas at maryc.s@bloomberg.net

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/...s-rise-1-.html
    AA has been kicking that can full of debt down the road for a long time now. Could that road be nearing a dead end?

    They obviously need the new aircraft recently ordered from Airbus and Boeing, but how can they pay for them......or will Airbus and Boeing be the new owners of AA?
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  44. #944
    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    400 North Ervay
    Posts
    7,596
    Southwest Airlines posts $140 million loss on fuel hedging charge

    By Terry Maxon/Reporter
    tmaxon@dallasnews.com
    6:30 AM on Thu., Oct. 20, 2011
    http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...sts-140-m.html

    Southwest Airlines lost $140 million in third quarter 2011 after it was recorded a $239 million charge related to its fuel hedging contracts.

    The charge was related to accounting rules that require companies to record a loss or gain on the value of fuel hedging investments based on their market value at the end of the quarter.

    Excluding the $239 million item and other one-time items totaling $23 million, the Dallas-based carrier said it would have earned $122 million in the three months ended Sept. 30.

    ...

  45. #945
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    What American Airlines must do to end nosedive

    For the past few months there have been many articles talking about AA and it's money problems. Other than some quoting AA press releases, none have painted a rosy picture of AA's probable future. Here is one that sums things up fairly accurately except for one important point.

    While many point out that AA desperately need more efficient aircraft, the one thing they all leave out is the lack of efficiency of the AA workforce...IE how many employees they have per aircraft they operate. Just divide the number of employees an airline has, by the number of aircraft they have in their fleet. (Info can be found on most airlines websites) The lower the number, the higher the efficiency. Upgrading aircraft efficiency, is only half the answer to survival for AA.

    DALLAS – American Airlines is in bad need of an upgrade.

    The airline posted a $162 million loss on Wednesday, and has lost money in 14 of the last 16 quarters. Shares of parent AMR Corp. dropped 7.5%, and they have fallen 66% this year as investors worry that the company could be headed for bankruptcy protection.

    AMR has nearly $5 billion in cash, more than many of its rivals and enough to avoid bankruptcy anytime soon.

    But American needs to solve its labor problems, bring costs under control and provide better service to passengers if it is to pull out of a long financial nosedive that has resulted in the loss of more than $12 billion since 2001.

    Here's what American must do, experts say:

    —Control labor costs

    AMR says its labor costs are $600 million a year more than other airlines — even more if pensions are included. Partly it's because other airlines dumped pension and other costs when they went through bankruptcy in the past decade.

    American's unions hotly dispute AMR's figures and are seeking pay raises.

    Management and the pilots' union recently stepped up talks and appear closer to a deal than ever — negotiations started in 2006. American wants pilots to fly more hours per month, much like they do at competitor Southwest Airlines Co.

    Deals with pilots, flight attendants and ground workers could save AMR $300 million to $400 million a year, analysts estimate. That wouldn't cover an expected $1.2 billion loss this year, but it would close the gap with competitors.

    "Getting competitive about labor costs is critical for them," says Michael Derchin, an analyst with CRT Capital Group. "That would be a good start."

    —Improve service

    American needs to improve its service to keep attracting passengers, who have many airlines to choose among. That means arriving on-time more often, which is especially important to business travelers. Its American Eagle subsidiary cancels a high number of flights.

    "American used to be the industry leader," says Henry H. Harteveldt, a travel industry analyst with Atmosphere Research Group. "Now it's in the middle of the pack and falling."

    Harteveldt said American must upgrade seating in coach, add lie-flat beds in business class on international flights, and expand amenities such as in-flight Internet service and power outlets.

    —Dump gas-guzzling planes

    American has announced plans to upgrade its fleet by buying 460 planes from Airbus and Boeing. Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey says the new planes will transform American by reducing maintenance and fuel costs — the manufacturers claim the new jets will use 15% less fuel than current models — and giving customers a better ride.

    However, those planes don't begin to arrive until 2013 and will be added gradually over several years.

    American used to be a leader. It was the world's biggest airline, an innovative company whose ideas — from frequent-flier rewards to baggage fees — were loved or hated by passengers; but either way, they were copied by other airlines.

    Lately, American's creativity seems to have run dry. Investors have publicly challenged Arpey and other executives to come up with fresh thinking "beyond new flights to Helsinki," as one analyst put it.

    Despite such restiveness, there are no clear outward signs that a change in leadership is imminent. "That's not going to happen. This management is in charge," said Ray Neidl, an analyst with Maxim Group LLC, who only a month ago referred to management as "a caretaker of a deteriorating asset."

    But some analysts think a shake-up might not be far away.

    While the airline industry has enjoyed strong revenue growth and other carriers have returned to profitability in the past two years, "unfortunately AMR sticks out as an airline still generating losses," says Matthew Jacob, an analyst with ITG Investment Research. "I think it's something the board would probably consider."

    It's been a terrible year for airline stocks as investors fretted about high fuel prices and a weak economy undercutting travel. The Arca index of airline stocks has dropped 30%.

    AMR shares have plunged more than twice as much, reflecting fear about its string of losing quarters and high debt. A rash of American Airlines pilot retirements spooked investors, who considered it a sign of insiders bailing out, causing a 33% drop on Oct. 3.

    AMR reported Wednesday that third-quarter revenue rose 9% on higher fares, but fuel spending jumped 40%, to $2.3 billion, easily topping wages and benefits as the biggest expense.

    The company's loss of 48 cents per share was wider than analysts' forecast of 43 cents per share, according to FactSet. And it forecast fourth-quarter costs that were higher than some analysts had expected.

    Investors were disappointed again. The company's shares fell 21 cents to close at $2.61

    http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...ive/50836394/1
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  46. #946
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    Pilot Mistake Prompted Emergency Landing

    "A cabin pressurization error led to an early return to DFW, with two go around's.
    Listening to the tapes, it really sounded like someone needed to focus on the "Aviate" part of flying."

    http://flightaware.com/squawks/view/...rgency_Landing
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  47. #947
    Mid-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Grapevine, TX
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasPlus
    "A cabin pressurization error led to an early return to DFW, with two go around's.
    Listening to the tapes, it really sounded like someone needed to focus on the "Aviate" part of flying."

    http://flightaware.com/squawks/view/...rgency_Landing
    Sounds more like the media blowing this a little more out of proportion. Most abnormal checklists for airliners are quite long, while ATC's goal is to direct the aircraft to landing as quickly as possible. The question comes whether or not they should have just landed finishing only half the checklist or finish it up, and then land. Obviously, pressurization would never be an issue, seeing how the aircraft never got above a few thousand feet.

  48. #948
    Low-Rise Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    75082
    Posts
    158
    So...maybe I'm just a sadist, but I always love being in airports on super busy travel days like today. The crush of humanity, the frantic energy...I'd love to be able to plop down for a couple of hours at a bar at DFW today and just people watch. Granted, my opinion on days like today will likely change when/if I'm dragging kiddos through a terminal desparately trying to get to our flight

    DFW website says Remote South parking is already full and part of Express North is too. Best of luck to all the travellers out there today.

  49. #949
    High-Rise Member TexasPlus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bedford, Texas
    Posts
    896

    American Airlines may outsource more maintenance

    Quote Originally Posted by PuddinHead View Post
    No matter how good aeroman is airlines like southwest who use them are not using American workers. At least those unhappy union lifers at AA still have a job and are still able to contribute to the United States economy.
    By Andrea Ahles

    aahles@star-telegram.com

    For years, American Airlines bucked the industry trend of sending maintenance work overseas.

    But that may soon end with the announcement last week that American plans to close its Alliance Fort Worth maintenance base and outsource the work performed on wide-body aircraft such as the Boeing 767 and 777.

    Over the past decade, U.S. carriers have increasingly sent big planes to facilities in Singapore, China and Mexico for maintenance. Some, like Southwest Airlines, send narrow-body aircraft to maintenance bases in El Salvador and Canada.

    "There is a broad and deep global marketplace for heavy maintenance work on wide-body airplanes," American CEO Tom Horton said during a meeting Thursday with the Star-Telegram Editorial Board. "And the reason for that is very simple. The airplanes fly everywhere. They can be maintained in Asia or Latin America or North America or Europe. They can be maintained anywhere."

    Cost is the driving factor. It is far cheaper to have the work done overseas, said John Eakin, who owns Air Data Research in Helotes.

    "So much of the work is labor-intensive that it is just hard for American shops to be competitive," Eakin said.

    The move toward outsourcing is part of the airline's plan to emerge from bankruptcy as a more competitive company.

    But some wonder whether maintenance done outside the U.S. isn't as safe.

    The Transport Workers Union, which represents 26,000 workers at American and its regional carrier American Eagle, has raised concerns that government inspectors cannot properly inspect or oversee third-party maintenance facilities.

    According to a Transportation Department inspector general report in 2010, neither the Federal Aviation Administration nor the carriers "provide regular on-site reviews of the maintenance performed at these facilities."

    The report said there is a higher risk because third-party companies are usually not FAA-certified and don't have the same quality controls.

    American said it still plans to have its own mechanics do a large portion of its maintenance even as it proposes to outsource 40 percent.

    "We never have and never will compromise the safety and reliability of our fleet," spokeswoman Andrea Huguely said. "Even though we are proposing increasing our outsourcing, work done at any other facility will always be subject to our and the FAA's rigorous safety standards."

    TWU international representative Don Videtich said American's mechanics are proud of their work and their ability to help the carrier save money by improving their productivity.

    "Whether it is overseas or another [maintenance base] in the States, it is just disheartening because everybody at the company and the union was not just focused on maintaining jobs but maintaining the quality product," Videtich said.

    Thousands of U.S. airline mechanics have lost their jobs in the outsourcing wave. In a March report on the issue, the TWU found that passenger airlines had a total of 42,774 mechanics in 2009, down 33 percent from 64,248 in 2000, even as the total aircraft declined only 6 percent. About 1,200 workers at Alliance would be affected by the American maintenance base closure.

    But industry analysts say American needs to make the move to remain cost-competitive with other carriers.

    All major U.S. carriers except American have outsourced maintenance overseas in the past decade. From 2001 to 2009, outsourcing went from 29 percent to 60 percent at US Airways and from 18 percent to 41 percent at United Airlines, according to a 2011 report from the TWU.

    "We've seen the last 10 years of this trend, and this has been the safest 10 years in the airline industry," airline consultant Darryl Jenkins said.


    The Aeronautical Repair Station Association, which represents aircraft maintenance companies, said that regardless of where a maintenance facility is, the regulatory requirements are the same.

    "The airline continues to be responsible for the entire maintenance program put into effect by its maintenance providers," said Sarah MacLeod, the association's executive director.

    American has not told the TWU whether it wants to outsource maintenance overseas or to companies in North Carolina or San Antonio.

    With American's plan to buy 460 aircraft from Boeing and Airbus in the next decade, the TWU acknowledges that mechanics would have faced job cuts anyway, as the newer planes need fewer maintenance checks. But the union believes that American's proposals are overreaching and disheartening.

    "The focus should have been on all the infrastructure and processes in place and utilize those facilities to their utmost," Videtich said. "We're planning on fighting for every job, and that includes Alliance."

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02...outsource.html
    "Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers."

  50. #950
    High-Rise Member PuddinHead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    East Dallas
    Posts
    785
    Yes, I am dissappointed too with the possibilities resulting from AA's troubles. But the operative word is MAY so wait and see. But what the hell isn't what is good enough for WN not good enough for everyone else?
    Last edited by PuddinHead; 06 February 2012 at 11:48 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 4 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •