Reply With QuoteIt will happen eventually. There is too much momentum behind it now.Originally Posted by HarryMoto
Well at least this won't delay the park across the street any. All of the businesses have moved out and demolition looks like it could start any day.
It will happen eventually. There is too much momentum behind it now.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
Unless there is a Special Session and the Governor puts the UNT Law School on the call, then it won't be until '09 that the Legislature will have another shot at creating the school.
Tighten the female dog!
There's no need to worry then. For the last 4 years, Governor Perry has made special sessions a regular part of the legislative calendar!
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
This is unfortunately true.
Tighten the female dog!
UNT Law School
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.4d6e617.html
The proposed University of North Texas Law School got a financial boost from the council.
The council authorized spending $14 million in 1998 bond funds to renovate the municipal building at 106 S. Harwood St., where the law school is expected to be housed.
The city will also provide $2 million in public/private funds over the next four years as a capital investment in UNT Law.
The Legislature must authorize the law school's creation. A bill to do so failed last year.
It looks like House Bill 59 will be the one to watch this upcoming legislative session for the UNT Law School.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodo...f/HB00059I.pdf
Tell me why anyone would be opposed to creating a law school.
Socialism - bringing a greater good to a greater many, one golden parachute at a time.
Insert lawyer-analogous-to-pirahna/shark/jackal/vulture joke here.
^Well, there are lots of people in the Leg. who tend to vote against whatever Dallas wants. That has a lot of sway.
As for the law school itself, one could make an argument that there isn't a real need for one. There are already too many third rate lawyers tooling around, and a UNT Dallas Law School would only churn out more of them. Some might go to work in District Attorneys' offices, and others will likely continue to flood the market in private practice. I've mentioned earlier why I think that's probably not necessary, but I would just offer Texas Wesleyan as Exhibit A for what a Fourth Tier law school will do.
In any event, there's a rant here about how the ABA doesn't do a very good job regulating supply of lawyers, but I'll save that for later.
Define "third rate" lawyer, please. I tried to look it up and couldn't find a definition.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
came here expecting to see an update on the status of the law school, came here dissapointed
as did i
Only when it comes to water.
It is not as though Duke law school grads are running back to Dallas County to work in the DA's office. For that matter UT Law, but then again nearly half of UT Law school students do something else besides law. SMU law grads are busy trying to take over corporate America.
So welcome UNT Law, unless you some how die on a point of order.
Tighten the female dog!
ancientshoes and kclapp. . .try reading post number 157.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I stand corrected
Tell me why the taxpayers should foot the bill for a vocational school, especially one where (a) there is already such an over supply that half of law school graduates don't stay in the profession, and (b) the majority of graduates make enough money that they could pay off any loans they take out.
If there's sufficient legislative support for the law school, it will pass. If nothing else, we'll get a downtown building converted into something useful.
That aside, when I graduate from Duke Law, I'll probably be headed back to Dallas County, but not to work in the D.A.'s office. There are plenty of law schools churning out plenty of attorneys to fill those positions. Aside from politicians wanting a school within their jurisdiction, I'm not entirely sure where the demand for these new attorneys will be.
There are already 200 ABA accredited law schools in the United States. Only a very very small portion of those graduates ever have a chance at working at the big firms here or anywhere, most of the rest go into private practice or into government work. On its face, that's perfectly fine. Not everyone can or should go into corporate law. Individuals need attorneys who can help them with day to day legal issues and not charge several Benjamins an hour for the privilege. Local and regional schools typically mint those attorneys. But there are only so many lawyers any area actually needs. Even with Dallas' growing population, it doesn't need to inject hundreds of new attorneys into the market each year. Texas Weselyan and UNT Dallas are just the two most recent offenders.
The State Bar admitted 2209 new lawyers to practice in Texas this year. Does adding even more to that already large number really make sense?
http://www.ble.state.tx.us/Stats/stats_0708.htm
Plus for those who do not make it downtown often you will notice the construction by the city on the future site of the UNT Law school has been in action for awhile now. You can see evidence in the Main Street Gardens second ground breaking ceremony pictures of Leppert speaking to the crowd and scaffolding on the old City Hall behind him. So the city part of the project is on full steam now we have to wait on the Legislature and Dallas UNT to fund their part of the project once they get state government approval.
Isn't that building currently have quite a few courtrooms for traffic tickets? I know I had to go into the building to settle a stop sign ticket I received, I don't know where the court date is at though. The building needs to be gutted, its in poor shape.
Yes the city is still using it but the city is doing what work they agreed they could do to prepare for the college to eventually take over. Things like cleaning and repairing the exterior and other modifications but yes the building most likely will be gutted when UNT Dallas starts it renovation work.
Law school, unlike medical school or a PhD program, does not take up 7-10 years of your life, and requires less debt. So law school is very attractive for those who do not know what they want yet in life, yet want money and/or prestige in 3 years. Not everyone wants to work at Akin Gump or be a legal clerk. But adding to your resume "J.D." and "bar certified" looks good even if you are applying for something other than a legal position.
Working in Austin, I know plenty of lobbyists, and legislative staffers, who only went to law school for "marketing" purposes. Oddly enough, many of those lament having gone to law school to begin with.
Are there a lot of people with law degrees out there perhaps, but is the market for attorneys who actually want to step inside in courtroom over-saturated, probably not.
Tighten the female dog!
07:25 AM CST on Monday, November 24, 2008
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...g.4188009.html
Downtown Houston, Fort Worth, and Austin have law schools. I think Dallas should have one too. The myth that we have too many lawyers is silly. Like everything else in our capitalist society, the supply of lawyers is based on the demand for lawyers.
DAGNABBIT!
Dallas already has an excellent law school -- it's just 5 minutes north of downtown.
Is your real interest in educating lawyers-to-be, or in getting the state to subsidize more warm bodies downtown?
LOL. You argue for state subsidies by falling back on free markets. Talk about irony.
Frankly, the quality of a potential UNT law school is of little importance in the short-run - getting another higher-ed institution in the city and in DTD is a good thing. Finding a long-term use for and money to renovate old city hall is worth a few more ambulance-chasers, IMO.
They need to restore the building regardless. Especially with Main Street Garden coming in next year.
Last edited by dfwcre8tive; 02 December 2008 at 08:15 PM.
Great photos and I'll echo your sentiment about the need to address this building in some fashion.
I think I've made my feelings about the law school here clear enough, but despite what I may think about its potential academic and career prospects, having a student body in this building year after year will be very helpful for downtown, assuming the students ever leave the library.
^At least this bldg looks good as is, unlike the old Hilton.
As for the law school, as an advocate for downtown, I'm all for it. As an attorney, I hesitate to think we need another law school. Just my two cents...
UNT law school is great news... what better location for a law than in the CBD? If one wants to practice corporate law, it makes since to be near the corporations.
How's the transition/ master plan for UNT-Dallas coming along?
vist my blog at http://texasleftist.blogspot.com/
You could make the argument that there are more corporations in the suburbs but we are here to talk about Downtown and its positive progress.
Only first-year students live in the library.....assuming the students ever leave the library.
Tighten the female dog!
"you could make the argument" is putting it very lightly. The vast majority of corporations in the DFW area are in suburban locations, are they not?
You have nicely encapsulated why it MIGHT be difficult to convince the legislature to commit the state to this project, to-wit: it's really all about rescuing downtown Dallas, not about serving any need for another law school.
Not really.
Tighten the female dog!
Until after finals, then we practice being alcoholics so that we are ready to enter a profession that has a higher than average rate of divorce, suicide, substance abuse, etc.
Well, that's certainly convincing. For those favoring the UNT Law School in downtown Dallas, let's hope the chamber of commerce and downtown Dallas organizations (oops, I mean the UNT) come up with something better. ;-)
Perhaps rescuing Downtown Dallas is not the only purpose for this school. An approximately equal driver is UNT's empire building (nothing unique to UNT about this - it happens at most universities and organizations.) Why DFW needs UNT - Dallas in addition to UNT- Denton, UT-Dallas, UT-Arlington is hard to imagine. (Let's see, did I forget any state-funded schools... it's getting hard to keep track) It seems to be falling into the "more schools is better" trap that Oklahoma adopted; each independent and intent on building their own empire.
This is a "local bill" and members don't vote against other member's "local bills".
Tighten the female dog!
Hmmmm.... Curious, then, that it didn't happen in the last session... ;-)
I mean it doesn't matter that students are in Downtown and "corporations" are in the suburbs cause for the most part all the law firms are in Downtown including the uptown area.
The bill did not die because it was voted down.
Tighten the female dog!
^I don't have time to look it up, but didn't some rep attach a controversial bill to it at the last minute and nobody wanted to touch it? Or something like that...or nothing like that...which ever.
The legislature does not care if Dallas gets another law school they only care if their own bills don't get voted down at the same session. You scratch my back I will scratch yours they could careless about protecting the supply of lawyers or if its just a public school system pork project depending on what side of this discussion your on.
OK, I've got time now.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.4415a87.html
Assuming that Governor 38 % has not changed his mind, should be smooth sailing?Plan C was attaching Sen. Royce West's amendment on the law school to an eminent domain and condemnation bill. The Senate embraced the change.
But Friday morning, in advance of a House vote on the bill, Rep. Dan Branch's office got word that Gov. Rick Perry's office didn't support the UNT school because Texas didn't need another law school.
After a whirlwind afternoon, one that included repeated phone calls to Mr. Branch in Dallas and an emergency visit to the governor's office by UNT Chancellor Lee Jackson, Mr. Perry's office said it wouldn't stand in the way.
When the bill came up Saturday, Ms. Davis raised a point of order on it, saying the law school amendment wasn't germane to the legislation. Her point of order was upheld, effectively killing the bill.
If the bill had passed, it would've authorized planning and preparation to open a law school in the old Dallas Municipal Building downtown by fall 2009.
State Law Makers have no idea what they are doing when it comes to Education. First this 4-4 Program saying you cant go to a Texas College unless you graduate High School with 4 math and 4 science credits (The 2 must un needed subjects in the world unless you are going into that field, plus there goes all the good sports talent to Oklahoma) and then this. What's next?
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
You're missing my point. You aren't going to create a first-tier law school overnight. Not even a second-tier school. But is that a reason to not create a law school? Not every great lawyer went to Harvard or Yale.
Texas needs more universities, more professional schools, to create more competition and opportunities for the state's residents. It's not just about Downtown Dallas - the location is in the city's best interest, of course, but that's not the only reason the city is in favor of its creation.
I guess I did miss your point. Perhaps because you did not make that point in the post to which I was responding... ;-)
The Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, which studies higher ed issues and somewhat governs, recently issued a paper/publication which concludes that Texas does not need another law school. It went on to say that if, nevertheless, another law school is created, that it should go to South Texas. This is their recommendation to the legislature and governor.
Anyone can access and read the paper for the details and rationale. I definitely agree. It is a boondogle...an attempt at empire-building, as has been described earlier. UNT knows that they have no chance attaching a law school to the Denton campus, so they are trying to put it downtown and attach it to the future UNT Dallas where they figure that they have a better political chance for success. This proposed waste of money deserves to die again in the next session.
How do you decide where and when a new Law School is needed?
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
When your downtown lacks one...
Seriously, if SMU were to "relocate" Dedman would anyone complain?
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