Reply With QuoteHere's the MHHB celebration video from You+Dallas.
...seems likely, with the most prominent difference being the grand scale of the Dallas bridge.Originally Posted by lakewoodhobo
Here's the MHHB celebration video from You+Dallas.
Great video!
I was driving across I-30, glanced to my left at the first Calatrava and was noticing how close it is to I-30, the future site of the second Calatrava. When you then look across towards downtown and notice how the State and County jails dominate the land between the two Calatravas, it just makes you shake your head. I think the way those two bridges perfectly frame up the jails, it'll make people do a double take. I know there have been calls to camouflage the jails somehow. You just can't put lipstick on that pig.
If building these bridges was supposed to be about doing nearby real estate deals, it's a shame to see the most prime pieces of real estate eaten up by those eyesores. If this were a grittier city, we could work around them. But this is Dallas. You can't work around that jail. The Dallas way is to sanitize, not work-around.
I'm interested in what happens when those two landmark bridges are sitting side by side and those big ugly jails are sitting there between them. I think when people *actually* see that landscape with their eyes, it will get them talking more. Shouldn't Dallas stop wasting time on a fantasy toll road that will never get built, and figure how to move, with the State and County, those jails? I'm not saying, let's move it now. I know there's not money for that and the economy is still recovering. But what about kicking off a process to move them 10-15 years from now?
Last edited by BigD5349; 12 March 2012 at 09:43 PM.
As much as it offends those on this board who want to put a park in a drainage ditch (now there's your "lipstick on a pig"), the current location of the county courthouse/jail and the private state jail is just about ideal for those uses. If not there, where do you put them -- along with the nearby bail bondsmen and other supporting businesses? That courthouse/jail has to be somewhere in the county. Where else are you going to find a location with the same combination of excellent access (including public transportation), central location, low land price and a lack of existing neighbors fighting tooth-and-nail to keep it out of their neighborhood?
Cedars
S Lamar and Grand.. there are several massive empty lots down there.. build a huge complex.
Okay maybe not... that's too close to the standing wave and cedar creek.
There really aren't a lot of better options. I suppose the only thing to do is to throw some LEDs on the jail to spruce them up a bit.
Also, can we not use the prisoners to build the trinity park?
Last edited by Bhops; 13 March 2012 at 12:17 PM.
Baltimore has its jail (almost a castle) and a pseudo supermax very near core, but not on the harbor. When you see it in pictures, it seems to fit. The bigger Dallas problem is the number of sleazy businesses nearby. That does not occur in Baltimore and probably other cities that dealt with the issue. When we ceded the area to the jail, we likely thought we may as well dump these places in the area. They do not need to be there and should not need a lot of investment to move them.
Being next to the jail/courthouse is not a problem. It is likely one of safest places in city. Being around the parade of low lifes cycling through these businesses is.
A developer already has show interest in the land between those bridges and his only concern was the Dawson State Jail just south of Commerce. He cited that the other jail and courts were a positive for the area providing regular activity to the area that a developer could leverage for retail. His proposed development would have centered around the Commerce Street & Riverfront Blvd Intersection all he wanted was for the Dawson State Jail to move out. The city has tried working with the state on moving or outright closing the Dawson State Jail since the state was closing a few jails last year to make up for budget cuts. The city had no luck convincing them we had the right jail to close.
The problem is no one wants a jail near their neighborhood no matter where you move these facilities there would be massive upheaval and public outcry. Governments try to keep from moving jails because they stir up way too many voters. Its like putting a liquor store on your street. Notice how they never just move around because it takes a lot of convincing to build a new one where some locals wont throw a fit and claim that they are are worried about the children...."property values".
Bingo!
It’s the same issue with homeless shelters. They fit in fine if there is enough density, but they are eyesores next to the trinity and our new bridge.
I think we'll need to see much, much more development near the river, on both sides (like the Reunion Arena site and the areas on each side of the MHH and Continental), before anyone takes that idea seriously. But I agree there should be a long-term plan to phase it out. Maybe more like a 20-30 year plan.
Put some fiberglass turrets and embattlements on it ala Cinderellas Castle and Medieval Times....
I think that's part of the problem... if the buildings weren't so ugly....
let's implement a 20-30 year plan to eliminate crime
Why not?
http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...ntrol-behavior
whatever it takes!
It would appear that construction of the Sylvan Avenue bridge will soon begin. There are surveying stakes all over and this sign is now posted by the boat ramp in Trammell Crow park.
photo by RCdave, on Flickr
Sorry for the cruddy IPhone picture
From what I have seen, the bridge will be elevated the width of the floodway, so Sylvan will no longer get closed when the river floods. I also believe that there will be exit ramps down to Trammell Crow Park.
Finally a construction project that I'll be able to document with aerial photos from start to finish.
Do we need a bridge at sylvan? I like the fact that it dips down into the flood plain. If the park is build, it won't flood anymore, right?
No the Trinity park is designed with the idea that it will flood a couple times a year as it always does. Even the Trinity Park bathrooms are designed as temporary movable trailers that get parked at set locations and moved out of the flood zone when flooding rains are on their way. The Trinity Park is really only the city trying to get more use out of the land in between the levees when its not flooded.
The question about whether we need a Sylvan bridge well I think that has to do with traffic circulation and connectivity. One of the key issues with the Trinity now is access. When you improve access to areas they are likely to become more used and by increasing the reliability of the Sylvan connection we could increase the connective tissue between the Design District and West Dallas and the entire Trinity area. It shouldn't require a freeway bridge to get from one place to another for those short trips and in some places along the Trinity its been very much like that and by bringing this road up and out of the flood zone residents and businesses can depend on it for transportation.
AT last check this is what the bridge would include:
3400 ft. long, 28 span bridge
6 lanes with 14 ft. travel/bicycle lanes
6 ft. wide sidewalks in both directions
800 ft. long park access ramp
Retaining walls at bridge approaches
Continuous street lighting
Diaphragm walls and levee modifications
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 14 March 2012 at 04:36 PM.
Interesting. Thanks!
Federal law requires replacement bridges be built out of the floodplain. See the thread on the Northwest Highway bridge over White Rock Creek. The neighborhood wanted the replacement to look like the old bridge, even at the cost of the bridge being closed a few times a year. But our lords and masters in Washington don't allow it.
With all of those lanes, the bridge is going to be nearly 100' wide
Check out the DMN pic of lightning hitting the arch of the MHH bridge, should be on the front page of their website for awhile
http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/2...ike%5B1%5D.jpg
Wow...did that leave a mark?
^ There is a red navigation light on the top. I wonder if it made it.
Here is another article about the picture
http://photographyblog.dallasnews.co...er-mounds.html
The next time I hear the comment "why do ya'll have such a big bridge over such a little 'ol river?", I'll be showing them the bridge webcam archive from today. http://trinityrivercorridor.com/brid...ex_nojava.html
Tell me about it! I'm sick of it too!
I wonder why they are not working on the MHH Bridge 24 hours a day as promised? Last night the lights were not even on. Now that they have pushed the opening into April, because it rained one night, why not just push it into May.
The river is a mile wide in South Dallas. I drove down there after work last night and it's really roaring. The whole of the riverbottom is full. Looking at the water levels of area lakes, Grapevine is over 5 feet high so there should be more water than normal in the river in coming weeks as they drop that extra water out.
Casper, I haven't seen anything official on the opening. I thought it was supposed to be next week. The I-35E Ramp appears to be finished except for barriers and striping. What else is left?
If the opening is indeed now in April, all I can say is TxDOT is a joke.
Lunch time yesterday I was heading back to work and rather than getting off at Continental, I took Woodall Rogers. They were pouring concrete on the approach ramp from southbound I-35 to the MHH bridge. TxDOT said a couple days ago that the rain has pushed back the opening a week. But....that does not matter. What matters is they said a month ago that they were going to work 24/7 to finish the project, come hell or high water. Well, they are not working 24/7. Not that anyone really cares, since no one has yet to explain how to even get on the bridge from Downtown.
Same people who said that the MHH bridge would be open in March are the same ones who said the Northwest Highway bridge and path underneath would be open by now. Instead, they pushed it into the distant future.
If you want to see something cool, flood wise, check this out, from last night. Below, the walnut tree in the foreground is maybe 200 years old. It's at John Neely Bryan's old cabin site. Man in the foreground is Mr Pemberton, great grandson of the pioneer people who settled that land. The red "X" I marked using photoshop, is the location of a railroad spike driven into the tree during the 1908 flood. Spike is still there. In the background is the Trinity. In normal weather, the river channel is over a mile away! Levee building over the last century has pushed water on the residents not protected by the levees, squeezing water elsewhere, so the current flood level in regards to the tree is more like comparing apples to oranges. Pretty cool though how far the water can move.
This Pemberton fellow seems like a genuine badass.
Tighten the female dog!
This is likely the last time we'll see Sylvan Ave closed for flooding. It is my understanding that soon Sylvan will be closed until the new bridge is constructed.
I took this picture this morning from the just inside the floodway on the north side of Sylvan Ave, looking south.
IMG_7796 by RCdave, on Flickr
Along with fixing the Sylvan bridge, the Wycliff-Market Center-Harry Hines connection needs to be fixed. With better, almost direct access, to the medical facilities and wholesale complex, the new and improved Sylvan Bridge will become a huge benefactor to West Dallas residential.
Since I work in the Dallas Trade Mart and Dallas World Trade Center which are at the intersection of Market Center and Harry Hines, I am all to familiar with the problems with those intersections. I have never heard anything about the city trying to correct any of the problems with that area.
You bet. He has that pioneer blood in him. There are many solid people that live along the river in that part of town that are rock solid. He was gonna try and get me to kiss this crawfish. One of those country boy snipe hunting tricks. This crawfish happened to be carrying egg sacks and we put it back. Otherwise I would have ended up with it attached to my nose, I'm afraid.
Calatrava’s $182 Million Bridge Favors Park Over Freeway
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...r-freeway.html
"I strolled down to the riverfront to have a look at the bridge. As I ducked under railroad viaducts clanking with slow freights, I confronted a spaghetti of elevated highways and ramps that took 10 minutes to traverse. Only homeless men shuffled amid the shadows and hellish din of screeching truck brakes.
This wasteland walls off the 1.5-mile western edge of downtown from the river. Jails and derelict industry punctuate leftover bits of space. I had to scale a 30-foot levee to reach the river and bridge."
It is seriously a wasteland. With all this talk about restructuring the Sports Arena TIF to spur growth across the river, I wonder why the city isn't more focused on improving Continental from Houston St to Riverfront. People won't walk or even drive to the Continental Bridge Park if there isn't a safe, well-lit connection from Victory/downtown to the levee.
Interesting article, thanks for posting. I didn't realize Calatrava criticized those sprawling fly over bridges that approach Large Marge from I-35. I'd bet $10 he muted his criticisms while in Dallas since he's trying to get a gig to design I-35 as well.
Also interesting that the author believes the Trinity Trust has nothing to do with the Trinity Toll Road:
I guess Gail Thomas got to this guy and pulled the wool over his eyes. The author is dead on right that the toll road will forever ruin the corridor. But unfortunately, there is absolutely no advocacy group for doing what is right and smart -- I don't think he understands what Trinity Trust is really all about. If they get through the hurdles and ever do eek out enough money to build that toll road, they will be forced to throw out the "context sensitive" BS because it can't be paid for, and we'll wind up with something as awful as the spaghetti string of ramps approaching Large Marge from I-35 and Woodall. Luckily, it can't be built and the budget gaps will protect the river. Thanks to all the, um, "einsteins" who voted for the toll road in 2007, we'll just continue to sit and spin year after year after year.Cheer on the Trinity Trust, whose vision strategically integrates infrastructure and environment-enhancing investments for economic development.
Stop the road builders who hope to cram a new highway into the river-bottom parkland. It would entomb the park completely in yet another soon-to-be-clogged roadway and kill investment by further walling off West Dallas.
Well, that it exactly what it is. A big bridge over a tiny river (that could pass as a ditch, tbh) and large floodplain, in the middle of the vast rolling prairie. Makes no sense, but the bridge is nice to look at when it is all lit up and when the Trinity actually does flood. Maybe the appearance will be better if they ever get those lakes up that they want. I, for one, see no purpose for a faux suspension bridge in the middle of the prairie, but I understand there is a vision that the City of Dallas is trying to create, so I applaud them for their effort. Just seems too gaudy tho.
It's NOT a "faux suspension bridge".
Its a cable stayed bridge its not a suspension bridge.
One little note if you go to Google maps today you will notice the new bridge is actually marked as a driveable road that connects Woodall Rogers to Beckley on the other side. Google has been getting more agressive to make sure its road maps are more up to date so I guess that's why they are so quick to add the new connection into their system.
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 23 March 2012 at 10:59 AM.
Bridges cross all kinds of things, including train yards, plains, gorges, urban space, valleys, etc. I know that people know that, but this is Dallas, an easy target. So we get made fun of because the bridge crosses water.
Well said. Some people are just ignorant for no reason.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
What would you propose that we use to cross this "ditch" if not a bridge?
I kinda think the gaudy factor will be a touch high until other Calatrava components of the horizontal landmark are built.
A tunnel to no where!
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
this looks like somewhere
IMG_1853 by RCdave, on Flickr
this looks like somewhere also
IMG_1645 by RCdave, on Flickr
I see both sides of the bridge and nowhere is nowhere to be found.
Full size images of these pictures and others from the west side of the river can be found here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/4878365...7629651852701/
Last edited by RCdave; 23 March 2012 at 04:13 PM.
You obviously don't know the correct meaning of gaudy.
I dont think it goes no where, I'm joking with those that say this is a pointless bridge to nowhere. I had a feeling no one would get it the second i hit submit. I love the bridge. Love seeing the Levees full of water too.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
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