Reply With QuoteThe top photo is real. The bottom photo is a partial rendering because it represents the finished Calatrava in Dallas -- notice the cars crossing the bridgeOriginally Posted by fabuloCITY
Is that a rendering? It doesn't look real.
The top photo is real. The bottom photo is a partial rendering because it represents the finished Calatrava in Dallas -- notice the cars crossing the bridge
-Ryan
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When you have given nothing, ask for nothing.
Ok, I found the bridge (actually one of 3 bridges in a series) built in Reggio Emilio, Italy. There are two bridges similar to the Dallas bridge which flank a central tied arch bridge. At approximately 226 feet in heighth (190 feet above the platform), they are roughly 1/2 the scale of the Dallas bridge, which is 400 feet tall.
http://www.ce.metu.edu.tr/~ce483/s5.pdf
There is no question in my mind: the extra cost to build visually pleasing bridges across Dallas' Trinity River Flood Plain is an excellent investment.
^ Agreed!
Since we don't have any extra money, we have to use our democratic processes to determine what we'll stop doing in order to pay for this investment. After we solve the $50 MM shortfall already in the city 2012 plan.
/\ thats nothing new we make trade offs in the budget every time we do one... just like I make trade offs in my own budget...
I read that letter... I don't see any issue with what she said... that 65M+ from her letter sounds like it is the final bit of the cost of the bridge. Up to us to decide how much we want the bridge... I expect we will have to put something in regardless of if it is a Calatrava or not.
After all we are talking about a bridge that will be there for 100 years. Do a bond and pay $5M/year or something.
I'm of the same mind of the bridge as Angela Hunt was on the hotel: I don't think it's a smart idea, but we live in a democracy, fancy bridge won't kill anyone, and the people voted. If Dallas City Council finds the money passed by majority vote, then we'll have it and we move on. If we take that attitude with other projects, then we'll have a lot less wasted time. Would the toll road had ever been considered if we admitted to ourselves, when the facts were there in black and white, how much we'd have to pay? Forget about flooding changes, multi-use, sailing, etc. Can we pay for this?
Money is a great invention. It cuts like a laser through the hype and the bull and the pretty pictures. If you can't pay for it, then you can't have it, no matter how much you want it.
I wonder if the money could come from the Trinity River Park bond money-bucket.
No, we don't and I think the idea that we do is one of most dangerous ideas in politics. We live in a constitutional republic and one the biggest reasons our government is a republic and not a democracy is to protect ourselves from the majority making poor decisions.
Expand the tax base and we can pay for a lot of things.
This money would require a bond issue. New bond issues get approved by referendum in Dallas. That's democracy.
One of the most dangerous ideas in politics? Up there with military coups, ballot stuffing, and police beating up candidates with batons? Wow!
Very well said John. It's a shame most folks don't realize this and/or understand the difference and why it's so important.
Republic = rule by law
Democracy = rule by majority or mob
I would agree with you too. Factions are an important part of any society.
Your definition of Democracy is correct, but a Republic is actually rule by representatives elected by the majority or mob
Also, the arch columns in Italy are faceted, while the arch columns in Dallas are cylindrical, which were done for buget reasons and has turned out to be a kind of happy accident. The arch looks more feminine, more elegant and highlights are better.
A republic is a state not ruled by a monarch, someone that formally inherits power by right of birth. Its definition contains no constraints on how the supreme leader or less senior leaders get their posts. A democracy is a system where the general mass of people directly or indirectly select the leaders. The two terms are not in conflict, but one not automatically include the other. United Kingdom is a democracy, but is not a republic. North Korea is a republic, but is not a democracy.
Are there any plans for "visually pleasing bridges" in the works? I'd love to see those.
My definition of a republic was correct as well. Per wikipedia...
A republic is a state under a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government.[1][2] The term is generally also understood to describe a state where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic. One common modern definition of a republic is a state without a monarch.[3][4] The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair".
Because as we all know, wikipedia is always 100% accurate.
The definition, per webster: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
A democracy is everyone voting on everything.
In the US, we have a democratically elected Republic. You can argue all you want, but I just asked my mother in law, which helps people study for their citizenship tests. She confirmed, on the test with the US Government, the answer is "Republic".
I was making fun of Obama last night in his speach as he kept referring to the US Government as a Democracy. Even our President has a hard time distinguishing the difference.
Brian
A democracy does not defiine a government structure. It is not everybody voting for everything. Where did you learn that fact, in grade school? Please.
Being a republic says nothing about how you select the leaders. It only says that the top leader is not born into the job. A democracy tells how a nation selects the leaders that effectively decide its laws.
Quick refresh
US - republic and democracy
UK - monarchy and democracy
Saudi Arabia - monarchy and not a democracy
North Korea - republic and not a democracy
Capiche? Your mother-in-law is not wrong. You are. I would normally not ridicule someone directly, but since you ridiculed the President, a constitutional scholar, a man for whom I normally do not offer support, and obviously knows more on this subject than you do, it seems appropriate. I am glad you got your jollies laughing at the President. Now we got our jollies laughing at you.
The kinds of tangential discussions this bridge causes is a little crazy! I guess it's doing it's job as a controversial piece then, eh?
On topic though: has anyone else noticed that one of the joints has finally been painted over in white? It looks so much cleaner/nicer! It also looks like the deck anchors for the cables are all done. Cable stringing is supposed to start next month, right?
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/a...illuminat.html
The arch will be lit for the Super Bowl
Wow. That's a bright light!
see better pictures that were posted below
Last edited by MDE; 01 February 2011 at 03:20 AM.
During the day it looks like a massive, dirty construction project over a flood plain that is completely disconnected from it's surroundings, framed by one of the largest urban incarceration facilities in the US but you know what they say about the wonders that good lighting can do.
Isn't someone going to post a good photo?
Would you guys settle with Webster?
Democracy
1a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
Republic
1a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit <the French Fourth Republic>
I shot these images around 7:00pm this evening from the Belmont Hotel.
Spectacular images, if I may say so myself, of Downtown Dallas and the fabulous Calatrava Bridge making its presence known in a big way on the Downtown Dallas landscape.
Even with the heavy mist in the air and the Calatrava Bridge not even being completed yet with its spectacular "Golden Gate Bridge" like suspension wires stretching from it in both directions it still makes an incredible impact on the skyline.
Calatrava is the "Bridge to the Future", extending the "golden corridor" of Woodall Rodgers Expressway from Downtown Dallas into West Dallas and Oak Cliff, ultimately bringing billions in new dense skyscraper and highrise urban development with it.
The explosive growth seen along Woodall Rodgers on its north in Uptown and to its south in the traditional Financial District will be repeated in the new urban frontier of West Dallas over the next 10 to 20 years.
West Dallas is currently essentially a wasteland, much like the land where the American Airlines Center and Victory Park were constructed. With the Woodall extension, West Dallas will become the next Uptown with billions in new dense urban development that will increase both the population and tax base for the City.
The growth that will occur there is inevitable, unless the City strangles it through excessive regulation.
One can easily make the argument that Woodall Rodgers has become the new 21st century "Main Street" of Downtown Dallas with the intense dense urban development that is flourishing along its borders.
And as people look back in the next 10 to 20 years, the Calatrava Bridge and the extension of Woodall Rodgers Expressway is one of the keystone developments that will help propel Dallas into its ultimate destiny as the Chicago of the South.
While some may like to call it a bridge to nowhere (either through ignorance or jealousy), in fact it is THE bridge to the future.
Enjoy!
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Last edited by skys the limit; 01 February 2011 at 02:45 AM.
Thank you for the pictures i like the way you think we both have the same point of view!
FRANKI FRANK
Thank you for your comment.
New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago did not become the major metropolises that they are with small minded people at the helm.
Dallas is destined to become the Chicago of the South for various reasons that I will not go into here. But if our City government cannot think of itself in that manner, it will be that much more difficult for it to happen. Not impossible, because private enterprise will still find ways to make it happen on their own, but if City government is an obstacle to growth it just makes it that much harder.
Mayor Leppert has been an incredible Mayor for the City of Dallas. I actually hope he postpones his political aspirations for the Senate until after a second 4 year term as our Mayor to help continue the solid progress this City has seen under his stewardship.
Thank you again for your comment!
I'm so glad I got to see better pictures before I went to bed! I also saw it on TV and it looks so nice. I think they should consider keeping the blue (rather than white) forever. That 3rd picture really makes me like this bridge. I think it will really add to the already awesome nighttime skyline. From that side of DT, it REALLY goes well with BofA. Thanks for putting up the pics!
You're up late, like me tonight!
With the impending icy/snowy weather in the morning I'm being "bad" by staying up later than normal because I know it will be more difficult to get to work tomorrow morning (it doesn't hurt that I own my own small business in Deep Ellum, so it doesn't matter per se).
But I want to thank YOU for your comments!
Yes, the view of Downtown Dallas from the Belmont Hotel is nothing short of spectacular.
And the reality is that there was still a significant "chunk" of urban density that I did not capture in my photos of Downtown's Uptown District stretching north because the trees from my particular vantage point at the Belmont Hotel blocked the view!
But clearly the view from the Belmont Hotel of "Downtown Dallas" includes Uptown, Victory Park, the traditional Financial District, and South Side -- for all those who want to try to differentiate between those districts -- because in reality they all meld together and comprise "Downtown Dallas".
Thanks again for your comments!
Sleep tight!
Last edited by skys the limit; 01 February 2011 at 04:02 AM.
Can I have some of what you're smoking???
Can I have some of what you're smoking???
I'm sure you would have been one of those who would have said the earth is flat!
We all know how that turned out!
LOL!
Skys I like your photos and your optimism. That's what Dallas is built upon.
How does ending that freeway in West Dallas turn out any differently than ending Central Expressway in that area between Downtown and Deep Ellum? I might get the part about the bridge. Is accessibility really an issue to West Dallas? I thought the boost for West Dallas was going to be its location as the undeveloped side of Trinity Park. If that area does develop, having the end of a six lane freeway in your neighborhood would not be an asset. Would you have cars breaking off I-30 on Beckley and going through the neighborhood to get to Woodall Rogers, bypassing the mixmaster?
West Dallas is already a huge cut through for people going N/S to bypass the mixmaster on sylvan, hampton, westmoreland.
There are already a lot of people that cut through the neighborhoods when hampton/westmoreland backs up, and like you said this probably will only get worse when the bridge opens. I know I plan to use the bridge to bypass the woodall/35 intersection to get to 75 once it opens.
This is exactly what I was doing! Hahaha.
I do hope, though, that the bridge does some good for VP, West End, and West Dallas. It sure would be nice to put those naysayers to rest. We shall see! There's already some great development plans for Singleton right around that bridge! Hopefully that 17-year(?) plan gets expedited to ... 5. Here's to hoping!
Too bad the wakeboard park for West Dallas was cock blocked by maryann russ - that would have given west dallas a real destination and reason to use the bridge
It seems like the Dallas skyline was built with the Belmont in mind. Great shots skys.
Thanks for those great shots!
My shot is not as impressive as the shots above. But do realize that I took this shot from my condo in Sundance Square of Downtown Fort Worth....
Also note all the blue NFC lighting on buildings.
That is an amazing shot considering its 20+ miles awayMy shot is not as impressive as the shots above. But do realize that I took this shot from my condo in Sundance Square of Downtown Fort Worth....
Also note all the blue NFC lighting on buildings.
Thanks for sharing
That's an understatement. I've read a number of posts from people who've question the impact of this bridge on the skyline (e.g., nobody will see it, it doesn't stand out). If it's that visible and prominent from 20+ miles away, I think that qualifies as a substantial impact.
Even my grandmother has been asking me what the white arch thing is she see's sometimes when traveling on the freeway visiting various family members and she lives in Pleasant Grove. I told her it was a bridge and she was confused but then I explained to her that it was a cable stay bridge design.
While I'm not a bridge fan, I would never say it would not be noticable. It's going to have that spiderweb of wires around it that I suspect will look fine in the bright sun and at night with lights. It's the same as that bridge you see in the North Boston movies.
The comment regarding the skyline was whether it was worth the money to just make a skyline change.
So how's the bridge coming along?
Looks nice all lit up in blue for the SB.
Side note: the compare/contrast Dallas and Houston offshoot discussion has been cleared from this thread.
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