Reply With Quote^ I suspect you'll see on a typical day the Jack-In-The-Box getting 50-100x the users of the so-called bridge park.
I think some people would like to see more connective neighborhood type development at the new entrance of the West Dallas community rather than just another car driven fast food joint with a discouraging pedestrian activity parking lot. Since the Continental Bridge park will be such an attractive amenity that any residential would love to have direct access to it can be discouraging to see another boring suburban fast food chain plop down on such a important plot of land.Originally Posted by Tnekster
^ I suspect you'll see on a typical day the Jack-In-The-Box getting 50-100x the users of the so-called bridge park.
http://www.trinityrivercorridor.org/...ics/index.html
What are the white poles going up on the Hunt Hill Bridge?
Lighting?
I know everybody would like to see something else here but this is what the market demands. It's Jack........for now.
All traffic is not created equal; nor is all commerce. It may very well be good business for Jack-In-the-Box--but it's not very attractive or "interesting".
You might be right but part of that reason would be that the properties with close access to the Continental Bridge Park will be so lacking of density, pedestrian connections and a sense of place that it discourages use of the park killing the usefulness of the park before it even starts construction.
And I'd absolutely be more likely to rent an apartment if it was walking distance to Jack's...
Times weighs down on you like an old, ambiguous dream. You keep on moving, trying to slip through it. But even if you go to the ends of the earth, you won't be able to escape it.
Haruki Murakami
I don't know about you, but after walking all the way across the refurbished Continental bridge, I'm going to be both hungry and thirsty, and a Jack-in-the-Box would be very handy to meet my needs.
Well then your gonna be disappointed to hear Jacks closed a couple of months ago forced out by the property owner for what sounded like another offer from a possible tenant that so far has not materialized.
We aren't going to see pedestrian friendly Dallas overnight. Cars are here and they're going to stay here for some time so until then, any new growth should be seen as a good sign.
You're under the impression that the force which shapes our cities is "what the people want?" Sure, it will be built and people will eat there -- but that's not because Jack in the Box is the ultimate satisfaction the masses clamor for.
Should who ever owns that spot say, "No thanks, I don't want to sell this just yet. I am hoping a trendy little second-hand clothing store decides to open up here some day down the road.... No, no... put your money back in your wallet... I don't want it."
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
Its ok everybody I am not suggesting that Jack in the Box is the devil or that cars are the Satan's instruments of darkness. I was just pointing out the problems with disconnecting infrastructure that has to be paid attention to if we want these investments to get their full value. If the city is gonna build a bridge park and expects people to use and pay for its maintenance they have to follow through with setting thinks up for success not failure from the beginning. Its like building a car dealer ship in the middle of a lakewho would by a car from a dealership if its surrounded by a body of water its an unintended deterrence. If you surround a park that you intend/design to be used by pedestrians and bikers and surround it with too much car based infrastructure its just like building a moat around it discouraging the use it was designed for.
They can say whatever they want. But if they were smart, they wouldn't sell at a pad site valuation. Jack in the Box may have seen the purchase as a real estate investment as much as a fast food location.
They have real ice cream shakes... yum :-)
I hope the street car plan includes a stop at Jack!
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
You obviously havent been following that project. The Oak Cliff street car plan goes nowhere near this area it crosses the Trinity down on the Houston Street Viaduct and stops at Methodist. If it were to expand later it would go further south into the Bishop Arts not travel that far north.
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 14 September 2011 at 12:11 AM.
Thats true they can be bought out just as much as anybody can down the line if the Continental Bridge Park and the Calatrava bridge has a positive effect that makes fast food use less profitable when compared with a land sell to a new developer.
Hey yall should know I love a good Jack in the Box shake myself so I wont deny that when the park does eventually open I will walk across knowing that there is a affordable food establishment on the other side. How will the joke go "Why did the pedestrian cross the Continental Bridge Park? To get to the Jack in the Box on the other side"
I was just pointing out what is usually brought up when referencing Dallas overall problems with implementing good urban planning, connectivity.
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 14 September 2011 at 12:10 AM.
It was a joke :-)
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
Ah well I didn't catch it next time maybe.
To be fair, this Jack In The Box is being built next to a gas station (I believe the Shell station caddy corner to Big Daddy's Liquor), so it's not like this is being built in place of some residential or mixed-use project. There is a ton of land next to both bridges that is prime for the kind of development we want to see.
P.S. That new pole going across the bridge was not in any rendering that I saw.
Screen shot 2011-09-15 at 2.15.16 PM.jpg
Last edited by lakewoodhobo; 15 September 2011 at 03:16 PM.
That's the thing this is a place where mixed use, residential, or some commercial project would go. The city is certainly trying to encourage that kind of development in this area but to be honest most new development in this are so far has been along Hi-Line Drive so if some kind of more urban development were to be interested it would be a long shot or just a really good land deal. For now I think most new development in this area will focus around Hi-Line drive since they are getting enough numbers of units over there to get a real neighborhood off the ground. Any development on this plot would be dealing with traffic noises from the Woodall Rogers freeway and the demand to live near the Trinity Bridge even with the park doesn't seem strong enough to overcome the freeway yet. Who knows what we will see in the future in the area.
Do some of the cables maybe cut across the inside lanes at an angle where a height restriction needs to be posted, and that is what the new poles on either end are for?
Last edited by jredallas; 15 September 2011 at 05:43 PM.
Could those new poles be to support large direction signs?
I'm hoping they are not permanent cause it sure does ruin the view with that large white pole stretched across the whole width of the bridge.
Those poles are a lot closer to the levee than they look in that picture. They are along way from the arch.
Thanks for the perspective rantanamo. I'm sure most drivers will be distracted away from the directional signs by the awesome view rather than the reverse. Will be interesting to see if any fender-benders occur right after opening due to drivers looking upward.
LOL
Design: where architect's dreams and watercolor renderings go to die.
Today another huge pole is going up in the median. This puppy is getting more and more cluttered.
Pretty soon we won't have to worry about drivers getting distracted by the arch because they won't be able to see it. :-)
They're doing a great job hacking this piece of art to pieces. That happens when the concept was flawed from the start.
It's like Dallas commissioned a monumental sculpture for its back yard, then discovered they couldn't barbeque on it. Chop Chop Chop. Modification time!
wow that is a tall pole. I want to say that it's for a high-mast light, but the bridge deck already has street level lighting on it's perimeter throughout. ohhh dallas..
Got to see my first floater on the Trinity River this evening. Came down the Katy Trail then over to the levees with a few friends. Been waiting for a good rain to really pack down the levee roads. Saw a ton of commotion on the Jefferson Street Viaduct. People gawking, fire trucks etc.
There has been enough current in the last few days to move things downstream rather than just sit and bob.
Photo from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Fox:
How did he die?
I did not hear. No one got close, we left before the boat showed up. A couple of the onlookers were homeless men who said they knew all the locals that hang out in that area. They told us they did not recognize the person.
The water there is shallow, less than knee deep except during heavy rains. So it would seem impossible that an adult could drown anywhere within a mile or two of there. Bridges are not really high enough to jump from to kill yourself. I think people that have tried in the past usually botch it and end up with broken legs.
The city is doing a much better job getting rid of the people living under the bridges. It was a problem in the past. Now that the area is frequently patrolled by the Marshal's Office, I never see them under the bridges. It's very safe down there.
Updated rendering from the city:
margaret_hunt_hill_bridge_c250809_sc.jpeg
What Marshal's Office? Fire or U.S.? Only ones I have heard.
They are the City of Dallas Marshal's office. The two places I have seen them are at the old city hall on Main Street where they work for the city courts or down in the river bottoms. Along the river they patrol 4x4 Dodge Durango SUVs. They have an illegal dump patrol unit of 4 officers that is responsible for the whole city. A ton of ground to cover.
anyone know what the giant pole could be for?
i don't think it's for lighting, seeing as they have many of those
Well if you look at the Webcam closely they have two of those giant poles one on each side of the arch or on each side of the river but I am totally confused at what they could be.
To me that *look* like flag poles, but your guess is as good as mine.
You know, if they do three on each side they could go with a Six Flags over Texas motif....
Honestly, what does this have to do with the Trinity BRIDGES?Got to see my first floater on the Trinity River this evening. Came down the Katy Trail then over to the levees with a few friends. Been waiting for a good rain to really pack down the levee roads. Saw a ton of commotion on the Jefferson Street Viaduct. People gawking, fire trucks etc.
There has been enough current in the last few days to move things downstream rather than just sit and bob.
Photo from Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Fox:
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
sweet.
then we will get a calatrava roller coaster to go with,
if it doesnt have to do with a future lazy river, then i have no idea how it is related ( ok, sarcasm off)
i agree it looks the most like a calatrava flag pole, possibly as mentioned earlier, as a base for a high mast light, which doesnt entirely make sense because of the other lighting. If i were Calatrava i'd be agitated to modifications of his design, since it isnt in any renderings
i believe CasperITL related the article to speculation of the man jumping off a bridge somewhere along the trinity
Because the police speculated he jumped off the Jefferson Street Viaduct over the Trinity. He was found under the Jefferson Street Viaduct. In the Trinity River. In Dallas. Sorry to detour your Jack In The Box thread!
The poles could be to mount traffic cameras to.
They're building a brand new 6 lane bridge, a very beautiful one I might add, to replace a 4 lane bridge. The old 4 lane bridge will be converted into a pedestrian bridge, hopefully beautiful as well.
I don't think seeing a Jack-in-the-Box drive-in restaurant moving in on a street with more vehicle lanes and more traffic is unusual. I wouldn't be surprised to see more drive-in restaurants move in with the increased traffic. That new bridge does have another purpose than just look pretty.
Nope.
They are flagpoles. Big ass flagpoles.
The soccer goal looking bracket things on the ends will be for large traffic billboards.
The TxDOT guy I saw down there this evening said that they would read Fort Worth Avenue etc etc etc. I think residents of Fort Worth will get a laugh out of a "signature" bridge in Dallas that has Fort Worth written on it but nowhere will it say Dallas!
You guys did not think that it was going to remain a bright, white, simple design like all the other ones? Gotta spruce it up and add some flair, you know. Fix it. Add color. Signs. Flags. Banners.
Worst thing about the flag poles is they have a Doric column finish to them and don't match anything else.
*sigh
did TxDOT come up with the idea of the poles? is it too late to get rid of them?
more importantly, are they as tall as they appear,i.e as the arc?( the MHH webcam is from a weird angle)
Thanks for the pics, I need to drive by and check that out. It does sound like local lobbying muckety mucks decided we needed to do better than plain jane approaches, TxDOT was given some meager additional budget to spice up the approaches somehow, some civil engineer got the budget and was tasked with figuring out how to spend it, said engineer came up with a tack-on design concept, and voilà, we end up with something like this. I'm starting to realize that with all the power lines, flag poles and traffic signs, it's going to be a challenge to get a clean picture of this bridge. This is supposed to be the type of centerpiece that you'll want to get almost 360 degree views all around the bridge, at least maximize it to the greatest extent possible.
Found this in an old 2008 *.pdf file on the dallas city hall dot com website
mhh-poles.jpg
I'd guess that the highway signage on the end(s) is an unavoidable requirement. But, again, that is just a guess. By the way, great photos up there, Casper!
Here is a view from a little further away, the pink survey flags in the foreground are where the planned better block project trail is located.
I think this is what everyone wants to avoid:
Bonus: From where the levee meets the Calatrava Bridge you now get a great view of the new JITB. It's in a perfect sight line from the bridge to Victory!
Did anyone here seriously not look at the plans for this? The light poles and gantries have been planned like this from as early as 2004. If you're basing your expectations of this project base solely on renderings you must've never seen a finished project before. Take a look at most renderings and every project on a city street has fully matured trees, a crowd of people and few if any cars. Artists don't clutter their designs with things from real life, or it takes away from the project itself.
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