Big dreams outline future plans for downtown Houston
By Jessica Willey
ABC13 Eyewitness News
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/pri...townplans.html
(10/18/04 - HOUSTON) — There is no denying the two new sports facilities have given downtown Houston a big boost, not to mention light rail and the Main Street district. But downtown leaders are planning much more for the future of downtown. Fifteen months in the making, downtown development leaders are calling these plans the framework for the future of downtown. They are long-term and even include the possibility of moving I-45
Downtown Houston has come a long way in the last 20 years, but it still has a long way to go.
"I think they need to work on more mass transit," suggested one resident.
"Probably more retail," another felt.
Another Houstonian added, "A casino would be nice!"
While there are no plans for a casino, downtown development leaders do have a grand vision for Houston for the next 20 years -- a framework to help make the city more vibrant. Guy Hagstette of the Downtown District said, "We think residential is a key issue for downtown." Hagstette unveiled the vision Monday. It makes residential neighborhood development a top priority. Currently only 3,000 people live in downtown, the planners want that to be 20,000 by 2025. Building up will be essential.
There is a focus on sidewalks, more family-friendly community venues and green space. For instance, the concrete around the George R. Brown Convention Center could be transformed into a vast central park -- a contrast to its surroundings. "We would want very dense, dense development around it, but then you'd have a very green, somewhat natural feeling oasis around it," explained Bob Eury of Central Houston, Inc. Luring new retail to downtown is also part of this plan. Foleys would be the center point of a retail district. Planners hope to have an incentive package to offer retailers as early as next year. The most ambitious part of the plan revolves around I-45 to the west of downtown. The proposal is to move less than a mile of freeway to the west about 500 feet. Buffalo Bayou and the Theater District would be unobscured and planners promise downtown would be easier to get to.
This vision for downtown is just a concept right now, but backers believe it's all attainable. Eury said, "I think when we look back to our experience over the last 10 years, we say, 'Wow! I can't believe we did that.' And I think for this it's going to be hard, but we can do it." Planners admit implementing this vision won't be easy and there will likely be many changes. As for the plans for I-45, the move would happen only when TxDOT was ready to refurbish that section of freeway. That could be as far off as the year 2025.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
I wish that Dallas would do this, rather than just "sprucing" up the freeways around downtown.As for the plans for I-45, the move would happen only when TxDOT was ready to refurbish that section of freeway. That could be as far off as the year 2025
It's great to see that Houston is making such progress, maybe Dallas will soon catch-up or surpass in the downtown venture area.
BTW....does anyone know what the status is on our downtown parks and when those are supposed to start?
A plan? Hmmm...what a novel concept.Originally Posted by gc
You mean, moving them 500 feet? Luckily, Dallas is already two-up on Houston: I-30 is a canyon and Woodall Rogers is partially a canyon. That provides a direct link between south and north Dallas with no freeway obstruction.. Cedars --> Downtown --> Uptown. If we can get I-35E to be a tunnel and I-345 to be trenched, things will be much better. I-345 is a major barrier to Deep Ellum, the elevated portions of Woodall Rogers (would be trenched if I-35E and I-345 were trenched/tunneled) are major barriers between State Thomas and the Arts District and the West End and Victory, and Stemmons is a massive, almost impassable barrier.. (not like anyone would want to cross it in the first place.) With the addition of the Trinity tollway, it's going to be even harder to cross to reach the Trinity River Park that's supposed to "revitalize downtown." I don't know what kind of plan would make I-35E less of a pain. The things a mess from Mexico to the Red River.
[ xvisionx.com 13 - my photo gallery + journal ] - be sure to check out my new interactive downtown dallas picture map.
Agreed.
RE: DT Parks. I have sent another inquiry to the folks at city hall. But, we know how responsive they typically are. Who knows?
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Very true Drumguy, you also ask yourself why I345 wasnt in the project pegasus plans anyways. I wonder if all these sprucing up of the freeways of Project Peguses (spell that right?) will have a future option of being Decked, I read somewhere that 75 has been built for future Deck/Park w/e. Also Woodall...actually I think that discussion was on this Forum.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
What? How is a sunk highway different from an elevated highway in terms of being pedestrian-friendly? Walking under a highway is just as easy as walking over one.
"There is much to admire, but little to deplore,—many things to enchant, but few to offend,—and for the people, and their institutions, there is a splendid future, behold what you may, see what you can, believe {what you} have a mind to. . .I have given you a very reliable description of the country in which I live and am unwilling to exchange for the frozen North."
—M. J. Mathis of Dallas County, writing to friends in 1859
www.haribon.org.ph
Well, you can add deck parks atop a highway, but you can't put a park on top of an elevated highway. Elevated highways are dark and damp, normally dirty, and are big, obstructing masses of concrete. With a sunken highway, you're walking under the sky, there can be greenery around you because it has sunlight to grow, etc. I'd rather walk across Woodall than under Stemmons.
Pegasus. You spelled it right earlier..
[ xvisionx.com 13 - my photo gallery + journal ] - be sure to check out my new interactive downtown dallas picture map.
Forgive me Drumguy, I'm an idiot.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
I'm probably one of the few people who actually LIKE elevated freeways, especially in a downtown or dense setting. It kinda gives the area a city-like feel, a gritty feel from the underworld, that quite frankly, I find somewhat soothing.
You know 2112, I've felt the same way. Ha, I just really could never bring myself to admit it. Atleast I45 looks good in downtown Dallas and theyve added benches and murals underneath it.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
Its funny you said that: Houston did the same thing on the Pierce elevated (my favourite), which also is the I-45 stretch that goes through downtown, and they also spruced up the street right next to it and parallel to it, with trees, benches, brick pavers on the crosswalks. But I think it takes a way from the grit that is the reallity underneath the elevated. I love winters, where the street people sometimes light up fires in old barrels, and just hang around. Right next to that is the Greyhound terminal and all that that implies. The new benches and tress somehow seem out of place there. But thats just me.
Here is the video on the project
http://houstondowntown.com/Home/Brea...wnin2025Video/
Last edited by uptown; 22 November 2004 at 09:18 PM.
Man the first part of that video almost made me sick it was so fast! And I also find it funny in one of the renderings that they have an 80's Buick in it with all these modern buildings around it!
I think promotional videos are usually great. That one needed some serious work.
Why do you say that? I think the surroundings in the video were very accurate. Maybe it is just me since I am kind of familiar with downtown Houston.
No, it's because it was a badly made video.
Word!
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
Plan = Good.
Video = Bad.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Well, what's the point of producing a really kick-ass video if you're not going to do anything with it? Like, what ever happened to "My Dallas" that The Richards Group delivered.
I hope something nice is done with Buffalo Bayou.
Downtown is also building some kickass brownstones currently that will go great with this development.
My Dallas is shown on plazma screens at DFW, I know that much. I saw it there when I was flying up to NYC for a college audition. There was a small group surrounding it and watching, too.
Now that was a well-made video!
It was extremely impressive.. but I'm lost as to what its done for Dallas. It's located at the very bottom of the Dallas CVB page. You'd think they'd like.. send it out to people. Or, do they? I think we should blanket nearby major cities with promo copies.. but that would be rather costly..
[ xvisionx.com 13 - my photo gallery + journal ] - be sure to check out my new interactive downtown dallas picture map.
Just spent Thanksgiving in Houston and stayed at the Sam Houston Hotel downtown, a few blocks from Main Street.
Downtown Dallas is downright embarassing compared to Downtown Houston. And you have no idea how much it pains me to say that. Thankfully we have a lot of people, including those on this board, who care about Downtown Dallas and are taking steps to make it better. But as it stands now, Downtown Houston puts us to shame.
Sorry for the rant.
"You look at Chicago, New York, San Francisco, you'll find lots of small businesses. But here in Dallas, they hold up big businesses and kick out small businesses, and that's not good."
However, there is one very big problem with the way Houston works. To speak of, outside of downtown, there are pretty much no "urban centers" of any sort. All the finest stores and restaurants, the highest living, it's all either in downtown or over towards the Galleria. There are other truly urban areas of interest outside of downtown in Dallas. True, it's no excuse for the fact that yes, Houston's downtown is more lively, but it's just something that bothered me.
Houston got a head start on Dallas in this deptartment about 5 years ago. But what really gave Houston a boost were the block-party-style events they had during the Superbowl and MLB Allstar Game this year. Those events realy set a standard for their downtown, and encouraged a lot of people from the area to visit Downtown Houston who might not have visited if those events weren't being held there.
Dallas has yet to hold an event downtown that would draw the numbers of people from around the metroplex so that we could "showcase" what downtown Dallas has to offer in terms of nighttime entertainment. The City leaders had a chance to do something similar with the Trinity Fest celebration (I think that crowds in 2001 approached 80,000), but for some reason, they decided not to take advantage of that opportunity. As a matter of fact, this year they took steps to significantly reduce the number of people attending.
I think an event like this (Trinity Fest) can go a long way towards "showcasing" Downtown Dallas to a large group of people who might not otherwise know what's going on Downtown. What do you guys think about this theory?
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I must say that I totally and completely agree. I was bewildered by their decision to practically dismantle TrinityFest as they did this year.
I'm very down on Dallas right now. Lots of neighborhood groups with no cohesion and no vision. That's why DT Dallas will always be behind the curve.
Well, I guess what you mean by that is pedestrian friendly areas. There are several, but not many, in Houston. The Rice Village, The Montrose, Downtown, and even Uptown (to some extent), has a somewhat pedestrian-freindly slant, with the exception of trying to cross Westehiemer blvd.
But being "urban" , to me at least, has more to do with a feel and energy and not just being pedestrian friendly. Dont get me wrong, I am really envious of Dallas's Uptown with its pedestrian geared areas. However, the energy and feel of the urban experience exists everywhere in Houston, just like it does in Dallas, not just in Uptown Dallas or Downtown Houston.
^ word 2112.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
sorry, 2112, but there is not much urban energy in either unless you are comparing them to their own suburban areas. During the Superbowl there was. Everyday? No. Same for Dallas. Let's keep it real here.
Like I said, urban to me is a total "feel" that doesnt just mean "I can walk block-to-block and have storefronts butt up against sidewalks" all over the place, ala SoHo or Greenwhich Village. Its just as much about having a mass of people everywhere, traffic, commerce. The giant network of spegetti freeway interchanges seem urban. The port is very urban. The Washburn tunnel is urban. The mass of people, busses, and cars on the freeways is urban. And even the Galleria is urban. Its the opposite of farms, the opposite of North Dakota. Hell, even the Greyhound terminal, the street people under the Elevated's has "urban" written all over it. Hey, but that's just me....
those would be suburban feels to me. The only urban feel in Texas would be the Riverwalk.
It's not just me, as it turns out. "Urban" is actually accepted as simply "relating to a city". I know what you are saying, in that what we all desire is dense, pedestrian-freindly, existence. But that is a more specific component WITHIN the urban idea. It's all good....
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...q=define:urban
back when city was defined, Dallas was not what they had in mind.
Neither was the automobile. Neither was the internet.
Hell, neither was modern sewage.
Celebrating the urban greatness of Texas: Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, El Paso and Fort Worth.
doesn't make it anymore urban.
This is a misunderstanding. Dallas did not set out to cancel the Trinty Fest, what happened was the city was in agreement with the company sponsoring the event up until this year. If anything they were in the planning stages until the 11th hour. Basically the city tried to make this a very low cost event for the sponsoring company by lowering the cost of the lease for the venue, and the city agreed to supply cleanup and porta potties and whatever other basic services. In agreement the company agreed to pay something like 30,000 or maybe it was as high as 80,000 to the city. However the company essentially stiffed the bill and the city gave them to the very last minute to try and allow the company to render a solution. But city council did not see it in the best interest to allow the same company to perform the event again given the previous year.
Then let us hope that they do not make the same mistake again.
I have to say that the Village area in Houston is very much urban. Sidewalk retailers, modern townhomes lining the streets, some gritty and vintage style establishents exist in the area, and the pedestrian activit is amazing. I remember shopping at Urban Outfitters in the village, and the whole time I was thinking to myself, I wish Dallas had more sidewalk retail like I saw in Houston. To tell you the truth, before I went to Houston last month, I was not really a big fan of the place and I thought it was over hyped, but the city has definitely fixed its mistakes. Lionel Hutz, I agree with everything you said. I also stayed in downtown at Hotel Icon, and it has truly became a downtown where you never have to leave the city center to have a great time. The hotels are kind of expensive, but it is worth it.
Houston, like Dallas has areas that it does aight in, but we're talking urban energy here. Visit DT LA. Even that place has more urban energy. Putting up a few retailers and some urban design don't make for urban. I come to this conclusion after my quick travels the last few months. Texas cities are simply put to shame and it aint even funny. We are the McMansion kings.
I wish I could disagree with you.
Ill tell you what, the grass is always greener on the other side. I just had relatives from Mexico City for the holidays. If anyone has ever been there, you know that it is an enormous city, with many urban areas. Thier downtown around the Zocolo and Cathedral is briming with streetvendors and is always packed with people.
Yet, they couldnt get over our downtown nightlife, our endless shopping centers. But what was really wierd is they thought our humongous interchanges were just these maganificant works of art.
They want our shopping areas and our infrastructure, and we want thier old-fashion streetlife.
Go figure.
Maybe Dallas is trying to create a healthy median between the two opposing forces.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
There's still no night and day urbanly energetic area besides the riverwalk.
Ehh, maybe downtown Plano.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
^You know, that may be actually true to some degree. I think if there were simply more residentials in Deep Ellum it might be true.
...nor underneath it, or over it.
Did anyone happen to see the report on Fox4 news' last night regarding comparissons to Downtown Houston and Downtown Dallas? The report basically centered around the two brothers who own "St. Pete's Dancing Marlin." The report magnified the success of Houston's Downtown (especially along Main Street) and the fact that Downtown Dallas lags behind Houston in foot traffic, etc.
To illustrate the contrasts between the two, the reporter interviewed the brother managing St. Pete's in Houston (on Main Street), and the other brother who manages St. Pete's in Deep Ellum (Commerce Street). The guy in Houston said that his business was up about 12% from last year and the forecast was even better. He attributed much of the success to the Superbowl, MLB Allstar Game, and light rail and stated that Main Steet was the place to be. In contrast, his brother managing the Deep Ellum location stated that business was down about 10% from last year, and complained of panhandlers and other vagrants as a contributing factor. He said that basic city services were being neglected in the area.
The reporter went out of her way, I think, to film people walking up and down Houston's Main Street, light rail and restaurant patrons dining and walking in and out of establishments. The reporter also went out of her way to film St. Pete's in Deep Ellum with no one walking in front and other areas that look vacant.
While I agree that Downtown Dallas lags behind Downtown Houston in terms of nightlife, I think that this report was unbalanced in a few areas:
1. Comparrison of DT Houston to Deep Ellum (Specifically Commerce Street)
2. No mention of DT Dallas Nightlife (i.e. Purgatory, BLUE, Jeroboam, Starck Club, Metropolitan Bar & Grill, O Bar,TPhezi's, etc.)
3. It didn't mention other parts of Deep Ellum (i.e. Main Street, Elm Street) where the action is really at.
4. It didn't mention other parts near DT Dallas where a lot of people choose to hang out (i.e. West Villiage, Uptown)
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
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