From one of the original Cotton Dome Foundation members. I don't have any details though.Originally Posted by gc
Maybe its the Cotton Dome committee. I mean, these people still live in Dallas. I think most had the impression they wanted the Cotton Dome to lure the Cowboys. That's absolutely false. Would love to see them come back.
From one of the original Cotton Dome Foundation members. I don't have any details though.
^ This thread has been dead lately.
Just a side note here, but it had been a long long time since I sat in the Cotton Bowl until last week's Cotton Bowl Game. It is terrible. The seats, the bathrooms, the configuration, etc are bad bad bad. I will reiterate that this stadium needs to be a high priority for Dallas in the coming years.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
^Can you tell that $16 million is not enough? The place needs a good $100 million if they want to do what they are talking about right.
^ Yep.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
They need some private investors.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
Build a new 100,000+ seat stadium on the parking lot and retire the original field. The facade could make for an interesting entry into another exhabition hall.
If I were doing this, I'd do it in stages.
2005: New scoreboards, replace all "prime" seating with new seats. Refurbish walkways and add bathrooms.
2006: demolish endzone seating and erect new, closer endzone seating(only one deck high) Replace all individual seating to backed benches except for new prime seating(ala the Rose Bowl)
2006: Create luxury ring of luxury boxes above the first tier of seating. Create hosptitality area behind east grandstand that connects to the new luxury box level
2007: add smaller upper decks above endzone seating and luxury boxes.
If doming:
2008: Create new enclosed areas to prepare for roof, and roof support and infrastructure
2009: roof it.
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
^ Probably not, but that is a good idea and plan IMO
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
According to Laura Miller it doesn't make sense to dome the Cotton Bowl with all of the domed stadiums in the metroplex, either existing or proposed.
Dallas uber alles
One, ready in 2009?
If LM said that, I'll never listen to anything else she has to say. Faheva eva.
Faheva eva?
"There is much to admire, but little to deplore,—many things to enchant, but few to offend,—and for the people, and their institutions, there is a splendid future, behold what you may, see what you can, believe {what you} have a mind to. . .I have given you a very reliable description of the country in which I live and am unwilling to exchange for the frozen North."
—M. J. Mathis of Dallas County, writing to friends in 1859
www.haribon.org.ph
^Sorry Ms. Miller, we are for real!
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
Public subsidy
I recall reading last year that the Cowboys originally picked Fair Park as a first choice for their stadium after taking a survey of Dallas County residence which indicated a majority would be willing to support a subsidized Cowboy stadium. Based on this, do you think a majority of Dallas county citizens would support a public subsidy to renovate the Cotton Bowl or build a new stadium?
Faheva evaFaheva eva?
Better question: Would such an issue ever even reach the ballot. If it did, the next layer of Dallas filter would be out in force (you know who you are). Only private investors can save the ship. If I lived there, I'd vote yes for $100-$150 million.
I would think the $70 million noted below would justify a public subsidy. Other than the Cotton Bowl and Texas OU weekend what other major tourist events are in Dallas?
Cotton Bowl brings tourists, cash
07:03 PM CST on Thursday, December 30, 2004
By GARY REAVES / WFAA-TV
The Cotton Bowl week is the second biggest money machine in Dallas tourism, worth some $70 million. With the game just a day and a half away, the cash and visitors are already rolling in.
<!-- Refer begins here --><!-- Refer ends here -->Contributing to the take this week is The Pride of the Southland, the University of Tennessee marching band. It takes six buses and a handful of Tennessee state troopers to handle the group -- some 300 strong.
"We love Dallas. It's a great city," band director Gary Sousa said. "The Cotton Bowl people work so hard. They treat the bands like kings and it's a great bowl to be at."
The Tennessee band will stay at the Hilton at Lincoln Center. The hotel is also the host for the Texas Aggie band.
"We're all pumped to be at a bowl game this year, unlike last year," Sophomore Robert Spence said.
For hotel manager Joe Palmieri, it beats the heck out of his previous jobs in Washington and Philadelphia, where, except for New Year's Eve, he said, hotels are almost empty. "It's worth about 600 room nights for us over three days, which is typically kind of slow ... so it's a great piece of business for us," he said.
Sousa praised the location as well. "The kids get meal money and we're right by the Galleria and we're going down to the West End, so we'll spend a few dollars here in Dallas while they are here."
In the West End, band members were welcomed by banners from the local businesses that thrive on the tourist trade.
Even the conspiracy theorists down at Dealey Plaza have to love the crowds the Cotton Bowl brings.
The stadium in Fair Park need to have a roof so it can be used for other events during the Spring and Summer.
The nature of events that could be held at a domed stadium in Fair Park is endless.
Rodeos, conventions, concerts, all sorts of events during the State Fair, arena football games, NCAA football and basketball games, high school football games, religious revivials, ect. Not to mention all of the facilities already in Fair Park which could support major conventions.
I agree
That was an exact quote from Laura Miller by the way.
Dallas uber alles
This game has so many problems. There were reports of a few lots bringing people in, taking money, and then putting up a no parking sign so the vehicles would be towed ... with the process being repeated a couple of times. The stadium is in such terrible shape that 16 million dollars is nothing more than yet another band-aid on a gaping sore. The city blew it by not negotiating with the Cowboys, and anyone who doesn't think the Cotton Bowl and TX/OU won't be in Arlington circa 2008 is dreaming. It's a shame, but thems the facts.
^disagree
The city wasn't negotiating, it was the county. LM just seemed to have felt it was her duty to be involved, since it was in her city. JWP and MK were the real players involved.
As for the game, it probably goes home and home before Jerry World(opens in 2009). UT and OU's stadiums will probably both hold between 90-110,000 at that point in time. The presidents and ADs seems to want this to happen, so its up to the Cotton Bowl and Fair Park to keep the game. If it goes to Jerry World, there is no State Fair, West End or several thousand hotel rooms in Arlington to reap the benefit of the traveling crowds. So the actually game location is not that relevant anyway.
We need the Cotton Dome Foundation NOW. Even if they have no money at current, they need to announce their interest and presence to the public ASAP. Serve notice at least.
Not to be too pessimistic, but who's to say the state fair doesn't move out to Jerry World? The Rodeo in Houston isn't all that different from the state fair, minus the giant ferris wheel. Other than the ferris wheel and a few other things, what makes fair park so unique that it's the only location for the fair?
^ the number of museums, and the fact that the fair doesn't take place in a parking lot... what does arlington have to offer?
Apparently, you've never been there.
[ xvisionx.com 13 - my photo gallery + journal ] - be sure to check out my new interactive downtown dallas picture map.
I know that museums in the fair grounds are great. Does the demographic that attends the fair in large numbers go to the fair to look at the science museum? No, they go there for the Midway, the Auto Show, to see some farm/exotic animals, and for saltwater taffy/turkey legs. Everyone of those things could be located at some other venue. I'm not saying it will or should move, but it would be possible.
We go to the State Fair every year, and we go in to the Science Museum, and all of the other great museums, before we go to the Midway to get a Turkey Leg. The State Fair of Texas is a tradition, and if it moves it wouldn't be the same. It's not going anywhere.
Somethings ya just can't change.
It's this thing called "culture."
[ xvisionx.com 13 - my photo gallery + journal ] - be sure to check out my new interactive downtown dallas picture map.
Going to museums, and the various shows in old buildings is just part of the tradition. As is the location. DART rail will only enhance the strong location recognition. You'd have to actually build the museums, and replicate the mall, hall of state, etc. I'd hope they do this on the Trinity if they were to ever relocate.
Did anyone attend this speech entitled "Cotton Bowl: Doomed? Domed? Dumbfounded?" given by Darell Jordan on December 09, 2004 dicussing the future of the Cotton Bowl? It would be interesting to know what he said.
http://www.dallastexasexes.org/event...sp?EventID=227
dream
Pro Player/Dolphins Stadium project
MIAMI (AP) -- The Miami Dolphins have a new coach and a new name
for their stadium, and owner Wayne Huizenga wants to keep the
changes coming.
Reviving and revising a concept that dates back more than a
decade, Huizenga unveiled plans Monday to expand Dolphins Stadium --
its new name -- into a full-scale entertainment complex designed to
lure major events.
The former Pro Player Stadium will be remodeled and expanded to
add convention facilities, and upgrades may include a roof,
Huizenga said. He said his family will pay for the costs, which
could exceed $400 million, and no public money will be used.
"Part of it is ego. Part of it is wanting the Dolphins to have
the best, to be the leaders," Huizenga said. "I'm not hiding the
fact that's part of it. That doesn't bother me at all. Everybody
has an ego. I think it's great that we can do this for the Dolphins
and have a winning team playing in a winning atmosphere."
The name change takes place nearly five years after Huizenga
unsuccessfully began seeking a new naming-rights sponsor for the
ballpark. Pro Player signed a 10-year, $20 million deal with the
Dolphins in 1996, but the sports apparel company was bought out
five years ago.
A new management company -- Dolphins Enterprises LLC -- is being
created to run the stadium and the Dolphins. A chief executive
officer for that company will be named shortly, Huizenga said.
The CEO will report directly to Huizenga, as will Nick Saban,
who became coach last week.
"We have a vision to achieve these goals," Huizenga said.
"The first step was hiring Nick Saban to be the head coach."
In the early 1990s, Huizenga envisioned a 2,300-acre
entertainment complex called Blockbuster Park, named for the video
rental giant he once owned. He eventually sold the company to
Viacom for $8.5 billion, which opted not to go through with the
plans for what was dubbed "Wayne's World."
"I would have built that if I was still the CEO and still owned
the company," Huizenga said. "But we sold the company for the
benefit of our shareholders."
Huizenga's new master plan for the Dolphins complex includes a
village-type setting with a hotel, restaurants and entertainment
areas.
A three-phase renovation is planned to transform 17-year-old
Dolphins Stadium "into a year-round destination and a venue that
is ready-made for the Super Bowl, Orange Bowl and other major
national and international events," Huizenga said.
The first phase of the makeover may include new scoreboards,
remodeled suites, new exhibition space, additional parking and a
new traffic flow around the ballpark, at an estimated cost of $100
million to $125 million.
Other remodeling plans would not begin until the Florida Marlins
leave the stadium. Their lease expires in 2010, and they've been
told it will not be renewed. The Marlins hope to be playing in a
new ballpark near downtown by 2008.
The second phase of the project might include a permanent or
retractable roof -- something the Marlins have long sought. The
third phase, which likely couldn't begin until 2009 at the
earliest, would add hotel space and entertainment venues.
"It wasn't long ago, actually 17 years ago, when it was the
best stadium around," Huizenga said. "Needless to say, 17 years
have passed. It is still a great stadium. There's nothing wrong
with the stadium here, but I think we can take it to the next level
... and make it a true world-class facility."
Dallas site for Notre Dame game?
01:47 PM CST on Wednesday, February 16, 2005
By KEITH WHITMIRE / The Dallas Morning News
Notre Dame could play a neutral-site game in the Dallas area as soon as 2009 if a proposed 12th regular-season football game is approved by the NCAA. Notre Dame is looking to play in different regions without committing to home-and-home series, senior associate athletic director John Heisler said. In addition to Dallas, cities being considered include Chicago; Orlando, Fla.; Jacksonville, Fla.; and New Orleans.
Heisler said Notre Dame is looking to partner with sites with existing bowls, such as the SBC Cotton Bowl. He said it was too soon to discuss potential opponents or whether the game would be played at the Cotton Bowl or at the Cowboys' new stadium in Arlington. SBC Cotton Bowl president Rick Baker said he hasn't been contacted by Notre Dame officials but would welcome a chance to listen to ideas. Cowboys vice president Stephen Jones said the same thing. The 12th-game proposal, sponsored by the Big 12, is set to come up for approval in April.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Football game might be moved to Cotton Bowl
12:07 AM CST on Wednesday, February 16, 2005
Oklahoma State has been approached by a promoter about moving its football game with Florida Atlantic, scheduled for Sept. 10 at Dolphins Stadium in Miami, to the Cotton Bowl. OSU senior associate athletic director Dave Martin said the ball is in Florida Atlantic's court because it is its home game. Florida Atlantic athletic director Craig Angelos did not return a phone message left Tuesday afternoon.
Keith Whitmire
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Whew! Get a couple of these lined up and the city can afford to spend the money needed to get the Cotton Bowl up to snuff. Negotiations to rennovate the Cotton Bowl could lead the college football industry and the city of Dallas into the next level of revenue management.
Fingers crosses for a Notre Dame game in Dallas. That would be huge!
That Florida Atlantic-Oklahoma State game oughtta be a huge draw.
Dallas uber alles
SC-Notre Dame
I'm thinking ND wants to schedule someone like A&M or UT if they're looking into the Cotton Bowl. I have serious doubts they expect a large draw for a game against TCU or SMU.
Celebrating the urban greatness of Texas: Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Austin, El Paso and Fort Worth.
The Cotton Bowl has also approached A&M and Tech for an anuual matchup. I doubt they would give up the home-and-home rotation, though. It's a big ticket seller in Lubbock.
Its about ticket sales.
The only reason OU & UT are still playing there is because they have many decades of history to uphold. Otherwise its a financial loss for both teams.
Most big time college stadiums are designed these days to generate maximum revenue. Under Title IX, NCAA schools have to give as many athletic scholarships to women as men. Unfortunately, most of the women's sports (gymnastics, golf, soccer, track, etc) do not even come close to breaking even when it comes to ticket sales vs. operating costs. Football is the biggest athletic department money maker at every school.
My alma mater, the University of Arkansas, recently renovated its stadium capacity to seat 72,000 fans. This upgrade also included over 100 (yes, over 100) luxury suites that are sold at a premium each season. The entire project was designed around revenue generation because the football progam not only has to support itself, but it has to pay the bills for every other NCAA sport the school partakes in, save maybe men's & women's basketball.
When Mayor Laura made the big time claim that she wanted to see the Cotton Bowl become the premier college football venue in the country, I laughed out loud because it was so obvious that she had absolutely NO idea what she was talking about. In her mind, schools will be beating down the City of Dallas's door to play football at the Cotton Bowl because its a "neat" idea...
To quote P-Diddy....Its all about the Benjamins, Laura.
EDIT:
I found some information on the past season's attendance averages for some schools whose names have been passed around. The Cotton Bowl's capacity is figured into the mix:
Oklahoma - 84,532
Texas - 83,094
Arkansas (w/out Little Rock games) 70,344
Cotton Bowl Capacity - 68,252
Texas Tech - 52,823
Okie State - 46,805
Florida A&M - 25,609
(I put FLA A&M because it was the highest D1-AA school for attendance last year. Fla International falls somewhere below that).
Bear in mind, several of those seats in the top schools stadiums are luxury suites, some which cost in the $150-200 range. The schools keep the concessions, sell advertising on scoreboards, hawk merchandise in their in-stadium pro-shops.
You can easily see how, without MAJOR expansion the CB just isn't a profitable venue for some schools. Others with less exposure may benefit from playing there, but they do after factoring in the above lost revenues and adding travel costs for the team, band, spirit squads, etc.
My point is, a worthwhile rennovation would cost hundreds of millions to upgrade this stadium to a point where it would be oft used. And if we're going to do that with football in mind, didn't we have a proposal floated a few months back from a certain plastic surgery prone businessman???
Last edited by Razorback; 16 February 2005 at 06:03 PM.
^ Ouch!!! The truth hurts, everytime I hear it.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
USC-ND would be great for Dallas. Pretty good distance from both. Lots of alumni descending upon Dallas. Those are the kinds of matchups I'd like to see.
You make a lot of good points, Razorback, but football is not the only thing a properly done venue can attract on a yearly basis.
If the strong mayor proposal passes in May , Mayor Miller should create a seperate city department just as San Antonio did for the Alamodome to specifically deal with the Cotton Bowl. The Cotton Bowl and Fair Park are resources which we have neglected for far too long and it is about time we invest in them.The Alamodome was completed in May of 1993 at a cost of $186 million dollars. Through the support of local citizens, it opened debt-free and is owned and operated by the City of San Antonio. As one of 38 City Departments the Alamodome has several resources to draw on to successfully produce events.
http://www.sanantonio.gov/dome/?res=1024&ver=true
Another example for a strong mayor!
The Red River Shootout will not move to home and home, it will move to Arlington. The lure of getting to play one game a year in a brand new NFL stadium complete with state of the art luxury boxes as well as the host for at least 3 Super Bowls is too great. This will be a big boost to recruiting for both schools.
^ I really hate to hear that, though I understand the reasons.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
That will be a sad day in college football... TX/OU gives up the State Fair to play in the land of chain restaurants.
Hopefully, everyone on the city council and the mayor (strong or weak) will respond to the $$$$ brought to the city by a very profitable $300,000,000 stadium investment. If the new/improved Cotton Bowl generates a similar revenue flow as the Alamo Dome, the Fair Park stadium would pay for itself in less than a decade.
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