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Thread: The Cotton Bowl Renovation --> Cotton Dome

  1. #551
    Lakewooder Lakewooder's Avatar
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    Stephen Jones should be tarred and feathered and deposited in an abandoned strip mall in Arlington if his purpose on the committee is to steal the game...

  2. #552
    Skyscraper Member ksig121's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakewooder
    Stephen Jones should be tarred and feathered and deposited in an abandoned strip mall in Arlington if his purpose on the committee is to steal the game...
    I second that!! :guns:

  3. #553
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    I think his purpose was to get the Cowboys/Cotton Bowl/Texas-OU/Superbowl/Fair Park all together. He was always in the negotiations and seemed to be all for the Cowboys at Fair Park.

    As much as I'm glad Dallas County isn't footing over $400 million for a stadium, I think all involved should kick themselves for not coming to some kind of deal. The more I think about it, the more I think this was one of those homerun type of deals that would have been a super successful venue compared to other NFL stadiums. Much more used compared to how it will be used in Arlington. Definitely a 180 on this whole situation for me. The Cotton Bowl still has the potential to be that venue minus 8 games per years, but I don't see Dallas doing what is necessary to make that happen.

  4. #554
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    Anybody catch the blip on Fox 4 news last night. I can not find it on their website. But from what I could gather a bond will be put to voters to expand the stadium to 90,000 with a renovation of up to 50 mil.

  5. #555
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    50 million seems way low for what needs to be done *
    Dallas uber alles

  6. #556
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    I agree--I hate that we keep putting band-aids on the Cotton Bowl.

  7. #557
    Administrator gc's Avatar
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    ^ Maybe so fellas.

    However, expanding it to 90k, putting in bench seating, adding some luxury boxes, and adding more restrooms....gives us one helluva of an improvement.
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

  8. #558
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    ^ Agreed

  9. #559
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member BigD5349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc
    ^ Maybe so fellas.

    However, expanding it to 90k, putting in bench seating, adding some luxury boxes, and adding more restrooms....gives us one helluva of an improvement.
    I firmly believe this has to be done for Fair Park to have any chance going forward to host larger events. It's more than TX/OU.

    I wish the Cowboys Stadium were there, and I'm STILL pissed about how the whole situation developed, but here we are, and I will vote for whatever investment is put into a bond.

  10. #560
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    rantanamo has stated that the Cotton Bowl will never be a BCS bowl as long as the stadium is undomed. Shouldn't this be a priority for any renovations?
    Dallas uber alles

  11. #561
    Administrator gc's Avatar
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    ^ Maybe so, but The Rose Bowl is not domed and likely never will get domed.
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

  12. #562
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    Their weather is a lot nicer on New Years Day than it is in Dallas.
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  13. #563
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbus Civil
    rantanamo has stated that the Cotton Bowl will never be a BCS bowl as long as the stadium is undomed. Shouldn't this be a priority for any renovations?
    A retractible roof should be the number one priority. Negotiating the fifth BCS bowl game is important and a safe bet with a confirmed committment from tax payers, but the extra football games are a secondary importance compared to the substantially greater economic gains from a climate controled environment seating more than 60,000 through out the year.

    On game days when the Fall or Winter weather is pleasant - and that is frequent in Dallas - the football games are played in the open air. I personally prefer the open air environment. Nevertheless, a controled environment gained by a retractible roof on the Cotton Bowl is a powerful advantage to secure the gigantic conventions and trade shows, much more potent than a hotel built into the Convention Center.

  14. #564
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    I saw the oddest thing late last week. Architects, planners, etc going into LM's office to advise her on the cost and need of what the Cotton Bowl needs. Weren't they saying the price of what's needed before then? Meaning that $50 million estimate was bull?

    And it was a guy on the BCS committee that stated publicly on 103.3 last fall that avg gameday temp for the Cotton Bowl game has simply been to cold to host a BCS game. He was saying it needs to be either indoors or have something retractable to even be considered for the 5th game. That says to me: A.) The obvious of dome the thing along with renovations and B) The committee is obviously looking at the Cotton Bowl as becoming the next BCS game. Guess Dallas will just let that one go to JerryWorld with no fight.

  15. #565
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Well if theres no dome, we can always count on a mesh canopy out of the 50 mil. Somebody should send this idea to Laura, or whoevers in control. Its a cheaper alternative and it solves the problem.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  16. #566
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    Will a canopy keep out the cold?
    Dallas uber alles

  17. #567
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbus Civil
    Will a canopy keep out the cold?
    Did Texas Stadium keep the cold out? Does Soilder Field keep the cold out? How about Fenway Park? And I'm sure Jerry World wont keep the cold out. That argument is a little ridiculous.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  18. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by texman
    Did Texas Stadium keep the cold out? Does Soilder Field keep the cold out? How about Fenway Park? And I'm sure Jerry World wont keep the cold out. That argument is a little ridiculous.
    Do any of those places host a BCS bowl in January? Dallas's January weather is one reason why the Cotton Bowl is not a BCS Bowl. Not sure what makes the argument ridiculous. I prefer (to watch on TV) football played in the elements and have a bias against full-dome teams, but I can see why if you're planning a National Championship game your sponsors would prefer it not be played in miserable weather.

    My guess is if it's a full canopy that it could be designed to keep the heat in.

  19. #569
    Administrator gc's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah, but it's an outdoor game darnit! I am a football purist. This dome crap kills me.
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

  20. #570
    Lakewooder Lakewooder's Avatar
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    I attended one of the coldest Cotton Bowls ever, SMU vs. Pitt (what was that 1 Jan. 83?). I remember being a bit cold but it didn't really bother me as I was warm with our win! The cold made it extra-memorable.

    People are such pansies these days!

  21. #571
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    I am a football purist like many of you, and wouldn't mind seeing cold or wet championship football. I do, on the other hand, understand why they want "perfect" weather. This maximizes attendance and sponsor and patron participation off the field. It also provides a game that is truly won on the field. No heat advantage, no cold advantage for say Ohio St vs Miami, no 18 fumbles because of the wet. Again, I like those things, but I understand the desired neutrality.

    As for the canopy holding in heat, I believe it would fully opened. It would certainly need to stay open in the summer. Escaping heat would stop rising. Falling cold air from outside would stop at the canopy. So, while it wouldn't be room temperature without a climate control system, you'd probably end up with a consistant temp inside that's definitely above the outside temp. Remember, most retractables don't truly close all the way and have plenty of gaps in their structure. I think it would be important that the canopy cover as much of the gaps as possible, while being as low as possible(flat or even have a slight dip in the middle. I think its at least something that should be explored as a cheaper alternative. It would also give the Cotton Bowl some instant distinction in the United States again.

  22. #572
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    Just for the record, I hate the antiseptic atmosphere of a domed stadium. I'm just looking out for the city's best interests. Domed stadiums seem to be the requirement for hosting big events.
    Dallas uber alles

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    Is there actually a plan to save this game?

    Mayor Miller seems so sure that this game is not going anywhere but the more press I read about it the more it sounds like there is no way it is staying. It will be a very sad day for Dallas if this game leaves.

  24. #574
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    ^ I think its the schools putting on the pressure. Plus try not to read to much into it. There is some truth behind what they are publishing, at the same time the media over exploits news stories all the time. They edit the stories to get the "shock" factor for its readers. If you believe what the media said about Deep Ellum, you'd think it was the worst part of Queens or the most dangerous projects of Chicago with drive-bys, gun shots, people being stabbed in the streets and abandoned buildings.

  25. #575
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member BigD5349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big D
    Mayor Miller seems so sure that this game is not going anywhere but the more press I read about it the more it sounds like there is no way it is staying. It will be a very sad day for Dallas if this game leaves.
    I don't know the answer, but I do know that I lack the confidence in Miller really driving the issue.

  26. #576
    Skyscraper Member ksig121's Avatar
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    The mesh canopy is just another band-aid. This is our opportunity to really invest in Fair Park, but like everything else in this town, we are being reactionary as opposed to looking at the big picture. Doming the Cotton Bowl (including a climate control system) and making improvements to Fair Park will pay for itself in a short manner of time. Just think of the number of conventions, additional sporting events and all of the revenue that their patrons bring into the city. I have a sinking feeling that Dallas is going to drop the ball on this the same way that we have on every other sports venue. Fair Park is part of the fabric of this city and it is treated like a cheap municipal park with no historic value whatsoever. Sorry for the mini-rant, but this issue just chaps my hide.

  27. #577
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    If you look at the German Stadium, most of that roof is a permant, Teflon structure. No different than what covers the "inflata-domes" these days. If that part of the structure is built now, then completing a dome later would be much cheaper later. I'm just trying to look at this from the point of "Cheap @$$" Dallas needing a fix and needing it now. I'm totally with you on a permanent roof or retactable dome, but Dallas needs to show its hand NOW for that BCS game. Especially now that Atlanta will host the Sugar Bowl for a year two. If we aren't careful, the Peach Bowl could sneak in as that 5th game, since they have the opportunity to show what Atlanta can bring to the table.

  28. #578
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member BigD5349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksig121
    The mesh canopy is just another band-aid. This is our opportunity to really invest in Fair Park, but like everything else in this town, we are being reactionary as opposed to looking at the big picture. Doming the Cotton Bowl (including a climate control system) and making improvements to Fair Park will pay for itself in a short manner of time. Just think of the number of conventions, additional sporting events and all of the revenue that their patrons bring into the city. I have a sinking feeling that Dallas is going to drop the ball on this the same way that we have on every other sports venue. Fair Park is part of the fabric of this city and it is treated like a cheap municipal park with no historic value whatsoever. Sorry for the mini-rant, but this issue just chaps my hide.

    I totally agree. Maybe everyone who reads your post should paste your message into an email and send it to Laura Miller.

  29. #579
    Skyscraper Animator riltis's Avatar
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    Does any body know of the architect that is working on this dome redesign? I have looked through the thread and haven't found a mention of it..
    Green Grass Studios
    www.greengrassstudios.com

  30. #580
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    There is no dome redesign right now, just wishful thinking.
    Dallas uber alles

  31. #581
    Lakewooder Lakewooder's Avatar
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    Perhaps Mr. Calatrava can craft something clever...

  32. #582
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakewooder
    Perhaps Mr. Calatrava can craft something clever...
    Some nice Art Deco Calatrava calvalcade to match the Trinity River Bridges?

    Or put Jorge Soto on the case and free him from the binds of structured 'firm.'

  33. #583
    High-Rise Member antoinekhuu's Avatar
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    I think there is nothing wrong with the canopy ideas.
    The canopy is unique,architecturally aethetics and very cheap.

  34. #584
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    Will the Cotton Bowl Survive?

    PRESS CLUB EVENTS


    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=490 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=17></TD><TD vAlign=top width=473>The First Friday Series: In the Know - Will the Cotton Bowl Survive? 10/7/2005 - 10/7/2005

    Press Club Brown-Bag. Haynes & Boone, 901 Main Street, 29th floor, Dallas. 10/07/05, 12:30 p.m. NOTE THE LATER START TIME. Panelists will discuss the past, present and future of Dallas's sports landmark the day before the annual Texas-Oklahoma footb

    Our guests -- Dallas Mayor Laura Miller; Darrell Jordan, managing partner of Godwin Gruber and former president of the Cotton Bowl Dome Foundation; and Dallas Morning News sports columnist Kevin Sherrington.

    The Press Club of Dallas is proud to present In the Know: The First Friday Series. Our programs are held at 11:45 a.m. on the First Friday of each month.

    This monthly lunch event – which is free to members of the Press Club of Dallas – includes newsmaker and professional development discussions, as well as roundtables and debates. Watch the Press Club calendar for information about upcoming programs.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


    http://www.pressclubdallas.com/event...asp?EventID=45

  35. #585
    LH Copycat Columbus Civil's Avatar
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    At least all of those parties seem to be talking.
    Dallas uber alles

  36. #586
    Administrator gc's Avatar
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    Cotton Bowl update on fast track
    Dallas: Proposed upgrades may not be enough for UT, OU
    11:53 PM CDT on Friday, October 7, 2005
    By COLLEEN McCAIN NELSON / The Dallas Morning News
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....220afe2c.html

    The city could start adding seats to the Cotton Bowl as soon as next year in an effort to prevent Texas and Oklahoma from taking their football game and going home, Dallas Mayor Laura Miller said Friday. Plans to remodel the stadium in Fair Park are on the fast track, the mayor said. And before the Red River Rivalry kicks off next year, the city could pass a bond package to finance repairs and begin expanding the capacity of the aging Cotton Bowl.

    "All this will happen quickly," Ms. Miller said during a panel discussion. "We don't have time for it not to." As Longhorn and Sooner fans streamed into the city Friday, the mayor underscored her commitment to keeping the annual autumn rite in Dallas, saying she's "absurdly optimistic" that a yet-to-be-unveiled plan will persuade the schools to stay put. But Texas and Oklahoma officials have sounded warnings recently, suggesting that perhaps there's no place like home for this gridiron grudge match.

    In Austin and Norman, Okla., the stadiums are bigger, the amenities are more modern, and the money flows directly to the schools. Ms. Miller said she is working with State Fair of Texas officials and stadium consultants to put together a two-phase plan to update the art deco stadium and increase its capacity. She said details and dollar amounts would be revealed soon, but she added that the price tag probably would not top $50 million. Darrell Jordan, who has led past efforts to refurbish the Cotton Bowl and put a dome over it, said during Friday's discussion that the city could not afford to lose what he deemed the best sports event in the state.

    "We need to be on top of this," he said. "This is a huge issue for the city." City and fair officials have voiced strong support for upgrading the stadium. But financing for the project and other key details remain unresolved. Ms. Miller said that a bond package could be used to pay for at least part of the repairs but that the city probably would explore selling naming rights and using other private financing options as well. The mayor said that she is so confident voters would be willing to chip in that she would advocate putting a bond proposal on the ballot next year.

    "To me, it's not even a close call that whatever we put on the ballot would pass," she said. But that doesn't mean the city is willing to write a blank check. Ms. Miller deflected suggestions that the project could cost $60 million or more, adding that "$60 million is a little high for me." Ms. Miller said she hopes the city's efforts would compel Texas and Oklahoma to make a 10-year commitment to Dallas. Rumors suggesting that the game would move to the UT and OU campuses have surfaced repeatedly during recent years. Each time, the city has offered financial perks and minor modifications to the Cotton Bowl, and the schools have agreed to short-term contracts.

    Texas and Oklahoma are committed to play in Dallas through at least 2007. So far, the schools' athletic directors have shown little interest in long-term contracts. They generally have been unwilling to say much about the future of the Cotton Bowl, adding that it's not up to them to decide what Dallas does with its stadium. OU athletic director Joe Castiglione declined to comment Friday on the future of the game.

    But privately, Oklahoma officials have said the school won't commit to a long-term contract based only on assurances that the Cotton Bowl will be upgraded. They have expressed frustration with the city of Dallas, saying they want results – not more rhetoric. UT athletic director DeLoss Dodds said Friday that the schools aren't going to tell Dallas what to do with the Cotton Bowl and that they'll wait to make a decision until the city decides what to do with it. "I think we're going to talk in November, and we'll discuss things then," he said. Mr. Jordan said the city should not push for a 10-year commitment but should make needed repairs and encourage the schools' fans to show their support for keeping the game in Dallas.

    "Those two schools are both going to listen to what their fans want," he said. OU President David Boren has suggested that it might be too late for the city to save the game. "We have given Dallas every opportunity, and I think Dallas has really missed the boat," he recently told the Norman Transcript. Kevin Sherrington, a sports columnist for The Dallas Morning News , said during the panel discussion that both schools want to move the game home. Complaints about the Cotton Bowl are a convenient excuse, but potential profit would be the driving force in this decision, he said.

    "That's what they're all about," Mr. Sherrington said. Still, Mr. Jordan and Ms. Miller said they remain convinced that Dallas could retain the Texas-OU game and attract other high-profile college football games if the Cotton Bowl is upgraded. Despite the mayor's effusive praise for the game and the "magical element" in the Cotton Bowl, her chief of staff said Friday that Ms. Miller would not be at today's game. Ms. Miller plans to deliver gifts to the wives of officials from both schools before the game, but her husband and her son will be sitting in her seats, Frank Librio said.

    Ms. Miller, a graduate of the University of Wisconsin at Madison, joked Friday about her lack of football knowledge. She added, though, "I know enough about football to know that the Texas-OU game is not leaving Dallas and can't leave Dallas."

    The recent history:

    In 2003, the schools and the city of Dallas announced a new contract after Dallas officials agreed to defray the universities' travel costs and stadium rental fees. The State Fair of Texas also promised to explore options for adding seats and suites at the Cotton Bowl. In 2004, the schools announced that the games would continue in Dallas after the city promised assorted financial incentives and agreed to add seats in the end zone and improve the Cotton Bowl's bathrooms. In August, officials from both schools raised concerns about the Cotton Bowl's condition, suggesting that they weren't likely to stick around if Dallas didn't make significant improvements.

    What's next:

    Dallas Mayor Laura Miller said she has been working with State Fair officials and consultants to develop a two-phase plan that would expand the Cotton Bowl's capacity and upgrade the 75-year-old stadium. She said she plans to present the plan to school officials and will seek a new, long-term contract during the next two to three months. A bond proposal to finance the project could go to Dallas voters next year.

    Staff writers Brian Davis and Chip Brown contributed to this report.
    E-mail cmccain@dallasnews.com
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

  37. #587
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Hopefully, Notre Dame, BCS planners, A&M, Tech, and others who could benefit from the potent event specticle possible with a game at Fair Park will be fully informed about the two-phase plan.

    If the Cotton Bowl rennovations can pick up one more big game - Notre Dame - and get on track for a BCS upgrade, then the mayor and tax payers can justify spending more than $50,000,000. Yes, let's have a two phase rennovation project - phase one gets the seating capacity over 100,000, upgrades the facility amenities and prepares the structure for phase two construction: a retractible roof and climate control.

    One more big football game, one significantly upgraded Cotton Bowl Classic, and a Springtime convention inside the Cotton Dome - it's time to wheel and deal.

    This plan is a step in the right direction, but falls way short of the city's advertised slogan. Live large, think big - think globally act locally - Revisiting the precipitious event - something like that; does the mayor remember 'My Dallas?' The Cotton Bowl need to be cool in August and dry in May.

  38. #588
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    $50 million is not enough to keep the games I'm afraid. Therefore, this trivial upgrade is really a waste of money. Spend it all and in the right places or leave it alone. I think its time for LM to visit each school and see what she is up against. She's really up against it and really doesn't know it.

  39. #589
    High-Rise Member dallastophoenix's Avatar
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    i find $50 million very short-sighted.

  40. #590
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member BigD5349's Avatar
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    ^It's worse folks. I saw an interview with Miller yesterday, and she's saying the investment is "in the range of $30-$50M, she's hedging the numbers even lower again.

    All the sports bars and restaurants along McKinney were packed during the game today. Deep Ellum and West End are hoping again tonight. Also tonight, the Stars are playing, drawing in more people. This is the way it ought to be.

    Miller's going to try to get a 10 year commitment from the schools for an under-funded plan. She's proven that she can't negotiate, so I remain very nervous about this. While it would be great to get a commitment, I wouldn't do it if I were UT or OU. It is incumbent upon Dallas to provide a facility that attracts a series of college football games during the Fair, not the other way around. I just feel like she's going in with a weak position, and a take it or leave it attitude she's famous for.

  41. #591
    High-Rise Member antoinekhuu's Avatar
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    During the news yesterday, they showed two designs to dome the Cotton bowl:
    One with similar roof like the AAC
    One with canopy,look really nice.
    I thnk 30 mil would be enough to replace the seats,clean up the existing structures and put the canopy on.

  42. #592
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    considering the condition the CB is in, it would probably take at least $100 million to get that place up to snuff.

  43. #593
    Mega-Tall Skyscraper Member BigD5349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo
    considering the condition the CB is in, it would probably take at least $100 million to get that place up to snuff.
    Yeah, it's not just a matter of replacing seats and sprucing up. The Cotton Bowl has to be competitive vs. other stadiums. If we want to draw another 1 or 2 big games, it's got to bring major college programs out of their home stadiums. That's going to take something very special. We have the foundation with the State Fair, but the stadium's got to come along for the ride.

    This is going to take a visionary plan, with money behind it -- not only a great facility, but also annual incentives to bring in more games. That's what I want to see, I'd vote for it.
    Last edited by BigD5349; 08 October 2005 at 09:40 PM.

  44. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo
    considering the condition the CB is in, it would probably take at least $100 million to get that place up to snuff.
    I think your estimate is much more realistic. My alma mater spent around $100 million four years ago expanding capacity from 55k to 72k and adding ammenities without a roof.

    It was much more modern than the Cotton Bowl is today before the renovations.

  45. #595
    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    ^Arkansas did a great job. I like it more than any stadium in the Big XII currently. LM needs to visit Fayetteville, Norman, Austin, Lubbock, South Bend and even College Station to see what's out there and how much work truly needs to be done.

  46. #596
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rantanamo
    LM needs to visit Fayetteville, Norman, Austin, Lubbock, South Bend and even College Station to see what's out there and how much work truly needs to be done.
    Yea really, first things first. The Cotton Bowl must deliver a better experience than any university stadium.

  47. #597
    High-Rise Member AndyIvey's Avatar
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    I do not see why we should spend tax dollars on a remodel without both a commitment from these two schools as well as others. I would like to see a major game every weekend during the fair. This could include Tech-A&M and SMU-TCU. The Cotton Bowl should be the center of football in Texas during the month of October.

  48. #598
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyIvey
    I would like to see a major game every weekend during the fair.
    word

  49. #599
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    I've heard from several sources that Bill Little, UT's former sports information director and currently an administrator in the UT althletic department, was on an Austin sports talk show this morning and basically said that the Cotton Bowl has had a good run with the Texas/OU game but it's time to bring the game back to home and home. Bill Little had been a huge supporter and proponent of keeping the game in Dallas. He loved the tradition and pageantry. For him to suddenly change his position seems to indicate that a decision has been made by the UT athletic department to move the game from the Cotton Bowl.

    I think the UT and OU athletic directors are going to make unrealistic demands of Dallas and Laura Miller to repair the Cotton Bowl, that Miller will balk, and the schools will then have an excuse to move the game to home and home while blaming Dallas and Laura Miller.
    "You look at Chicago, New York, San Francisco, you'll find lots of small businesses. But here in Dallas, they hold up big businesses and kick out small businesses, and that's not good."

  50. #600
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    ^That will be a sad day for college football.

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