TRP: The Trinity River Spans

[msutton]

But he's also the mayor that pushed hard to get the AAC passed- and I think if he was still mayor we might be talking about the Cowboys in Dallas instead of Arlington.

and we could be talking about losing what few conventions we still get to places without the added taxes money monger jones wanted to use to suck us dry...

[drumguy8800]

Woohoo! I got the TRP Issue of D. I'm looking through it, and here are some things that stood out:

Cedars West - (p.42-43) - Maybe just west of the intersection of the Corinth Street Viaduct and Industrial Blvd? It's roughly a circle, with mixed use development SURROUNDED BY A WATERFRONT.. with a treelined blvd running N-S, and Corinth(?) running E-W. The tallest residential towers are placed on the NW corner of the island (the two roads bisect it), for views of the river. I assume this will be Dallas' first island?

Coming very soon - Oak Cliff Riverfront Development. - (p.43) - (Speaking about developer Ron Howell): "this spring (2005), his Practi-Source Development company expects to complete river-front land acquisition of the area near the foot of the I-30 bridge on the Oak Cliff side. They'll break ground in the fall and finish construction on several buildings, built to replicate the historic Oak Cliff styles, in fall 2006. His Phase I plans about 10 restaurants, more than 220,000 square feet of retail and about 186,000 square feet of office space and 308 lofts. The project cost is approximately $141 million. "The political climate to develop Oak Cliff is right," Howell says. "The public attitude is right. And the investment and lender community is uncharacteristically eager like never before."

Woodall Rogers Extension Bridge - Earlier articles had suggested the work would start this year (2005) and D reports that construction will finish in 2008. It will connect with Singleton.

The Two Lakes - I found two interesting things.. One, the lakes will be filled with "treated effluent." While that sounds gross, it apparantely is actually cleaner than the rest of the Trinity, and is safe for recreational purposes.. the water is supposedly crystal clear. Also, the two lakes will have waterfalls connecting them, and the larger lake, "Urban Lake," will be right next to Reunion Arena with tons of landscaping and a promenade connecting the lake w/ downtown.

The Tollway - Well, here's what sold me. Can you imagine the traffic hell that would exist if there was no other reliever route whenever I-35E and I-30 were being reconstructed? That's one of roles this tollway will play - a very much needed detour around construction, and when construction (on Proj. Pegasus) is finished, a much needed reliever for I-35E and I-30, which will likely fill capacity within two and a half weeks of completion.

Houston - a lovely picture of houston is on the topright on pg.82. Apparantly, advertisers got confused.

[texman]

Woodall Rogers Extension Bridge - Earlier articles had suggested the work would start this year (2005) and D reports that construction will finish in 2008. It will connect with Singleton.

This bridge is going to look really funny if finished before everything else. I hope the river park will be under contrcution by then. I have the magazine but I don't feel like looking it up.

[rantanamo]

anxiously awaiting some scans

[texman]

Too much to scan!!!! Just buy one, you'll be much more satisfied with the magazine than 2 or 3 scans covering 1 % of the info.

[rantanamo]

I have no place to send it even if I order it. Don't live there. Don't really live anywhere. I'm on the road.

[texman]

I have no place to send it even if I order it. Don't live there. Don't really live anywhere. I'm on the road.

What do you do? Just curious.

[rantanamo]

contractor

[dallastophoenix]

can u have it sent to whatever hotel u know you'll be at on a later date?

[rantanamo]

I guess I'll try. I've just been all over the past few months. Rarely in the same place for more than a week. If I get my hands on it, I'll scan some myself.

[drumguy8800]

If these need to be deleted for legal issues, feel free. They're pictures, not scans, but most definetly legible. If there is a page that is blurry, please let me now. I did not take pictures of (some of the) irrelevant ads.

I'm sorry modem users, but the images are each ~300kb, and they are compressed all the way. For legibility, a large image size is kind of necessary.

If anyone wants a clearer image of one of them, feel free to ask and I will host it. These compressed images aren't exactly pleasant.

There will be second post.

[drumguy8800]

The rest..

the last image shown here is the 33rd scan.. it really belongs at the beggining of the attatchments list.

[crescentboi]

Awesome! Thanks for posting drummy. It looks like some of the pics of Dallas are National Geographic worthy imo.

[tamtagon]

Ya, thanks for posting those.

[RobertB]

Not that anyone will miss it, I guess... but the note "S.M. Wright Freeway converted to neighborhood-friendly boulevard" implies the demolition of the final vestige of the Central Expressway project and its 1940s-era design specifications. The portion south of downtown was the first section designed, the last section built, currently the only section left, and apparently the last section to be eliminated.

I hope that some way is found to commemorate Dallas' first big step into the controlled-access future. Looking back, Central Expressway was both visionary and fatally flawed. That history should be preserved somehow.

In the end, though, turning South Central Expressway into an at-grade boulevard will be a great improvement for the neighborhood, especially if the city is able to turn it into a mixed residential/retail center (and that doesn't mean plopping down a Wal-Mart and going away).

[freewaytincan]

Oh my goodness! I didn't really need to bother buying it!

[drumguy8800]

Not that anyone will miss it, I guess... but the note "S.M. Wright Freeway converted to neighborhood-friendly boulevard" implies the demolition of the final vestige of the Central Expressway project and its 1940s-era design specifications. The portion south of downtown was the first section designed, the last section built, currently the only section left, and apparently the last section to be eliminated.

I hope that some way is found to commemorate Dallas' first big step into the controlled-access future. Looking back, Central Expressway was both visionary and fatally flawed. That history should be preserved somehow.

In the end, though, turning South Central Expressway into an at-grade boulevard will be a great improvement for the neighborhood, especially if the city is able to turn it into a mixed residential/retail center (and that doesn't mean plopping down a Wal-Mart and going away).

Where'd you see this? I always thought it was odd whenever I took Central from Main Street and it went up the ramp into Central Expressway. It is pretty outdated ..

[rantanamo]

Thanks guys. I ordered a copy, but probably won't get to see it for a few months. Thanks a bunch, drummy. Really appreciate it.

[TexasStar]

Anyone know the status of funding for the remaining Signature bridges over the Trinity? Thought we were facing a hard deadline from TxDot for I-30 at least.

[slfunk]

The first one is completely funded, can not remember which one that is. The second is partially funded, and the third is not funded at all. The transportation bill in DC is being tied up. President Bush will not sign a bill larger then 256 billion I believe. Right now the senate and congress have put before him a bill of 275 billion, but their wish list included up to 325 billion or something. I can not remember the exact figures at this time. Its actually outline in the D Magazine special edition. If Bush does not sign the 275 billion bill or senate does not come down, then their will be possibly another year or so delays for that funding. According to the D magazine, they have quoted one of the councel memebers as saying, if this bill stalls, we know the funding is out there and will have to find alternative funding to keep this project growing. Not sure the complete tie up with TXDOT, with this project I am sure the County and City are able to make TXDOT stall for a bit. There was not much mentioned about TXDot's deadline if any in the special addition, mostly about funding being tied up with the President right now.

[freewaytincan]

Woodall Rogers is totally funded, I-30 is held up in the bill, and I-35, well, I haven't heard anything about those. I hear that this transportation bill has all kinds of things in it that are just plain ridiculous, though I haven't paid enough attention to know what they are.

[tamtagon]

President Bush will not sign a bill larger then 256 billion I believe.

unrelated political pondering: President GW Bush is the most likely since Pres. Ford to get trapped by his administrations double standard. Every administration actively operates detrimental hypocracy, but seems like GW Bush may lose control of the propoganda.

[texman]

I hope the bill passes for the whole 275 billion. Transporatation is going to be a huge issue in the next couple decades and needs all the money it can get.

[RobertB]

Woodall Rogers is totally funded, I-30 is held up in the bill, and I-35, well, I haven't heard anything about those. I hear that this transportation bill has all kinds of things in it that are just plain ridiculous, though I haven't paid enough attention to know what they are.

You're right, transportation bills are like a magnet for ridiculous things. I've heard that this one includes consideration of a 30-story bridge over a wide, shallow drainage ditch. Can you even imagine that they'd actually approve such a thing?

(Sorry, it's the end of a long day, and I haven't had enough caffeine...)

[freewaytincan]

unrelated political pondering: President GW Bush is the most likely since Pres. Ford to get trapped by his administrations double standard. Every administration actively operates detrimental hypocracy, but seems like GW Bush may lose control of the propoganda.

Well I have to say now that I am very bothered by the fact that since the Republicans took congress, spending has actually increased, but now the President finally says, "Enough spending." What makes this different?

You're right, transportation bills are like a magnet for ridiculous things. I've heard that this one includes consideration of a 30-story bridge over a wide, shallow drainage ditch. Can you even imagine that they'd actually approve such a thing?

Ooh, burned.

[vcross]

I have the fold out map (Page Image) from the D Magazine special issue about the Trinity Project posted on the wall of my cube at work (One Main Place). I've had 3 people come up and say "Oh, cool, a map of the Riverwalk!"

If you notice, it has a quote in the corner "Wait five years, You won't come to San Antonio anymore. You'll come to downtown Dallas." San Antonio catches their eye and they don't even see the Dallas part.

I haven't had anyone yet ask me about the map that had really any idea of the scope of the project or what was really going on.

[gc]

I have the fold out map (Page Image) from the D Magazine special issue about the Trinity Project posted on the wall of my cube at work (One Main Place). I've had 3 people come up and say "Oh, cool, a map of the Riverwalk!"

If you notice, it has a quote in the corner "Wait five years, You won't come to San Antonio anymore. You'll come to downtown Dallas." San Antonio catches their eye and they don't even see the Dallas part.

I haven't had anyone yet ask me about the map that had really any idea of the scope of the project or what was really going on.

That is a shame. I find out every day how little people know about what is going on in the world around them. But they sure can complain.

[jsoto3]

Recent article:

[St-T]

^I would have liked to not have the parkway but the project overall is wonderful. I keep imagining that the parkway will be like Lake Shore Drive in Chicago (in gold coast).

[jsoto3]

^I would have liked to not have the parkway but the project overall is wonderful. I keep imagining that the parkway will be like Lake Shore Drive in Chicago (in gold coast).

Except it won't be lined with trees and will have a big-ass levee between it and any adjacent development.

[crocodile_hunt_er]

Except it won't be lined with trees and will have a big-ass levee between it and any adjacent development.

But all the pictures show are couples holding hands walking along the edge of a lake with the downtown skyline but 300yards behind them....

Is all that just pretty pictures overshadowing what they are really going to build?

Wow, after reading that article and the jsoto3 post (both whom are architects) saying that its just a highway and levee project really makes me wonder.

I had my hopes up so high, I guess it is too good to be true, right?

[jsoto3]

I have yet to hear anyone official speak to the fact that the Corps of Engineers does not allow trees to be planted within the floodway.

[TexasStar]

^ A hard and fast rule or one that could be relaxed in this particular instance?

[jsoto3]

I figure that they'll have to come up with some system by which they will allow selective planting. You can't have a "central park" without trees. And after all of the pretty drawings the public has been shown, they will be outraged if they don't get what they thought paid for. My guess is that some serious measures will have to be taken to significantly increase the capacity of the floodway to offset the decrease in capacity posed by the added earth berming and newly planted trees.

ColumbusCivil, aren't you a civil engineer? Can you speak to this?

[Lakewooder]

Hey, there are trees there now -- how come the corps hasn't chopped them down...oh well the corps does nothing without a bribe.

[rantanamo]

Trees are essential to flood control I'd be surprised if that were true. I'd also like to point out though, that if they selectively mowed or simply put a few fences out there, you'd have lots of large trees in a short period of time.

[drumguy8800]

This is all becoming really bothersome.

If, hypothetically, the concrete behemoth was taken out of the project, would funding become a bigger issue?

Also, does anyone know where a copy of the original Trinity River 1999 Bond Proposal is? I'd like to see how skewed this project has come since day one.

[texman]

This is all becoming really bothersome.

If, hypothetically, the concrete behemoth was taken out of the project, would funding become a bigger issue?

Also, does anyone know where a copy of the original Trinity River 1999 Bond Proposal is? I'd like to see how skewed this project has come since day one.

I believe it was more so a highway project then than it is now. Thats according to Mayor Miller who said she didnt support it in the begining because it was a gigantic highway project. Should I give her credit for fixing the plan?

[rantanamo]

What's this I hear about the Trinity River trail thingie starting construction soon?

[Lakewooder]

With all the high-rise condos selling like hotcakes, it's not hard to imagine them sprouting all around the Trinity, once this is done. Perhaps like Lakeshore Dr. in Chicago (which also has a busy street separating the buildings from the park areas). Rooms with a view...

[texman]

With all the high-rise condos selling like hotcakes, it's not hard to imagine them sprouting all around the Trinity, once this is done. Perhaps like Lakeshore Dr. in Chicago (which also has a busy street separating the buildings from the park areas). Rooms with a view...

Hopefully the residentail market doesnt go bust by then.

[jsoto3]

While checking in on the Project Pegasus website I came across this page for the bridge. They now have a link to a preliminary schematic design. Have a look. Very interesting . . . .

[gc]

cool

[Lionel Hutz]

Re: Funding of the Bridges.

From Wick Allison on D Magazine's Frontburner blog:

IT'S THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS
Actually, that's not true. As any woman of the world can tell you, it's the gift that counts. Janet Kutner's rather disjointed news story this morning (pity the poor editors who, I'm sure, tried and tried) may have been a little difficult to follow, but the fact is the Hoffman/Rachofsky/Rose announcement takes the DMA to a new competitive level on the world museum scene. Following on the heels of the Atmos Energy property gift, which, company executives tell me, was entirely the work of Laura Miller, and foreshadowing announcements I'm told will soon come about the second and third Calatrava bridges, and you begin to sense that Dallas is starting to rock and roll.

Wick Allison · 09:32 AM

[rantanamo]

I think we all saw that rock and roll coming a while ago.

Now please, bid for the Olympics.

[rantanamo]

OK, I'm gonna say it. I'm excited about a lot of things going on in Dallas and the metroplex, but once I see that central arch go up on the Woodall Rodgers Bridge, a smile will be hard to keep from my face. Maybe they are only bridges, and deemed unecessary by many, but to me they mean a lot about the progress of the city. They aren't short either. The spans are pretty long and comparable to other bridges. The heights are pretty tall. When you drive down Turtle Creek Blvd, do you think the Mayfair is short? This friggin bridge will soar that high. OK, I'm too excited, but I simply smile when I look at the model. These bridges will be sweet, and to me will say Dallas is trying to go somewhere.

I know, that was corny.

[St-T]

Corny... but very true! The skyline will be changed forever.

[texman]

Someone described the bridges as "benevolent turtles watching over the city." I like that.

[Razorback]

OK, I'm gonna say it. I'm excited about a lot of things going on in Dallas and the metroplex, but once I see that central arch go up on the Woodall Rodgers Bridge, a smile will be hard to keep from my face. Maybe they are only bridges, and deemed unecessary by many, but to me they mean a lot about the progress of the city. They aren't short either. The spans are pretty long and comparable to other bridges. The heights are pretty tall. When you drive down Turtle Creek Blvd, do you think the Mayfair is short? This friggin bridge will soar that high. OK, I'm too excited, but I simply smile when I look at the model. These bridges will be sweet, and to me will say Dallas is trying to go somewhere.

I know, that was corny.

Someday, people will gaze at a summer sunset, or enjoy a Trinity Park fireworks display and find it hard to imagine what Dallas looked like WITHOUT the bridges.

[boozo]

Parkway Impact meeting on <b>March 29, 2005.</b>

I will be there to try to convince them to endorse the Industrial/Irving Blvd. option rather than putting the parkway inside the levees.

http://www.trinityrivercorridor.org/...tice032905.pdf