Reply With QuoteDamn, so really no different from the Pillar Group which owns so much of downtown.Originally Posted by clipper
That land was originally put together by the Carpenter family after they built the Southland Center complex - now the Sheraton.
They had big visions about mixed-use developments there, too.
Damn, so really no different from the Pillar Group which owns so much of downtown.
This might be a dumb question, but if they’re just investors then why would they pay all that money to have designs drawn up? It can’t be cheap to hire a firm and have them draw up designs like this. Seems like it would just be a waste of money!
Many investors may draw up plans to show the potential of the site and to help entice developers to strike up a deal. I dont know Spire's history to comment on their plans, but can tell you much can be done on the cheap 'so to speak' with the computer programs we use now in architecture. Cheap is a relative term yes, but architectural services for design proposals are not that big of a project's budget when you start looking at the construction costs. So some of these investors partner with design firms to paint a picture for the investor to attract developers. The amount of actuall projects that get built verses the proposals is not a large number. Investors and developers alike may look at many options, pay to go forward with CD's, and pull the plug before moving ahead with construction. Arlington Town Center is a great example, along with Icon's proposal at Galleria, and several projects Icon looked at in Las Collinas.
Look at all the drawings of "City Lights" plus the builder is known .. and yet, 5 years later NADA.. so drawings, fancy art work and even solid plans really don't mean much.
Related news
http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin...5/daily20.html
Dallas firm buys Austin' Chase Tower
Austin Business Journal
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....cf833266.htmlSpire Realty buys vacant Irving office building, plans redo
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
...Spire Realty Group LP bought the 202,879-square-foot 500 E. John Carpenter Freeway building in Irving...
...“We intend for this to be just one of many large office acquisitions over the next couple of years,” Spire Realty’s Caleb Smith said in a statement.
Spire Realty also recently purchased a large tract in downtown Dallas for future development...
Last edited by Mark Lea; 23 June 2010 at 01:06 PM.
Mixed-use project | Ross Avenue and Routh Street
Mixed-use project is planned for land near Dallas' Arts District
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.198ce58.html
The corner of Ross Avenue and Routh Street is the intersection of schlock and awe.
On the north side of the busy downtown Dallas crossroads, you have the inspiring architecture of the Arts District.
Across the street, there are blocks of scruffy parking lots and a few faded commercial buildings.
The investors who own almost 12 acres in a triangle roughly bounded by Ross, North Central Expressway and Leonard Street see the mostly vacant area as downtown's next development district.
At least that's what Spire Realty Group is hoping.
"We are going to try and be an extension of the Arts District and provide a new neighborhood," said Spire senior vice president Jon Ruff.
And with the local economy stirring back to life, the real estate firm has decided to start marketing a five-building mixed-use development on the property. The complex will be called the Spire.
"We started acquiring the land about 10 years ago and two years ago began initial planning of this project," Ruff said.
Spire Realty has completed designs for the first office, retail and residential tower in its development and hired Peloton Commercial Real Estate to find tenants.
"We want to attract people downtown who aren't traditional downtown tenants," Ruff said. "We think we have the right location to do that."
Spire also believes in its game plan – to start slowly with a first 21-story building at San Jacinto and Leonard Street and add to the project as demand grows.
"We plan on doing the whole development rather organically," said Spire president Caleb Smith. "We are taking our time with this.
"This is a private investment – all family money," he said. "We are not your typical developer."
Spire used a combination of cash and low-cost debt to buy the land, and the property generates enough income from parking to pay carrying costs until the development gets under way.
Started in Houston
Spire Realty first gained attention in Dallas in 1997 when it bought downtown's Bryan Tower.
After spending $70 million to upgrade the 1970s skyscraper, the investors raised the occupancy from about 21 percent to more than 85 percent, which is where it stands today.
Spire also owns three buildings in Dallas' Stemmons Freeway corridor and just bought a Las Colinas office tower.
The company got its start in Houston as the real estate arm of investor Smith Management Co. The company owns property in Houston and Austin.
Few people noticed as Spire slowly bought up land behind downtown Dallas' Plaza of the Americas over several years. A recent purchase from lenders – 2 acres at Ross and Routh – finally gave the company more than six blocks to play with.
It's one of the largest contiguous development sites downtown, said Joel Pustmueller, the Peloton Commercial Real Estate partner who's heading efforts to promote the project.
"It's hard to amass that much land downtown, and this property has everything going for it," Pustmueller said. "Our job is to get it out in front of everybody to take a look at."
Business tenants first
The timing is right to start working on another downtown office project, Pustmueller said.
"There are a bunch of leases that are going to start to roll over in the next few years," he said. "We want tenants to consider Spire's project when they are looking downtown."
WDG Architecture designed the master plan for Spire, which includes landscaped streets and a central park.
Spire Realty expects its improvements in the area to help create a more pedestrian-friendly link between the Pearl Street DART rail station and the Arts District.
"We want to capture the traffic walking through our neighborhood," Smith said. "We decided to take the approach of building what would really enhance the Arts District."
For Spire, that means a 360,000-square-foot building with some ground floor retail space and a row of residential units facing the planned park.
But first, the commercial property firm has to find business tenants.
"We aren't going to do this on a speculative basis," Smith said. "We look at this as a 10- to 15-year project.
"We are not in a rush."
sweet
I also like the fact that this is private money. Talk about game changers for DTD... This project will definitely be one.
merge threads?
http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...5&page=1&pp=50
More from DBJ:
http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas...9/daily11.html
Wow, talk about good news for DTD! They're starting the project with a 21- story office building.
Cool.
So this is another one of those projects that won't break ground until a major tenant signs up. No different than Two Arts Plaza then.
Correct! Nothing more than a PR ploy to get your project in the paper and hopefully get someone interested... But, as more companies start looking DT and as old leases start to expire it might be quicker than we think. But, are they talking about getting the building 50% pre-leased or 75% pre-leased??
Let's hope this is also a catalyst for Ross...
love to see some renderings
There aren't any others besides the ones at the beginning of the thread.
So I wonder if those old renderings are the designs they're going with. One positive about this future development is it has wonderful visability and very easy access (unfortunately, I mean by car). And I've always thought that northeastern part of downtown is the cleanest. Hopefully, this breaks ground sooner than later.
I work in Bryan Tower so I walked down to their marketing center and found this little guy
didnt appear as if they are really showing it off yet though
Last edited by Mark Lea; 21 July 2010 at 10:27 AM.
This will look amazing...it will also help kind of "balance" the skyline, so it just doesn't end at the Chase tower...I work in Bryan Tower so I walked down to their marketing center and found this little guy
didnt appear as if they are really showing it off yet though
Also, the approach view from the south on 45/Central will be awesome...
"...Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."
Looks like the first phase will only consist of the north tower, which to me is the most interesting of the group (it has that wavy facade, the first of its kind to our skyline). When you add this building and Museum Tower (and eventually Hall Arts), you will have the downtown buildings moving closer to Uptown and helping close the Uptown/Downtown gap. Pretty exciting stuff.
Based on the article I thought the middle building facing the park is first. They did say it would have retail and residential at the base. Plus I think the wavy building the tallest one is facing Ross and will have a Ross address for the prestige that now accompanies a Ross Avenue address.to start slowly with a first 21-story building at San Jacinto and Leonard Street
So how much of your time is spent looking out the window, and how much of it actually spent working?
Tighten the female dog!
You're right, I completely missed that. Well, at least it'll add retail to what's currently a no-man's land. And any new development that close to Pearl Station will hopefully put some pressure on the Crozier Tech building.
any small high rise over there to close off the chase tower drop of our skyline will be awesome. this is like the most open patch in DT Dallas and it is prime for some good development.
RAIN! To....much.....rain.....
These guys are very legit, very quiet, very patient and very well-capitalized... not at all your typical Dallas developer. This thing will definitely happen... the only question is when.
If Spire is legit, patient, private money is exactly what DTD needs. This could be great. Headington is another great example of this.
Is this the same Spire that has high rises in Denver, Austin and Houston?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spire+realty+properties
But to answer your question more directly, it appears they have some properties in Austin and Houston (but not Denver).
No, I don't think so. The Spire you're speaking of has similar looking buildings in Austin, Denver, Atlanta (to name a few), but looking at this Spire's site, I don't see any of that.
(Ignore berryhill...being a decent human being is just too much for some people)
It seems that rarely the "we won't build until we have a large tenant" approach works. I look at 17Seventeen which was built as spec- and they've managed to lease about 70,000sf rather quickly. I know it's a bit of a gamble, but it seems like it might be easier to lease a finished or under construction building.
This is seriously the crankiest forum on the internet.
+1 just go look at the MATA thread.
Anyway.... to make this post relevant to the discussion... Glad to see more development.
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction."
ok so here is my 2 Cents.... It seems like they are making some of the same mistakes as Victory...
So they are starting with the building closest to Perl station in an area with very little automobile traffic. I just don't see a ton of people walking to the Opra from the DART Station... And what retail is going to want to locate on a road with very little drive by auto traffic?
I am no expert but nothing builds on success like success... and i think the best place for success is close to the Arts District and on Ross Ave. Vicotry ignored the natural traffic on Houston Street trying to lour people onto thier private little street and it just did not work.
Seriously! I had been wanting to use that link ever since a friend did it to me after I asked a question I could have answered with a casual search. I thought it was hilarious and it certainly is a lot less rude than some of the comments other members have made in response to some new members' questions. But I guess making that light-hearted post - which did attempt to answer your question as well - means I'm nowhere close to being a "decent human being." Sadly, I couldn't detect any sarcasm from eburress, which just makes me sad. To learn that a sense of humor is a clear sign of a horrible person has just rocked my world.
But back to the topic...
Unlike others, I'm not so disappointed to hear that this development, like Harwood and Two/Three Arts Plazas, will take time to unfold. I know that many people are anxious to capitalize on the recent headlines Dallas has garnered with the opening of the AT&T PAC and Cowboys Stadium. But if all of these proposed developments were to come to fruition, say, in time for the Super Bowl, then people would see a shiny, brand new 21st-century ghost town, a la Victory Park. That would definitely attract attention, but not the kind we want.
On the other hand, one thing that we all know (and that practically every demographer predicts) is that Dallas is and will continue growing. So in my opinion, I think I'd rather see these master planned developments come to life gradually when the time is right and the surrounding area and market can absorb such projects. Sure, maybe this project will never happen but I'm sure that some people thought that Harwood's vision would never come to life. It appears that for Spire, it's not matter of if, but when, this will happen.
I agree. It seems if Spire wishes to play off the Arts District, it would be smarter to start with retail and residential on Ross and build from there.
My sister came up from Houston for the Lady GaGa concert (she and friend went, not me) and I took her out to Neo's in Victory for dinner. We dined on the"slice" side on Houston street, but after we ate, we walked through the other side and up Victory Blvd. My sister's response was "Wow this is really pretty! This should've been on the other side. It's so barren over there." I would hate for Spire to make the same mistake. If they plan on building slowly then it could take years for retail to catch on if it isn't planned well, especially if Spire ignores Ross and, like Victory, starts out facing the wrong direction.
Last edited by vman; 29 July 2010 at 09:54 AM.
I totally agree with that. Overbuilding in a short span of time will cripple downtown growth or at least slow it down. There is nothing wrong with demand outpacing supply every once in a while.
I might contend that the sarcasm in my post was as evident as the humor in yours.
I think the retail portion of it will have a heck of time getting started.
Once the Green Line is fully operational, Pearl might become the busiest station as people move from Red/Blue to Green. One step in that direction would be the ending of bogarting the Red/Blue lines from the North for Victory. No need exists to do it anymore and it's ripping off travel for people going south.
If Pearl becomes a station with a lot of on/off movement, retail could grow much like West End would if the stores were not on the back of the building.
Maybe it won't happen, but it was an opportunity to kvetch about those Victory runs.
Ah, that's ok. I'm over it. I can see the humor in it.
Anyway, I live in Denver, but I'm a native Dallasite, and have lived in Dallas for no less than 33 years. I visit the forum to see how my hometown is doing. Things happening in the Big 'D', such as Victory not living up to it's namesake, might be obvious to the locals, but if you're out of town, you have no idea things have gone sour there.
great photo
I think victory will get developed before this does. now that hillwood is gone, victory has advantages
- no homeless people
- access to the tollway
- synergy w Uptown
- Perot museum
- w hotel
- west end
This picture reminds me that this is the site of the proposed Sky Lofts on Leonard way back in 2006.
Maybe the Spire development will revive those plans one day.
on the other hand...
- access to 75
- synergy w/Uptown (from Uptown to the Woodall Park to Arts District to this to Farmer's Market)
- synergy w/Arts District
- synergy w/Deep Ellum
- Within traditional downtown loop
- No DBags who hang at the W Hotel
- Doesn't have to deal with the baggage of the West End (ie: locals have no desire to hang out in the WEnd and their chain restaurant reputation)
So...no new news?
http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/D_CEO/...mell_Crow.aspx
EDIT: For anyone that wasn't at the DDI luncheon yesterday, Spire's land was one of the 5 areas targeted for development.Spire Realty’s Caleb Smith: The Next Trammell Crow?
He's got lofty goals as he aims to lead a new generation of developers in Dallas.
by Christine Perez
Published 2.16.2011
From D CEO MAR 2011
Last edited by Mark Lea; 17 February 2011 at 10:01 AM.
This is true but I bet you that if One Arts Plaza sells for its asking price, there will be some pressure to break ground.Although they’re actively marketing The Spire to prospective office tenants, the developers are under no pressure to break ground, as the parking lots are already producing income.
Good article. I like that guy and how he thinks.
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