Intersting tidbit. Forest City is the honoree here in DC at a big black tie gala at the National Building Museum. It is being honored for its contribution to the rebirth of the inner city.
NPS is the entity in this case that certifies that all or one of the buildings are historic. NPS moves in very slow waves, trsut me I've been working with two fifferent NPS projects for almost four years now. One project is (finally) almost ready to get out of the planning phase, at that's taken away three years of my life. When I look back and ask, "why so long?", I remember it was because of the agreements and the selections committees, and all this stuff had to do with the NPS.Originally Posted by Columbus Civil
It's a much bigger beuaracracy than the Dallas City Council.
Intersting tidbit. Forest City is the honoree here in DC at a big black tie gala at the National Building Museum. It is being honored for its contribution to the rebirth of the inner city.
I heard that RTKL has been "let go" as architect for the Merc redo by Forest City. Not good. Downright frightening. Better send my black suit to the cleaners.
uh oh!
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
Maybe they want somebody else.
Unfortunately, it's probably one of those deals where RTKL insiders arent supposed to talk about it.
...
It's news to me, but I was not involved with the project so I wouldn't know anything contemporaneously anyway. It's bad news for us, but hopefully Forest City is still working on it.
CDA SECURES ALBERT RATNER FOR JOINT MEETING
WITH THE REAL ESTATE COUNCIL
The Central Dallas Association and The Real Estate Council will hold a joint general membership meeting on Wednesday, April 6, 2005, featuring Albert Ratner, cochairman of the board, Forest City Enterprises. The meeting will run from 11:30 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. at The Fairmont Dallas, Regency ballroom 1717 N. Akard.
Forest City Enterprises is an acclaimed, diversified real estate company with a reputation for successfully identifying exciting opportunities, assembling the right mix of resources, implementing plans and delivering results. Come hear how Forest City Enterprises has created value in real estate through private/public partnerships as Albert Ratner shares his passion and extraordinary vision of urban redevelopment. Ratner will also provide an update on Downtown Dallas’ Mercantile complex.
The meeting is sponsored by Jackson Walker L.L.P., and Fidelity National Title. Tables and individual tickets can be purchased. For more information call 214-692-3600 or visit www.recouncil.com.
Maybe this is an indication that the Mercantile redo is still viable.
Is anyone going to this?
Dallas uber alles
I agree CC. I think it will happen this time.
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
I attended the downtown Dallas resident's council meeting last night and an update on the Mercantile Building was given. Apparently the complex has not been deemed historic so Forest City can demolish part of the complex as they had hoped, but they can not receive the tax credits or federal funding they were wanting. They city has vowed to make up the difference to keep the project moving. Now everything hinges on the approval of the new TIF district that will go before council on June 8th. If the TIF is approved that will open the door for the redevelopment of the empty buildings that have been in play in that part of downtown.
Were the tax credits and federal funding dependent on the building being deemed historic? I'm surprised that they decided it wasn't historic..
Dallas uber alles
They can still receive tax credits from the City but there was something Forest City could have received from the feds for the rehabilitation of the building.
If anyone else attended the meeting, and I am misspeaking, please correct me.
I was there and your post pretty much sums up what I took away from that part of the meeting.
What they decided is that the two later additions to the complex will have to remain intact for the property to be labeled historic. So Forest City can leave the Securities Building and get historic tax credits on the whole project, or demolish that middle section of the complex and get no tax credits. But for what ever reason, the project doesn't work if you leave the Securities Building standing.
Those federal tax credits are a big deal. Without them the economics on this project go into a spiral. I'm afraid this one may be snake bit.
might something more profitable be built on this site?
surface parking lot
Dallas uber alles
How much money are we talking about here?
Damn! Here comes Columbus' parking lot.
Developer pulls out of downtown project
11:17 AM CDT on Wednesday, May 25, 2005
By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News
WFAA-TV
The Mercantile Bank tower was the focal point of the development plan. The developer who planned to turn downtown Dallas' long-vacant Mercantile Bank complex and Continental Building into a bustling center of retail and residential units is pulling out of the project, Assistant City Manager Ryan Evans said Wednesday morning.
Cleveland-based Forest City Enterprises had sought $75 million in city incentives to redevelop the two blighted city blocks on which the buildings sit, but the city was only willing to offer $60 million, Evans said.
The deal's failure ends months of negotiations between Dallas and Forest City Enterprises, both of whom expressed confidence that a deal could be reached. City officials have long considered the redevelopment of the Mercantile complex fundamental to a downtown Dallas renaissance and have spent years attempting to find new uses for the former commercial tower and smaller surrounding structures.
"We have to step back and rethink the project," Evans said. "I'm confident we can still find an interested party to do it. But if we spent the amount of money Forest City was looking for, we wouldn't be able to reach our overall goal of creating a vibrant downtown."
Forest City Enterprises officials could not be immediately reached for comment.
^Bad bad news!
Just implode the damn thing and build a condo tower!
This is horrible news. The city should just demo everything but the tower, and put a West Village "type" concept where the other two buildings now stand.
The "Can't Do" of Dallas is back.
I guess I should have expected this....
Why am I not surprised?
Does this put the kibosh on the Atmos redevelopment?
Dallas uber alles
Insideloop's dream come true.
Hey don't give him all the credit. I predicted it before he did.
Dallas uber alles
Is there anything the City has mishandled on this deal, or is it simply an impossible property to redevelop?
Dallas uber alles
My bad CC, you were the original.
It's just a difficult redo. And frankly, $75 million can be spent in a much more cost effective way.
How much would new replacement tower with a very nice retail base cost in comparison?
Well, I believe the W was about $110 million and Azure about $100 million. For $75 million, the City could front all the equity for two similar projects and have money left over. But obviously that's not the future for that part of downtown. More realistically, you could put a Gables Uptown Place type structure with 500 units and ground floor retail for less than $75 million total.
This has got to be the longest running thread on the forum that still seems much ado about nothing. Yet another failure.
Time to pimp my downtown culinary arts school plan again. I've been visiting the Illinois Institute of Art in Chicago in downtown quite a bit recently. They have a spot right by the river and high-rise housing to boot. I also visited Kendall College which is highly impressive also - a pretty elite culinary arts school even. The action around the downtown Chicago IIA branch school is as lively on the outside as it is on the inside. Many of Chicago's more widely-acclaimed restaurants are "ironically" nearby. I can see an existing building in Dallas performing this function with some added unique purposes as well.
Take the Merc and assoc. buildings and make it an all-inclusive culinary arts school w/on-site housing and related culinary mgmt programs/hospitality mgmt programs/le cordon bleu program/garde-manger program/specialty cuisine program for the region or any region/etc. Court those types of schools that do all or most of these programs to take over the building. Branch the Arts Inst. of Dallas into downtown. Branch Austin's Texas Culinary Academy. Get the CIA. Bring the ACF. Invent a damn school - use remainder of facilities for on-site housing as well as practical app. for hotel mgmt. and other unique features by using the very building they occupy for these practical factors in study. Sometimes, "Institutes of Arts" also serve up other courses like interior/exterior/digital design/and whatnot. Doesn't have to be as stellar as the RISD in Providence... but, hey. The opportunity is there nevertheless. On top of all that - coursework rooted in this facility can branch out to Grapevine and Turtle Creek for specialty assignments (and apprenticeships/5-vector model self-enhancements) on winerys or more pracfacs w/local sous chefs and so on. Dallas is well-suited for some serious culinary arts advancement. The Merc is sitting there waiting for something far more unique. Then, back to dollars and sense.
Oh, and go "historical painted walls" on the exterior of the less than attractive parts and walls of the existing complex.
No problem with pimping plans. I enjoy pimping my Pearl Station plan. Maybe it should be move to the Mercantile block.
I think it is time. Take it down and start over. I am tired of this damn thing already. Nobody can make it work and it obviously would do better with the slate clear and some new shiny mixed use condo tower.
The frigging Feds killed this deal. Dallas did everything right on this one. You can kiss that building goodbye. Now that a company like this has passed on the deal with that huge amount of financial incentives no one will take this on. Time to order more parking lot stripes.
If a building is not feasible to be used tear the bitch down. But, I would hope that the city would have a DEVELOPMENT deal (other than a parking lot) ready if they do so.
Last edited by St-T; 25 May 2005 at 02:44 PM.
The culinary school idea is pretty cool, but it probably won't attract too many gay attorneys.
Dallas uber alles
^what about gay chefs?
May 25, 2005
RE: THE MERCANTILE
http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/
more thoughts from D Magazine's Frontburner Blog:
Maybe a quick lesson in municipal finance would help. The standard government financing formula to determine costs is ten years. So $75 million equals $7.5 million a year, paid out of a TIF (tax-increment financing district). The funds for the TIF do not come from the city, but by borrowing against the increases in property values that result from the investment. If the $75 million investment in Mercantile would create a $200-300 million dollar project, the city gains the the new tax revenue upon the expiration of the TIF. All the subsidiary businesses that flow from the project (restaurants, parking, retail, etc.) flow straight into the coffers of the city. So, all in all, the $15 million difference between what the city is offering and Forest City wants is negligible to the city ($1.5 million a year). The TIF/city would get it back without breaking a sweat, meanwhile energizing one of the deadest blocks in downtown.
Wick Allison · 02:22 PM
RE: THE MERCANTILE
A not-so-fast FrontBurnvervian wonders why the city is the fall guy.
I couldn't let this one pass without a comment. The City of Dallas is to blame because it only offered $60 million in incentives to this multi-billion dollar real estate developer? According to its website, "Forest City has approximately $7.3 billion in total assets (as of 1/31/05)..." Why not blame the developer for trying to squeeze the city for every penny, or in this case 1,500,000,000 pennies, it can get? I feel better now.I happen to think Forest City has had every right to demand that much. FC was asking for TIF dollars; the amount of tax revenue from the new Mercantile and the ripple effect would make $75 million look like a bargain. Of course, now we'll never know.
Adam McGill · 01:57 PM
Wick Allison · 01:48 PM
RE: THE MERCANTILE
Another business/civic type is thoroughly depressed:
That the City of Dallas was unable to close this deal sends a terrible signal to those parties who might be interested in development in the CBD. If this project was a linchpin for the efforts downtown--which I believe--then why did the city let this one get away over $15 million dollars? I am afraid that we have a city that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. We are the central urban core of a metro area of almost 6 million people. Our central downtown area is a disgrace, especially when one visits so many other cities, not nearly as populous or prominent as Big D.Folks, what can I say? With the city government we have, it can only get worse.
Wick Allison · 01:35 PM
RE: THE MERCANTILE
A glass-is-half-empty FrontBurnervian sez:
Why am I not surprised that the Merc deal fell through?
"Dallas--The CAN'T DO CITY!"
Where is a strong mayor when we need one--at least we would have someone to blame!
A glass-is-half-full downtowner might point out the possibility that this news is just public posturing for the sake of negotiations. Probably not, but maybe.
Hmmm...Why am I not surprised that the Merc deal fell through?
"Dallas--The CAN'T DO CITY!"
Where is a strong mayor when we need one--at least we would have someone to blame!
Sounds like someone on here.
Dallas uber alles
How depressing...but is this all the city councils fault?
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
^I am sure if we really tried we could still figure out a way to blame our current mayor. But this is just one project out of how many? Should we be surprised that one of them fell through. No, and especially this one. We all know the cost to convert this complex is astronomical. The less expensive and more cost effective solution may be to obliterate it.
I believe so.
Let's start making plans for a demolition party!
Interesting.....
This isn't just "one project." They staked the turnaround of that whole area of town on this deal and now it's dead. This adds about five years to the time it will take to turn Main Street around. And in the while the real estate market and the economy could go south and put more years and years in the wait. This is bad, bad news and will make it twice as hard for anyone else to get anything done downtown. Every banker and investors will wonder what it was that killed the Merc deal and could that be a problem for whatever deal they are also looking at. If you can't rehab an old building with $60 million being handed to you, well then what hope is there for the one up the street and the one beyond that. Unless the city is prepared to buy this building and redo it themselves then the parade is over.
tear it down.
Great Idea! I'll bring the napkins.. what are you bringing? lol
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