After the international terminal is open, I wonder if AA will shift Latin & South American connections from Miami to DFW, keeping Caribbean connections in Miami. Delta just made Hartsfield-Jackson a "Super Hub" by adding 100 more flights a day out of Atlanta - if that works for Delta ($$), AA would might consider the move.Originally Posted by Lakewooder
Getting rid of the Wright Amendment could possibly open up more airports that can be used as normal airports. We can have more airlines and more competition. Some of those airlines that could come to the Metroplex could be international carriers. AA and DFW needs some competition. It'll be better for the consumers to have competition between multiple airports and airlines.. We can have DFW, Love, Meachem, Alliance, Addison
Well, I'm all for more competition for AA, but I don't think the Wright Amendment is the real issue. Yes, it's stupid and outdated, but not the issue.
The real problem in getting more international carriers is the lack of international O&D passengers out of DFW. Other carriers look at DFW and obviously see it as AA's main hub. However, when you look at where AA routes the majority of its international flights, they aren't routed through DFW. The vast majority of AA's international flights are routed through MIA, ORD, LAX, and JFK. What do these cities/airports have over DFW? In my opinion, nothing. But, in AA's opinion, those cities have more international O&D passengers, therefore that's where most of the international carriers fly as well.
D/FW adding freight flights
Airport hopes to expand shipping business to Europe
11:35 PM CDT on Friday, October 8, 2004
By SUZANNE MARTA / The Dallas Morning News
Focused in recent years on Asia, officials at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport are now setting their sights on expanding cargo business with Europe.
D/FW will add cargo flights to Amsterdam starting Monday, boosting the region's capacity to trade in goods from communications equipment to fresh flowers.
The new destination offers an important connecting hub for flights headed throughout Europe and the Middle East.
The launch of service by Dutch freighter Martinair marks the latest expansion to D/FW's international cargo business, which has grown nearly four-fold over the last decade.
Cargo growth at D/FW continues to outpace the industry, and airport officials say they're bullish that the trend will continue.
As shippers seek to meet business' just-in-time inventory demands, they are turning to interior U.S. gateways such as North Texas.
Now Asia accounts for almost half of D/FW's cargo business. The airport's service to Asian markets has grown to 32 freighters a week.
Eva Airways Corp. of Taipei is expected to add two direct flights between D/FW and Taiwan by November, bringing its schedule up to eight trips each week.
Although not as fast-growing as many Asian markets, Europe plays a significant trade role for shippers in the south central United States.
Cargo shipments between the region and Europe are expected to grow between 3 percent and 4.2 percent annually between 2005 and 2008, according to MergeGlobal Inc. of Arlington, Va.
European cargo
Europe represents about 36 percent of D/FW's cargo business, although much of the trans-Atlantic service relies on passenger flights, which carry cargo in the belly of the plane.
"Europe hasn't gotten the attention it deserves," said Bill Frainey, an assistant vice president in the airport's marketing and revenue management department.
There have only been five weekly cargo flights between D/FW and Europe, serving Brussels and Frankfurt.
And the two flights that stopped in Brussels – operated by Singapore Airlines – operated an eastbound schedule only.
Martinair's flights from Amsterdam include stops in Toronto and Chicago, which will share the service with D/FW.
"This gives us a whole new distribution point into Europe," Mr. Frainey said.
Being able to offer "main deck" cargo space to key global centers is critical as D/FW positions itself as international gateway and distribution point for goods shipped to and from the United States.
The airport is the 11th busiest in the nation for cargo shipments, but third busiest when it comes to takeoffs and landings.
Less time
Traditionally, international cargo was sent out of major trade cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago and New York. But to reduce shipping time and costs, many companies have shifted cargo to cities with more central locations.
That has been especially important as both rail and trucking companies grapple with capacity constraints driven by labor shortages and high fuel costs.
"Everyone wants to move their products quicker," Mr. Frainey said. "People don't want their shipment stuck in L.A. for three days waiting for a truck."
And by starting service to a third European city, D/FW hopes to attract new customers.
"We can give them a new link to an untapped market so they don't have to truck everything to or from some place like Chicago," Mr. Frainey said.
D/FW's market is much larger than North Texas. The "catchment" area – or potential customer market– is a 12-hour truck-drive radius from the airport.
Globally, cargo business has grown an average of 6 percent a year, about half the pace D/FW has experienced lately.
The industry spent the last three years climbing back to where it was before the economic downturn of 2001, but has seen stronger than usual growth during 2004.
For the first six months of the year, international traffic grew by 10 percent, said Robert Dahl, project director for the Seattle-based aviation consulting firm Air Cargo Management Group.
^Now if DFW officals can just convince KLM/Royal Dutch to start passenger service from Amsterdam. That would be cool!
By the power of greyskull!
mmmm. Amsterdam.
Geaux, your signature is the most mind numbingly stupid thing I've ever seen.
pwned.
Perhaps not the most, but I'm definitely not a fan of politics here at DallasMetropolis. It would ruin everything.
So the DNC thread on Pegasus Place shouldn't be here?
By the power of greyskull!
Why? Politics has an impact on just about all urban development that we discuss on this forum. (eg. Trinity River Project, DART Rail funding, Farmers Market, just to name a few).
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
So does religion... but we avoid discussing religion and political ideology so that we can discuss other things.
Actually, no... political ideology has no impact on whether DFW airport gets a direct flight to Amsterdam, or if Arlington will build a football stadium for the Cowboys.
That's what I'm thinking. We've all seen what happens at SSC and SSP.
I agree in part! However, my post was in response to the following posts which were totally unrelated to either of the two issues you raised:
. . . and if you don't think politics has anything to do with the Cowboys Stadium, whether it be in Arlington or Dallas, then you haven't been paying attention to the development of this topic for the past 18 months.
And just to be clear, "Political ideology" refers to what one thinks about a certain issue as it pertains to his/her core values and morals. "Politics" refers to the actions that one takes in furtherance of his/her political ideology.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I'm talking about things like national and state politics, the tired presidential arguments, and so on. These are different politics, local and regional. Very different in many ways.
I think the reality of DFW becoming the premier airport in the global cargo marketplace is dependant on the ability of manufacturers to build larger and more fuel efficient planes capable of 15-20 hour nonstop flights and the ability of service providers to profitably operate them.
With a catchment area's population expected to double within 3-4 decades, the opportunity is there.D/FW's market is much larger than North Texas. The "catchment" area – or potential customer market– is a 12-hour truck-drive radius from the airport.
Don't we already have an airport devoted almost exclusively to air cargo? Isn't it called Alliance Airport?
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
To my knowledge- Alliance does not handle International air cargo- just a little domestic... I do not believe they have customs agents etc... I could be wrong though! Also- some of the cargo that comes into DFW is actually placed on passenger airlines like Korean Air, Singapore Air etc...
THey were talking about services from DFW to Shanghai but i dont' know if this will become true or not..it'll be awesome if it is.
D/FW SkyLink train delayed
Contractor must replace failing plates over track joints to smooth ride
11:56 PM CST on Tuesday, February 1, 2005
By KATIE FAIRBANK and MICHAEL GRABELL / The Dallas Morning News
A track feature that is supposed to ensure a comfortable ride on the new people-mover at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport is failing and needs to be replaced.
Work is continuing on D/FW Airport's SkyLink people-mover system, which has been delayed until at least late April.
The problem sets back completion on the $800 million SkyLink system until late April, but passengers probably won't get onboard until much later.
"From a customer standpoint, from an airport standpoint, we obviously have to have it running in July, when Terminal D opens," said Clay Paslay, executive vice president for airport development.
"The window of time that we have," he said, "is to flush this kind of issue out."
According to information provided to an airport board committee Tuesday, the problem showed up during testing of SkyLink, a new train system that is replacing the airport's 30-year-old Airtrans.
The tests showed that numerous ride-plates, which serve as bridges over track joints, weren't working correctly.
There are 98 sets of ride-plates required on the tracks.
The engineer of record recommended removing all of them and replacing them with a redesigned connection. So far, about half of the faulty plates have been taken out.
The ride-plates do not affect safety.
The new version will add two pieces to the joint and increase the thickness of the steel from a quarter inch to 1 inch.
Contractor Bombardier Transportation (Holdings) USA Inc. will pay to fix the problem.
E-mail kfairbank@dallasnews.com
or mgrabell@dallasnews.com
Just curious, who paid for the skylink? DFW Airport or the Taxpayers? The two are probably related.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
Didn't they use bonds? I know DFW is in debt up to its eyeballs.
I'm not suprised thier having trouble with it, it was built by Bombardier. Ever heard of the Las Vegas Monorail?
Taken from a news article:
the monorail came back online on Christmas Eve, almost four months after mechanical problems brought the system to a grinding halt.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on Fri, Feb. 04, 2005
New jet could land at D/FW
By Bryon Okada
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
D/FW AIRPORT - With the aviation industry abuzz about a lack of viable airfields for the new Airbus A380 superjumbo jet to land on, Dallas/Fort Worth Airport officials would have it known: We can handle them.
The European-built, long-haul A380s could land today on three runways close to D/FW's terminals, D/FW Chief Executive Officer Jeff Fegan said.
"The original runways were actually built at a time before the standards were locked in," Fegan said. "Air Force standards were used on the inboard runways."
After all, when D/FW opened, the original vision for the airport was full of space-age enthusiasm. (In 1973, Director Thomas Sullivan predicted rocket-powered jets, 1,000-seat "skyscraper planes" and interplanetary shuttles would all use D/FW.)
The fuel-efficient, two-level, 555-seat A380, which can be reconfigured to hold 850 seats, is nearly as big as the skyscraper planes of Sullivan's vision -- and too big for some of the biggest U.S. airports.
This week, Ben DeCosta, director of Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson megahub, told The Associated Press that his runways were too narrow, which prompted Airbus officials to state that they weren't planning to fly to Atlanta anyway.
D/FW has three 200-foot-wide runways -- 17-Right, 18-Left and 13-Left -- that can handle the wider plane.
"We could land them today," Fegan said. "The only work we'd have to do is to some taxiways, where we would expand the pavement to make turning easier."
Wider taxiways would cost $7 million, D/FW Chief Operating Officer Kevin Cox said.
In fact, airlines have already inquired about facilities, Cox said, not identifying the airlines.
Behind the scenes, D/FW fire and emergency rescue crews have already begun practicing double-level evacuations to get safety standards up to snuff, spokesman Ken Capps said.
In 2004, D/FW had its highest number of international passengers ever and its best international cargo total in six years.
IN THE KNOW
Superjumbo jet
• The two-deck, 555-seat A380 passenger plane has a range of up to 8,000 nautical miles, allowing it to fly nonstop between Europe and Asia.
• The three-deck-high, long-range freighter version, the A380F, will be able to carry up to 152 tons of cargo over distances of up to 5,600 nautical miles.
• The plane is 239 feet long and has a wingspan of 262 feet.
• The airliner was unveiled in January with four European heads of state attending.
• First passenger operations are scheduled to begin in 2006 with Singapore Airlines.
• FedEx and UPS have ordered freighter versions.
SOURCE: Airbus
RELATED STORY
• International traffic increases at D/FW Airport. BUSINESS | 2C
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on Fri, Feb. 04, 2005
International traffic increases
By Bryon Okada
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
D/FW AIRPORT - International passenger levels at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport in 2004 were the airport's best ever, exceeding 2000 figures, according to year-end totals released by the airport Thursday.
Airport officials said it was a good sign because D/FW will open international Terminal D in July. The airport had 5.1 million international passengers in 2004, up from 4.4 million in 2003.
But it wasn't enough to prevent a O.1 percent overall dip in December passenger levels -- "a reflection of the Delta pulldown in December," said Joe Lopano, D/FW executive vice president of marketing and revenue management.
Delta's December passenger total of 522,164 was 33.2 percent below December 2003.
January figures will probably be far worse, followed by a February that will reflect the full extent of Delta's cutback to just four gates and 21 daily flights out of Terminal E.
D/FW's 2004 year-end overall passenger totals -- 59.4 million -- were the best since 2000, reflecting a strong year before Delta Air Lines' winter service reduction, Lopano said.
Low-cost carriers had a strong December, up 19.1 percent over 2003.
A flash estimate shows D/FW's January passenger levels 3.6 percent above last year's levels, despite Delta's pulldown, Lopano said. Lower fares and increased AirTran service are the reasons for higher passenger totals, he said.
Landing fees collected from airlines were slightly below forecasts for the three months ending in December. But strong parking and concessions revenues have D/FW $6.9 million ahead of forecast revenues for the first quarter of fiscal 2005, said D/FW's chief financial officer, Chris Poinsatte.
In other news, former Fort Worth City Councilman Jeff Wentworth, an Arlington Heights resident, is the new chairman of the D/FW Airport Board, replacing Max Wells.
During a simple change of chairs between Wentworth and Wells, Dallas Mayor Laura Miller, a board member, lauded Wells for his "amazing stewardship" of the airport during his two years as chairman.
Airport board veteran Jerry Haynes is vice chairman, and member Santiago Salinas is secretary.
Welcome, world, to the International Airport of Dallas and Fort Worth.
awww. That's cute. People actually think DFW will get the A380.
Not with AA being the primary international flyer, they don't own any plans forgien, unless its the smaller jets. Maybe Airfrance could start flying one? or Lufthansa?
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
What about Quantas... the Sydney to Dallas flights.
...also Asia carriers would be a possibility.
I think it will happen...sorry to disappoint you, Fashion.
Thats intresting, Check this out from http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/news_eve...ics/sst/4.html
Artist's conception of an aircraft overpass at the Dallas/Fort Worth Regional Airport. The illustration, drawn in 1975, depicts just one of the many possibilities laid out in the airport's 2001 Land Use Plan.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
why's it cute. I see no reason why not.
Note: DFW does not currently get any regularly scheduled passenger 747s. In fact, we don't even get 777-300s.
If Lufthansa thought we were A380-worthy, they'd likely be sending a 747 right now.
If Air France thought we were A380-worthy, they'd.....start serving DFW?
Unless AA decides to buy some of them (hah), DFW won't see A380 service until they come out with the cargo version, and even that is iffy.
Well we saw the Concord once (in the 70s if im correct), I'm sure will get a visit from the A380 sometime.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
with the international terminal opening, bigger planes like that will be much more feasible. DFW of today and DFW of a year from today will be like two entirely different entities i should imagine
I know, and everyone wants to come to DFW
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
There's a regularly scheduled flight on American to and from O'Hare on a 777. I'm not sure if it's a 777-300, though.Note: DFW does not currently get any regularly scheduled passenger 747s. In fact, we don't even get 777-300s.
Dallas uber alles
^
I flew to Zurich from DFW on a 777 before. No idea if that route is still around and no idea if it was a 777-300.
AA only has 777-200s. I think Korean is a 200 also.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
What's the difference between a 200 and a 300?
Dallas uber alles
300 version has longer range and more seating. http://boeing.com/commercial/777family/background.html
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
Well, seeing as how DFW is one of the few US airports that can handle an A-380, I guess the likelyhood of us seeing a few landing here is better than most.
If the typical 747-200 doesn't seat THAT many more passengers than the A340-300 that Lufthansa flies (337 vs. 305), but is much more efficent as far as operational costs are concerned, why bother? Also, there is no need for an airline to fly a 777-300 into DFW due to our geographic location right in the middle of the country. The 777-300 is usually reserved for serious long range flights (i.e., London to LAX or Tokyo to Atlanta). But, with all that said, if Lufthansa, Air France, Virgin Atlantic, and British Airways get their hands on a few A380's, I doubt they're going to sit on them until ORD, MIA, BOS, LAX and SFO build runways that can handle a plane that big. No, I imagine they're going to want to start making a little money back on those babies, so they're going to start flying them as much and as often as possible.
By the way, seeing as how you seem so hung up on the idea, Japan Airlines, Korean, Braniff, and AA have all flown one version or another of a scheduled 747 passenger service through DFW.
Last edited by Geaux Tigers; 06 February 2005 at 09:17 AM.
By the power of greyskull!
It would cool if Virgin started flying here to compete with AA and British. I here there looking into purchasing A380.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
American to boost number of flights at D/FW
By Trebor Banstetter
Star-Telegram Staff Writer
FORT WORTH -- American Airlines will boost flights at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport even more than expected this year, the company said Monday.
The Fort Worth-based airline, which operates a major hub at D/FW, will add 119 new flights by July. That's significantly more than the 70 originally announced in September, after Delta Air Lines decided to close its hub at D/FW. That projection was later raised to 90.
The latest boost in flights was spurred by a 12 percent jump in bookings at D/FW, which came after the airline lowered the price of last-minute fares by as much as 50 percent.
When the growth is completed, American will have a total of 839 flights a day from D/FW -- a record number.
"The additional flights will allow us to make even more seats available at D/FW," said Dan Garton, American's executive vice president of marketing, in a prepared statement.
The growth comes as airport officials are working to lure new airlines to the airport to replace the gates being vacated by Delta. Airport officials are discussing a possible incentives package to several airlines, including Orlando-based AirTran Airways.
Those negotiations are expected to take several months.
^I wonder if there will be any new destinations or are we going to see just increased frequency on existing routes?
By the power of greyskull!
American Increases Dallas/Fort Worth Flights For Summer
In response to steadily growing demand for seats on flights from Dallas/Fort Worth, American Airlines and American Eagle will increase the number of daily flights available from Dallas/Fort Worth this summer. This demand has surpassed previous expectations, and will result in a combined total of 839 departures a day at Dallas/Fort Worth this summer.
Overall, by July 2005 American will have increased daily flight frequencies on a total of 61 routes from Dallas/Fort Worth. Meanwhile, by July American Eagle will have introduced a total of 11 new markets at Dallas/Fort Worth and added service in another 29 markets.
American will have a total of 550 mainline jet flights a day at Dallas/Fort Worth by July. This represents a record for American at Dallas/Fort Worth and an increase of 45 flights a day from a year ago. American Eagle's Dallas/Fort Worth service will increase by 74 flights, to a record high 289 flights in July 2005.
This year, American is adding service at Dallas/Fort Worth in February, March, April and June, including additional flights to Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston and more than 50 other U.S. destinations. Increased frequency to international destinations such as London Gatwick and Tokyo Narita will be offered as well. The addition of these international destinations comes as Dallas/Fort Worth and American prepare for the opening of Dallas/Fort Worth's new International Terminal D in July.
As part of its expansion, American Eagle either has or soon will begin service to the following new destinations from Dallas/Fort Worth:
Buffalo, NY
Champaign, IL
Chihuahua, Mexico
Lexington, KY
Pensacola, FL
Peoria, IL
San Luis Potosí, Mexico
Savannah, GA
Torreon, Mexico
Here are complete lists of all the service changes that will have been introduced by American and American Eagle at Dallas/Forth Worth between July 2004 and July 2005:
AMERICAN AIRLINES DALLAS/FORT WORTH SERVICE AMERICAN EAGLE DALLAS/FORT WORTH SERVICE
City Total Flights As Of July 2005 City Total Flights As Of July 2005
Albuquerque, NM 9 Abilene, TX 7
Austin, TX 16 Amarillo, TX 9
Boston, MA 11 Baton Rouge, LA 7
Cabo San Lucas, Mexico 3 Buffalo, NY 1
Cancun, Mexico 5 Cedar Rapids, IA 5
*Charlotte, NC 6 Champaign, IL 1
Colorado Springs, CO 7 Chihuahua, Mexico 1
Chicago O'Hare 19 Cincinnati, OH 6
*Columbus, OH 3 College Station, TX 7
Denver, CO 13 *Columbus, OH 2
Detroit, MI 6 Corpus Christi, TX 8
El Paso, TX 8 *Dayton, OH 2
Fort Lauderdale, FL 8 Des Moines, IA 6
Fort Myers, FL 2 Fort Smith, AR 6
Fresno, CA 2 Fort Wayne, IN 3
Hartford, CT 3 Grand Rapids, MI 3
*Houston Bush 12 Greensboro, NC 5
*Huntsville, AL 3 Greenville/Spartanburg, SC 4
Indianapolis, IN 6 *Houston Bush, TX 2
Jacksonville, FL 4 Houston Hobby, TX 10
Kansas City, MO 12 Jackson, MS 6
Los Angeles 17 Killeen, TX 11
McAllen, TX 4 Knoxville, TN 4
*Memphis, TN 4 Laredo, TX 5
*Nashville, TN 8 Lawton, OK 7
New Orleans, LA 8 *Leon, MEX 2
New York Kennedy 4 Lexington, KY 3
New York LaGuardia 14 Little Rock, AR 12
*Northwest Arkansas, AR 3 *Louisville, KY 3
Oakland, CA 4 Lubbock, TX 9
Orlando, FL 10 Midland/Odessa, TX 6
*Oklahoma City, OK 6 Milwaukee, WI 5
Orange County, CA 10 *Northwest Arkansas, AR 7
Paris, FR 1 *Oklahoma City, OK 3
Philadelphia, PA 8 Pensacola, FL 6
Pittsburgh, PA 5 Peoria, IL 2
Portland, OR 5 San Luis Potosí, Mexico 1
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico 3 Savannah, GA 3
Raleigh/Durham, NC 8 Shreveport, LA 12
Reno, NV 3 Springfield, MO 8
Sacramento, CA 6 Torreon, Mexico 1
San Antonio, TX 16 *Tulsa, OK 6
San Jose, CA 7 Wichita Falls, TX 8
St. Louis, MO 12
Tampa, FL 8
Tucson, AZ 8
*Tulsa, OK 5
Tokyo 2
Toronto, Canada 4
Washington Reagan National 11
West Palm Beach, FL 2
Wichita, KS 3
*Served by American Airlines and American Eagle
^I don't see Frankfurt or London listed.
By the power of greyskull!
Cool, Frankfurt served from Dallas by AA? I thought it was only Lufthansa.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
^AA flight #70 departs DFW daily at 2:50pm for Frankfurt. From what I've heard it is one of AA's most profitable international routes in and out of DFW.
Also, from my previous post, I don't see Zurich listed. That is also a current daily AA flight from DFW.
By the power of greyskull!
The cities/flights listed above only reflect CHANGES to the AA schedule out of DFW.
City To Borrow Millions To Bring Double-Decker Airbus To JFK
FEBRUARY 05TH, 2005
The city will reportedly borrow millions of dollars to bring the double-decker Airbus A380 to Kennedy Airport.
The Daily News says the city will issue $30 million in bonds to re-fit four JFK passenger gates for the world's biggest plane. The city's industrial development board is expected to vote on the bonds next month.
The Port Authority already plans to spend about $180 million to widen runways and strengthen taxiway bridges for the massive jet.
The 18-month construction project would start in the fall, with the double-decker A380 first expected at JFK two years from now.
http://www.ny1.com/ny/Boroughs/SubTo...entintid=47935
Great news. For some reason I doubt DFW will be as crippled by Delta's departure as they'd like you to believe.
Of course, this increase in flights only makes DFW even less attractive to low cost carriers.
I love how the Airlines arnt paying a dime for this. I say if its there gate is being refitted, they need to gather atleast half the money for it.
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
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