I don't know but ATL will finally be able to claim world busiest airport in both categories passengers and movements (take off/landings). The passenger numbers are not out yet but ATL should have more than O'Hare easily.
How long has the O'hare vs. Atlanta been going back and fourth? 10 years?
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
I don't know but ATL will finally be able to claim world busiest airport in both categories passengers and movements (take off/landings). The passenger numbers are not out yet but ATL should have more than O'Hare easily.
I think one year in the mid-90's DFW was the world's busiest (ahead of Atlanta and O'Sacre).Originally Posted by texman
By the power of greyskull!
The difference is DFW lost 80,000 operations this year I assume due largely to Delta. Last year it wasn't such a large spread.
Jason
Edit: Its worth noting they really didn't lose any passengers despite the drop in flights.
Last edited by JasonDallas; 04 January 2006 at 10:37 PM.
The gap will close as there is more demand for flights out of DFW when Wright is shed away. Once Wright goes aways AA should "megahub" DFW and scale back their hub at O'Hare. Makes sense to me for them to battle Southwest from DFW. It will be great for both airports and airlines.
The major problem expressed on this board and others about DFW is taxi times but I have only once experienced a long wait on the taxiway on a Delta flight. The perimeter taxiways should remedy the problem with long taxi times.
Last edited by FortWorthGuy; 05 January 2006 at 10:41 AM.
American Airlines: An Asian Bride On The Way?
There are a number of regions where new industrial growth will drive strong new air transportation growth - both passenger and cargo:
China - simply because it's the Middle Kingdom that'll be driving the global economy
The Deep South - the new automotive and industrial center of the United States
The US Midwest. Forget the stuff about Delphi and the fact that GM insists on building cars with styling that's almost lethally boring. This is another region with enormous new industrial investment
Latin America - particularly Northern Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina, plus burgeoning trade that can be expected between this region and China.
Now, take a look at the globe. Which airline's major connecting hub can put all four of these regions together? Yup. American Airlines at DFW.
Here's a tidbit for some cocktail party repartee: Beijing to Buenos Aires over DFW is only about 2% longer than flying it nonstop. When the additional connectivity is factored in - say, with an alliance between American and a major Chinese carrier - the potential becomes enormous. And that's just for starters.
The American Decade. When core strategic position is matched with emerging global airline trends, American Airlines is facing near-bulletproof growth. Internally, the carrier has stabilized costs and established labor co-operation. That now lets the carrier take full advantage of its unique strengths and market opportunities.
American’s juggernaut hub at D/FW, some Love-Phobia notwithstanding, puts it in a giant competitive position for increased domestic-international, and international-to-international revenue flows. At D/FW, American accesses virtually all of the global growth areas in the US, large and small. It has a dominant position in Latin America. A strong network to the Deep South, the Upper Midwest, and to Northern Mexico. Now toss in connectivity to major industrial points in China, via key code-share alliances, and the picture's complete.
AA/DFW As A Second Emirates/Dubai. Only Bigger. We can look at Emirates as a hint of the opportunities American faces. Emirates' hub at Dubai is fortuitously located in a position where it is a natural connecting point for key East-West traffic flows. China to Africa. Europe to Southeast Asia and Australia.
DFW is like Dubai in that it's nicely located as a cross-connect point between major international regions, except that it's got fewer camels wandering around and has a whole lot more population. Now consider that over the next five years, Chinese airlines will be trying to gain trade access to South America. But Chinese carriers, dependent on non-stops and without an intermediate connecting point, will be boxed into super-long haul flying to only large destinations in South America.
AA’s D/FW hub - right in the middle - makes American a valuable alliance partner for Chinese carriers where they can access traffic flows to smaller places in Latin America which they never could fly to nonstop from Beijing or Shanghai. Places like Caracas. Monterrey. And, eventually, Havana. No other airline is as well positioned for this traffic.
Give it 12 to 36 months to develop.
http://www.aviationplanning.com/Predictions2006.htm
Great news! Does AA currently serve Beijing from Chicago or anywhere? Or would we see this provided by another carrier?
"And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963
But AA has cancelled service to Lima, blaming Love Field...
Mexican airlines to cease service at D/FW International
Margaret Allen - Staff Writer
http://dallas.bizjournals.com/dallas...ml?t=printable
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport is about to become the only major U.S. airport not served by either of Mexico's two principal airlines. Both Mexico-based AeroMexico and Mexicana de Aviacion will soon stop all service to D/FW Airport. Mexicana, which just started service to D/FW in July, flies its last flight Jan. 10. AeroMexico's last flight will be Feb. 5. After the pullout, Fort Worth-based American Airlines Inc. (NYSE: AMR) will be the only carrier with nonstop service from D/FW into the Mexico market.
D/FW will lose service to two of its 17 nonstop Mexico destinations, according to Joe Lopano, executive vice president of marketing and terminal management for D/FW. "They're both going to be leaving the market," said Lopano. "And that's not good for us." Mexicana was the only airline with nonstop D/FW service into Morelia, where it has been flying four times a week. That was also the case with Zacatecas, where Mexicana has been flying three times a week, said Lopano.
Mexicana also flies once a week into Guadalajara. AeroMexico, which has been at D/FW for many years, has been flying one daily nonstop flight to Mexico City. While Lopano couldn't say why the airlines plan to stop service, he did say that in recent weeks, Mexicana has seen extensive management changes, and AeroMexico's market status has been deeply altered at D/FW. He noted the airline was no doubt hurt financially when Delta Air Lines Inc., a codeshare partner, withdrew its mini-hub operation from D/FW in January 2005.
Until recently, the two airlines had the Mexican government as their majority shareholder through the government's airline holding company Cintra S.A. de C.V. A minority share is traded on Mexico's stock exchange. The government auctioned both airlines in late 2005, and successfully reached a deal with hotel and travel mogul Grupo Posadas to buy Mexicana. Since then, Mexicana has seen extensive management changes. The government, which rejected the bids it received for AeroMexico, has said it will try again in early 2006 to sell that carrier.
The Mexican government acquired Mexico's two premier carriers in the early 1990s, after they slid into bankruptcy during a major devaluation of the peso. AeroMexico is Mexico's largest carrier. Mexicana is the second largest. Prior to the sale, Mexicana had been expanding its service into the United States. At the same time, AeroMexico in early November petitioned the U.S. Department of Transportation for an additional route into D/FW from Leon. "This is certainly a blip," said Lopano. "American has a tremendous amount of service into Mexico and uses its American Eagle regional jets to fly into the secondary and tertiary markets."
Lopano said he hopes to persuade American to start up service to Morelia and Zacatecas. He said he'll also be meeting with Mexicana and AeroMexico officials in the next few weeks to try and convince them to restart service from D/FW.
Web site: www.dfwairport.com
mallen@bizjournals.com | 214-706-7119
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
^^American Airlines is definitely tightening the noose around North Texas.
Can you believe it? Dallas will be the only major market in the U.S. (other than Minneapolis) which will lack service by Mexican airlines to Mexico.
Houston is served by both Aviacsa and Mexicana.
San Antonio is served by both Aerolitoral and Mexicana.
Heck, even El Paso has service by Aerlitoral.
This is just getting more and more depressing. Joe Lopano needs to be fired (or just move his office over to American Airlines' headquarters, if it isn't there already).
You cant blame it all on Joe but AA is killing others at DFW. This is a loss of nine flights and AA flies to all but 2 of the destinations and one of the destinations is not accessible from any other US airport. I think AA just crushed them in this market. This is why Wright needs to go away so AA's stranglehold will be loosened a bit at DFW. Despite this I think DFW is going to be just fine and everything will iron itself out.
Guys they will probably be back. Mexicana left and came back. It is insane for them not to service this market with a high spanish speaking population. How can they not eventually service this market? I think one of them will be back plus its only nine flights and we only lost two minor destinations.
It will not be easy to get rid of Wright and it may take a long time but it will happen because the benefits have already been seen. The problem and strength of DFW is AA's hub. AA could be dominant and benefit the consumer if they have direct competition from WN at Love. WN and DFW competing in this market from Love and DFW will flood the gates at Love and DFW with passengers.
Like the article above states we will probably see Asian carriers for cargo and passengers because of our key location on this continent. No other US airport can boast what DFW can (I think). Within 4 hours of every major city in North America is a incredible advantage for AA. Look for Cathay Pacific and possibly Quantas to serve DFW eventually. I think Air Tran has further expansion plans at DFW and will probably act on them in the near future. They have been just waiting for the right moment. They could really give AA some competition if they wanted to like the do to Delta at Hartsfield.
I think the damage done to Mexican Tourism by the recent hurricaines may have played a part in their decision. I agree that they'll be back.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
What ever happened to Air India? Are they still trying to pick either DFW or Houston for nonstop flights?
Does the Wright Amendment apply to international travel?
What makes this especially troubling (the departure of the Mexicans) is that Mexicana is in an extremely tight code sharing alliance with American Airlines.
Indeed, Mexicana flies to every other American Airlines hub city: Miami, Chicago, New York and Los Angeles.
Maybe if the DFW Airport Board spent less time harassing major Dallas-based corporations they would have more time to focus on cultivating other carriers and trying to create a more hospitable operating climate.
This might be slightly off topic, but how many of us stick to our guns and support other carriers by doing everything possible to NOT fly on AA from DFW? I recently have begun doing so, I'm just curious as to how many others are "suffering" through transfers, long taxi times, etc. to not give AA their money. I flew back to NYC on United (had to transfer at O'Hare, obviously) and the flight was probably just half full, maybe less, though much more enjoyable than any AA flight I can remember. They even still give you free snacks!
People fly American because they can get you almost anywhere more times per day than anyone else. I have only flown AA once and it was not a bad experience at all. How bad is it to wait a bit longer for the plane to get to the runway anyway? You could be driving to your destination but instead you are relaxing in a plane. Come on people you can't expect super fast turnarounds at an airport that has over 1000 departures per day compared to the 250 or so daily flighs WN has out of its biggest hub. People who make the turnaround comparison are being unrealistic and unfair to AA and all other carriers who choose to service DFW or any large, busy airport for that matter! I bet if you saw a comparison of turnaround times you would find that on average the airlines are not far apart when it comes to taxi times and WN has a big advantage in most markets because it serves airports that are not near as busy as DFW, ATL or O'Hare. Dont get me wrong WN has a great strategy but they dont have the reach that other carriers provide.
I'm doing it now. I flew America West to Arizona at Christmas and will use them again to go to Vegas this month and will use SW anywhere I can. America West has great fares so that choice is easy. AA was twice the price on both flights.
You mean US Airways.
No, he meant America West as they're the one that does AZ. Perhaps one day they'll get it worked out to where he can say US Airways, but if you walk to the counter for US Airways (as I did the other day) they'll tell you they can't help you here, walk over to America West. The E-ticket checkins fail as well.
Jason
I did so the other day to St. Louis. American matched SW fare but I chose SW instead despite the fact that I collect AA miles. I think I'll do it again too.
The other day I was on an AA flight to Montreal and they didn't even hand out peanuts! They're really reaching to cut costs. I don't think they've made money since about 2000, and they seem to be scraping the barrel.
Jason
I fly to Orange County every week on AA. If you are in coach there is nothing for free except a soda. You can purchase a snack box that has a nasty sausage stick. I flew to ABQ on SW last week--they handed out peanuts and a breakfast bar. Beer is $3 and cocktails are $4... on AA both are $5.
FortWorthGuy, I'm aware that American is more convenient from DFW than any other airline. That's why I'm asking the questions. Most of us here seem to think that American dominating DFW and doing their best to crush competition through underhanded tactics is a bad thing. The way, as I see it, to stop that is by flying to and from DFW on AA's competition, to encourage them to expand their flights and maye encourage more airlines to come in and provide more options. Which will only do the consumer well.
When I flew out on United, it meant that I had to transfer in Chicago and leave a little earlier than I wanted to and get in a little bit later. The plane had to taxi all the way around the airport (American is positioned so that I've rarely had a long taxi on their flights), which took quite a while, but provided quite the view. So yes, it was not as convenient, and I understand that the convenience you quote is enticing, and probably why so many choose American. I'm just curious as to how many on here try to fly other airlines, since I've just recently begun to do so.
Another option is to fly Continental out of Love and transfer in Houston.
It does seem like this merger is taking an awful long time but the flights have been ok so far. I like the AW planes but the USAir planes are ugly. I hope they don't paint everything in USAir colors.
^Scratch that, I did some looking into it. The merger has been complete for months but the two airlines will maintain seperate operating certificates for the next 2-3 years until the FAA grants approval to combine them into one. So I guess we will see both airlines for some time to come.
Much as I would like to boycott AA, I am so close to the million-mile mark of permanent Gold Elite status that I just can't.
A few years ago, I flew America West as a cheap alternative to PHX, LAX, LAS,ONT and even SFO. Got enough miles for a few free trips. Finally their frequent PHX stops ( I would try for Vegas) and changes got to me. However I got to know a bartender in Phoenix who would make an extra strong Bloody for me when she saw me coming in...
I though you were talking about DFW taxi times. My apologies. Your exactly right! AA needs competition as I see it WN will eventually win the Wright fight and have the law wiped off the books. When that happens American will match fares. WN will probably make Love its busiest airport (the have been drooling at this prospect for decades IMHO). They might violate the master plan and more airlines might follow suit. It would be a big fight if they wanted to add gates ect and cost is an issue not to mention the lawsuits that will go along with that but the Master Plan is not law. Anyway back to my point. When that happens DFW will benefit as well because the fares there on many routes will drop. The smaller markets will still be high priced because most of the other airlines do not serve those markets from DFW but we will see more options and more traffic. Airlines will not feel so threatened with AA because they will have their hands tied with competing with WN and other carriers. What needs to happen is WN and the carriers at DFW need to sort of gang up on AA and force them to drive their prices down. More airlines will come, more passengers will fly through both Love and DFW and everybody will win. Its insane that DFW is loosing carriers because the location is so perfect and the amenities are top rate world class! Wright needs to go away fast! Look at how well Chicago does with its two airports. DFW needs to realize that Wright is hurting them and taking it away could possibly mean that more people pass through its gates than any other airport in the world.
The problem that DFW has is that the Dallas city proper is no longer what it used to be. It no longer has the convention business, the retail business (it had more store space per person than anywhere else in the world at one time). The trademart isn't what it used to be. A lot of lightening that Dallas once had in the bottle has been let out of the bottle, not by political leftwinged nuts per se, but by Dallas hating weirdos who seem to have aducted the city. Instead of business being spouted by city leaders, people hear more about racism. Fair Park is crumbling and the "Southwest" Cowboys moved out of the city to be next to the Texas Rangers. Now the OU/Texas game might follow them. In no time it seems that the prime center of the DFW area, the city of Dallas that is, has become a rotten apple that has tarnished the whole metropolitan area. Although the metro train is one of the few great recent acheivements by the city of Dallas, I don't think it would take much to see another fright flight to the suburbs.
Plan is to have all aircracft painted in USScare colors by the end of 2006.
I dont know about that........Dallas does have a bad rap but the city will bounce back. Fort Worth's future is very promising.
^ I agree that Dallas has been greatly diminished over the past decade, but I see that trend changing already. World class restaurants and stores are returning to Dallas. The Northpark expansion will be a huge retail boon, as will the expansion of the West Village and the creation of Victory. Downtown is allowing for the creation of several small, home-grown, high-class clothing stores. It's not out of line to presume that the "fashion triangle" will return in the next five years. Victory will be a magnet for the wealthy, and so I expect to see a crop of extremely over-priced "classy" stores open there. Nobu at the Crescent and all of the restaurants/bars opening in Victory are integral steps to put Dallas on a top-tier level for nightlife. The Arts District is well on its way to become the regional (perhaps even national) draw that it was envisioned to be. Yes, convention business is down, but it seems to me that Dallas is well on its way to be one of those rare cities that can attract visitors on its own merit, not merely because of business or conventions.
Plan is to switch everthing over to USAir logos, paperwork, ect. ASP. Use up the present stock of AW supplies, answer the phones as USAir, in general AW looks are going away fast. That is the plan.......
However I still say the USScare culture is too ingrained and will kill the combo in the end. The infusion of cash the merger raised will only stall off the demise of the combo for a couple of years.
Quote from article:
Duh!For officials at D/FW, the departure of the airlines is the latest example that American’s massive hub is a double-edged sword, consultant Klaskin said. While it provides and enormous amount of traffic and passengers to the airport, it also discourages new competitors.
Boo. I disagree
“We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”
I'll have to agree with that. The labor culture at USAirways just seems to horribly incompatible with that of America West. I don't think they've come up yet with a solution on how to integrate the seniority lists of the two airlines, something that has traditionally been the undoing of plenty of airlines in the past (the Pan Am-National merger of 1979 being the worst case scenario).
I fly exclusively with Continental Airlines. It is the only US carrier I will fly. The first time I flew on Continental was out of Love Field when the started service in the late 1990s. I found the prefect airline and never looked back.
Why I fly Continental out of Love?
Love is closer to my house and I can get there 15-30mins before boarding and hop on my flight. There are no security lines, no check in lines, nothing. (NO LINES!!!) Continental operates everything themselves. I walk pass and always see the long security or check in lines for Southwest.
I can get almost anywhere in the world from Love Field with my bag check straight to my final destination. You can by one ticket on Continental to anywhere in their network, (Something you can’t do with Southwest at Love).
Continental fly to more cities worldwide than any other airline. Not to mention Continental is the only real legacy carrier left. They still have all the amenities while all the other legacy airlines have cut down to virtually no in flight service.
Actually, we just got back from a vacation to Tobago in the Caribbean. We flew out of love in December on Continental, and they checked our Passports at Love and everything. We were booked all the way to Port of Spain, Trinidad. (It’s to most convenient way to get there from Dallas). Once there we took a plane the next day ona local carrier to Tobago. It is almost impossible to get a direct flight from the US to Tobago. (Funny how British Airways and Virgin Atlantic serves it non-stop from London.) We had the most baggage at Love. (Wife seemed to have packed half the house). It’s a more business flight than leisure DAL-to IAH (Houston on CO). It was a 6 hour non stop flight back to Houston.
Also if you are One Pass Elite member you don’t have to wait in lines. You can check in at special check in at other airports and have your own boarding line at all gates on Continental. There is general boarding and Elite boarding.
There is a Pappadeux in Terminal E in Houston (take the elevator up). I go there when ever I have enough time in between connection and crab lobster bisque and take it on the flight with me.
If you get a Randall’s Remarkable card you can get miles for buying groceries at Tom Thumb and Simon David. We don’t shop at either store anymore because of Safeway. You can also get One Pass Miles with American Express Card on the Rewards program.
I have only flown on Continental since they started service out of Love and have never looked back at DFW or American Airlines. They couldn’t pAAy me to fly AA. I think all the majors with the exception of Continental need to tack on “No Frills” to their name because that is what they have become. Hell Jet Blue a low cost carrier has better service (IFE) than most majors. Good luck with the IFE on American(MD-80), Delta, and Northwest (with all those DC 9)! Continental has traditionally done better than all the other majors (2001 and beyond) and not cut its in flight and customer service. (Could it be that serving food, having IFE, pillows, blankets, magazines, and generally not nickel and dime passengers for every little thing, and having great customer service might make people want to fly on a specific airline). The fine folks at Continental are doing a great job,and hopefully the other legacies or what is left of the legacy carries will learn something.
"One of Dallas' strongest communities, Lake Highlands boasts a true sense of neighborhood spirit. Local stores reflect passionate support for Lake Highlands schools with school posters and signs. True to its name, the area features handsome traditional homes up and down rolling hills and charming, winding roads." --Lake Highlands People
We do it. I've even paid up to $20 extra per ticket to fly someone else out of DFW (in the past 2 years, that's been primarily United and Delta). This April we're taking a family vacation to Orlando and we're driving to Austin and flying Southwest out of Austin-Bergstrom to get the cheap flight and the nonstop on Southwest.
The positives of Dallas still exist, they just exist way up north in the suburbs and continue moving that way. The problem is that the suburbs are fragmented and don't have the unity to challenge the anti-business being spouted by Dallas leaders--dirty laundry aired on the national and international stage. The positives I see in Dallas are the Art District, the commuter rail and all the rebuilding in and around downtown Dallas. But I was shocked to read recently that the pumps that pump water into the levees to protect all of this, are worn out. People used to say that the city of Dallas was run like a business and it worked better than Chicago -- known as the 'city that worked.' The whole city was maintained, not just the area around downtown. Now the city of Dalllas reminds me more of one of those socialized cities up in the rustbelt. If you think the Dallas of today compares with the one that established the North Texas area for what it is, then you are in denial. This is why traffic at DFW airport is shrinking. Because of all the political bickering in the Dallas proper, UPS chose to move to Atlanta. The Mavs Cuban has had his players wear jerseys that say DFW on them, not Dallas. One has to wonder if he now has regrets about deciding to move his team to an arena close to downtown Dallas, in that the city proper is off center in the metropolitan area and this certainly isn't the best way to protect it from getting another NBA team--one to Fort Worth perhaps--when its population goes over 7 million. A recent example of rotten core stupidity is the treatment that Mr. Hunt got from the mayor of Dallas. As rich Dallas residents get older, they quit thinking in strict business terms and they start thinking about leaving a legacy to the citizens of Dallas!
Last edited by honestruerealman; 08 January 2006 at 12:48 PM.
How are any of the positives that you listed moving up to the suburbs? Obviously Mr. Cuban loves his location: He's getting an All Start game and hundred of millions of dollars of private development around his stadium, not to mention a train station for both light and commuter rail. And regardless of the Mayor's opinion, the city council gave Hunt what he wanted, so now we'll see who was right in how he handles his "part of the deal" and how much he gives back to downtown. With residential buildigns popping up left and right, high class dining and shopping destinations coming in, the average income of 75225 increasing still rapidly, I don't see how you can say in anyway that Dallas is going down right now. Pretty much everything in the city of Dallas is either staying constant or on the road to drastic improvement.
There are a ton of other cities that can say that, including NO before Katrina
Yeah that's the only reason. The one and only reason is Dallas. It has nothing to do with a monoloply at the airport, the high fares, or airport mismanagement. It's all the city of Dallas making this the third busiest airport in the country.This is why traffic at DFW airport is shrinking. Because of all the political bickering in the Dallas proper
That's absolutely assinine and stupid. Come back when you have something logical. I'm sure Cuban regrets building his arena in the hottest market in the area and perhaps state, amid what could be one of the greatest developments in the country within the last decade. Now if you want to tell me Dallas got screwed in the deal, I'll talk, but if you believe for one minute that he regrets that, then I'll send you to a junior high debate class.One has to wonder if he now has regrets about deciding to move his team to an arena close to downtown Dallas, in that the city proper is off center in the metropolitan area and this certainly isn't the best way to protect it from getting another NBA team--one to Fort Worth perhaps--when its population goes over 7 million.
Edith and if you think that the magic number for getting another NBA team is 7 mil, I refer you to Chicago, whose DT is on the lakefront and absolutely not in the center of the area and is the third largest media market. They have one team. And coincedentaly enough, the fourth largest is San Fran/Oakland and they have one team.
Last edited by FoUTASportscaster; 08 January 2006 at 04:56 PM.
Few people fly Continental out of Love that is the reason you wait in no lines. If they were so good and so many people adored them as you do then you would be waiting in long lines and they would offer more service out of Love.Love is closer to my house and I can get there 15-30mins before boarding and hop on my flight. There are no security lines, no check in lines, nothing. (NO LINES!!!) Continental operates everything themselves. I walk pass and always see the long security or check in lines for Southwest.
It's because you are flying to Houston (to connect) and that is within the Wright restrictions. Fly to their other hubs in Newark or Cleveland and you will be exiting security with your bags and re-checking them. I though the Wright restrictions applied to Love and not WN.I can get almost anywhere in the world from Love Field with my bag check straight to my final destination. You can by one ticket on Continental to anywhere in their network, (Something you can’t do with Southwest at Love).
Also not a fact. Last time I checked Delta flew more places than Contitnental and even AA flies more places as well. Especially with their codeshare agreement with tons of foreign airlines. AA is the only legacy carrier truly left. Continental went bankrupt. Did you miss that?Continental fly to more cities worldwide than any other airline. Not to mention Continental is the only real legacy carrier left. They still have all the amenities while all the other legacy airlines have cut down to virtually no in flight service.
Just because you have experienced poor service with American doesn't mean they are terrrible all around. People on these message boards that complain about AA service are a minority among AA fliers. Every flight is not the same and you cannot assume all service is crappy based upon your personal experience on their flight. People on your same flight might have thought they got excellent service. Its a matter of personal opinion. AA is the worlds largest airline Continental is not. That speaks volumes. WN has lower fares and more service out of Love. This is why they have longer lines at Love. Continental has a very small presence at Love.I have only flown on Continental since they started service out of Love and have never looked back at DFW or American Airlines. They couldn’t pAAy me to fly AA. I think all the majors with the exception of Continental need to tack on “No Frills” to their name because that is what they have become. Hell Jet Blue a low cost carrier has better service (IFE) than most majors. Good luck with the IFE on American(MD-80), Delta, and Northwest (with all those DC 9)! Continental has traditionally done better than all the other majors (2001 and beyond) and not cut its in flight and customer service. (Could it be that serving food, having IFE, pillows, blankets, magazines, and generally not nickel and dime passengers for every little thing, and having great customer service might make people want to fly on a specific airline). The fine folks at Continental are doing a great job,and hopefully the other legacies or what is left of the legacy carries will learn something.
Last edited by FortWorthGuy; 08 January 2006 at 05:00 PM.
^ we're the minority because most AA fliers fly only AA. Were most 'dedicated' AA fliers to try another airline, I would put money on their switching to that other airline. AA really has provided me with the most unpleasant flights in the past few years.
CO was recently voted OAG Airline of the Year for the 2nd time - something NO US airline has ever done. And CO is the only true full service airline in the US still... magazines, newspapers, MEALS, IFE, pillows, and blankets FREE in COACH. The BusinessFirst product has been voted best US business class by CondeNast, among others for the 5+ year running. And they have up to 10 flts a day from DAL - quite impressive. For the reason they use 50 seat RJs, see below.
NOT true... b/c CO uses 50 seat RJs from DAL, the beyond ticketing restriction does NOT apply. CO can provide one-stop service anywhere they serve from DAL. You can fly DAL-NRT with one-stop in IAH on CO. I have used this service to go many places outside the Wright boundaries. You are correct CO does not fly to EWR or CLE from DAL, but even to IAH, you do not have to reticket like you would on WN. And since CO serves more international destinations from IAH than AA does from DFW, this is a very useful service.
CO bankrupt?? um, not since the mid 90s. They turned a profit in the 3rd quarter too. Something AA certainly did NOT do. You can verify this anywhere, so I'm not even going to bother finding a source. Again, you are incorrect. Also, CO indeed serves more TOTAL destinations on their OWN METAL than ANY airline in the world. They recently passed LH and BA. You forget total destinations include the US domestic market, which is huge. And as for total international destinations - again, check your facts. CO serves more total intl destinations than ANY us carrier. Again, this is verifiable. Look at CO in Mexico and Europe alone. AA has hardly any presence in Europe outside of LHR. CO serves over 20 transatlantic destinations alone. AA does not serve Berlin, Geneva, Tel Aviv, Lisbon, Hamburg, Oslo, Copenhagen, Belfast, Bristol, etc. for starters. Not to mention over 20 cities in Mexico CO serves from IAH, which is more than most Mexican carriers serve themselves! Then you forget about their Micronesia operation - where they serve more cities in Japan than ANY us carrier. Did you know CO even flies to Australia (Cairns) from their Guam hub? Sorry, you are WAY off here.
CO does quite fine with it's "limited" presence at DAL. It continues to be the highest ranked legacy carrier. Try getting a meal on a 2 hour AA Eagle flight. good luck. you can't even get a free meal to Hawaii in coach on AA anymore!
Last edited by DFW75209; 08 January 2006 at 08:31 PM.
The largest airline DOES NOT mean most destinations:
Continental Airlines is the world's sixth-largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,000 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 151 domestic and 134 international destinations, more than any other carrier in the world. More than 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines, which include Aeromexico, Air France/KLM, Alitalia, CSA Czech Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Korean Air and Northwest Airlines. With over 42,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 60 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture. For more company information, visit continental.com.
SOURCE Continental Airlines
Where in the world are you coming up with that? Let's say that Love Field became as busy as Hobby... that would still be well within Master Plan limits.
It's difficult to envision any reasonable scenario in which Love Field becomes Southwest's busiest facility.
Yeah, let's screw the hometown airline that pumps millions of dollars into our economy out of money. That really makes a whole lot of sense. Flying Southwest I can understand. Enduring connections just to hurt AA, therefore endangering jobs and tax money in the metroplex, I don't understand.
American isn't doing anything at DFW that other airlines don't do at their own fortress hubs. Northwest in Detroit, US Airways in...(some nasty place up north), and Continental in Houston are all fortress hubs with little competition. AA is doing exactly what it should be doing...competing. Do you honestly expect them to lose money just so they can be the nice guy? AA is the world's largest airline and they are in pretty decent shape financially. You don't get to be that way by being nice and giving up battles for market share.
I also find that little fact about CO serving more destinations that any other carrier extremely hard to believe.
It's not about making American lose money, its about encouraging other airlines to fly at DFW. Do you have a problem with that? Of course we won't screw them over. They make most of their money on connecting flights through DFW anyway. I just want greater diversity there. No offence, but that last post sounded alot like a corporate plug.
And I may have endured a connection, but I had a little more space and more than my fair share of snack packs, which in my book makes it well worth the trouble.
Hard to believe, yes, but easily verifiable. Remember, the claim is most destinations served on their own metal, not including alliance partners. Of all the major carriers, CO is the least dependent on its alliance partners, choosing to fly its own metal instead where possible. For example, while UA and AA rely on LH and BA for connections within Europe, CO instead flies to 23+ cities itself and is adding at least 3 more this summer. While AA only flies to Tokyo (and recently Osaka) in Asia, CO flies HKG, PEK, NRT, and NGO from the mainland/Hawaii and through its Micronesia operation (wholly owned by CO), an additional 8 cities in Japan, among others.
Of all the majors, DL, until recently, had one of the weakest international structures. They were strong in Europe, but lacking in Asia and Latin America. They have recently added more cities in Europe and announced a plan to pass CO as #2 in Latin America. Even if this happens, they will still be behind CO in Asia.
UA:
United Airlines (OTCBB: UALAQ.OB) operates more than 3,400 flights a day on United, United Express and Ted to more than 200 U.S. domestic and international destinations from its hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C.
www.united.com
AA:
American Airlines is the world's largest airline. American, American Eagle and AmericanConnection ® serve 250 cities in over 40 countries with more than 3,900 daily flights.
www.aa.com
DL: (notice DL does not break out its own operations from its partners because it is the weakest internationally - compare DL in Asia and Latin America to CO; they're on par in Europe)
Delta Air Lines is the world’s second-largest airline in terms of passengers carried, offering daily flights to 505 destinations in 93 countries on Delta, Song, Delta Shuttle, the Delta Connection carriers and its worldwide partners.
www.delta.com
So CO's claim of 284+ destinations served on their metal doesn't seem implausible, when UA is claiming 200+ and AA 250...
CO's route map:
http://www.continental.com/travel/de...rld_200508.pdf
this map doesn't include the recently launched IAH-EZE (Buenos Aires) and the new cities in Europe starting this summer. COs EWR-DEL started a few weeks before AA's ORD-DEL flight.
The advantage IAH has over DFW is that since CO has less mainland hubs than AA, IAH is relatively more important in CO's intl operations. AA is already huge in Latin America, but unless a major expansion is announced that MIA cannot accommodate, I don't think DFW will surpass IAH as an international hub.
Last edited by DFW75209; 09 January 2006 at 09:49 AM.
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