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Thread: DFW wants to be the premier airport in the global marketplace

  1. #101
    Supertall Skyscraper Member psukhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texman
    I love how the Airlines arnt paying a dime for this. I say if its there gate is being refitted, they need to gather atleast half the money for it.
    NYC has to step and get the gates fixed or they risk losing flights.

    The airlines pay for it indirectly through fees.

  2. #102
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukhu
    NYC has to step and get the gates fixed or they risk losing flights.
    Surely, NYC will be the most popular destination of these new big planes. With any luck, DFW will get enough start-up volume from the high profile Airbus A380 trade that the airport will gain a stronger reputation as a point of entry. Once final city destination airports can accommodate the bigger planes, DFW will lose any advantage provided by its size.

  3. #103
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    Incentives can't convince America West

    By Trebor Banstetter

    Star-Telegram Staff Writer


    PHOENIX, Ariz. - America West Airlines declined an offer to expand at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport despite a generous incentive deal offered by the airport, because it would have lost "lots of money" in a battle with American Airlines, America West's top executive said Thursday.

    Doug Parker, chief executive of America West, told reporters that D/FW's incentive deal -- which offered up to $22 million in free rent and other perks, was very attractive. "It's the best [airport deal] I've ever seen," he said.

    Nonetheless, he said, taking D/FW up on the offer would bring his airline into a serious conflict with American, which operates a major hub at D/FW and dominates the airport's traffic.

    "We would lose a lot of money trying to compete with American Airlines at that level of service," even with the incentives, Parker said.

    Parker's comments illustrated the difficulty that airport officials have had in bringing in new carriers to fill a void left by Delta Air Lines, which closed its long-standing D/FW hub last month and vacated 24 gates.

    To receive the financial perks, an airline must lease between 10 and 22 gates and add at least 80 flights a day. D/FW officials have said that they're willing to negotiate a deal for fewer than 10 gates, but the amount of incentives would depend on the level of service.

    Any airline that takes a large number of gates would likely spark an intense competitive war with American, which considers D/FW its fortress hub, Parker said. America West's current level of service at D/FW is doing "just fine," he said.

    America West operates daily flights to Phoenix, Las Vegas and Los Angeles from D/FW.

    Airport officials are discussing possible new service with several carriers. One carrier in talks is AirTran Airways, which is the largest low-fare airline to serve D/FW.

    But several industry analysts, echoing Parker's thoughts, say that AirTran is unlikely to need more than one or two more gates at D/FW and that it is not prepared to initiate a major battle against Fort Worth-based American Airlines on its home turf.

    "D/FW is in a tough spot," said Scott Hamilton, an airline industry consultant and managing director of Leeham Companies.

    Said Parker: "American's competitive advantage at D/FW is enormous."

    As an example, he cited the battle between American and AirTran on flights to the Los Angeles region. When AirTran began offering low-fare service to that city, American flooded the market with cheap fares to Los Angeles and airports in nearby cities like Orange County and Burbank. America West was caught in the middle, Parker said.

    "We were doing very well in the D/FW-to-Los Angeles route," he said, offering last-minute fares of about $800.

    Once American and AirTran began to battle, however, America West had to lower its own walk-up fares to as cheap as $200. "Suddenly we weren't doing so well anymore," Parker said.

    America West, which has worked since 2002 to re-invent itself as a low-fare, low-cost airline in the mold of Dallas-based Southwest Airlines, has been among the few profitable carriers in recent years.

    But even this lean Phoenix-based carrier lost money last year amid high fuel prices and intense competition. In 2004, the carrier posted a $90 million loss, compared with a $57 million profit in 2003.

    Parker speculated that over the next five years, a wave of mergers will hit the discount airlines, likely resulting in just two or three big low-fare carriers operating nationwide.

    "We don't need seven low-fare airlines in the United States -- it's just too many," he said.

    He predicted that Southwest will remain a top carrier, and he was confident that his airline would also be among the survivors.

  4. #104
    Administrator gc's Avatar
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    Ouch...DFW Airport is in a bad scenario. The airport is married to AA....FW is married to AA...the airport and the city are married to The Wright Amendment...etc...etc
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

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    ^I agree... this is a no-win situation. I think the ONLY way to lessen the impact of AA @ DFW will be to REPEAEL the Wright Amendment. Sometimes you have to just 'shake it up' to get different results.

  6. #106
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St-T
    America West Airlines declined an offer to expand at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport despite a generous incentive deal offered by the airport, because it would have lost "lots of money" in a battle with American Airlines, America West's top executive said Thursday.
    That sentence sums up everything. This is why the Wright Amendment needs to be repealed, we need choice in the metroplex. I don't think any city in America has it as bad as us with an airline's monopoly except for maybe Detroit with Northwest Airlines.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  7. #107
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    ^
    In an article posted in the Air Tran poised to expand at DFW thread, it noted:

    American, 61 times larger than AirTran at D/FW, wants to put a lid on the carrier's expansion while sending a message to other discounters that it will fiercely defend its turf.

    Looks like America West got the message, and probably most of the other airlines, too. Good luck to DFW renting all those empty gates.

    Here's something to ponder. DFW Airport likes to beat it's chest and trumpet the fact that they have FIVE (count 'em) low fare carriers. AirTran, America West, Frontier, ATA, and Sun Country. Yet when you add up all the daily departures of all those low fare carriers, don't you come up with something around 30 low-fare departures per day? That's a rather meager offering from the so-called economic engine of N. Texas -- an airport that has nonstop service to 132 destinations and handles 57 million passengers per year. And this is from an airport that has been around for 31 years and been protected by the Wright Amendment for 25 of those years.

    Meanwhile, over at the insignificant (in the eyes of DFW and Fort Worth) Love Field, an airport that serves a small fractions of the destinations DFW does and an airport that handles 6 million passengers a year one carrier (Southwest) is able to offer 123 daily departures (soon to be 117). What's wrong with this picture?

    It's not like like DFW hasn't tried and succeeded in getting low-fare carriers in the past. The problems, once they get here, AA runs them off. The other airlines have been conditioned to stay away.

    And DFW loves to whine about Southwest's 97% monopoly over at Love Field. Big Deal. Love Field sees 6 million passenger a year. What about AA's 80% monopoly of 57 million folks using DFW? When you add the two totals together, AA still controls around 76% of the total Dallas-Fort Worth market while Southwest has around 9%. Just who has the monopoly here?

    LoneStarMike

  8. #108
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStarMike
    ^
    In an article posted in the Air Tran poised to expand at DFW thread, it noted:

    American, 61 times larger than AirTran at D/FW, wants to put a lid on the carrier's expansion while sending a message to other discounters that it will fiercely defend its turf.

    Looks like America West got the message, and probably most of the other airlines, too. Good luck to DFW renting all those empty gates.
    This points out how little AA and DFW work together to improve the conditions of travelers - the driving factor which keeps stock holders and tax payers happy. If DFW is protected from Love Field competition, then AirTran, America West, Frontier, ATA, and Sun Country as well as Continential, Delta, United et. al. should be protected from American competition.

    Those running DFW need to consider the message they are sending to other airports and air carriers, it's like, "Here children, I have a beautiful gingerbread house, come inside and sit by the cozy oven fire." Inclusion of International gates would help take the bite out of the AA, but it would still be too risky for hub expansion.

    The most profitable approach for DFW and AA is to focus on increasing International activity. AA must realize it's domestic travel profits through DFW are dangerously and artifically supported by it's near monopoly, and in the best interest of stock holders. To maintain control of its financial future, AA should actively manage the reliquishment of its DFW domestic service which consists of passengers forced to pay the premium priced service from a legacy carrier. There will always be a big market for the premium priced product AA offers, and DFW officials should be the arbitrator brokering air carriers to an agreement of the size of premium service market.

    DFW replaces the loss from Delta, properly priced travel providers (aka discount air fair) are allowed to expand at DFW, AA can streamline operational cost by focusing on its core customer and give greater attention to International expansion through its DFW hub.

    The physical limitations of Love Field will not allow that airport to "steel" more than 6 million annual passengers from DFW (considering that all potential gates receive maximum traffic). My gut tells me there is substantially more than 6 million annual passengers who are kept away from passing through DFW simply because AA's prices are too high.

    DFW also should recognize that many of it's problems stem from AA predation.

  9. #109
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Alaska Airlines starts service to DFW

    http://www.alaskasworld.com/newsroom...211_170211.asp
    Alaska Airlines Announces New Service Between Anchorage/Seattle And Dallas/Fort Worth
    2/11/2005 5:08 p.m.

    SEATTLE — Alaska Airlines today announced twice-daily, nonstop service between Seattle and Dallas/Fort Worth starting July 19, with daily same-plane service to and from Anchorage, Alaska.

    "This route opens up a new destination for our Alaska and Pacific Northwest passengers, as well as provides a new carrier choice for Dallas-area travelers," said Gregg Saretsky, Alaska's executive vice president of marketing and planning. "The addition of Dallas is a continuation of Alaska's strategy to selectively expand our network from Seattle and was facilitated by another carrier's recent suspension of service between Seattle and Dallas/Fort Worth."

    To kick off its new service, Alaska will offer introductory fares of $148.50 each way to and from Seattle and $244 each way to and from Anchorage that must be purchased by Feb. 28, 2005, for travel through Nov. 17, 2005. Alaska will operate Boeing 737 aircraft on the routes.

    The flights to and from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport are timed for convenient connections with Alaska Airlines and Horizon Air points throughout the Pacific Northwest, Canada and Alaska. Mileage Plan members will receive double miles on any Alaska Airlines-operated Dallas flight, through Aug. 31, 2005, when they register at www.alaskaair.com.

    During the past three years Alaska Airlines has expanded east and south, connecting Seattle with its customers' favorite destinations. Dallas/Fort Worth is Alaska's 12th destination added since 2001. Other U.S. cities east of the Rockies served by Alaska Airlines are Boston, Chicago, Denver, Miami, New York/Newark, Orlando, Fla., and Washington, D.C.


    All flights to and from Dallas/Fort Worth will be equipped with leather seats and Alaska's recently launched digEplayer inflight entertainment system. The state-of-the-art system gives Alaska's customers the choice of up to 20 full-length features including first-run movies and TV shows.

  10. #110
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    The rest of the article posted above:


    Details of the new service:

    <TABLE width=450 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=500 colSpan=3>Scheduled flight times from Seattle to Dallas/Fort Worth are:</TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Flight Number</TD><TD align=middle width=100>
    Departs
    </TD><TD align=middle width=100>Arrives</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#daeaeb><TD width=300 bgColor=#ffffff>Alaska Flight 808</TD><TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#ffffff>11:18 a.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#ffffff>5:08 p.m.</TD></TR><TR bgColor=white><TD width=300>Alaska Flight 810</TD><TD align=middle width=100>11:30 p.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100>5:20 a.m.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=500 colSpan=3>
    Scheduled flight times from Anchorage to Dallas/Fort Worth are:
    </TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Flight Number</TD><TD align=middle width=100>
    Departs
    </TD><TD align=middle width=100>Arrives</TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Alaska Flight 808</TD><TD align=middle width=100>6:05 a.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100>5:08 p.m.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=500 colSpan=3>
    Scheduled flight times from Dallas/Fort Worth to Seattle are:
    </TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Flight Number</TD><TD align=middle width=100>
    Departs
    </TD><TD align=middle width=100>Arrives</TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Alaska Flight 811</TD><TD align=middle width=100>8:00 a.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100>10:00 a.m.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Alaska Flight 809</TD><TD align=middle width=100>6:10 p.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100>8:10 p.m.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=500 colSpan=3>
    Scheduled flight times from Dallas/Fort Worth to Anchorage are:
    </TD></TR><TR><TD width=300>Flight Number</TD><TD align=middle width=100>
    Departs
    </TD><TD align=middle width=100>Arrives</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#daeaeb><TD width=300 bgColor=#ffffff>Alaska Flight 809</TD><TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#ffffff>6:10 p.m.</TD><TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#ffffff>11:35 p.m.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Fares shown do not include airport passenger facility charges of up to $18 (amount depends on itinerary), federal segment tax of $3.20 per segment (takeoff and landing) on itinerary, and a Sept. 11 security fee of $2.50 per enplanement (up to $10). Fares listed are each way based on round-trip purchase. Tickets are nonrefundable but can be changed for a $50 change fee and any applicable changes in fare. Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights or all days. All fares are subject to change without notice. Other restrictions apply depending on individual fare rules. See www. alaskaair.com for details.

    Alaska Airlines and its sister carrier Horizon Air together service more than 80 cities in Alaska, the Lower 48, Canada and Mexico. For reservations visit www.alaskaair.com. For more news and information, visit the Alaska Airlines Newsroom on the Internet at http://newsroom.alaskaair.com.
    By the power of greyskull!

  11. #111
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    ^This is awesome news!! It's not taking up 20 gates or going to really give AA a run for their money, but it's a start. Hopefully, this will open the doors for other carriers that are shying away from DFW right now to take a chance.
    By the power of greyskull!

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    What is really interesting is that AA and AL are code share partners.

  13. #113
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Great news! One time my family tried to fly to Seattle but AA's fares were like $600 per person so we opted to go somewhere else. I hope AA doesnt start there predatory crap again.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  14. #114
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    Well, once again it looks like we're getting the short end of the aviation industry stick. Today it was announced that both Pakistani Air and Air India are starting daily flights to Houston and are bypassing DFW. When will the officals at DFW wake up and realize there are more airlines on planet Earth besides AA?? Must be nice to actually have an international airport that has international airlines servicing it!!
    By the power of greyskull!

  15. #115
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Pakistan International Airline has been serving IAH for a while now.

    The Pakistan and Air India decisions are unfortunate, but not unexpected. For whatever reason, Houston is just more attractive to most international carriers.

    If you want to be optimistic, you could believe that the carriers are just waiting for the new terminal to open. heh.

    Now that we've all had our laugh, one of the primary reasons that more foreign carriers do not serve DFW is that AA's two biggest international partners that don't currently serve the airport would have a hard time getting their planes here. Qantas has long viewed DFW as a priority destination, but the aircraft to fly Sydney-Dallas simply do not exist yet. The 777LR changes that, but it could be debated whether it would be wise to use such an aircraft on a second tier destination. Cathay Pacific has similar troubles.

  16. #116
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers
    Well, once again it looks like we're getting the short end of the aviation industry stick. Today it was announced that both Pakistani Air and Air India are starting daily flights to Houston and are bypassing DFW. When will the officals at DFW wake up and realize there are more airlines on planet Earth besides AA?? Must be nice to actually have an international airport that has international airlines servicing it!!
    Maybe it has something to do with Houston's Middle eastern population. I mean, were we even a canidate for flights on those carriers? I don't know if DFW has that big of a market for the middle east.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  17. #117
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    Houston has a big market for middle eastern destinations because of the oil services companies.

  18. #118
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texman
    Maybe it has something to do with Houston's Middle eastern population. I mean, were we even a canidate for flights on those carriers? I don't know if DFW has that big of a market for the middle east.
    I remember hearing serveral months ago that DFW officals were trying to talk Air India into starting service to DFW. I guess that didn't go so well.

    I understand that due to the large oil industry in Houston, the city would seem to be a more attractive destination for international carriers, but I would think that given the multitude of major global companies headquartered in N. Texas, we'd at least get a few more foreign airlines interested in coming to DFW than Aero Mexico, Korean, Lufthansa, and British Airways.

    I guess I just don't understand how the 4th largest metropalitan area in the US keeps getting shuned by the world's airlines.
    By the power of greyskull!

  19. #119
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers
    I guess I just don't understand how the 4th largest metropalitan area in the US keeps getting shuned by the world's airlines.
    'Fly AA, Its the ONLY way to go.'
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

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    This is all a PRIME example of what a fortress hub does to an airport.

    Easy solution: FRIGGIN GET RID OF THE WRIGHT AMEDMENT...let a free market develop in Dallas and then watch what happens. AA will still be a major player at DFW but more airlines will come to play too.

  21. #121
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St-T
    This is all a PRIME example of what a fortress hub does to an airport.

    Easy solution: FRIGGIN GET RID OF THE WRIGHT AMEDMENT...let a free market develop in Dallas and then watch what happens. AA will still be a major player at DFW but more airlines will come to play too.
    I cant wait to see DFW Airport renamed American Airlines Airport and A380s fly out of Love.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  22. #122
    dallacentric drumguy8800's Avatar
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    Did anyone post the article about American Airlines pledging to move much of its north texas operations to love field if the wright amendment was lifted? I thought that was pretty dirty, but I definetly see where they're coming from.

  23. #123
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumguy8800
    Did anyone post the article about American Airlines pledging to move much of its north texas operations to love field if the wright amendment was lifted? I thought that was pretty dirty, but I definetly see where they're coming from.
    Yeah, its up there. And I don't really see where their coming from..they just said that to scare everyone.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

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    There is not enough space for AA to do what the have threatened. They only have 3 GATES at Love. And the city controls the rest. Go take a look at the Love Field Master Plan...it is very interesting. And, you can see for yourself how AA is using 'scare tactics'.

  25. #125
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Perhaps the folks at DFW airport should suggest Wright Amendment modifications which limit American Airlines to occupy no more than one third of the gates at the new billion dollar international terminal. This will give protection to other international carriers and support expansion of international travel at the airport which will not happen due to the slash and burn tactics of AA. The Wright Amendment was one exception to the industry deregulation 20 years ago which needs to disappear.

    I understand the airport needs to work closely with its biggest client, but at some point they need to stop putting all their eggs in one basket. There's no exclusitivity agreement, right? If AA is given the lease on most of the international terminal gates, then they should be using them, not just holding them so no one else can.

  26. #126
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon
    Perhaps the folks at DFW airport should suggest Wright Amendment modifications which limit American Airlines to occupy no more than one third of the gates at the new billion dollar international terminal. This will give protection to other international carriers and support expansion of international travel at the airport which will not happen due to the slash and burn tactics of AA. The Wright Amendment was one exception to the industry deregulation 20 years ago which needs to disappear.

    I understand the airport needs to work closely with its biggest client, but at some point they need to stop putting all their eggs in one basket. There's no exclusitivity agreement, right? If AA is given the lease on most of the international terminal gates, then they should be using them, not just holding them so no one else can.
    How much has AA leased currently out of the international terminal?
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

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    ^ I believe AA has leased about 23 of the 28 gates. Its absolutely, ridiculous what DFW is letting them get away with. How will the International Terminal ever get new airlines. Secondly, DFW needs to stop pandering to AA with the Wright Amendment and stop insulting our intelligence. Anybody with a brain knows that the Wright Amendment needs to end. I hope this goes to court again and DFW (shame on them) and AA get slapped in the face. I really do think the Federal Court or any Congressman with half a brain stops this Wright Amendment nonsense. I for one don't what to have one non stop option when I fly Paris or Europe.

    As much as this sounds cold and heartless, maybe AA needs to go bankrupt. They are really damaging the growth of DFW.

  28. #128
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARTMAN
    ^ I believe AA has leased about 23 of the 28 gates. Its absolutely, ridiculous what DFW is letting them get away with. How will the International Terminal ever get new airlines. Secondly, DFW needs to stop pandering to AA with the Wright Amendment and stop insulting our intelligence. Anybody with a brain knows that the Wright Amendment needs to end. I hope this goes to court again and DFW (shame on them) and AA get slapped in the face. I really do think the Federal Court or any Congressman with half a brain stops this Wright Amendment nonsense. I for one don't what to have one non stop option when I fly Paris or Europe.

    As much as this sounds cold and heartless, maybe AA needs to go bankrupt. They are really damaging the growth of DFW.
    There is no pandering to AA. AA paid money for those gates, AA will use those gates for international flights. Are you saying that DFW should refuse to let AA have the gates it wants, forcing them to reduce international operations, just so that there will be plenty of space for international carriers that, let's face it, everyone knows are never going to come? Are you actually proposing that we just leave gates vacant to spite AA? American isn't hurting international operations at DFW. That's stupid. Every international carrier at DFW means more connections for American. Without AA, there would be ZERO international carriers at DFW.

    If AA went bankrupt, there would be no "growth of DFW". There would be no DFW. The airport's one great quality is the massive, massive amount of connections available. Without AA, there would be NO international carriers and easily half of the airport would have to be demolished. Think about that the next time you fly Delta just to spite our home carrier.

  29. #129
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Perhaps if Delta had been promised one third of the international gates, they would have kept their DFW domestic hub in operation for the potential of vital high prifit international flights, who knows.

  30. #130
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon
    Perhaps if Delta had been promised one third of the international gates, they would have kept their DFW domestic hub in operation for the potential of vital high prifit international flights, who knows.
    I think your on to something. It could of been their 'mexico and south america gateway'. Probably just a dream.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

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    ^ O.k maybe, I was a little harsh about AA going bankrupt, but I wonder if AA would share its gates with a new International Carrier? I'm willing to bet that DFW and AA didn't even discuss that and if they did AA would probably bully and give any excuse for a new carrier not to join the International Terminal.

    Having one major airline monopolize a International Terminal is by no means positive growth. Hopefully that will change in the next two years.

  32. #132
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARTMAN
    ^ O.k maybe, I was a little harsh about AA going bankrupt, but I wonder if AA would share its gates with a new International Carrier? I'm willing to bet that DFW and AA didn't even discuss that and if they did AA would probably bully and give any excuse for a new carrier not to join the International Terminal.

    Having one major airline monopolize a International Terminal is by no means positive growth. Hopefully that will change in the next two years.
    You wonder why they even bother calling it 'international'. Does AA have to use the gates for international flights?
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  33. #133
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    All airlines do have to use the gates for international flights. AA wanted to break the rules and have a few domestic in the international terminal and a few international in the domestic terminal, but DFW refused.

    Airlines usually share gates according to alliances, so AA and British Airways will likely share, as they're both in Oneworld. Aeromexico and Korean could share, but I doubt it.

    An airline monopolizing an airport is not uncommon. It's called having a hub. Detroit, Atlanta, St. Louis, and lots of other cities around the world are in the exact same position DFW is in. American is not some evil company that has invented some terrible, mean buisness model designed to screw DFW out of every penny.

    And Delta would never, ever have stayed at DFW. They could have promised them all four of the terminals. The DFW operation was hemorraging money, to the tune of millions. Delta used to fly international flights out of DFW. If it had made money, it would have stuck.

    Again, American Airlines WANTS international carriers at DFW. It does nothing but help them make more money when more people have oppurtinities to make connections on AA flights.

  34. #134
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F4shionablecHa0s
    An airline monopolizing an airport is not uncommon. It's called having a hub. Detroit, Atlanta, St. Louis, and lots of other cities around the world are in the exact same position DFW is in. American is not some evil company that has invented some terrible, mean buisness model designed to screw DFW out of every penny.
    Its not uncommon for a city our size to have 2 airports that can serve all destinations, not just one. Thats where the problem comes in.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  35. #135
    Federalist woodrg0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARTMAN
    As much as this sounds cold and heartless, maybe AA needs to go bankrupt. They are really damaging the growth of DFW.
    i don't think bankrupting the largest employer in dfw would do much for the region...just a hunch...
    "To be intimate with a foolish friend is like going to bed with a razor."

  36. #136
    Federalist woodrg0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamtagon
    Perhaps if Delta had been promised one third of the international gates, they would have kept their DFW domestic hub in operation for the potential of vital high prifit international flights, who knows.
    Quote Originally Posted by texman
    I think your on to something. It could of been their 'mexico and south america gateway'. Probably just a dream.
    this is info from my aunt who has 31 years with delta. she says delta left because they don't need two western hubs (slc and dallas) and a midwest hub (cinnci) with such close proximity to their home base/southeastern hub (atlanta)...their loads were not what they should have been to destinations other than the other hubs, so dallas was cut to save money in the hopes that they could avoid bankruptcy...

    also, draw a straight line south from atlanta and you will see that dallas does not have the edge that one might assume in service to latin america...mexico for sure, but south american traffic leans to atlanta...that is the reason that AA has a South American Hub in Miami...
    "To be intimate with a foolish friend is like going to bed with a razor."

  37. #137
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    ^ That is very true and to be premier DFW has to match service with Houston and ATL. I don't think DFW even has a strong Euro connection. I checked Delta and they fly to Rome, Madrid and Amsterdam directly from ATL. Unbelievable! AA doesn't even offer those direct flights from DFW. DFW officials should at least pressure AA to offer more Euro connections since they will dominate International Terminal D. Also, the ATL International Terminal is expanding to 38 gates. I guess they beat DFW again. Damn...we need to really get some of ATL's marketing executives and fire DFW's, because a smaller city like Atlanta is beating DFW which is 2 times bigger.
    Last edited by CARTMAN; 28 February 2005 at 02:20 PM.

  38. #138
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARTMAN
    ^ That is very true and to be premier DFW has to match service with Houston and ATL. I don't think DFW even has a strong Euro connection. I checked Delta and they fly to Rome, Madrid and Amsterdam directly from ATL. Unbelievable! AA doesn't even offer those direct flights from DFW. DFW officials should at least pressure AA to offer more Euro connections since they will dominate International Terminal D. Also, the ATL International Terminal is expanding to 38 gates. I guess they beat DFW again. Damn...we need to really get some of ATL's marketing executives and fire DFW's, because a smaller city like Atlanta is beating DFW which is 2 times bigger.
    Thats true, I can only think of 4 cities in Europe served by DFW, add more if I'm wrong, but isnt it Frankfurt, London, Zurich, Paris? Pretty sad.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  39. #139
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    You are definitely right TEXMAN. DFW only has direct access to those 4 destinations. Well, let me try to get on a positive note.

    Does anyone have any International travel plans when the International Terminal opens?

  40. #140
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Those four destinations are routes that most other airports would kill for.

    I mean, 33 international destinations served daily from our airport with new service starting soon? The place is practically shut down! I mean, why do they even call it international?!?!

    The DFW airport officials don't really have much say in what service they get. The airlines are going to serve whatever airport they damn well want, and nothing DFW says is going to change that. Atlanta gets more international flights because Delta decided to serve more international destinations from ATL. The people who run ATL had absolutely nothing to do with it. If American decides that it wants to buy a fleet of new 777s and start service to every city on the globe, then they would do it. If American decides to stop all international service, then they would do it. There is no putting presure on AA. AA and DFW are two seperate companies with two seperate buisness plans.

    DFW gets over 1,800 flights every single day. On average, a plane takes off at DFW once every minute. Doesn't sound too sad to me.

    Sorry for being such an asshole on this thread. I'm just on a mission on airliners.net and other places to prove that DFW isn't on the verge of shutting down and that AA isn't the antichrist.

  41. #141
    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    DFW may have an advantage during the next four or five years, depending on when those big Airbus planes start flying and how quickly other airports can expand to accommodate the bigger planes. Does anyone know which will come first, the big planes or the new big runways?

    In the future, DFW should see steady increase in international flights simply because the next generation planes will be built for longer flights. A plane that can get why up in the atmosphere for a long time will be able to minimize the additional flight time traditionally needed to reach the middle of the country versus the a costal airports.

  42. #142
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    D-FW becoming a major partner
    Area on pace to be 3rd-largest U.S. cargo market for China
    03:20 PM CST on Saturday, March 12, 2005
    By KATHERINE YUNG / The Dallas Morning News
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ies.50a6e.html

    Once nonexistent, the ties between Dallas-Fort Worth and China are growing closer all the time.

    Cargo flights between the two trade partners are multiplying. Trans-Pacific relationships are also getting a boost, in part through trade missions. Dallas-Fort Worth's total trade with China jumped 51 percent in 2004 to $10 billion. Imports of Chinese goods – particularly machinery, furniture and toys – made up the bulk of the exchange. China Cargo Airlines, Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport's first carrier to serve mainland China, started service a little more than a year ago with three weekly flights. Another Chinese cargo carrier may start service this year, said Bill Frainey, an assistant vice president at the airport.

    "There's a very untapped market here," he said, noting that North Texas is expected to become the third-largest U.S. cargo market for China by 2010. At China Cargo, freight volume grew so quickly that the carrier added another flight to D/FW in September, said Fuqiang "Alex" Shen, the airline's local manager. China Cargo chose Dallas over Miami, Atlanta and Houston. "We made the right choice," Mr. Shen said. United Parcel Service is also experiencing huge increases in its China business. Already, imports from China rank as UPS' largest international market in Texas, said Bobby Carter, its international sales manager for the Southwest region.

    UPS' small-package exports from North Texas to China from small and medium-size companies have soared 42 percent since 2000. Meanwhile, imports skyrocketed 974 percent. "The markets are there, the walls are coming down, but the infrastructure's not there," Mr. Carter said of the poor roads and other challenges. The constant stream of goods isn't the only North Texas-China connection. Last year, delegations from the Greater Dallas Chamber made three trips. Another mission will leave this spring. And in 2003, the Chinese Council for the Promotion of International Trade re-opened an office in Richardson that had closed because of a shortage of personnel.

    E-mail kyung@dallasnews.com
    “We shape our Cities, thereafter they shape us.”

  43. #143
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    ^Yet, when AA was awarded the right to fly between the US and Shanghai, they chose to fly from Chicago!!!
    By the power of greyskull!

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers
    ^Yet, when AA was awarded the right to fly between the US and Shanghai, they chose to fly from Chicago!!!
    Because AA serves passengers to China and not cargo. (well some cargo maybe)

  45. #145
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    I wouldn't be so harsh on AA if they just offered more direct flights to Europe. We shouldn't have to fly to Atlanta or Houston when DFW is just as good or better. Does anyone know why flights to South America are so expensive?

  46. #146
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARTMAN
    Does anyone know why flights to South America are so expensive?
    Well who other than AA serves South America from DFW?
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  47. #147
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texman
    Well who other than AA serves South America from DFW?
    Well, it's almost S. America, but Grupo Taca Airlines serves DFW from San Salvador. Outside of that, AA is your only choice for a direct flight.
    By the power of greyskull!

  48. #148
    Supertall Skyscraper Member texman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers
    Outside of that, AA is your only choice for a direct flight.
    You could sorta count TAM Brazil, but its a codeshare agreement with AA.
    "And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed."-"Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times Editorial, October 30, 1963

  49. #149
    High-Rise Member F4shionablecHa0s's Avatar
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    Note: AA chose to fly to China from Chicago, but they also own the rights to fly to Osaka, Japan. They're choosing to fly to Osaka from DFW.

    DFW doesn't have nonstops to every little airstrip in Europe because AA does not fly to Europe extensively. If you want to get to a smaller city in Europe, you're supposed to take their alliance partner, British Airways. Just like if you're a British Airways customer and want to get to a smaller city in South America or the Caribbean, you take American via DFW or Miami. The people in London bitch about a lack of service to South America and the people in Dallas bitch about a lack of service to Europe.

    The people in Philidelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Miami, Boston, Phoenix, Seattle, and so many other places bitch because their service to Europe is far less than our "limited" service.

    EDIT: Wow. I sound like a know it all asshole. Sorry about that.
    Last edited by F4shionablecHa0s; 16 March 2005 at 09:55 PM.

  50. #150
    In the O.R. Geaux Tigers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F4shionablecHa0s
    Note: AA chose to fly to China from Chicago
    But that doesn't make their decision right!
    By the power of greyskull!

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