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Thread: Margaret McDermott Bridge I-30 Bridge

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    TXDOT Margaret McDermott Bridge I-30 Bridge

    Now that the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge is done, its time to focus on the next Calatrava
    Last edited by Dallasite87; 04 April 2012 at 03:12 AM.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87
    <img src="http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1137"/>

    <img src="http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1138"/>

    <img src="http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1139"/>
    Wow, does that say the arches are 741 feet?

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    Member Dallasite87's Avatar
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    thats what it looks like, isnt the MHH Bridge around 400ft? Although the base of the bridge is around 453 according to the rendering so I guess that would put at on overall height of 280ish ft
    Last edited by Dallasite87; 04 April 2012 at 08:37 AM.

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    Skyscraper Member Double Wide's Avatar
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    I actually think this will be the best looking of the 2. The height and way the wires run on MHH are nice, but i like the way the 2 arches on this dont touch each other at the top. Are there any bridges in the world like this? What is it categorized as? An Arch Cable Stay bridge?
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    I thought that the 2nd bridge lost its funding and that TxDot would be primarily designing the bridge and that Caltrava would only design a pedestrian bridge that runs along side it. I had read that the new bridge would no longer have the arches depicted in the original design....

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo Z View Post
    I thought that the 2nd bridge lost its funding and that TxDot would be primarily designing the bridge and that Caltrava would only design a pedestrian bridge that runs along side it. I had read that the new bridge would no longer have the arches depicted in the original design....
    This is not the original design with four arches. It's an updated design with two arches.

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    Mid-Rise Member mdg109's Avatar
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    I hope this one has a pedestrian component.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdg109 View Post
    I hope this one has a pedestrian component.
    It will the city was able to wrangle additional money from the Federal government to pay for pedestrian/bike improvements. Its one of the only reasons the signature elements are still happening.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Are these confirmed designs or are these just photoshop jobs? I dont see any links confirming this is anything but some photoshop fun.

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    are those train tracks I see underneath it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientshoes View Post
    are those train tracks I see underneath it?
    I think that's supposed to be a reflection (in the Trinity) of the architecturally designed girders below.

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    Skyscraper Member gshelton91's Avatar
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    Cool. Well i hope the paint the connecting sturctures white like the bridge on this one rather then that cream color at the MH Bridge.

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    So. We're too cheap to use cables to support the actual road, so we're going to use them to support the little frontage roads of dubious necessity.

    Now THIS bridge is a farce.

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    Skyscraper Member Double Wide's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? this has more cable support than MHH.
    Cider is an amazing addition to the bars of America but it gives me the worst hangovers......

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    High-Rise Member homeworld1031tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigT3x View Post
    So. We're too cheap to use cables to support the actual road, so we're going to use them to support the little frontage roads of dubious necessity.

    Now THIS bridge is a farce.
    I agree, what a huge waste if the extra money is going into supporting a pedestrian span. No one is going to use it. While an extension of this logic would support the conclusion that supporting the main span with the arches is also a waste, at least the main span will be trafficked.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    I still haven't seen any confirmation that this is the bridge design. Those pics posted above appear to be photoshoped versions of the old bridge design renderings. If the bridge design was out I would expect there would be some news about its release.

    I wouldn't get too involved in some kind of arguing back and fourth until you guys confirm anything.

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    Don't we already have a thread for this in the infrastructure section? I'd like a lot more context on these photos the angles are exactly like the ones from a while back. I'm especially doubtful of the one with the rendering of the skyline.


    http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Dalla...141353543.html
    Suhm said Calatrava's vision will be unveiled within the next six months, and will complement the Hunt bridge.

    "It's the traditional arches that he does, and it's probably half to three-quarters as tall as this bridge, but the arches are very, very long — reaching almost to the levees," Suhm told News 8. "They're on both sides of the bridge, so it'll be a very impressive structure."

    She said the I-30 structure will incorporate pedestrian and bicycle lanes in addition to the roadways, and it is anticipated that construction will commence about this time next year.

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    High-Rise Member ChampionDallas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87 View Post
    I do love the pedestrian aspect of the bridge, but it seems to be missing something. I know that the funding has decreased, but it seems a bit unpolished. Still looks nice though.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    I will move this thread over to the right spot in the forum here in a few minutes since it is in the wrong area. Keep in mind guys this was all started by newer members so it's possible someone is just trying to get y'all all stirred up. Pay attention to these kind of details before you get too emotionally involved in a new thread or new "News" posted by members particularly if they just registered to post something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Wide View Post
    What are you talking about? this has more cable support than MHH.
    Look at the diagram. The highway is supported using conventional supports. It's only the frontage roads.

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    ---
    Last edited by BigT3x; 04 April 2012 at 04:16 PM. Reason: double post

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    Mid-Rise Member smudoode's Avatar
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    I wouldn't hold my breath.

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    Nope its legit, or at least I would hope that TxDoT isn't just teasing us.

    Here's the link
    http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot...esentation.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyeagle05 View Post
    I will move this thread over to the right spot in the forum here in a few minutes since it is in the wrong area. Keep in mind guys this was all started by newer members so it's possible someone is just trying to get y'all all stirred up. Pay attention to these kind of details before you get too emotionally involved in a new thread or new "News" posted by members particularly if they just registered to post something.
    Well I've actually been following this forum for years but I never chose to wrote before until now. And this should be separate, dont just throw it into the infrastructure thread. This should be separate because its going to be breaking ground by the end of this year and it is deserving of its own thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87 View Post
    Nope its legit, or at least I would hope that TxDoT isn't just teasing us.

    Here's the link
    http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot...esentation.pdf
    This powerpoint explains it all

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    Plus I can get the inside scoop because my best friends grandmother IS Margaret McDermott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87 View Post
    Plus I can get the inside scoop because my best friends grandmother IS Margaret McDermott
    when is she going to start building?

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87 View Post
    Well I've actually been following this forum for years but I never chose to wrote before until now. And this should be separate, dont just throw it into the infrastructure thread. This should be separate because its going to be breaking ground by the end of this year and it is deserving of its own thread.
    This is a Transportation project so it belongs in the Transportation section of the site so thats where I moved it. It still has its own thread at this time so unless the other moderators feel it should be merged with the Trinity Bridges thread it can remain in its own thread.

    My comments about your time on this thread was only because since you haven't posted before we have no idea if your information is legitimate. I appreciate you posting a link to the presentation it helps all of us understand where your info is coming from.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhops View Post
    when is she going to start building?
    The presentation link from TXDOT that Dallas87 posted says construction start in Early 2013.

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    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    Don't get the alarm. This was posted a couple of months ago. Its not the final design, but was part of the pre-rfq to explain how the project will work. The main lane spans(2) are basically a free for all, get this bridge done however you want for the set amount of dollars and have it complement something like this(this = adjacent pedestrian/frontage crossings that will be supported possibly by two main arches). We just know the length of the arches and that they will be cable supported. We don't know how they will look exactly, and we don't know how the main spans will look. If a firm can do a big arch for the price, its possible you see that. But again, we just don't know what will be designed for either.

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    Skyscraper Member Double Wide's Avatar
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    In that power point, was the bridge only for the 2 access roads to the side of the high way and the highway would be its own basic bridge? so really 3 different bridges that look like 1?
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    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Wide View Post
    In that power point, was the bridge only for the 2 access roads to the side of the high way and the highway would be its own basic bridge? so really 3 different bridges that look like 1?
    There will be 4 seperate spans. 2 for the frontage/pedestrian and 2 for the main lanes. All we know is that the 2 frontage will be arch and cable supported, but not exactly how, and the other 2 are being asked to compliment the Calatrava design for the alloted money.

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    Thanks Dallasite87 for posting,
    but i agree with rantanamo, the date says january, and it wasnt supposed to be finalized till around april no? also
    they said it was going to be an arch, not two if i remember. It would still be an interesting addition, and i suppose
    it was just made to give the people working on the other things and idea.

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    From TxDot's Letting schedule

    From TxDot's Letting schedule

    CCSJ: 1068-04-116

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 30
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 0009-11-226
    Description: RECONSTRUCT INTERCHANGE WITH 5 MAINLANES, 6 COLLECTOR
    Limits From: IH 35E INTERCHANGE
    Limits To: WEST OF IH 45 INTERCHANGE
    Estimate: 114,200,000
    Length: 0.5 Miles

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 35E
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 0196-03-205
    Description: RECONSTRUCT INTERCHANGE WITH 11 MAINLANES, 2 HOV / MANAGED_LANE
    Limits From: AT IH 30
    Limits To:
    Estimate: 228,400,000
    Length: 0.8 Miles

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 35E
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 0442-02-118
    Description: REPLACE BRIDGES OVER TRINITY R; WIDEN & RECONSTRUCT 7 ML'S
    Limits From: AT TRINITY RIVER
    Limits To: NB & SB
    Estimate: 101,000,000
    Length: 0.5 Miles

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 35E
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 0442-02-132
    Description: WIDEN AND RECONSTRUCT 7 MAINLANES, 9 COLLECTOR / DISTRIBUTOR
    Limits From: EIGHTH STREET
    Limits To: SOUTH OF IH 30
    Estimate: $62,000,000
    Length: 0.5 Miles

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 30
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 1068-04-099
    Description: REPLACE BRIDGE AND APPROACHES WITH 10 MAINLANES,
    Limits From: AT BECKLEY, AT TRINITY RIVER, AND
    Limits To: AT RIVERFRONT BLVD
    Estimate: $42,000,000
    Length: 0.0 Miles

    District: Dallas
    Let Date: DEC 2012
    Highway: IH 30
    Let Status: Tentative
    Project ID: 1068-04-116
    Description: WIDEN AND RECONSTRUCT 10 MAINLANES WITH 1 REVERSIBLE HOV /
    Limits From: EAST OF SYLVAN AVE
    Limits To: IH 35E
    Estimate: 152,400,000
    Length: 1.5 Miles


    Totals for 1068-04-116
    Length: 3.8 Miles
    Estimate: 700,000,000

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallasite87 View Post
    Plus I can get the inside scoop because my best friends grandmother IS Margaret McDermott
    Cool. Please, ask your best friend to give her grandmother my most sincere thanks.

    Margaret McDermott is a shining star of Dallas philanthropy.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quixomniac View Post
    Thanks Dallasite87 for posting,
    but i agree with rantanamo, the date says january, and it wasnt supposed to be finalized till around april no? also
    they said it was going to be an arch, not two if i remember. It would still be an interesting addition, and i suppose
    it was just made to give the people working on the other things and idea.
    Well I see your point about April since that is stated in the Presentation as the month for when the design should be completed but on that same page it says the design is already 90% complete. I would think the design pictured in a presentation from January says Design 90% complete that its overall look would not change much from January to April.

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    Mile-High Skyscraper Member rantanamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quixomniac View Post
    Thanks Dallasite87 for posting,
    but i agree with rantanamo, the date says january, and it wasnt supposed to be finalized till around april no? also
    they said it was going to be an arch, not two if i remember. It would still be an interesting addition, and i suppose
    it was just made to give the people working on the other things and idea.
    It says 2 arches is what they are to plan for.

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    Oh sorry, i remembered reading single arch, but i forgot it was for each segment.
    since it did say about 800 ft, i suppose this confirms everything.
    from post #676 in Trinity Bridges
    TxDOT offers details on two more Trinity bridges, including Calatrava role
    By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER Transportation Writer mlindenberger@dallasnews.com
    Published: 11 November 2011 10:53 PM
    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...trava-role.ece

    ...

    The winning firms will design the bridges within budgetary and safety parameters established by the state. Each bridge will have four spans: two for regular interstate traffic and frontage roads on each side.

    Hale said the two-lane frontage roads on the I-30 bridge will be about five feet to the outside of the main-lane spans. The outer edges of the frontage roads will include room for pedestrians and cyclists.

    Calatrava will design 800-foot segments of the I-30 frontage roads. Those spans will feature a tall single arch reminiscent of the grand arch he initially proposed for the entire bridge — a rejected design that cost far more than the money available.

    The city is paying for the enhanced design on the frontage roads on the I-30 bridge with up to about $90 million in federal earmarks secured by U.S. Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson, D-Dallas, during the long years of planning for the project.

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    This might be captain obvious material, but has anyone noticed how the fancy high-dollar architect arches on MHH and this bridge kinda resemble the arches holding up our humble convention center roof?
    What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
    Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txdore View Post
    This might be captain obvious material, but has anyone noticed how the fancy high-dollar architect arches on MHH and this bridge kinda resemble the arches holding up our humble convention center roof?
    I noticed that when the Calatrava designs first came out. They are similar parabolic arches on the convention center roof and were needed to provide unimpeded convention floor space without support columns. 200,000 square feet of space, the largest column free exhibit hall in the U.S. A cable stay roof system was considered but there was not enough real estate to back tie the cable stays so 860 tons of bent pipe after super heating was used. So you may think humble but quite an architectural feat to provide 200,000 sf of convention space and the roof structure over 5 active rail tracks and the DART line. Pretty impressive.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txdore View Post
    This might be captain obvious material, but has anyone noticed how the fancy high-dollar architect arches on MHH and this bridge kinda resemble the arches holding up our humble convention center roof?
    You forget the city and the Trinity Trust wanted the name of Santiago Calatrava on our bridges they didn't hire him for his engineering magnificence. After all the convention center may have similar white arch steel work but who designed them?

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    Land Sea Lion jimmyx18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyeagle05 View Post
    You forget the city and the Trinity Trust wanted the name of Santiago Calatrava on our bridges they didn't hire him for his engineering magnificence. After all the convention center may have similar white arch steel work but who designed them?
    Everyone knows the great designer SOM & HKS... That's a person, right?

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyx18 View Post
    Everyone knows the great designer SOM & HKS... That's a person, right?
    True but Dallas is now the first US city that has Santiago Calatrava bridge so the Trinity Trust is excited to see at least one of their dreams come true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC_Club View Post
    So you may think humble but quite an architectural feat to provide 200,000 sf of convention space and the roof structure over 5 active rail tracks and the DART line. Pretty impressive.
    Impressive, indeed. Forgot all about that.

    If and when they do arches on IH30 and/or IH35, the association will increase. Wonder where else white arches will pop up around downtown...
    What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
    Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txdore View Post
    Impressive, indeed. Forgot all about that.

    If and when they do arches on IH30 and/or IH35, the association will increase. Wonder where else white arches will pop up around downtown...
    There's a bike trail proposed in the Cedars with a similar look, The Bellview Connector ....

    http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...ail#post460442

    http://www.dallascityhall.com/commit...tor_051711.pdf

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    The real incentive for that connector was the big multi use project that was going in across the freight tracks along Riverfront. They brought down the refrigeration plant, caused a big fire, graded the land and then the project died. Now you would get dumped in a fenced field.

    Is it really active as a project?

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjblazin View Post
    The real incentive for that connector was the big multi use project that was going in across the freight tracks along Riverfront. They brought down the refrigeration plant, caused a big fire, graded the land and then the project died. Now you would get dumped in a fenced field.

    Is it really active as a project?
    Matthews Southwest, the developer who owns all the land along Lamar street, already bought the old Alford property on the south side of the railroad tracks along Riverfront Blvd so I would assume Matthews Southwest would love for the bridge to move forward to connect his properties and make them more valuable for development.

    At this point that whole section of town is now owned by mainly one developer, Mathews Southwest, who has not shown interest in doing any sort of project anytime soon except what he has been promising in renderings for decades.

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    Apparently the groundbreaking for the McDermott bridge was on Thursday so I guess construction should start any day

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