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Thread: DTD: Browder Plaza

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    Administrator tamtagon's Avatar
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    DTD: Browder Plaza

    http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/a...ng-a-mult.html
    By Robert Wilonsky
    Apr. 2, 2012

    ^thanks for the scribd link:

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/87660408

    ...The City of Dallas has recently allocated $500,000 for park and pedestrian improvements to the public space within the plaza.

    ...The plaza is adjacent to AT&Tís corporate headquarters and within a couple of blocks of the Joule Hotel, the Adolphus Hotel, the Magnolia Hotel, Main Street, Neiman Marcus, Dallas City Hall, the main Dallas Public Library, and several large office buildings. The portion of the AT&T building that faces Browder is home to Einsteinís Bagels. The space is envisioned to be an active retail and restaurant plaza, with multiple vendors activating the space from early morning to late evening,seven days a week, most days of the year.

    ...the goal of completing reconstruction of Browder Plaza by fall 2013 ... Prospective vendors are encouraged to include plans for temporary use of the space prior to construction....
    Turning most/all of the pedestrian cut-throughs between the busy streets into plaza-form retail and restaurants corridors is a really good course of action. Pretty much left as pedestrian alleys between big office buildings, these spaces are all over downtown and many will provide the perfect daylight location for the niche tunnel businesses to retain their core customers, office workers, while opening opportunities to extend hours into the evening.

    Until the major downtown vehicular thoroughfares (especially between Pacific and Young) are reoriented to handle extremely high volume of pedestrian activity, the plaza-alleys can provide the environment.

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    It's about time. There are far too few eateries in that area.

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    High-Rise Member mdg109's Avatar
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    And retail. How about a pop-up Topshop/man, Zara or even H&M.

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    I'm feeling a Corner Bakery/Panera for food. Perhaps a small Target for retail. Just some ideas.

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    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
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    One problem is that the streets on either end of the plaza are terrible for pedestrians. Commerce Street in this location has poor connections, and Jackson Street serves as a high-speed alley. Currently there are a few empty large retail spaces, Urban Market, and Einstein Bagels (with no external door) facing the mall. Redesigning/improving the entire mall from Commerce to the library would help make it a more important pedestrian connection. Plus... add wayfinding! Few people even know where the these pedestrian malls lead and how to navigate downtown using them. Lots of potential here.


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    THERE IS AN EINSTEINS BAGELS OVER THERE AND I NEVER KNEW? dang now I know what's for breakfast.

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    Administrator dfwcre8tive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhops View Post
    THERE IS AN EINSTEINS BAGELS OVER THERE AND I NEVER KNEW? dang now I know what's for breakfast.
    Yes, added within the past few years. But you have to access it through AT&T's lobby.

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    Here's a rendering from the scribd doc


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    If maintenance can keep the vegetation alive and healthy, looks good to me. Let's get some quality eateries too.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    News on this, apparently so far the city hasn't found any biters but that's not surprising it will probably have to be tied into some larger project like maybe if the city can find someone to buy the Urban Market and develop this space as one big retail project.

    http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2...o-att-hq.html/

    Maybe you remember: On March 29 the city put out the call for someone to develop the plaza, with the city offering to kick in $500,000 in bond money “for park and pedestrian improvements to the public space within the plaza.” Bids were initially due May 9.

    But time and time and time again that deadline’s been extended — all the way out to July 11, per yesterday’s latest addendum. No one’s biting.

    The reason, according to a planner with whom I was taking this weekday walk, is because the plaza as it exists now is a road to nowhere. It’s like Rudy wrote in mid-April: “The Whitacre Tower to its west is largely closed to the plaza. And the ground floor of the redeveloped Dallas Power & Light Building hasn’t attracted much business.” Or any.

    I’ve left messages for Karl Stundins, area redevelopment manager for the city’s economic development department, but did talk to the head of the Office of Economic Development this morning. And Karl Zavitkovsky says the city is “not frustrated” that it’s taking this long to find an interested developer, and that it’s “not surprised.”

    “Stuff takes time,” he said. “We’ve gotten the CityDesign Studio involved in a lot of this, and the prioritoes are pretty clear. This is part of the Downtown Dallas 360 plan, and execution on various components, be it Browder Street or other pedestrian amenities like taking down the wall by the Magnola Hotel, there are a lot of different parties involved.”
    I have been wondering why they have blocked off the pass through to Pegasus Plaza from Commerce. People are always walking through there eliminating that wall would be a nice upgrade to the overall flow allowing people and crowds to spill out towards Browder street plaza.
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    Just kidding (80%) art_suckz's Avatar
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    Of course, patrons will have to wade through dog pee to get into the restaurant. Especially once the green space is gone... it's the only grass nearby and the entire block is covered with doggie urine as it is.

    Sorry... couldn't resist.
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    Supertall Skyscraper Member NThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyeagle05 View Post
    News on this, apparently so far the city hasn't found any biters but that's not surprising it will probably have to be tied into some larger project like maybe if the city can find someone to buy the Urban Market and develop this space as one big retail project.

    http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2...o-att-hq.html/



    I have been wondering why they have blocked off the pass through to Pegasus Plaza from Commerce. People are always walking through there eliminating that wall would be a nice upgrade to the overall flow allowing people and crowds to spill out towards Browder street plaza.
    It's a motor court for the hotel. I can't imagine they'd enjoy guests having to weave through pedestrians which is why that driveway exists in the first place: to remove the cars from the curb and pedestrians along Commerce.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NThomas View Post
    It's a motor court for the hotel. I can't imagine they'd enjoy guests having to weave through pedestrians which is why that driveway exists in the first place: to remove the cars from the curb and pedestrians along Commerce.
    I think you can have both the pedestrian path and the porte-cochere (they are planning the same thing for the LTV Tower). If people can see Browder from Main Street, they will be more inclined to check it out.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NThomas

    It's a motor court for the hotel. I can't imagine they'd enjoy guests having to weave through pedestrians which is why that driveway exists in the first place: to remove the cars from the curb and pedestrians along Commerce.
    That's why the city recently reclassified the lanes on Commerce to turn the north lane along the hotels into a valet lane permanently. I imagine the city design studio has a plan to deal with cars and pedestrians in this case.
    "Don't make the mountain your enemy
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    Supertall Skyscraper Member NThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyeagle05 View Post
    That's why the city recently reclassified the lanes on Commerce to turn the north lane along the hotels into a valet lane permanently. I imagine the city design studio has a plan to deal with cars and pedestrians in this case.
    That's disappointing. I know I won't enjoy that block being reduced to a curbside drop off.

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    Supertall Skyscraper Member NThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewoodhobo View Post
    Glad to know someone enjoys it as it's currently configured (a high-speed thoroughfare).
    Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

    More valet parking will only encourage Elm and Commerce Streets to continue as they are in their current one-way forms and prolong both street's much needed "road diets." The frequency of "in-and-out" traffic on the block will increase unlike traditional metered parking. Instead of a barrier between moving traffic and pedestrians with parallel parked vehicles, valet "parking" isn't any better than the other 4 lanes of active traffic.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NThomas
    Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

    More valet parking will only encourage Elm and Commerce Streets to continue as they are in their current one-way forms and prolong both street's much needed "road diets." The frequency of "in-and-out" traffic on the block will increase unlike traditional metered parking. Instead of a barrier between moving traffic and pedestrians with parallel parked vehicles, valet "parking" isn't any better than the other 4 lanes of active traffic.
    I wouldn't be too worried about it this is progress. Before now that lane was a traveling lane which means cars were supposed to be able to speed down Commerce right next to the sidewalk with pedestrians and no obstructions to protect them if one was to jump the curb. Now we have the city declaring a travel lane as space for valet and some public parking where there is not valet. Parked cars including the valet along the sidewalk as you suggest function well to protect pedestrians and naturally cause a slowing of traffic. As the road slowly reduces the number of lanes as the city shifts priorities things are progressing.
    "Don't make the mountain your enemy
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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Anybody know why Browder Plaza is fenced off right now? I can't imagine it's for one of those downtown yard sales.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Construction work going on now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewoodhobo View Post
    Anybody know why Browder Plaza is fenced off right now? I can't imagine it's for one of those downtown yard sales.
    I heard it was for a food truck park.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    I see we're building a mini Sundance Square now. Looking good!





    That Starbucks better open up to the plaza when it's done.

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    High-Rise Member mdg109's Avatar
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    ^Seriously. Side note, that Starbucks is one of the cleanest ones I've seen in a while.

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    that looks wonderful

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    So apparently Browder will start seeing some food truck programing from 11am til 3pm. http://browderstreetplaza.com/

    Finally a downtown food truck camp has appeared! Come down and sample some of Dallas’ finest food truck offerings with a variety of culinary delights from all over the globe, and not to mention some local favorites that you just cannot live without…

    Grilled Cheese, Pan Asian Fusion, Sliders, Pizza, Gyros, Sushi and NY Deli Sandwiches to name just a few of the things you will see literally POP UP in between the AT&T Headquarters Building and the Dallas Power and Light Building. With lunch-on-the-go offerings so badly needed for the guy or girl in a rush, Browder Street Food Truck Plaza is going to fill a long needed gap in the variety of downtown offerings.

    Additionally to the hustle and bustle of fast pace city life goers, Browder Street will also be a place for people to spend time and enjoy some fun. On site will be life size Jenga, art projects for the kids and picnic tables to chill and relax. On the horizon is some event programming with the potential of movie nights and live music… Stay tuned for whole lot of excitement coming in a small package neatly fit in a little street in between the buildings…. We will keep you posted!
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    Supertall Skyscraper Member muncien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyeagle05 View Post
    So apparently Browder will start seeing some food truck programing from 11am til 3pm. http://browderstreetplaza.com/
    According to the calendar on the site, it started on Monday... Anybody been over there yet? NOTE: Their site also has the WRONG location posted on their map. DOH!

    This sounds like an awesome way to get folks out of the tunnels and into the streets. I remember eating at Schlotsky's when it used be right there on Commerce. Wow, that feels like a long time ago...

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    Are there any photos of the completed plaza?

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muncien View Post
    According to the calendar on the site, it started on Monday... Anybody been over there yet? NOTE: Their site also has the WRONG location posted on their map. DOH!
    Are we sure it's the wrong location? I don't think Browder Plaza makes sense for a food truck park since they would have to line up on Commerce or Jackson. The place on the map, south of I-30, makes more sense I think.

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    Supertall Skyscraper Member muncien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewoodhobo View Post
    Are we sure it's the wrong location? I don't think Browder Plaza makes sense for a food truck park since they would have to line up on Commerce or Jackson. The place on the map, south of I-30, makes more sense I think.
    I'm pretty sure they're talking about downtown proper....

    Grilled Cheese, Pan Asian Fusion, Sliders, Pizza, Gyros, Sushi and NY Deli Sandwiches to name just a few of the things you will see literally POP UP in between the AT&T Headquarters Building and the Dallas Power and Light Building.

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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muncien View Post
    I'm pretty sure they're talking about downtown proper....
    Funny, I missed that description. Nothing worse for a new event than a website with conflicting info.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    To be honest people will be dependent on that map cause 90% of people will have no idea what Browder Plaza by name alone since it's been a dead zone for sooooo long. Luckily I'm sure word will travel fast when people discover the trucks and head back to the office and tell friends.

    I have some pics somewhere but not much has changed since the plants went in the planters in the pictures above. They do have foundations for what could be those wind turbines shown in the earlier renderings but I imagine each one is pretty costly and what would they power?
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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    THey have posted pictures of the food trucks on the DtownDallasInc twitter. https://twitter.com/DtownDallasInc/s...69737287626752

    CnQmz5kUMAAxAEv.jpg
    "Don't make the mountain your enemy
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    Super Moderator lakewoodhobo's Avatar
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    Oh, I didn't think the food trucks would actually park on the plaza. Unless they were made specifically to handle that weight, wouldn't those trucks damage the pavers?

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    Super Moderator Tnekster's Avatar
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    So is Browder Plaza a city of Dallas project?

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    Supertall Skyscraper Member muncien's Avatar
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    I with there were a plan in place to extend Browder Plaza further south and integrate with both the Library and City Hall Plaza. Any life in the area dies out as you approach the old Urban Market. It's a shame when you realize your only steps away from the cities Central Library, City Hall, Plaza, and even the Convention Center.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    This is true on the AT&T plaza side as well. Jackson on this end really is a back alley and is treated as such by all current landowners so its a barrier to continuing pedestrian traffic towards the convention center/City Hall/Library/City Hall Plaza. The best bets at this point are supporting efforts that extend down Ervay towards Butler Brothers Bldg. Lots of spots there with potential and along Lamar.

    As for Browders Plaza the positive thing is they can still come back and add a building in the greenspace later. I have to imagine what's really gonna need to happen here is something similar to Iron Cactus where Jos A Banks is gone and another restaurant takes up space with some sort of patio on Browder Plaza. You just need the right tenant who is looking to create an iconic space in Downtown that will draw people to Downtown in addition to the out-of-towners and downtown employees.

    Also has anyone seen if Pegasus Plaza is still blocked through the Magnolia Hotel car portico?
    "Don't make the mountain your enemy
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    man, seeing this in action makes the design of the plaza more confusing. The trucks are blocking half of the bench-height seating. Now to take advantage of the only seating in the place (which is all fixed, none movable) you have to sit behind the food trucks in the part of the plaza that is narrowing. AND the shade structure is both blocked by the food trucks and is located in the shadiest part of the dang plaza.

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    Super Moderator cowboyeagle05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastdallasson View Post
    man, seeing this in action makes the design of the plaza more confusing. The trucks are blocking half of the bench-height seating. Now to take advantage of the only seating in the place (which is all fixed, none movable) you have to sit behind the food trucks in the part of the plaza that is narrowing. AND the shade structure is both blocked by the food trucks and is located in the shadiest part of the dang plaza.
    I am guessing they didn't design it for food trucks but I have a feeling they didn't design it for anything in particular anyway. It seems like it was just a this generations revision of the underutilized public space.
    "Don't make the mountain your enemy
    Get out, get up there instead" - Various Storms & Saints.Florence and the Machine

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