Victory Park: Camden Victory Park Apartments (Block F)
AAC Parking to Move for New Development
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/AAC...142685665.html
video segment says that they plan to reclaim the lots in the next two to four weeks.
Isn't that a different development than the one for this thread? Lot F is just north of the AAC and the one discussed on this thread is at Harry Hines and Payne.Originally Posted by Mr. Mojito
By my last count there was the Mill Creek 378-unit apartment project and the 151-unit development south of Pike Park. This would be another development with unspecified number of apartments.
Last edited by lakewoodhobo; 15 March 2012 at 09:40 AM.
Well that explains why the city recently approved splitting Lot F into two separate parcels. What they did was separate the ADA parking that is located right next to the AAC from the rest of the lot to the north.
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 15 March 2012 at 10:33 AM.
Ya, looks like a separate announcement - and funny because I tend to agree with speculators that it's part of the feud between Mark Cuban and Ross Perot Jr. I hope these two billionaires turn the rankling into a one-upmanship benefiting the public - like winning a basketball championship or contributing $50 million to a Science Museum.
The announcement should probably have it's own thread.
Fans annoyed they will loose parking. Uh hello we have a multi billion dollar rail system with a train station directly serving the arena. Get over it and ride the train and welcome to the big city.
Word
Oh I wouldn't worry about those comments that's just the News Media taking clips/quotes out of context to create a news story out of what really isn't a big deal. I bet if you ask those same people if they are worried about it they would take the train just as easily without a blink of the eye. And they wonder why they are struggling to attract viewers to local news outlets. Those who were quoted probably don't know what the story tells us that Hillwood is required to supply the same number of parking spots even if they allow this property to be developed. So its not even that the parking spots will be eliminated entirely they will just be reallocated somewhere else. I wish it would be in a new parking garage somewhere but that would cost them their profits of selling the property.
Agreed, this lot F stuff is new to me, what's going on? More development then?
Yup. But you forgot the fact that parking is free at (almost all) the rail stations and riding the train doesn't require one to fight traffic after the game.
More info from Steve Brown:Agreed, this lot F stuff is new to me, what's going on? More development then?
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/ar...e-for-apa.html
Parking is part of my mavs season tickets. Traffic after the game is never bad, there are two quick ways to get on the tollway, never taken me more than 10 min to walk to my car and get on the tollway.
Don't season-ticket holders have reserved lots, unaffected by this development? Or am I mistaken?
I was referring more to the "game-every-other-year" crowd.
hopefully its a development and not games being played.
It's kinda annoying to drive to the rail, just to use it. Say you live in Park cities, drive to mockingbird take the rail to downtown, then either transfer or walk from west end to AAC would probably take 30 mins, Or you could drive and be there in 10.
Actually, quite a few people use Mockingbird station to get to AAC. I saw that one guy from Free Willy who lives in town he was coming back from a Canadiens-Stars game last year, he got off at Mockingbird. If I am not mistaken that dude is a Parkie.
Tighten the female dog!
They don't run special-event "J" trains that loop back up to Victory after the West End? I remember they had those before the Green and Orange lines were in full service.
I wonder if the building will have the Schwarz vintage retro look matching the arena, or have a modern-retro look of Cirque....
Yep. I think it is now just post-game/post-event northbound only on red and blue, one departure only for both, from Victory Station.
I think you're right. From the DART website (which I probably should've just checked at the beginning):
Post-event service: One direct northbound Red Line train and one direct northbound Blue Line train depart approximately 15 minutes after this event ends. You can also take a Green Line train (BUCKNER or FAIR PARK destination sign) to West End Station to transfer to the Red Line or Blue Line.
Word + 1. We need to stop treating Dallas like a suburb and catering to those folks who can't stand to be inconvenienced a little. Was in Boston this week and folks here would be amazed at how difficult it can be to find a parking place anywhere in that city. That is part of the big city experience and we need to somehow adopt that mindset. Most big, successful cities have very little parking but somehow folks make do.
"We need to stop treating Dallas like a suburb and catering to those folks who can't stand to be inconvenienced a little. Was in Boston this week and folks here would be amazed at how difficult it can be to find a parking place anywhere in that city. That is part of the big city experience and we need to somehow adopt that mindset. Most big, successful cities have very little parking but somehow folks make do."
I'll second that. Other cities (Houston) look on with jealousy at the size and breadth of our light rail system so we should use it and be proud of it. Welcome to the new real Big City Dallas and good riddance to the sleepy old small town Dallas.
The A lot I park in with my pass, also accepts cash payments.
You can add Austin and San Antonio to that list of cities that wish they had our light rail network. People in Dallas can be so self-loathing sometimes and some never focus on the positive.
One encouraging aspect of the game playing that's likely the eventual development of parking lots A13, A12 and E. Seems like those parcels will really need a strong and revolving relationship with train riders. Perot/Hillwood is certainly motivated to deliver the best possible use of the land, and creating a pedestrian promenade that with retail, dining and entertainment venues extremely appealing to AAC event attendees will pull spending out of the arena.
So what do we think here?? Is this Perot just trying to stick it to Cuban and the AAC or do we think we'll see ground broken within the next 6 months?
The timing might be a dig at Cuban, but really don't really see Hillwood actively pissing off potential customers.... I think it's a combination of mostly demand for Uptown residential and Hillwood needing to show VP cash flow.
Oh; fair enough. Thanks for the information.
Are you suggesting that Perot/Hillwood are "threatening" to develop the parcel just to inconvenience Cuban and Mavs fans? That's awfully cynical, but I suppose it's possible. Seems like all parties (incl. the citizens and City of Dallas) would benefit from this project--and others like it--moving forward quickly. Too, given the (ever-growing) love Dallasites for Cuban--and the general distaste and distrust of Perot, Jr.--I'd seem a risky strategic move that could risk further disillusion with Victory's "development."
Perot Jr did lead the children of Ross to donate $50 million for the Science Museum.
AAC parking tussle goes into overtime
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/ar...-tussle-g.html
The on-going tussle over parking at the American Airlines Center took another turn Friday.
The folks that run the big arena in Victory Park are asking developer Hillwood not to close a 6-acre parking lot next door until after the Dallas Stars and Dallas Mavericks are done with playoff games.
"In communications to Hillwood, we offered some financial incentives if re-designation of the parking lots can begin later to avoid the playoff season and some major events for concert customers in June."
Real estate brokers confirm that Hillwood's Block F sale is a real deal that will bring hundreds of new apartment residents to Victory Park. And of course they will all need somewhere to park.
sidenote: I hope this new blog is part of the Wilonsky DMN shake up.
Doing a stunt out of pique is something I would ascribe to the immaturity of Mr. Cuban. Mr. Perot does not do anything that is not making money unless he is donating to charity. Like Michael Corleone, he knows the difference between personal and business and never confuses them. You know his agenda in every deal whether running an airport or owning a team. It is about the money. As Danny DeVito said, that is why they call it money.
I think its really just that Hillwood wants to get out of Victory for good as fast as they can but not without making some money on the way out. I bet Hillwood is willing to sell proprieties to developers so willingly now because they don't have a vision for the area like they did before.
Notice before they held off development so they could strategically develop high-rises on most of the property they owned. They would have slowly developed portions of the project in controlled phases like all big developers do. Now they are willing to let any developer with a check come in and build apartments and count their profits. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but it also leads us to why they are so eager to shut this parking down now. Their goal is get the property sold to a developer who will build something anything that fits within the zoning.
Hillwood lost a lot of face when Victory Park went down hill on them. There was so much press about how Victory Park was proof of this and that and how wonderful the whole place was but when the bottom fell out for them it certainly makes developers look like a failure and Ross Perot Jr. is kinda a important guy locally to look like a failure. Developers will always pick back up and move on but lets just say Hillwood has no intention to be a part of some grand vision anymore just flip it for cash and get out of there.
This is why I brought it up:
"To date we have not been advised as to if and when construction is scheduled to begin."
Hillwood says that "there is no timetable for the start of the next development" on its "Block F" property between Houston Street and Victory Avenue.
First Hillwood has to finalize the land sale and the buyer will have to obtain new planning approvals from the city of Dallas for the planned apartment development.
So then why the need to close off the lot so soon, unless you just want to be douche about it!
Because to sell it to the new owner they need to close the lot since it will no longer be Hillwoods property and the new owner will not be held to the same contractual obligations to maintain those parking spaces.
By "charity" do you mean also John Wiley Price?
Come on, "making money"? Perot Jr. certainly had a big assist from his father that Cuban did not exactly. Cubes is the money maker, Perot Jr. is just trying to hold down the fort.
Tighten the female dog!
I didn't mean to imply I don't like him (I hardly know him; the Science Museum donation is certainly comendable). But if one were to ask the generic Dallas "man on the street" which he "liked more" between Perot Jr. and Cuban, Cubes would win in a walk.
Point well-taken. I don't know either.
Why not? It's perfectly reasonable to write into the contract for sale that the land is maintained for its current use for a particular period of time.Because to sell it to the new owner they need to close the lot since it will no longer be Hillwoods property and the new owner will not be held to the same contractual obligations to maintain those parking spaces.
Mostly because Hillwood just wants to sell it and move on without a bunch of time wasting debate for fear of losing the seller to other faster moving properties in town. The seller might not want to buy into waiting on a sports season finals to start their work to develop the property. They just might want to start ripping up the parking lot as soon as its sold that way when ever the city approves their project they can start construction asap. Hillwood's goal is to sell the property to the buyer before he buys something else that has less paperwork and hurdles to deal with. If Hillwood can get away with shutting down the parking and still live within his contract with the AAC Management they will cause it makes them money and gets the property out of their hands.
Last edited by cowboyeagle05; 16 March 2012 at 05:16 PM.
Is Hillwood required to replace parking spaces forever? If so, its time expand the Platinum garage by a few floors. Looking at the amount of space lot F and other lots take up, they could forever solve this by adding 3 floors to each of the existing garages. Or no reason they can't do mixed use garages like you see elsewhere, that have developments built on top, and part of the garage is residential, while the majority could be for AAC or just area parking. It might actually attract people to the area, knowing they would have somewhere to park for free or even a small fee. Just raise the price during game times.
That's the problem you see a parking garage costs lots of money to build and I think Hillwood is done with making any sort of big effort with Victory Park they just wanna sell the land to someone else to develop it. So far that is all they have been doing with the land they own in Victory Park since it all fell a part. Building a parking garage would eat their profits they would rather buy some property farther away, pour a parking lot and build a sidewalk that connects to Victory Park if there isn't one already.
I'm not keeping up with this thread but you should see how far people park away from wrigley field
Those of us who live in Uptown and Oak Lawn are really VERY hypocritical about mass transit and chiding people who live in the suburbs about using DART. When was the last time you drove to Cityplace and jumped on a train to North Park Mall or the Galleria? When was the last time you went by train to Pizza Hut Park in Frisco or Ranger Stadium in Arlington? Actually we are the ones who get the luxury of reserved parking in the dense area of town and also enjoy the abundance of available parking in North Dallas. If Arlington suddenly removed a bunch of parking around Cowboy Stadium what would you do? The Mavericks and Stars fans are not just in Dallas. They do live in H-E-B, Duncanville, Tyler, Grandbury, and even Waco. Should they search for a train station in neighborhood's they don't know or pay $100 in cab fare each way? I think mass transit is a good idea. That said, I haven't been on a DART train since the Mavs left Reunion Arena and have never been on a bus. I would be a hypocrite to tell someone from Plano they should suck it up and ride DART. It's easy to criticize those who live in the suburbs when we have reserved parking garages and resident only parking where we live and vast parking lots where we shop.
Or took the 21 bus to Knox, 39 bus to Cedar Springs/Oaklawn, or 54 bus to Henderson restaurant/bar area? All three buses have lines that are within 5 minute walk of homes of 90% of Uptown residents. When I ride those buses I see a lot of people in security guard uniforms, fast food blouses, low level medical aide uniforms, and assorted teenagers, not your Uptown residents. Other people are too cool to ride the buses. Yet people here scream at Arlington for not having the buses that they do not ride here in Dallas, ridiculing the Arlington reasoning that few residents will ride them.
1999 I do not see how it's hypocritical. We in the 'burbs also have reserved parking much like yourself, it's called the garage. So no, it's not hypocritical for you a resident in an urban area having a reserved spot. Us folks in the 'burbs aren't exactly sharing our garage and we do not like it when other people park in front of our home.
Tighten the female dog!
Do you have to have people towed out of your garage very often? The fact is the parking in Uptown is a very valuable and limited commodity, multi-level parking garages are not cheap to build. Parking is getting squeezed here and it is negatively effecting the neighborhood.
The reality is people will drive to Uptown and we are running out of places to put them. This is bad and starting to become dangerous. I don't think many residents of Uptown are aware of the problem it is becoming because they don't have to personally worry about it. Yet.
The problem will fix itself. The bridge and tunnel crowd will have a harder and harder time finding parking in Uptown. Eventually they will give up and you and other Uptown residents will enjoy your neighborhood.
We will take the train to the Mavs game it's okay. Just like today thousands of suburbanites took to DART for the parade.
Tighten the female dog!
don't care who has to go there. There is NOTHING unique about the metroplex or the AAC that anyone in another city doesn't deal with. Of course Hillwood doesn't want to deal with it, but they are still under contractual obligation to provide spots. Leave it open until the seasons are up(why would this cost them any money?) or create a new lot. I swear, the older I get, the more petty the problems in this city seem.
The delay might cost them the sale of the property to the company who wants to develop it. That third party company might instead buy some other land somewhere else downtown if Hillwood can not sell the land to them on a certain schedule they have set to get this done. The economy is a churning and time is money.
I want to be clear though personally I think Hillwood is just trying to rush through and hope they can skirt by without having to worry about the parking till after the property is sold. Their contract with the city and AAC suggests otherwise though.
I understand why people are upset that parking will become more limited at AAC, but I hope this goes through. It's not like there will never be more parking at AAC if this happens, in the future a new parking garage may go up sometime
I'll be glad when all the VP surface lots are gone.
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