DART Parking: Still free, for now

[RobertB]

Interesting item in the DMN blog (which kindly links back to this forum):

Pay to park at DART? Not any time soon
7:57 AM Wed, Aug 13, 2008
Michael Lindenberger
http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/pay-to-park-at-dart-not-any-ti.html

Is DART going to begin charging to park at its rail stations? Television reports are saying the board is considering doing just that, so we thought we'd give you a bit of context -- especially since DART promised just last week to keep its fares steady in the short term even in the face of rising fuel prices.

The short answer is this: Maybe someday, but probably not any time soon, the agency says.

Here's the skinny. With ridership up on its buses and trains, some of DART's parking lots are full. You know that if you've tried to find a space any time recently. Some DART members would like to find a way to discourage residents from cities that aren't from a DART-member city from parking in its lots, leaving spaces for riders who do live in member cities.

That's not an easy proposition. For one thing, many who lives outside of DART's member cities still shop in cities that are members, and therefore pay their sales taxes just like everyone else. And for another, figuring out where each driver is from when they enter the parking lot isn't so easy, either. (You can find that discussion here, in the board minutes, on page 15.)

So before they decide whether to ask the Legislature for permission to start charging some customers and not others, some DART members wanted the 411 on the parking situation as it stands now. That's what they got Tuesday at a committee meeting.
Follow the link above for the rest of the entry, including the link to the board minutes .pdf (which I haven't had a chance to read yet).

I didn't realize that DART would have to ask Austin for permission to charge for parking. That certainly throws a wrench into any plans to make sales-tax freeloaders (like me in Mesquite) pay to use the park-and-ride. DART already has a plate full of requests for Austin lawmakers, and they won't want to clutter up the picture. And the blog writer goes on to note that increased prices mean fewer riders -- if it costs $5 to park and $5 to ride, then you've just reached my threshhold for whether the bus saves me money.

I still think DART should go for a "loyalty card" system, though, as noted in another thread -- card holders get a discounted fare (after the next fare increase), and member city residents get the card for free.

[dfwcre8tive]

DART to discuss new law that lets it charge varied parking rates
9:17 AM Tue, Jun 09, 2009
Michael Lindenberger/Reporter
http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/06/dart-to-discuss-new-law-that-l.html

Today at a committee meeting of its board of directors, DART will discuss a new law that has been signed by the Governor giving the agency authority to charge different users different rates for parking at its various lots.

The revenue committee will discuss the new law, SB408 SB405, at 3 p.m., though no action is expected. Basically, the new law would let DART charge drivers from non-member cities more to use the lots. This will be closely watched in Plano, where the city council has been mulling whether to develop a 400-space lot near the Parker Road Station for additional parking. Previously, DART has been standoffish to the idea, noting that while the city could charge higher fees for residents of cities that don't participate in DART, it could not.

The new law changes that, though whether it's going to change DART's attitude toward the Plano proposal, and the city's hope that DART or the Regional Transportation Council will help pay some of the ancillary development costs, is not yet clear.

Update: A question from the comments below: How would DART know who was from where? That's part of the discussion this afternoon, says DART spokesman Morgan Lyons, but as I point out below, previously DART has kicked around the idea of using a toll-tag like item that would be available only for member city residents. Others would have to buy daily or monthly passes, perhaps. We'll know more later today.

...

[saxman66]

How about charge for long term parking. Right now overnight parking is not allowed and understandibly so. Probably keeps some people from parking at Centreport for free and taking the free bus to the airport and go fly somewhere for a few days. But I bet they could make an overnight parking section in some of the lots for people who want to do just that. I bet that would take care of the revenue they want.

They do this in Atlanta I know. Near the airport was $7 at the Marta station but on the other side of town it was $4 per day.

[LH_Newbie]

Update: A question from the comments below: How would DART know who was from where?

If you're parking a car, you had better have a valid drivers license... that'd be the easy way to tell where people are from. The big problem I see is that there isn't just one entrance to the parking lots and retrofitting them with booths could put a big log-jam to filling those lots.


How about charge for long term parking.

I totally agree, especially after the link into DFW is complete.

Luckily for me - by that time, the Lake Highlands station will be completed, so I could actually walk 10 minutes to the rail station. I can't tell you how excited I am to be slowly moving toward light rail to the airport... I don't travel for work that much, but this will totally make it more convenient. I absolutely hate having to drive to DFW and find parking.

<rant>
I get a kick out of the new "valet" service there, too. They park your car like 20 feet from where you drop it off. Totally retarted and done the way all valet services in the DFW area are. Valet here is one of my big pet peeves. Where I grew up, Valet services typically had a lot down the street they parked cars in, so if you parked yourself, there were still some parking spots close to the entrance. We didn't punish the non-valet folks(aka the PAYING customers) by making them park FARTHER away than the paid valet folks. I just don't get it.
</rant>

[mjblazin]

People using valet are paying more for the same lot. Proximity is part of the added value. When I drove to DFW, I also found it irksome. I solved the problem by not driving to DFW.

[dfwcre8tive]

DART committee to vote to test paid parking at Parker Road, Carrollton stations
9:13 AM Tue, Jun 22, 2010z
Michael Lindenberger/Reporter
http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/06/dart-committee-to-vote-to-test.html

DART board members will vote on a proposal to test paid parking at two of its lots this afternoon, a significant shift away from its long-held philosophy that parking should be free in order to encourage as many riders to choose DART as possible.

The pilot program will occur at the Parker Road Station on the Red Line in Plano and at the new Carrollton/Frankford Road Station on the Green Line, which opens in December. The two stops are at the northern terminus of each line.

Under the pilot program, parking will remain free for residents of DART's 13 member cities, who would acquire a free parking pass upon showing proof of residency. Non-residents would pay $2 per day. The charge would be $4 for special events.

In addition, both residents and non-residents would be able to pay $60 for a reserved parking spot good for 28 days.

Finally, the policy would charge $5 for patrons who park over night, an idea that DART wants to test in case its rail service to the airport becomes popular once the Orange Line is complete to D/FW International Airport in 2013.

...

[electricron]

Here's how I think DART should take advantage of the new law.

Extend the DART light rail lines out into the first non-member city, where parking fees are charged for the entire parking lot. Simply use the parking fees from stations in non member cities to substitute for sales tax revenues from that city. The parking lots at the new end of line stations can be designed and built with parking fees from scratch.

I doubt few member city patrons will want to go out of their way to use that station, but patrons from that specific city would be willing to pay the parking fees. Shucks, that threat of paying parking fees might even convince some non member cities to join DART.

Otherwise, only charge parking fees at the existing end of line stations, where patrons from non member cities park today, to discourage them from driving past their pay park & ride lots.

Patrons from member cities should have buses, alternate means, to get to and from their railroad stations. Without good bus service locally, parking fees shouldn't be applied in member city park & ride lots.

[RobertB]

@electricron: That sounds like a great idea! Of course, it's not an idea you could implement without having some sort of answer to the question, "will enough people park". DART's plan, though, is the first step in asking the question.

It would take a lot of parking revenue to pay for an LRT line and station, but maybe if the non-member city (coughcoughMesquitecough) pays for the initial capital expenditure, the parking fees could pay for the operations -- subject to a floor below which the city would have to pay the costs. In fact, perhaps the city should be responsible for setting the parking price and paying DART an agreed rate for service. A suburb might even decide to lower their parking rate to attract commuters to the lot (on the assumption that they'll stop for donuts & coffee on the way there and a casual dinner on the way home).

I'm especially happy about the $5 overnight parking -- though I wonder how DART would handle a third-shift worker who parks at 8pm and goes home at 5 in the morning?

[mjblazin]

Is the idea that parking fees could pay for expansion? I don't think that calculation works.

The idea should be to stop the big outlays for expansion, keep operating costs the same or lower, and expand ability to reap revenue from existing operations.

Additional expansion won't happen without secular economic changes, i.e., no time soon.

[tamtagon]

DART should collect this parking fee from non-member city residents at all DART parking facilities.

[electricron]

Is the idea that parking fees could pay for expansion? I don't think that calculation works.
The idea should be to stop the big outlays for expansion, keep operating costs the same or lower, and expand ability to reap revenue from existing operations. Additional expansion won't happen without secular economic changes, i.e., no time soon.

Let's suggest a $1/hour parking fee at the park & ride lots. From the deepest and dark outer rim of surburbs, that's an hour ride to downtown Dallas and another hour ride back. So, for a regular 8 hour workday, DART should collect $10/day in parking fees. That's about twice DART's fares, or about the same as a round trip fare. Each rider effectively pays more than twice as much in fares and fees.

From http://www.dart.org/about/aboutdart.asp
FY09 DART light rail subsidy per passenger is $3.41....All DART needs to do is collect twice that ($7/day) in parking fees to break even. (Round trip means two passenger boardings).

The cost of extending the red line north 5 miles into Allen is a quarter as much as building one brand new line 20 miles. One can even install fare boundary zones between DART service area (member cities) and non service area (non member cities) like DART has and will do with TRE and DCTA, which again effectively doubles the price collected in fares, reducing the subsidy further. Add both fare boundaries and parking fees, DART light rail could even earn a profit.

[sdub]

I told a friend of mine who has lived in New York since high school that I was now riding DART to work. His first question was if I had to pay for parking. I think two things are inevitable, but the timing will be based on gas prices. Everyone will eventually have to pay for parking and parts of those lots will get sold off for development.

[mjblazin]

People are not going to pay $7/day to park in Plano plus $10/day to ride the train. They will either drive downtown and park in a $5 lot or car pool to the parking. More importantly no one will lend you money based on that calculation with all its obvious risks. If no one lends you money, you don't build.

What's in the $3.41? Is it just ops expenses or does it include amortization/depreciatrion of purchased assets plus interest expenses?

100 car lot generates $700/day = $182K/year (maximum use every weekday). Subtract the 35K with benefits for someone to staff it. Subtract depreciation on barriers, ticket machines, surveillance and it's probably closer to $130K per year. You don't build a railroad on an extra $130K per year.

If parking would solve the problem, DART would have done it long ago. It's just a way to eke out a few more dollars.

[TheMapman]

Paying for parking would never alone be enough to pay for an extension. This is another nice potential revenue stream for DART, but it's a small piece of the pie.

[dfwcre8tive]

http://www.dart.org/about/fy11businessplan080610.pdf

"A Paid Parking Demonstration Project to charge non-service area residents at Parker Road Station and North Carrollton/Frankford Station will be implemented in 2011"

[saxman66]

http://www.dart.org/about/fy11businessplan080610.pdf

"A Paid Parking Demonstration Project to charge non-service area residents at Parker Road Station and North Carrollton/Frankford Station will be implemented in 2011"

For some reason I couldn't get to the link so I couldn't read it.
So whats to stop people from simply going to another station to park? I probably will too since I'm don't live in a DART city. I really don't like the idea of paying to park at stations. Maybe long term parking but not short term.

[dfwcre8tive]

DART hosting community meeting in Plano tonight on light rail paid parking
05:43 PM CDT on Tuesday, August 17, 2010
By MARK NORRIS / The Dallas Morning News
mnorris@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/081810dnmetdartparking.62f5cead.html

DART is hosting the first of two planned community meetings to discuss a proposed paid parking plan for two light rail stations tonight in Plano.

The proposal would charge riders who live outside of the DART service area to park at the Red Line's Parker Road Station in Plano and the soon-to-open North Carrollton/Frankford Road Station on the Green Line.

The pilot program would be in effect for a year, and residents of DART member cities would be eligible for DART-issued parking tags for their vehicles.

Tonight's meeting begins at 6:30 p.m. in Training Room A at Plano City Hall. The second meeting is scheduled for 6:30 p.m. Thursday at at The Plaza Arts Center in Carrollton.

A public hearing on the proposal is scheduled for 6:30 p.m. on Aug. 24 in the DART Board Room.

Paying to park

DART's proposed fee structure for parking at light rail stations:

Daily parking: Free with DART tag; $2 without tag

Daily event parking: Free with DART tag; $4 without tag

Long term parking: $5 per calendar day, with or without DART tag

28-day unreserved parking: Free with DART tag; $40 without tag

28-day reserved parking: $60 with or without DART tag

[LH_Newbie]

$5/day long term parking... that must be geared toward people parking to go to the airport.... seems steep considering you're still 60+ minutes from the airport.

[Alex Rodriguez]

I saw there was a subscription only article in the DMN today about paid parking. Anything anyone with a subscription can share?