West End: Founders Plaza | JFK Memorial Plaza

[CTroyMathis]

How does JFK memorial fit in plaza?
Downtown plans have skipped around a sensitive subject

11/27/2002

By HENRY TATUM / The Dallas Morning News

The plans are just what the doctor ordered for the west side of downtown Dallas – a sweeping plaza with fountains, dramatic lighting, trees and green space.

With the expanded George Allen Sr. Courts Building and the renovated Old Red Courthouse serving as a backdrop, the two-block plaza would boost downtown and attract more tourists to Dallas' urban core.

Dallas County officials, who usually aren't thought of as visionaries in the scheme of things downtown, have outdone themselves on the project. They told architects to think big when it came to designing a fitting plaza for the $32 million expansion of the Allen Courts Building and the restoration of Old Red. The designers happily complied.

But sometimes, a government has to deal with the past before looking toward the future. And that certainly will be the case for county commissioners when serious discussions about building the plaza begin.

One of the blocks that would be used for the plaza could be transformed fairly easily. It is the Dallas County Historical Plaza, which holds a cabin identified with Dallas' founding father John Neely Bryan and relief maps of the county. The Bryan cabin has been moved before and could be again.

But the second block in line for the transformation carries challenges and considerably more emotional sentiment. It is the John F. Kennedy Memorial, built seven years after the assassination of the president.

The memorial always has delivered a mixed signal to the people of Dallas and the millions who have come here since 1963 to see where President Kennedy was slain.

Acclaimed architect Philip Johnson designed the Kennedy Memorial to be a simple place of quiet where visitors could reflect on the life of the fallen president after visiting the spot where his motorcade was hit by gunfire. The blank walls of the enclosure, with a black granite stone in the center bearing President Kennedy's name, have seemed somewhat stark to many visitors.

The memorial had received only minimal maintenance until a vandal scrawled graffiti on the walls a few years ago and shocked the public back to its senses. The structure underwent an $80,000 restoration and was rededicated in 2000 – three decades after it was constructed.

Today, the restored memorial is more accessible to visitors – thanks to additional signs in the plaza. Gone are the days when Dallas did little to encourage visitors to view the memorial or the Texas School Book Depository, where the assassination occurred.

Now that the city is dealing forthrightly with what surely must be the darkest day in its history, how will the world feel if Dallas County moves the Kennedy Memorial to build a new plaza?

County officials have walked gingerly around the relocation issue. They have said only that architects submitting designs for the plaza can consider moving the memorial and the John Neely Bryan cabin.

I feel the move can be justified if a new plaza design would open up downtown. But the relocation site would have to be as appropriate as the current home.

Tentative discussions of placing the Kennedy Memorial at Fair Park or in any site outside downtown should end now. The structure should be close to where the assassination occurred. Philip Johnson was right. Those who come to Dallas to view the historic area need a place where they can reflect on America's loss in 1963 and the challenges that this nation has since faced.

Dallas County's plaza plans are exciting. They provide yet another building block in the revitalization of downtown. But county officials can't pursue this future vision without properly caring for the legacies of the past.

[freewaytincan]

Yeah, that thing is a legacy, all right...a legacy of ugliness! They should just tear it up. I don't think Philip Johnson would mind, honestly.

[gc]

I like the ideas for all of the plazas and renovation, but I do not feel that moving or tearing down the JFK Memorial is a good idea at all. It may not be the most beautiful thing to look, I agree, but there are many approaches that can be taken to beautify this area while improving the aesthetics of the memorial.

That area is one of the few places on Saturday or Sunday afternoon that manages to bring in visitors. Improving the area is a must.

[freewaytincan]

Or, as I have said before, move it to Harry Hines...a fitting tribute! :D

[Dallas Smokestacks]

Dallas is forever, with more or less vigor, trying to lure people back into downtown. Saving the buildings of the West End was a great idea, but making it into, for the most part, a generic entertainment place with an eye towards visitors, pretty much never anchored downtown as the place to be. So with this aim of "progress" and "revitalization" Dallas throughout the years has transformed itself into more and more sameness rather than encouraging any real diversity. This new downtown revitalization SCHEME probably won't do much, in the long run. Beautification projects can only go so far. It's what's in downtown--esp anything unique--that attracts the attention of individuals (and not all of them--some aren't satisfied until the downtown corridor resembles an upscale suburban mall emptied onto an "urban" streetscape).
My mother, once an aging resident of the city, told me of the downtown of yore (1960s & the declining 1970s for her). What attracted her most was the businesses that had been there (but there no longer) and the older architecture. Over the successive years, downtown became less appealing because it looked so sterile from all the demolitions and parking lots and spanking new unadorned buildings with all their suburban fetishist plazas.

I remember when I first came across the JFK Memorial Plaza. I wondered what the hell it was. And when I found out, it seemed fittting. This stark architecture is a testament, in a modern sense (60s modern sense) of what happened in the city of Dallas on that day in history. To want some more visually appealing architecture or project--well, it figures. American cities are becomng so much more "clean", it's unbearable. Why should a city look like itself (with it's odd pieces) when it could look like every other city making themselves into every other city? Bah.

[freewaytincan]

Exactly! Times Square these days is like f***in' Disneyland! It may be cleaner, but the character...the reputation...it's all gone. People just don't know how to handle real life. A side effect of the expansion of sprawl.

[gc]

Hey smokestacks you have some veryt good points. Dallas is not the only city that is struggling to revitalize the DT area as I am sure you know. I am also not a fan of turning every inner city into a "Disneyland" so to speak. AND saying that DT Dallas is sterile and ugly is an understatement.......torn up parking lots, bums, new buildings, NO greenery, small residential base, lacking activity, lacking character, etc, etc. These problems did not exist in major Urban centers across the states until everyone fled for the burbs in the late 60s and 70s. Anyway, you get my point. That is why I think we are all participating on this board. That is to help spread the ideas, energy, and enthusiasm required to help make Dallas (in this case) a more exciting and energetic place to live, work, and play!

woooohooooo.....I am done now.

[tamtagon]

I dont think people should have a warm fuzzy feeling when they leave the JFK Memorial. Indeed, it should remain 'simple place of quiet where visitors could reflect on the life of the fallen president' as Mr. Johnson initially designed. You know, memorials are not supposed to be jovial spots to have lunch or take a break from shopping. A solemn spot may seem out of place at this location in downtown, but the only more appropiate place for it would be in the middle of the road where the bullets hit.

There is plenty of room in downtown for plazas and fountains and such without moving that strange memorial. Visitors need to leave it with mixed feelings. If anything, the memorial grounds should be expanded to include the land around the log cabin and adjoining courthouse grounds. This would help provide an actual quite zone where the sounds of the city vanish and people are able to reflect on the tragic nature of the crime.

Revitalization doesn't mean the tributes to death have to be boxed up, shipped to a neutral part of town and put out of sight. The county has a unique opportunity to provide a fitting memorial. Accept that a president was murdered near that spot and stop trying to divert attention. I'm appalled that moving the memorial would be considered at all! The county sould approach Mr. Johnson to expand his design.

[bloodandpopcorn]

I really like that idea. And expanding his design could include fountains, beautful green space - only, it would all be connected to the memorial and, while being asthetically pleasing, be a great place for reflection. Sadly, I think Dallas is in too much of a hurry in that area to even stop and consider that idea. Despite how I'd love the city to awake tomorrow as a bustly urban place, if we really want it to be great, we have to take some time with it. You should send that idea to the city council, though, and see if they could at least discuss the prospect.

[gc]

Bryan cabin is feeling unsettled as officials vote to move landmark
09:07 PM CDT on Tuesday, June 29, 2004
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/dallas/stories/063004dnmetcabin.94e50.html

The cliche says history is not stagnant. But neither does it stay put.

Dallas County commissioners voted Tuesday to relocate the John Neely Bryan cabin, the log-laced landmark on Founders Plaza downtown. The monument, a replica of a cabin built by Dallas' founding lawyer, has had many addresses, and it will hit the road again. "We don't want it to be a trailer home for too long," wisecracked Commissioner John Wiley Price. Dallas County is moving the cabin in preparation to excavate Founders Plaza. The county plans to install an underground parking garage there. The relocation effort will cost $17,700.

Over the next two months, county officials will pick a location where they will temporarily store the cabin, which approximates the domicile that Mr. Bryan built on the bank of the Trinity River near downtown's West End. The cabin won't return to its current home. Plans for Founders Plaza include the type of urban design – fountains, landscaping, pedestrian walkways – that doesn't include log cabins.

Mr. Price said he is partial to moving the cabin to Old City Park, the historical village south of downtown that includes originals and replicas of old farmsteads, saloons and hotels. The Dallas Park Department, which owns Old City Park, would have to invite the cabin to join the park. Willis Winters, an assistant director for the Park Department, agreed that Old City Park would be a good home for the Bryan cabin. "I don't have a problem with moving it again," said Mr. Winters, an architect and architectural historian, "as long as maybe this is the final move."

[rantanamo]

Interesting. What were some of the other homes of it before its current location?

[drumguy8800]

YAYAYAYA ITS ACTUALLY HAPPENING... finally finally finally somethings actually happening and it's not just a proposal. yay. no more log cabin. YAY. ITS GONNA BE GONE. AND THOSE STUPID LIGHTS ARE GONNA BE GONE! how great.

[freewaytincan]

YAYAYAYA ITS ACTUALLY HAPPENING... finally finally finally somethings actually happening and it's not just a proposal. yay. no more log cabin. YAY. ITS GONNA BE GONE. AND THOSE STUPID LIGHTS ARE GONNA BE GONE! how great.

Now if they can move the JFK "memorial". If that's how my memorial looked, I'd come back from the dead and destroy it.

[drumguy8800]

we had a huge thread on just that topic one time..

[Lakewooder]

I don't like the idea of moving the cabin (whether it's the real Bryan house or not) to Old City Park. I like it being where it was originally, near the Trinity, and the contrast between the cabin and the huge skyscrapers which resulted from Bryan's settlement.

[gc]

Descendants of Dallas' founder turning up the cabin pressure
They don't want county to remove replica of house from downtown
08:42 PM CDT on Sunday, July 11, 2004
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/071204dnmetbryanire.97d47.html

To many visitors, the log cabin in downtown Dallas is a quaint souvenir of the city's frontier past. Few people learn much about John Neely Bryan, the pioneer whose use of the cabin is vigorously disputed but whose title as Dallas' founder is as solid as the cedar logs that sit on Founders Plaza. But some of Mr. Bryan's descendants are worried his legacy is fading away and that recent decisions by Dallas County are more quickly rubbing it out. In March, county commissioners resolved to move the Bryan cabin off Founders Plaza. Two weeks ago, some officials expressed a preference for Old City Park, a historical village south of downtown that charges admission.

"They are going to move the last little tidbit away from people who can see his name," said Dale Cox, a 75-year-old Grapevine resident who is a great-great-grandson of Mr. Bryan. "That is really irritating me. At one time, I thought seriously about bringing suit." Since Dallas County officials announced their intention to move the cabin in March, many Bryan descendants have aired their feelings – rage, bemusement and disappointment – in e-mails, Internet message board postings and phone calls.

Spread over Texas, Missouri, Illinois and elsewhere, the Bryan descendants are a far-flung lot. Their diffusion mirrors the circuit of their famous ancestor, who packed in much during his 67 years: a law practice in Memphis, success as a trader with Indian tribes in Arkansas and Texas, the establishment of Dallas, and a feckless search for gold in California and Colorado. "The problem is getting most of our descendants to agree to anything," said Mr. Cox, who wants the cabin placed across the street, next to the Old Red Courthouse. "A lot of them are not in Dallas. But everybody is sending e-mails. Everybody knows about it."

Some Bryan descendants said they feel left out of the decision-making process. Despite their deed to the city's history, the Bryans are not a prominent Dallas family like the Stemmons or Thorntons, clans that produced mayors or business leaders who ran the city.

Historic figure

Still, Mr. Bryan's importance to the city's history is irrefutable, historians say. While he did not build much, he was a "promoter and dreamer" who attracted people to the town he established when Texas was still a republic, historian Michael V. Hazel said. In the early 1840s, Mr. Bryan owned much of the land on downtown's west end. To ensure Dallas' position as county seat, he donated the land where the Old Red Courthouse was built. Some family members have acquired county records that show Mr. Bryan also donated 94 lots to the county to encourage others to settle in town.

"I think it's very important to have that cabin near the pieces of property owned by Bryan," said Karen Gassett, an Addison resident who is a great-great-great- niece of Mr. Bryan. The cabin is perhaps the last symbol of Mr. Bryan's life. His gravesite was lost; at the end of his life, he was committed to an asylum in Austin, where he died. Still, other relatives said they would not oppose moving the cabin to Old City Park if it became a permanent home. Over the years, the cabin has been moved from East Dallas to Fair Park and back downtown.

"I would rather see it placed permanently than having it where it is going to be in limbo for years," said M.C. Toyer, a Pilot Point resident who traces his roots to John Beeman, a Dallas pioneer who was Mr. Bryan's father-in-law. "Nobody cares as much as the family," said Mr. Toyer, who has studied early Dallas history. "To everybody else, the cabin is a passing interest. They couldn't care whether or not it was ever John Bryan's cabin."

Authenticity questioned

The county has renounced the idea that Mr. Bryan actually constructed the cabin, siding with a Dallas historian's argument that it was built by Gideon Pemberton, an expert woodcraftsman. That historian, the late Barrot Sanders, published a book about the cabin but left behind almost no original sources to explain his research. But some family members, such as Mr. Toyer, say it contains logs that were used by Mr. Bryan. "I can paint just as believable a portrait of it as authentic as Barrot did saying it's not," Mr. Toyer said. "Now, you can't prove either one."

Presuming Mr. Bryan didn't build it, county officials see little harm in moving a cabin that has been advertised as a stand-in for the founder's home. Nor do they believe it will fit with future plans for the plaza. After the county excavates Founders Plaza to install an underground parking garage, the plaza will get a makeover that includes fountains, landscaping and stone benches. It could be placed next to Old Red, where it once stood. But county officials worry future changes to another nearby parking garage might require it be moved again. Yet even historians who doubt the cabin's links to Mr. Bryan are uncomfortable with removing it from downtown.

"Frankly, I do think it should be put in a place where it serves as an icon, and I am not sure in Old City Park it would serve that way," said James Pratt, a Dallas architect whose 1982 analysis concluded only nine logs are old enough to date back to Mr. Bryan's time. Darwin Payne, who has written extensively about Dallas history, also expressed reservations about the relocation. "I like the idea of leaving it around Dealey Plaza," Mr. Payne said. "I think we need interesting things in this area where we get more tourists than anywhere else."

On any given day, dozens of tourists stroll by the cabin and read the historical marker that says the cabin is symbolic of the county's "log cabin pioneers." Margo Shenbaga, a New Jersey resident who visited the cabin recently , said Dallas County should keep it downtown. "It's great having it here among the modern buildings and seeing the contrast," said Ms. Shenbaga, 28. "It's the perfect spot."

[rantanamo]

If they have to move it, move it. Agree that it needs a more. high profile spot than Old City Park.

[bloodandpopcorn]

There are so many parking lots downtown, just take one of them, fill it with trees and stone paths, and put the cabin in the middle. Create a great new public space, take away an eye-sore, and appease everyone.

[tamtagon]

It seems to me that Founders Plaza is the most appropriate spot for a log cabin marking the home of the guy who started the city. If they move the cabin, Founders Plaza should be renamed.

[drumguy8800]

It seems to me that Founders Plaza is the most appropriate spot for a log cabin marking the home of the guy who started the city. If they move the cabin, Founders Plaza should be renamed.

Yeah, just like in NYC- all those little fake Dutch cabins taking up space along 5th Avenue.. boy do I love cabins! mm! especially fake, tiny ones!

[gc]

County asks panel to review decision to move Bryan cabin
08:58 PM CDT on Wednesday, August 4, 2004
By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/080504dnmetbryan.c4ea.html

Dallas County has asked its historical commission to review an earlier decision to remove the John Neely Bryan cabin from downtown, citing concerns from descendants of Dallas' founder that he be properly recognized. Dallas County once promoted the cabin on Founders Plaza as the original home of Mr. Bryan, a lawyer and pioneer who organized the county in 1846. Dallas County officials renounced that position in the 1980s after local historians argued that the cabin was built by another early Dallas resident, Gideon Pemberton. Many of Mr. Bryan's descendants insist the cabin should remain in a prominent downtown location. They say it is the lone artifact that reminds visitors of Mr. Bryan, who donated the land where the Old Red Courthouse was built.

"My family would be tickled to death that they will take a look at it," said Dale Cox, a Grapevine resident and great-great-grandson of Mr. Bryan. "Surely we will be able to keep the cabin downtown somewhere where it is visible." County Judge Margaret Keliher, who requested the review, wants the historical commission to suggest a future location for the cabin. She also wants the commission to advise county commissioners about whether Mr. Bryan's contributions have been sufficiently recognized.

Mr. Cox and some other family members oppose an idea to move the cabin to Old City Park, a historical village south of downtown that charges admission. The historical commission will have a public hearing about the cabin's future Aug. 12.

[drumguy8800]

oh, shut up.. *s;lkgjl....*

[Foucault]

Park logs its cabin view: No thanks

09:15 PM CDT on Monday, August 9, 2004


By JACQUIELYNN FLOYD / The Dallas Morning News



Let us give credit where it's due to Dallas County Judge Margaret Keliher, who has asked the county's historical commission to put some serious thought into where the peripatetic John Neely Bryan cabin should come to rest.

And should they decide to move it to a new home, they might want to call ahead first. Turns out that the people who run Old City Park, where commissioners have blithely suggested the cabin be hauled, don't want it.

Gary Smith, the president and executive director at Old City Park, mildly pointed out that in all the debate over whether the cabin should be moved to the historical village, nobody has yet thought to ask whether they want it or not.

As a matter of fact, they're full up with all the log cabins they need.

"Interesting in all of this speculation about the Bryan Cabin is the fact that no one has yet thought to call us to ask our opinion about the matter," he wrote. "It so happens that we believe the cabin is better off staying where it now is."

The rustic little cabin in downtown Dallas was not, historians now say, actually the home of our city's founder. But it was thought to be for so long that it is inextricably linked in the public mind with Bryan, whose remarkable life as a frontiersman, developer, gold miner, linguist and ambassador to a half-dozen Indian tribes would comprise a pretty riveting biography.

So Bryan's numerous but widely scattered descendants have been justifiably distraught at the county's sometimes-cavalier eagerness to get the old cabin out of the way of its new building plans.

Like the descendants, I felt a little huffy myself about the county's bland proposal that the cabin be hauled away to Old City Park south of downtown and miles from Bryan's original homestead.

Honest, I meant to be helpful, but as is so often the case, I managed to stick my foot in an ant bed. In going to bat for the cabin, a few writers told me, I was most unhelpfully disrespectful toward the park.

"Please, do us all a favor and stop talking about museums," said one exasperated writer, who is still put out with me over a less-than-glowing review of the Women's Museum. "It is obvious you don't appreciate them!"

Ouch! You don't know how that stings, since I really like museums quite a lot. I love the Kimbell and the Amon Carter, the planetarium at the Science and History Museum in Fort Worth and every single building and mural and water fountain at Fair Park. I love the Georgia O'Keeffe in New Mexico and the Tate in London and the Sun Records Studio in Memphis, where I reverently touched the very microphone stand that Elvis once grasped.

I have dragged my long-suffering husband through countless galleries and made him look at paintings and old documents and Thomas Jefferson's writing desk and Faberge eggs and manuscripts and Native American artifacts. I have driven 200 miles out of my way to tour an old farmhouse where Gustav Stickley once lived, and I stood in line in the snow to see a home designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.

So that arrow really hit home. Call me a bonehead, I thought bitterly, but don't call me an uncultured bonehead.

Mr. Smith was probably a little put out with me, too, but he was much more tactful about it. He very kindly invited me to come over and tour the park, which I had hastily described as "quaint" and "off the beaten path."

Lemme see, I thought, I know all about Old City Park – I've been there.

Further reflection revealed that I last visited for the wedding of friends whose oldest child is now in high school. It had been awhile.

So I took Mr. Smith up on his offer of a morning tour last week and was entirely charmed.

Hidden in a shady bend just south of downtown, the park is a live-action village where historic houses are occupied by knowledgeable characters who re-enact scenes of everyday life from Dallas' past.

Right now, the park draws about 80,000 visitors a year – nearly half of them are schoolchildren on field trips – but it could handle far more.

"We're not well-known enough to fill up to capacity," Mr. Smith sighed. "We really want to reach more people."

They're hampered, he said, by being stranded on the "wrong" side of Interstate 30 and not being visible from the freeway.

But it's worth finding. It's an emerald jewel of wide lawns and winding paths shaded by oak trees. In all, there are 35 buildings that date from 1840 to 1910 that have all been collected from around North Texas: a pillared antebellum mansion, a farmstead, a working blacksmith shop, a turn-of-the-century merchant's home.

Visitors are welcomed by impressively authentic characters: a Jewish housewife cooking kugel over a wood stove, a frontier farm wife fixing biscuits on an open hearth.

Museum-field jargon for the technique is "living history," and the park is planning to add more characters to offer more live-action scenes of everyday life.

But they have no plans to add John Neely Bryan, whose outsized legacy, I realized, really doesn't fit with the scenes-from-daily life that Old City Park depicts.

The park invites visitors to experience the buildings they might have seen and the people they might have met in a different era – to imagine the lives we might have lived a hundred or so years ago.

The Bryan cabin invites visitors to reflect on the eccentric, endlessly fascinating man who founded our city.

Both are compelling pieces of history, but they're pieces of a different kind.

I'm certain we have room for both.

[gc]

I guess nobody cares about the cabin, huh?

[hamiltonpl]

I'm all into history, but I don't like the current location of the cabin. Old City Park would make sense. Also Pioneer Plaza would make sense.

It's out of place in its current location.

[bloodandpopcorn]

I don't like the cabin. It's not Bryan's, so I'd much rather see a pretty statue of Bryan in some park with writing about him than this decrepit cabin that wasn't his to begin with.

If it must be kept, I hope they can move it. A new park there with lots of trees and fountains would be great. I guess the cabin could stay, but I think a statue would be much nicer.

[drycreek]

It's not Bryan's, so I'd much rather see a pretty statue of Bryan in some park with writing about him than this decrepit cabin that wasn't his to begin with.

Yeah, that's a great idea. If the cabin's not even his, then what's the big deal here? I think a statue like bp suggests would be a lot cooler.

[dallastophoenix]

Also Pioneer Plaza would make sense.

It's out of place in its current location.


very good call!!

[Mballar]

My vote is move it to Old City Park until the Trinity River Project is completed. Then find a location for it down there.

[aceplace]

My vote... keep it somewhere in Dealey Plaza.

It's one of the few things that interest tourists, in an area where there is a high visitor count. Not having it there means one thing less to entertain our visitors. They never heard of Bryan and could not care less as to whose cabin it is.

Putting it into Old City Park is, no offense to anyone, burying it in oblivion.

[texman]

My vote... keep it somewhere in Dealey Plaza.

It's one of the few things that interest tourists, in an area where there is a high visitor count. Not having it there means one thing less to entertain our visitors. They never heard of Bryan and could not care less as to whose cabin it is.

Putting it into Old City Park is, no offense to anyone, burying it in oblivion.


Very true, anyone heard of the watertower in chicago? Its there oldest building and it right smack in the middle of things so theres lots of tourists. Same should be done with the cabin.

[crescentboi]

Very true, anyone heard of the watertower in chicago? Its there oldest building and it right smack in the middle of things so theres lots of tourists. Same should be done with the cabin.

i think that anyone who has been to chicago has been to or heard of the watertower. the difference between the watertower and the cabin, is that the water tower actually looks good! that's a landmark that you're not going to see in another city. there's a lot of other log cabins through out the country in the midwest or northeast that have been saved or rebuilt, i agree that since this is not bryan's it's not anything special. now i think if they made it possible to view inside and there was a display as to what life was like in those times it may be a bit more interesting. i feel that a statue would be the best thing as a monument or even a obleske (spelling?) with his bust or full statue on top or something...that would be better imo.

[drumguy8800]

Cabin == gone. 03.18.05. Click for larger.

<a href='http://xvisionx.no-ip.info/picture.html?ref=simple&name=jnb/jnb'><img src='http://xvisionx.no-ip.info/docs/jnb/jnbs.jpg' style='border:1px solid #000000'></a>

[aceplace]

i think that anyone who has been to chicago has been to or heard of the watertower. the difference between the watertower and the cabin, is that the water tower actually looks good! that's a landmark that you're not going to see in another city. there's a lot of other log cabins through out the country in the midwest or northeast that have been saved or rebuilt, i agree that since this is not bryan's it's not anything special. now i think if they made it possible to view inside and there was a display as to what life was like in those times it may be a bit more interesting. i feel that a statue would be the best thing as a monument or even a obleske (spelling?) with his bust or full statue on top or something...that would be better imo.Well, if other cities all have a log cabin in a downtown square, then Dallas should also.

In reality, log cabins downtown are not that common. None in New York, Phoenix, or in San Francisc, Portland, Los Angeles, Wichita, Atlanta, Baltimore, Washington DC, etc, etc. I don't know about Minneapolis or Omaha...

What about putting it in old City Park? First of all, the OCP has very little foot traffic compared to Dealey Plaza, and also, the marginal improvement to OCP would be overshadowed by the noticeable loss to Dealey Plaza.

PLus... the log cabin definitely adds to the public interest in the square. People walk over and look at it. Removing it is a loss of an interesting artifact. I'll agree that they could vastly improve the appeal of the cabin by giving it an interior.

[tamtagon]

What about putting it in old City Park?

Dallas thrives on the ability to deliver a variety neighborhood environments based on imported historical ambiance. That's the way new cities grow and it's great. However, I think we should preserve every instance and occurance of real history the area has left. While that cabin might not exactly where the city's founder lived and might not have even belonged to the city's founder, it's close enough and should say right where it is. You're right that the cabin should have an inside.

The same goes for the JFK Memorial. It's supposed to be somber and should not be a place for the downtown residents and visitors to hangout and have a picnic. Downtown will just have to grow around them. Like, there's plenty of room for recreational pocket parks by Reunion.

[rantanamo]

Didn't they move that cabin to the river?

[tamtagon]

Didn't they move that cabin to the river?

They probably threw that cabin in the river.

[rantanamo]

seriously, I thought I read that at the DMN site that they were moving it to a site near Lew Steritt.

[boozo]

I had to go to the property tax office the other day and I found this awesome rendering in the hallway for the plaza.

Check out all the water features!!

[Tnekster]

I had to go to the property tax office the other day and I found this awesome rendering in the hallway for the plaza.

Check out all the water features!!

I saw this over the weekend and noticed all the work they are doing on the actual site. It will be great when they get it done. And will hopefully spark additional development around the new park.

[boozo]

Check out how the road goes through the fountains. Very interesting.

[Tnekster]

Yes, that is interesting. What road would that be? Is it Main?

[boozo]

Think so. What a grand gateway to downtown.

[barrycb]

I had to go to the property tax office the other day and I found this awesome rendering in the hallway for the plaza.

Check out all the water features!!

The JFK memorial would have to be moved, or demolished for this rendering to happen. Not likely.

[msutton]

that's fantastic!

[drumguy8800]

The JFK memorial would have to be moved, or demolished for this rendering to happen. Not likely.I believe the moving of the JFK memorial has already been decided upon.

And that's crazy that Main is going to have water features for its centerline. Currently, it's two lanes each direction with a left-turn-lane at Market St. Though the rendering doesn't appear to show Main nearing that intersection and requiring a left-turn lane (Record is one way NB), it does show that, apparently, Main will be cut down to one EB and one WB lane. Hmm. Problematic? Maybe not, but Main will probably widen back to two lanes for the Lamar and Griffin intersections (plus auxiliary turn lanes) and then shrink back to one past Griffin. Bottleneck..?

[Tnekster]

The JFK memorial would have to be moved, or demolished for this rendering to happen. Not likely.

Looks like it is progressing quickly. At least the part I saw last week seemed full steam ahead.

[carousel]

What is the fate of the JFK memorial? I heard that it may be moved near the JFK museum.

[D_in_DownTown_D]

OOhs and Ahhs! Pretty rendering! Let's hope they stick to it!

[BigD5349]

I was under the impression that the rendering you've posted is NOT happening. While the controversy about the not-really-Bryan's cabin could have been blown off, people became ultra-concerned that Dallas would be viewed as tremendously insensitive if it moved the JFK memorial.

At one time, I remember reading that part of the parking lot at the old Book Depository would be greened up and maybe there was an idea of moving the memorial there.

The memorial would make more sense near Dealy Plaza. I wish they would mount a powerful statue of JFK on the pedestal inside the memorial to recall the man's remarkable presence. That would be a powerful addition to the area, while also freeing up the County Plaza as more of a fun place where kids would run around amidst the water fountains.

There was a concern that Main Street significantly reduces the ultimate potential of the overall park. I guess putting the water features down the middle of Main was supposed to connect the two sides together, but I agree that that this seems a little odd. The first time a car smashes into it, we'll wonder what we were thinking.

What I wonder is that since they are building the underground parking garage on one side, why didn't they just close off Main St. for a few months, excavate out a little further so that Main could pass under the park? It probably would have been too expensive, but it would have been nice to eliminate the partition in the park.

When I see them taking roads underground like Spring Valley at Central Exwy, it makes me wonder why not do this if the funding could be secured from road or county funds? Since they were digging for the garage anyway, it could've defrayed some of the excavation costs....

ANYWAY, does anyone know what the real plans are now? Is the rendering back on, or has it been abandoned?