DTD | Near East Dallas: Icon at Ross (Ross & Hall)

[Kelley USA]

Didn't see this posted anywhere.....

Downtown Dallas property to be demolished for new project

12:00 AM CST on Monday, January 28, 2008
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com

An Irving-based apartment builder is redeveloping properties on downtown Dallas' near east side.

JLB Partners – which builds and acquires apartments with operations in about a dozen states – is preparing to demolish a block of old commercial buildings at Ross Avenue and Hall Street to make way for a new project.

The builder acquired the property in late 2007.

Officials with JLB Partners could not be reached Friday for details about their project.

But demolition crews are preparing to begin work on the collection of old buildings along Ross, Hall and Flora Street.

Tax records show the property is owned by a partnership set up by JLB.

Real estate broker Candace Rubin, who helped arrange the assembly of the property from several owners, said the development will include new apartments and retail space.

The neighborhood is already seeing renewal.

Townhouse developers are putting up two housing communities just across the street from JLB's property.

And a few blocks to the west at Ross and Routh Street, another apartment builder, JPI, is planning to build a large rental housing community.

A couple of townhouse developers, including CityHomes, looked at building on the Ross and Hall tract before JLB went forward with its purchase.

[Kelley USA]

Actually I did find it listed in City Issues... But I think this is a better place for it- under "Urban Development"...

[noelamador]

^ yep, it's posted in the "Steve Brown Report" thread since there is not much info about it yet.

[Kelley USA]

Perhaps someone can post a map of the area we might be looking at- or even give an idea of what buildings might be demolished here... The article was a bit vague!

[tamtagon]

I know the article says downtown Dallas, but to me, that address in East Dallas. whatev....

What's the maximum height allowed along Ross through East Dallas? It's probably not high enough. Ross and Live Oak need to be zoned to become the tall building fingers extending from the CBD; streets in between are good for low/mid rises.

[dfwcre8tive]

Perhaps someone can post a map of the area we might be looking at- or even give an idea of what buildings might be demolished here... The article was a bit vague!


here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ross+%26+hall,+dallas,+tx&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=53.829089,93.076172&ie=UTF8&ll=32.796023,-96.789406&spn=0.001763,0.00284&z=19&om=0&layer=c&cbll=32.795702,-96.789429&cbp=1,221.05450449093803,,0,10.36987422257243

[Tnekster]

^Thanks for the map, I have wanted to see this corner go for a long time but agree with Tam that height would be good along this Ross cooridor.

[Kelley USA]

I agree Tam, I don't see that as being in DT at all... This would complement City Lights...

[DallasMan]

^Agreed on both points: 1) this is not "downtown" and 2) higher buildings along Ross would look good.

[Tnekster]

I would still like to see Ross become a cooridor of mid to high rise residential development extending away from downtown. Ross has so much potential compared to what it is today.

[urbanite07]

I would still like to see Ross become a cooridor of mid to high rise residential development extending away from downtown. Ross has so much potential compared to what it is today.

I heard that several car dealerships are applying to have their licenses removed from the moritarium which, according to Angela Hunt, car dealerships wont have their leases renewed..

If they get the 'stay', then Ross ave. will continue to look like crap...

[cowboyeagle05]

1) this is not "downtown"

Thie question lies with the defined terminology. I would consider this property part of Downtown. THis arguement has been had though in another thread. The Central Business District is the highway Loop and Downtown includes; Deep Ellum, CBD, Southside, Cedars, State Thomas, Victory, and Uptown. While this may be contradictory to consider Uptown within Downtown but it seems logical past the branding culture that created Uptown, for me anyways.

Whats great about this project is it puts more residents near the Arts District even though they will have to cross under the highway to get there. More residents in close proximity will help build the theme of a more active district rather than an one evening special events space. More of these kinds of developments are needed all over as far as infill goes.

[hamiltonpl]

Across the street on Ross are some new townhomes popping up.

The place they're knocking down used to house a biker-bar and other associated riff-raff. I saw some men out there today with blueprints. It already has construction/demolition fence around it.

A block away on Hall is a police substation in a 1970's era mobile home trailer. It's about a block or two south of the projects. This area is in dire need of help.

[Lakewooder]

As I have said before if you look down Ross from Lower Greenville the elevation is similar to the Arc de Triomphe at the top of the Champs leading down to the Tulieries and Lourve. OK, we won't have that but we could get some ideas there...like wide sidewalks and an allee of trees..

[hamiltonpl]

As I have said before if you look down Ross from Lower Greenville the elevation is similar to the Arc de Triomphe at the top of the Champs leading down to the Tulieries and Lourve. OK, we won't have that but we could get some ideas there...like wide sidewalks and an allee of trees..
Umm... Yeah. The elevation is all we need. All we're missing is the lousy Louvre and Arc de Triumphe!

Lakewooder, I put you in charge of getting those back to Dallas.

[jsoto3]

What's the maximum height allowed along Ross through East Dallas? It's probably not high enough. Ross and Live Oak need to be zoned to become the tall building fingers extending from the CBD; streets in between are good for low/mid rises.
It varies, but this particular site is in PD298 Subarea 1, having a height limit of 120 feet.


Whats great about this project is it puts more residents near the Arts District even though they will have to cross under the highway to get there.
I don't get why TxDot doesn't tear down the Central Expressway bridge over Ross, as they are currently doing just south at the Bryan/Hawkins junction. It's weird, but the pedestrian experience crossing the highway at Live Oak is already better because with the bridge gone it feels much more open. The reconstruction plans I have seen suggest that they will be putting in a lot of landscaping between the I-45 viaducts, which will help improve the pedestrian experience significantly. This should be done at the Ross crossing as well.

[aceplace]

Thie question lies with the defined terminology. I would consider this property part of Downtown. THis arguement has been had though in another thread. The Central Business District is the highway Loop and Downtown includes; Deep Ellum, CBD, Southside, Cedars, State Thomas, Victory, and Uptown. While this may be contradictory to consider Uptown within Downtown but it seems logical past the branding culture that created Uptown, for me anyways. Its building types and land usage definitely fits any national definition of "downtown". It certainly is not the suburbs.

Assuming that, however, it is definitely not part of a "central business district", and the two terms are not synonomous. In fact, Main and Akard is not part of a CBD, it is a residential district. If it was genuinely part of a CBD, it would be economically difficult to convert its office space into condos. If you do want business, or office space, most of it is between Elm and Ross.

If you want a term for the land within the loop, say "Within the Loop". Then we'll all know what you mean.

I am a stickler on terminology because it is important. Important for communication, and important for developing an accurate and valid view of our city, and its value relative to other cities.

[aceplace]

As I have said before if you look down Ross from Lower Greenville the elevation is similar to the Arc de Triomphe at the top of the Champs leading down to the Tulieries and Lourve. OK, we won't have that but we could get some ideas there...like wide sidewalks and an allee of trees..If we put a traffic circle with a monument in it at the intersection of Ross and Greenville, we would be defining such a grand boulevard. We would also be defining a neighborhood boundary that builders would respect and treat as a cohesive neighborhood.

It would look and function very much like DuPont Circle in DC, which works to define an exciting and lively neighborhood.

Even better, we would be defining a pathway to Lower Greenville. As it is now, the blight on Ross puts up a mental barrier to anything beyond it. Remove that barrier by redefining the neighborhood and we will have a vastly improved inner city area.

Ultimately, we could have a streetcar line along Ross from the West End to Lower Greenville. Since DART would build it, presumably, TXU Electric would be forced to accommodate any underground utilities.

Somebody needs to do for Dallas what Napoleon III and Baron Hausmann did for Beaux Arts Paris.

[Lionel Hutz]

Is this where the Dallasite bar is? Pretty sure it's at the corner of Ross and Hall. Any time I go to Uptown from Lakewood, I take Ross to Hall and cross over Central. Will be nice to have that area cleaned up.

[urbanite07]

Is this where the Dallasite bar is? Pretty sure it's at the corner of Ross and Hall. Any time I go to Uptown from Lakewood, I take Ross to Hall and cross over Central. Will be nice to have that area cleaned up.

YEP - That's the block that's going bye-bye

[xen0blue]

man, that's not downtown, i was hoping it be around the parking lots at ross, leonard and routh

[cowboyeagle05]

man, that's not downtown, i was hoping it be around the parking lots at ross, leonard and routh

This discussion has already been had and Downtown includes more than whats "Within the Loop" this project is definitely Downtown.

[Kelley USA]

This discussion has already been had and Downtown includes more than whats "Within the Loop" this project is definitely Downtown.

I don't care how you define it or how the city defines it- but 99% of people living in Dallas would not consider this DT. You can call it what you want. I live in Uptown and I don't consider that DT, nor would I consider this DT. Let's be realistic, you'll never be able to persuade the majority that this is DT.... Most people consider DT inside the loop- including me...

[DallasMan]

^um, sorry I don't mean to derail this thread into a discussion of what is "downtown," but who died and made you the final decision that "this discussion has already been had" and that this is "definitely" downtown????

I think the discussion is somewhat relevant to this news - does the City consider these developments along Ross and in Bryan Place to count towards the goal of 10,000 units "downtown?" No, they do not. I do not consider this downtown.

[aceplace]

I don't care how you define it or how the city defines it- but 99% of people living in Dallas would not consider this DT. You can call it what you want. I live in Uptown and I don't consider that DT, nor would I consider this DT. Let's be realistic, you'll never be able to persuade the majority that this is DT.... Most people consider DT inside the loop- including me... Many Americans would consider the highrises on Lower McKinney and the buildings on Harwood Dallas as part of downtown Dallas, simply because they are extensions of the highrise neighborhoods on the other side of Woodall Rogers. Network television commentators describe Victory Park and the AAC as being in downtown Dallas.

Perhaps many Dallasites do not understand the perspectives of the rest of America. I don't think a visitor from Omaha or Minneapolis would say..." yes, those buildings over there don't look like a "downtown", they look like an "Uptown". Somebody from Houston would say, no, that's not an Uptown, Houston has a REAL Uptown, and that ain't it.

But does the corner of Ross and Hall recognizable to most Americans as part of a downtown... well OK, maybe not at this time... we'll see what the future will make of it.

[aceplace]

^um, sorry I don't mean to derail this thread into a discussion of what is "downtown," but who died and made you the final decision that "this discussion has already been had" and that this is "definitely" downtown????

I think the discussion is somewhat relevant to this news - does the City consider these developments along Ross and in Bryan Place to count towards the goal of 10,000 units "downtown?" No, they do not. I do not consider this downtown.The residential units just east of Central, including the new ones on Ross and Hall, will be pretty accessible to downtown-within-the-loop. They are much closer than the residential units around the Farmer's Market, which the City of Dallas probably does count toward the 10,000 goal.

This is the point... that the Ross Avenue units will add some of the rooftops that within-the-loop needs... for all practical purposes, they add to the vitality of the area, and should not be dismissed.

[4th Generation]

Is this where the Dallasite bar is? Pretty sure it's at the corner of Ross and Hall. Any time I go to Uptown from Lakewood, I take Ross to Hall and cross over Central. Will be nice to have that area cleaned up.

Yep, that's the location. The Dallasite moved over to Bryan & Fitzhugh.

[mdg109]

I didn't know about this development, but it's very exciting. I personally don't consider this area to be downtown either, but this will definitely help the arts district portion of downtown. At this point, any solid and well-designed development is good. I don't care about height anymore since we already have a nice skyline. What matters now is the density. What good is the skyline if there's nothing in and around it to enjoy? Anyway, if this small area around Ross develops, it will not only create a gateway to the downtown arts district, it could also connect the run down Hall street with uptown. If this happens, then it's what we all have been wanting for Dallas since the beginning of this forum. Good, solid development spreading and connecting downtown with smaller urban areas to make a large metropolitan, central, urban city.

[FoUTASportscaster]

I don't get why TxDot doesn't tear down the Central Expressway bridge over Ross, as they are currently doing just south at the Bryan/Hawkins junction. It's weird, but the pedestrian experience crossing the highway at Live Oak is already better because with the bridge gone it feels much more open. The reconstruction plans I have seen suggest that they will be putting in a lot of landscaping between the I-45 viaducts, which will help improve the pedestrian experience significantly. This should be done at the Ross crossing as well.

TxDoH is not concerned about many other transportation options outside of the automobile.

[SDORN]

Here you go!!! Taken Today

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8213/dallasite1ev0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SDORN]

My buddy who was with my took several of The pix with my camera,
He had the itch to shoot but had no cam. Side wall of the Dallasite club strip

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3095/sidewall1sc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SDORN]

Here one last shot before bed time

Did someone say new development. This is being built on the ground of the old Fishburn that was torn down back in 1999.
I miss the old building but the new development is cleaning up a blighted area of town.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7892/newdevonrossfl9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[mdg109]

Thanks, Sdorn. I love that last project b/c it's facing the street.

[vman]

I drove past this yesterday and was suprised to see the block is already fenced off and a demolition trailer is already on site!!!

[aceplace]

I didn't know about this development, but it's very exciting. I personally don't consider this area to be downtown either, but this will definitely help the arts district portion of downtown. At this point, any solid and well-designed development is good. I don't care about height anymore since we already have a nice skyline. What matters now is the density. What good is the skyline if there's nothing in and around it to enjoy? Anyway, if this small area around Ross develops, it will not only create a gateway to the downtown arts district, it could also connect the run down Hall street with uptown. If this happens, then it's what we all have been wanting for Dallas since the beginning of this forum. Good, solid development spreading and connecting downtown with smaller urban areas to make a large metropolitan, central, urban city.The large, central, metropolitan urban city, as it develops, will blur the concept of a "downtown" as a recognizable place. For example, where is downtown Washington DC? In fact, DC's urban center is so large and so dense that designating a portion of it as a "downtown" is not relevant.

Smaller cities that are mostly of suburban density with a business center of sorts in the center do have a recognizable downtown, mostly because it is small, and the only pedestrian oriented area in town. It is discernable by contrast with the surrounding blob of low-rent commercial structures.

But when you consider a city with a large urban core, such as San Francisco, defining a "downtown" becomes more problematic. Where is SF's downtown, and where does it end? SF does have defined districts, such as an office district along Montgomery street, and a hotel district along Geary, a shopping district along Stockton, etc, but there is no clear and obvious boundary for a downtown, at least none that everyone can agree on.

Dallas will develop in the same way. Dense neighborhoods that other cities would include in their concept of a downtown will continue to arise north and east of the freeway loop, while the southern portion of land inside the loop will continue to hold vacant lots and tumbledown buildings. As Dallas has expanded from a city of about 1 million in the 1950's to a metro of 6 million people in the 2000s, its downtown has also expanded, certainly to the land north of Woodall Rogers. Perhaps expansion of residentioal to the east is a precursor to office and commercial expansion to the east?

[SDORN]

Aceplace, I think you right, but I hope not. Ross Ave needs a huge boost many of it structures are in need o new of replacing. There aren't really many building along ross anymore that are not historic enough to really keep.
I think newer buildings will revitilze the area. Gaston has improved greatly over the last ten years. and it keeps improving.

Anyway I will be out with my camera shooting as progress happens hopefuly I can get the tear down of this one

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5781/elnavegantecn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[KittyPie]

Has the old Fishburn place been gone that long? Is this farther east than the Blue Marlin---are they still open even? Haven't been there in a few years......... Do anyone on here know who would be the developer on upcoming projects in that area?

:jester:

[noelamador]

I'm glad this blighted area is now taking off. hopefully this project will be high quality. most of the new townhomes in the vicinty and south of Ross are atrocious. the architecture (or lack thereof) is as bad as most new homes in Allen.

[aceplace]

I'm glad this blighted area is now taking off. hopefully this project will be high quality. most of the new townhomes in the vicinty and south of Ross are atrocious. the architecture (or lack thereof) is as bad as most new homes in Allen.I'll agree with your delight at the repopulation of a blighted area.

As to the quality of the architecture, the vast majority of anything created will be unremarkable... by definition. If we had to wait until every building was an architectural masterpiece, if we disallowed projects that were not up to some esthetic standard mandated by a committee of architectural authorities, our city would never change.

[SDORN]

Kity pie the developer is already building there , lookat the shot of the new condo pix above.

[tamtagon]

12:00 AM CST on Monday, January 28, 2008
By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News
stevebrown@dallasnews.com


Officials with JLB Partners could not be reached Friday for details about their project.

I wonder if JLB has any detalis to offer yet.

[ameripro]

Anyone have an opinion on the zoning application by Woodard Auto Repair at Ross and McCoy to continue their auto related use for the next 20 years. When PD269 was amended in 2005, auto related uses were to end by April of 2010. The stated reason was to facilitate redevelopment along Ross as the eastern gateway into the Arts District and implied that auto repair, etc. was not compatible with quality retail, office and residential which was the preferred redevelopment along Ross.

[SDORN]

How about history!!!! This area is turning over. In five year Ross ave is going to be very different. beside who need crappy ugly car lots anyway? This area is finally getting some much needed redevelopment Thank God.

[jimbone]

Anyone have an opinion on the zoning application by Woodard Auto Repair at Ross and McCoy to continue their auto related use for the next 20 years. When PD269 was amended in 2005, auto related uses were to end by April of 2010. The stated reason was to facilitate redevelopment along Ross as the eastern gateway into the Arts District and implied that auto repair, etc. was not compatible with quality retail, office and residential which was the preferred redevelopment along Ross.
I think there chances are slim does anybody know what their chances are?

[ericthegardener]

beside who need crappy ugly car lots anyway?

Now I'm not arguing in favor of the car lots because I think they are ugly too, but presumably if they're making enough money to stay in business then somebody needs them.

[urbanite07]

Now I'm not arguing in favor of the car lots because I think they are ugly too, but presumably if they're making enough money to stay in business then somebody needs them.

ALL those car lots on Ross are a serious eye sore -they should be shut down. Let's be honest here, as long as those run down lots are there, serious progress won't happen.. Who wants to open a nice restaurant, pub, business next door next to a bunch or oil slicks, cars lifted on jacks, and "WE TOTE THE NOTE" flags flying over head?

I for one really hope they go soon.. and what about the miserable lot on ross & 75? That's located on prime real estate, is this one fighting to say too ?

[GennadyB]

If I’m not mistaken, the development in discussion here the one right behind the “not-so-glamorous” area on Hall. I’m always in shock when I drive through this area how surreal and poor it is. I’d assume most of the properties between Ross and 75 are public housings of sorts? Something needs to happen there soon if Ross and/or City Place is to see any serious improvement. Just my opinion.

[BigD5349]

Today...

In the 1940s and 50s, there used to a jazz/R&B club just off Hall Street called the Rose Room. Tons of famous bands played there...

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6589/rossaveir0.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8166/rossave2cu0.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3415/rossave3lm4.jpg

[SDORN]

All the buildings are gone now except Dallassite Bobby Lindamood Jr Let me walk around and take photos
Thanks Bobby Pix coming in a minute

[SDORN]

I was late for this demo, But i got this anyway.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3760/jrwreckingzx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)